I always found City of Heroes' Prestige system a simple and effective 'guild' setup, which allowed you to play the game and spend your time how you wanted.
When you joined a supergroup there, you could switch to "Supergroup Mode", this would allow you to earn the currency Prestige no matter what content you did in the game, at the expense of regular in-game rewards.
So 'flying the flag' for your fleet in this way means there's a choice over which kind of 'currency' you wish to earn at any one time.
NOTE: I have not read through the whole thread yet and replying to this particular quote...
Amen to that Brother!
While I wouldn't expect to implement that system like how City did, I could envision something along the lines of adding small amounts of Fleet marks as part of the rewards for all non-Foundry content, only if you were in a fleet. That way those who play everything else have a way of contributing to the Fleet's progression.
Typically, all I'm doing now is logging in and cycling my 7 FED Characters through their DOff missions and that's about it. For example, say you added a 1 FMark reward to every successful DOff mission and 3 for a critical success. I could see that if you have ways of getting criticals on all 20 missions, that it 'could' get exploitive, but it could be a interesting addition.
Thank you for the time...
STO CBT Player - 400 day+ Vet, Currently Silver
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
Full, Story-driven, select from start 1-50 Klingon Side
Scrap current Lock Box & Lobi system for something more reasonable
Expand Dil and Rep/Fleet Marks to regular story content
For the good of the game, come up with something that lets newer or smaller fleets the ability to grow, and players still have several characters to try out and play and not feel like a grind, I came to live star trek, not grind.
You have that now; small fleets are perfectly capable of growing. That growth will be much slower than for large fleets, but it's still growth.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
If they don't understand a simple y=mx+b formula and ever took college level mathematics or business classes, they should get their degrees revoked and their tax filings audited. Worst case scenario, all they have to do is walk over to their accounting department and ask an accountant who took cost (managerial) accounting about it (which they better have to earn a degree).
Maybe Cryptic should add an "Administrative" character class and we can figure out how to more efficiently run the game, and set up more realistic progressions.
You have that now; small fleets are perfectly capable of growing. That growth will be much slower than for large fleets, but it's still growth.
Did you even bother to read the thread syberghost? Of course it's growth, but it's grossly disproportionate to that of the larger fleets. It needs to be addressed in a more nuanced way than: don't worry, it's still growth, or you can be patient or you can jump ship and join a larger fleet.
You have that now; small fleets are perfectly capable of growing. That growth will be much slower than for large fleets, but it's still growth.
Who is going to recruit after the "help! my fleet is held hostage" post?
Most large fleets that have Tier 5 look to be not recruiting because of that.
Others have said it already, try to recruit as a small fleet and when the potential recruit finds out you have a low level starbase, they are not interested. Is why I was trying to level up my starbase by myself so I could attract some of the new blood in may. Have to have honey...
Catch 22 and then something.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
So in this massive posting you said "We're not giving this back. Too bad."
Also, this whole thing about "leave your feedback here and we will look over it" was more of a stahl tactic to buy time until you all released something like this, trying to explain why this was done.
Fact is I don't want to wait months while you figure things out. If you make a change this drastic to the game, you need to have something to replace it now...not months from now.
But I have to hand it to you. You got me. You got me good. Got me for plenty of cash. Well played. Don't spend it all in one place.
This post says it all. You've removed one thing without having a valid replacement. Basically you've said that the car has a flat tire and you taken it off without having a spare to put on and roadside assist is a few months away.
This is completely irresponsible to the people who play this game. As irresponsible as trying to fix tricobalts and stuffing up temporal disruption devices. Where is your quality control?
Like olivia211 said, you've gained a fair bit of my money. You've obviously got access to the behind-the-scenes stats so you can check up for yourself. No more. You've stuffed the player base up and now I'm so sick of reading excuses. Now when I try to read your latest justification I see it as
blah blah blah blah too bad, deal with it blah blah blah blah I don't care blah blah blah tell your story walking blah blah blah
Thank you for treating us like TRIBBLE that you'd scrape off your shoe.
Wow... You people have some gall. Or are you deliberately trying to tank your own business? The IOR fleet mark bonus was temporary? Uhh.... You neglected to mention that. Branflakes was all "Oh I'm looking for the post now" Yeah, good luck with that, b/c you never said it.
People need more dil? Probably, but also we need more ways to refine it. I've got plenty of ore, earned the hard way, but only being able to refine 8k a day (esp in a small fleet and with only two toons) is almost pointless when you're looking at 1mil or more for an upgrade. There was nothing wrong with the IOR dil/fleet mark system... Other than those people exploiting certain foundry missions... Maybe you should take a look at YOUR requirements and do a better job of quality control. And give us more ways to get fleet marks, NOW.
I never had a desire to play an MMO until STO went F2P. 1, b/c I'm on a budget and can't really afford to pay another monthly bill. And 2. b/c the whole grind mentality really put me off. But I'd heard great things about STO and loved it from the start.
Then S7 happened. Our fleet roster took a dent and daily participation went down and has not recovered fully since. Then you introduced the IOR repeatable and progress started up again. Then you took out the nerf bat and hit us in the face just when we were getting back on track. Thanks for that.
Oh yeah, and let's not forget what you did to the doff grinder.
Or how about the boff slotting issue that you knew about after the tribble patch but went ahead with the holodeck patch anyway? If it hadn't been for another fleet member I'd have a useless unboff'd ship right now. They figured out you can correct the issue by trading the boff back and forth with someone. But yet no solution from you all? Thank god for my fleeties, at least they're looking out.
And now a possible solution to small fleets is merging? You can't be serious.
It's pretty much been one bad move after another. One more glitch after another. And people are getting fed up with it. I've half a mind to go back to playing Alien Arena. Ya'll need to fix this, and fix it fast. Months down the line? I wonder how many players you'll lose before then...
Delirium Tremens
XO of Training
Tier 5 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy, Tier 3 Dilithium Mine, Tier 3 Spire
Join us at www.dtfleet.com
got sick of the fleet mark grind missions so started doing foundry for marks you take marks away now have to do the grind missions again wtf who ever thought this was a good idear needs a slap.
1st off long tearm players will just get bored of grinding the fleet mark missions and probs will stop playing as much.
2nd for kdf side you can be Queued for 10-15 mins and still the fleet mark missions dont start. why because most KDF players are long tearm players and we are sick of doing the same missions. i like meny other kdf players stoped doing rom rep missions once we hit tier 5 rep because we get bored of the grinding.
HINT IF SOME THING WORKS DONT FIX IT COS YOU WILL ONLY BREAK IT AND GET PEOPLE PISSED OFF, AT YOU LIKE YOU DID TAKING DILITH OUT OF STF YOU DO REMEMBER THAT MESS DONT YOU? :eek:
im sure you devs get bored and just think up ways to wind players up
you probs could of fixed a game play bug in the time it took you to change the reward for foundry missions but no you feel your time is better spent changing something people like again,
The fact is, they said the exact OPPOSITE of what they're saying now before Fleet bases launched/as they were launching.
They're line was "oh, smaller fleets will still be fine, it will all even out and not be much harder" Now he wants to say it's "by design"? Lies. Pure and simple.
Not often I will step up to defend Dan - but what you said is simply not true.
They always stated that there design was based around a 25 person fleet. They also stated that the fastest even the super fleet could reach T5 would be around 7 months.
So If they were saying the super mega huge fleet would take a minium of 7 months - then what did the small fleets think?
And in fact there will not be ANY fleet in the game fully complete T5 for at least another 3 months - or 10 months total!
10 months for a fleet with 300+ active members
So with less than 25 it should take several years.
This is my observation and I'm pretty sure I will be nuked from high orbit here.
All Cryptic did was seal up an exploit we all knew was a licence to print dilly and marks that should not have been there. People on here are moaning about the removal of something that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Ironically I only found out about the IOR exploit today myself so i did spend the last few hours using it before they shut the tap off. So I'm not innocent myself. I never use the foundry and no one mentioned the exploit until it was due to be removed.
I understand people want to get their fleets up and running and the IOR dill and marks go a long way to help. However do people really want to spend hours everyday just doing the IOR misson, then doing the same with the next toon, and the next and the next. Dont know about you but that bore me stupid. You call doing stfs and dailies missons 'grind!' Doing the IOR 20 times a day across multiple toons drive me totally bonkers with grind. I'd have a heck of a lot of dill but my brain would have melted a long time before. A whole game to explore and people prefer to just sit there rince repeating one misson.
However I'm a casual gamer. Yes I play the game a lot but I go looking for missons, noy clicky one thing.
But thats just me as they say.
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
wow first time in awile that iam not actually logging in because I dont like being forced to a set direction by a game developer... wonder if anyone else is doing the same.. i wonder...
You have that now; small fleets are perfectly capable of growing. That growth will be much slower than for large fleets, but it's still growth.
I believe you mised the operative word "grind" in there, Syberghost. The same repetative thing day after day after day. The Foundry gave us some variety, different things to do for our Dil and our Fleet Marks -and- we could do them on our own schedule regardless of whatever real life had thrown at our fleet-mates. You guys took that from us, notice buried in a set of patch notes that some players never even look at, with nothing to shore up the loss of that revenue stream for -months- by Dan's own admission. No prior notice, no reminder, zip zero nada.
That's what has people angry and the fixes suggested in this thread certainly wouldn't require -months- to impliment.
This is my observation and I'm pretty sure I will be nuked from high orbit here.
All Cryptic did was seal up an exploit we all knew was a licence to print dilly and marks that should not have been there. People on here are moaning about the removal of something that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Ironically I only found out about the IOR exploit today myself so i did spend the last few hours using it before they shut the tap off. So I'm not innocent myself. I never use the foundry and no one mentioned the exploit until it was due to be removed.
I understand people want to get their fleets up and running and the IOR dill and marks go a long way to help. However do people really want to spend hours everyday just doing the IOR misson, then doing the same with the next toon, and the next and the next. Dont know about you but that bore me stupid. You call doing stfs and dailies missons 'grind!' Doing the IOR 20 times a day across multiple toons drive me totally bonkers with grind. I'd have a heck of a lot of dill but my brain would have melted a long time before. A whole game to explore and people prefer to just sit there rince repeating one misson.
However I'm a casual gamer. Yes I play the game a lot but I go looking for missons, noy clicky one thing.
But thats just me as they say.
Yes because protecting a starbase or protecting 3 ships from other ships over and over and over and over and over and over again to get fleet marks is soo great... :rolleyes:
Not everyone did the one clickys, some of us enjoyed doing missions each day as a fleet, allowing us oppertunities to expand our gameplay in a sense so it wasnt the same thing every darn time...
You have that now; small fleets are perfectly capable of growing. That growth will be much slower than for large fleets, but it's still growth.
And a .01% growth in the economy is still "growth" too, but its still detrimental to people considering inflation rates.
When a 10 member fleet has to work 1,000 times harder to complete a mission than a 100 member fleet, its still growth and it leaves the 10 member fleet in a constant state of grind-fest while the 100 member fleet isn't.
There are four members in my fleet that have at least contributed 2 million Fleet Credits worth of stuff to just the Starbase missions, one guy has contributed 7 million. Haven't we done enough?
Last I heard, this isn't Grind-Trek: Online, but if you are in a smaller fleet and want to be competitive with larger fleet members access to gear, that's exactly what happens, Grind-Trek: Online.
Just for the record, I do believe Cryptic has stated officially that if you add things up, 7 months is considered the "hard cap" for fastest possible time to reach Tier V starbase. As far as I know it has never been suggested as any kind of average, or realistically attainable goal.
I believe anyone suggesting otherwise is mistaken.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
You know there are a few ways you can look at scaling without people exploiting the Starbase Advancement, if you put a little thought into it you could do it in a way that wouldn't have to have a lot of rules. I had said in another thread:
They could have thresholds put in place so when your fleet reaches a certain size, the requirements get increased:
25 > 50 > 100 > 200 > 300 > 400 > 500
Whether they could base this on individual accounts or just characters I don't know. Let's just stick with the idea this is based on characters. Now the problem people bring up is that leaders will airlock members to reduce the requirements so they can breeze through their projects. One idea that might work or something similar would be:
Say I have a fleet with 100 members and it goes below the 100 mark. A project would become available to downsize my fleet which would take 1-2 weeks to complete for all the project requirements to be reduced or just have it take 1-2 weeks for the requirements to change and have a timer which displays that without having to complete a project. This way if fleets are really desperate to airlock members to take advantage, they'll have to wait 1-2 weeks for it to change.
They could scale the requirements so all fleets roughly take the same amount of time and not have it stupidly easy either. I don't think a smaller fleet should be punished because they don't want to have 200+ members.
Also many of my fleet members all teamed up to do the Foundry for fleet marks. You could have made it a requirement that a full team of fleet members grants you the fleet mark reward.
So yeah, don't remove something unless you replace it straight away with something of equal value. Then like someone else said, going and changing your story saying this was temporary having the fleet marks on foundry when no such thing was ever said, is just ridiculous, especially coming from a company like you. There is plenty of potential with this game, you've done some great work, so please stop messing around with things that either don't need to be messed with or at least replace it with something of equivalent value straight away if that's what you intend to do. I doubt many want to wait months for that.
Not often I will step up to defend Dan - but what you said is simply not true.
They always stated that there design was based around a 25 person fleet. They also stated that the fastest even the super fleet could reach T5 would be around 7 months.
So If they were saying the super mega huge fleet would take a minium of 7 months - then what did the small fleets think?
And in fact there will not be ANY fleet in the game fully complete T5 for at least another 3 months - or 10 months total!
10 months for a fleet with 300+ active members
So with less than 25 it should take several years.
No, they said it would be proportionate to the amount of people you had, not that they would intentionally design to be harder on smaller fleets - which what he's now claiming. Had they been up front that they were going to skew it in favor of these large fleets then more people would've been vocal about changing that before it became set in stone.
I also find it funny that some are trying to say that small fleets shouldn't exist, or if they do they shouldn't get a starbase. Ok. I guess families smaller than two and a half people (the current US average) shouldn't get a home. Extreme example, I know, but the comparison stands. You can't disallow a feature simply because a fleet doesn't meet some arbitrary number.
Captain Jason A. Kendall U.S.S. Indianapolis NCC-94668 90th Special Operations Task Force
Just for the record, I do believe Cryptic has stated officially that if you add things up, 7 months is considered the "hard cap" for fastest possible time to reach Tier V starbase. As far as I know it has never been suggested as any kind of average, or realistically attainable goal.
I believe anyone suggesting otherwise is mistaken.
The mega fleet that I belong just finshed T5 eng fab - It will take 4 more months for the rest.
11 months with 400+ active members sending projects off around the clock.
wow first time in awile that iam not actually logging in because I dont like being forced to a set direction by a game developer... wonder if anyone else is doing the same.. i wonder...
This is my observation and I'm pretty sure I will be nuked from high orbit here.
All Cryptic did was seal up an exploit we all knew was a licence to print dilly and marks that should not have been there. People on here are moaning about the removal of something that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Ironically I only found out about the IOR exploit today myself so i did spend the last few hours using it before they shut the tap off. So I'm not innocent myself. I never use the foundry and no one mentioned the exploit until it was due to be removed.
I understand people want to get their fleets up and running and the IOR dill and marks go a long way to help. However do people really want to spend hours everyday just doing the IOR misson, then doing the same with the next toon, and the next and the next. Dont know about you but that bore me stupid. You call doing stfs and dailies missons 'grind!' Doing the IOR 20 times a day across multiple toons drive me totally bonkers with grind. I'd have a heck of a lot of dill but my brain would have melted a long time before. A whole game to explore and people prefer to just sit there rince repeating one misson.
However I'm a casual gamer. Yes I play the game a lot but I go looking for missons, noy clicky one thing.
But thats just me as they say.
Its not sealing up the exploit that has cranked people up, its the grind-fest that has been required for people progress their non mega-sized starbases forward.
you know what gents at cryptic, im gonna make this short and sweet. its your game and you can justify why you kick us in the teeth all you want it comes down to this. you want to bone us for every second we play this game. you want to bleed us as bad as possible. you might as well take the foundry out of the game, cause as long as its in there people are going to make farming missions. what did you expect. a 5 year old with kindergarden economics could have figured that out. fine take out the only way we can keep up with the rediculous costs you place on us for building our reputations, and bases, and embasy. i mean seriously im glad i dont work for you, cause i would be helping the players find these exploits just to help them keep their heads above water.
the game used to be fun, now its a job. i feel like im playing eve.
Not everyone did the one clickys, some of us enjoyed doing missions each day as a fleet, allowing us oppertunities to expand our gameplay in a sense so it wasnt the same thing every darn time...
Then get and organise more fleet missons whats stopping you. As for people quitting because an exploit has been closed. Cutting nose off to spite face springs to mind.
IOR, next toon, IOR, next toon, IOR, next toon.... repeat TRIBBLE times every 30 mins.
All that dill to buy all those things and they still stand in one place... IOR, IOR, IOR... :rolleyes:
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
No, they said it would be proportionate to the amount of people you had, not that they would intentionally design to be harder on smaller fleets - which what he's now claiming. Had they been up front that they were going to skew it in favor of these large fleets then more people would've been vocal about changing that before it became set in stone.
I also find it funny that some are trying to say that small fleets shouldn't exist, or if they do they shouldn't get a starbase. Ok. I guess families smaller than two and a half people (the current US average) shouldn't get a home. Extreme example, I know, but the comparison stands. You can't disallow a feature simply because a fleet doesn't meet some arbitrary number.
Provide some proof of your claims - I have watched this thing closely since before they launched - never - ever did they say in anything written down that it would be "proportionate" to the size of the fleet.
Wait for hours in queues as KDF and see how long things take to get done... whether PVP or FMs... Yeah, those "exploits" were really hurting the game. LOL. failtroll says what?
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Saying small fleets should suffer by "design" is TRIBBLE. Its a dumb idea to make small fleets progress more slowly then larger fleets, simple fact is you either couldnt or wouldnt make a scaling system to be fair to all fleets. So instead of manning up to it you throw that out.
The foundry mission was FINE the way it was, small fleets are starved for dil? Well no TRIBBLE you keep taking away all our sources of Dil or cutting it down to nothing then wonder why?! You want to solve the dil problem, the repeaditive grind of same content etc. Return the IOR mission to how it was and give 2k dil per turn in, 2k dil per 15-30mins is fair and we can chose to do the content we want. Everyone wins!
But honestly Cryptic doesnt want us to win anything, we are supposed to slog through grind after grind after grind in the slowest most unfun way possible for them. Romulan instances are a joke reward wise vs other content but they dont increase them either.
My fleet agreed to halt progression cause of this, IOR we did together for fun as a fleet and were moving our starbase along at a decent pace, not some uber fast we would be done in no time breakneck speed cryptic seems to think.
The minds in charge of STO are flawed in their ideas, no content in any game should take 25 people 6+ months of grinding to complete its just irrational. 2-3 months i can see, but making that same task for a fleet of 5 take longer just cause that fleet enjoys having 5 friends is BS and you know it.
When you joined/made your fleets was your plan to make some uber super fleet? Or was it to collect friends to do fun things with reguardless of size? We are watching fleet after fleet die off because they cant progress in the same content as the rest of us. Cryptic you really want all of like 10 mega fleets and nothing else? Cause thats the way this beast is rolling.
Get your heads on straight, or hire someone who can think of a clear picture and move you towards it, cause atm your doing 1 step forward 10 steps back and doing it constantly. Listen to your damn testers when they say not to push bugged broken content out, you break more then you fix every time, and you do it KNOWINGLY which is beyond idiotic. If you see a red traffic light you wouldnt drive through it knowingly i would hope, yet you guys plow right into that school bus full of kids every chance you get.
Provide some proof of you claims - I have watched this thing closely since before they launched - never - ever did they say in anything written down that it would be "proportionate" to the size of the fleet.
I'll have to do some digging, but I'm sure others saw them say that the fleet base was meant to be attainable by all, and not meant to be a burden on smaller fleets. Proportionate may not have been the wording used, but it was certainly made clear that they were initially designing it to be just as attainable for a small fleet (albeit a bit longer) than it is for these huge mega-fleets.
Bottom line:
This is a terrible decision, it doesn't make sense, and if some random user can come up with a great formula for fleet advancement, why can't these "developers" that get paid a good chunk of cash to think of these things?
Captain Jason A. Kendall U.S.S. Indianapolis NCC-94668 90th Special Operations Task Force
Comments
NOTE: I have not read through the whole thread yet and replying to this particular quote...
Amen to that Brother!
While I wouldn't expect to implement that system like how City did, I could envision something along the lines of adding small amounts of Fleet marks as part of the rewards for all non-Foundry content, only if you were in a fleet. That way those who play everything else have a way of contributing to the Fleet's progression.
Typically, all I'm doing now is logging in and cycling my 7 FED Characters through their DOff missions and that's about it. For example, say you added a 1 FMark reward to every successful DOff mission and 3 for a critical success. I could see that if you have ways of getting criticals on all 20 missions, that it 'could' get exploitive, but it could be a interesting addition.
Thank you for the time...
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
You have that now; small fleets are perfectly capable of growing. That growth will be much slower than for large fleets, but it's still growth.
If they don't understand a simple y=mx+b formula and ever took college level mathematics or business classes, they should get their degrees revoked and their tax filings audited. Worst case scenario, all they have to do is walk over to their accounting department and ask an accountant who took cost (managerial) accounting about it (which they better have to earn a degree).
Maybe Cryptic should add an "Administrative" character class and we can figure out how to more efficiently run the game, and set up more realistic progressions.
Did you even bother to read the thread syberghost? Of course it's growth, but it's grossly disproportionate to that of the larger fleets. It needs to be addressed in a more nuanced way than: don't worry, it's still growth, or you can be patient or you can jump ship and join a larger fleet.
Who is going to recruit after the "help! my fleet is held hostage" post?
Most large fleets that have Tier 5 look to be not recruiting because of that.
Others have said it already, try to recruit as a small fleet and when the potential recruit finds out you have a low level starbase, they are not interested. Is why I was trying to level up my starbase by myself so I could attract some of the new blood in may. Have to have honey...
Catch 22 and then something.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
This post says it all. You've removed one thing without having a valid replacement. Basically you've said that the car has a flat tire and you taken it off without having a spare to put on and roadside assist is a few months away.
This is completely irresponsible to the people who play this game. As irresponsible as trying to fix tricobalts and stuffing up temporal disruption devices. Where is your quality control?
Like olivia211 said, you've gained a fair bit of my money. You've obviously got access to the behind-the-scenes stats so you can check up for yourself. No more. You've stuffed the player base up and now I'm so sick of reading excuses. Now when I try to read your latest justification I see it as
blah blah blah blah too bad, deal with it blah blah blah blah I don't care blah blah blah tell your story walking blah blah blah
Thank you for treating us like TRIBBLE that you'd scrape off your shoe.
People need more dil? Probably, but also we need more ways to refine it. I've got plenty of ore, earned the hard way, but only being able to refine 8k a day (esp in a small fleet and with only two toons) is almost pointless when you're looking at 1mil or more for an upgrade. There was nothing wrong with the IOR dil/fleet mark system... Other than those people exploiting certain foundry missions... Maybe you should take a look at YOUR requirements and do a better job of quality control. And give us more ways to get fleet marks, NOW.
I never had a desire to play an MMO until STO went F2P. 1, b/c I'm on a budget and can't really afford to pay another monthly bill. And 2. b/c the whole grind mentality really put me off. But I'd heard great things about STO and loved it from the start.
Then S7 happened. Our fleet roster took a dent and daily participation went down and has not recovered fully since. Then you introduced the IOR repeatable and progress started up again. Then you took out the nerf bat and hit us in the face just when we were getting back on track. Thanks for that.
Oh yeah, and let's not forget what you did to the doff grinder.
Or how about the boff slotting issue that you knew about after the tribble patch but went ahead with the holodeck patch anyway? If it hadn't been for another fleet member I'd have a useless unboff'd ship right now. They figured out you can correct the issue by trading the boff back and forth with someone. But yet no solution from you all? Thank god for my fleeties, at least they're looking out.
And now a possible solution to small fleets is merging? You can't be serious.
It's pretty much been one bad move after another. One more glitch after another. And people are getting fed up with it. I've half a mind to go back to playing Alien Arena. Ya'll need to fix this, and fix it fast. Months down the line? I wonder how many players you'll lose before then...
XO of Training
Tier 5 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy, Tier 3 Dilithium Mine, Tier 3 Spire
Join us at www.dtfleet.com
1st off long tearm players will just get bored of grinding the fleet mark missions and probs will stop playing as much.
2nd for kdf side you can be Queued for 10-15 mins and still the fleet mark missions dont start. why because most KDF players are long tearm players and we are sick of doing the same missions. i like meny other kdf players stoped doing rom rep missions once we hit tier 5 rep because we get bored of the grinding.
HINT IF SOME THING WORKS DONT FIX IT COS YOU WILL ONLY BREAK IT AND GET PEOPLE PISSED OFF, AT YOU LIKE YOU DID TAKING DILITH OUT OF STF YOU DO REMEMBER THAT MESS DONT YOU? :eek:
im sure you devs get bored and just think up ways to wind players up
you probs could of fixed a game play bug in the time it took you to change the reward for foundry missions but no you feel your time is better spent changing something people like again,
cryptic you just dont learn from past misstakes.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Not often I will step up to defend Dan - but what you said is simply not true.
They always stated that there design was based around a 25 person fleet. They also stated that the fastest even the super fleet could reach T5 would be around 7 months.
So If they were saying the super mega huge fleet would take a minium of 7 months - then what did the small fleets think?
And in fact there will not be ANY fleet in the game fully complete T5 for at least another 3 months - or 10 months total!
10 months for a fleet with 300+ active members
So with less than 25 it should take several years.
All Cryptic did was seal up an exploit we all knew was a licence to print dilly and marks that should not have been there. People on here are moaning about the removal of something that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Ironically I only found out about the IOR exploit today myself so i did spend the last few hours using it before they shut the tap off. So I'm not innocent myself. I never use the foundry and no one mentioned the exploit until it was due to be removed.
I understand people want to get their fleets up and running and the IOR dill and marks go a long way to help. However do people really want to spend hours everyday just doing the IOR misson, then doing the same with the next toon, and the next and the next. Dont know about you but that bore me stupid. You call doing stfs and dailies missons 'grind!' Doing the IOR 20 times a day across multiple toons drive me totally bonkers with grind. I'd have a heck of a lot of dill but my brain would have melted a long time before. A whole game to explore and people prefer to just sit there rince repeating one misson.
However I'm a casual gamer. Yes I play the game a lot but I go looking for missons, noy clicky one thing.
But thats just me as they say.
I believe you mised the operative word "grind" in there, Syberghost. The same repetative thing day after day after day. The Foundry gave us some variety, different things to do for our Dil and our Fleet Marks -and- we could do them on our own schedule regardless of whatever real life had thrown at our fleet-mates. You guys took that from us, notice buried in a set of patch notes that some players never even look at, with nothing to shore up the loss of that revenue stream for -months- by Dan's own admission. No prior notice, no reminder, zip zero nada.
That's what has people angry and the fixes suggested in this thread certainly wouldn't require -months- to impliment.
Yes because protecting a starbase or protecting 3 ships from other ships over and over and over and over and over and over again to get fleet marks is soo great... :rolleyes:
Not everyone did the one clickys, some of us enjoyed doing missions each day as a fleet, allowing us oppertunities to expand our gameplay in a sense so it wasnt the same thing every darn time...
And a .01% growth in the economy is still "growth" too, but its still detrimental to people considering inflation rates.
When a 10 member fleet has to work 1,000 times harder to complete a mission than a 100 member fleet, its still growth and it leaves the 10 member fleet in a constant state of grind-fest while the 100 member fleet isn't.
There are four members in my fleet that have at least contributed 2 million Fleet Credits worth of stuff to just the Starbase missions, one guy has contributed 7 million. Haven't we done enough?
Last I heard, this isn't Grind-Trek: Online, but if you are in a smaller fleet and want to be competitive with larger fleet members access to gear, that's exactly what happens, Grind-Trek: Online.
XO of Training
Tier 5 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy, Tier 3 Dilithium Mine, Tier 3 Spire
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I believe anyone suggesting otherwise is mistaken.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Also many of my fleet members all teamed up to do the Foundry for fleet marks. You could have made it a requirement that a full team of fleet members grants you the fleet mark reward.
So yeah, don't remove something unless you replace it straight away with something of equal value. Then like someone else said, going and changing your story saying this was temporary having the fleet marks on foundry when no such thing was ever said, is just ridiculous, especially coming from a company like you. There is plenty of potential with this game, you've done some great work, so please stop messing around with things that either don't need to be messed with or at least replace it with something of equivalent value straight away if that's what you intend to do. I doubt many want to wait months for that.
No, they said it would be proportionate to the amount of people you had, not that they would intentionally design to be harder on smaller fleets - which what he's now claiming. Had they been up front that they were going to skew it in favor of these large fleets then more people would've been vocal about changing that before it became set in stone.
I also find it funny that some are trying to say that small fleets shouldn't exist, or if they do they shouldn't get a starbase. Ok. I guess families smaller than two and a half people (the current US average) shouldn't get a home. Extreme example, I know, but the comparison stands. You can't disallow a feature simply because a fleet doesn't meet some arbitrary number.
U.S.S. Indianapolis NCC-94668
90th Special Operations Task Force
if dev's/admin's feet ever touched real dirt...
The young generation has no clue what freedom is. Because they do not know the limit of it.
Disenchanted for all my Characters
The mega fleet that I belong just finshed T5 eng fab - It will take 4 more months for the rest.
11 months with 400+ active members sending projects off around the clock.
5 person fleet should take 3 years at least.
Yep, me.
Its not sealing up the exploit that has cranked people up, its the grind-fest that has been required for people progress their non mega-sized starbases forward.
the game used to be fun, now its a job. i feel like im playing eve.
Then get and organise more fleet missons whats stopping you. As for people quitting because an exploit has been closed. Cutting nose off to spite face springs to mind.
IOR, next toon, IOR, next toon, IOR, next toon.... repeat TRIBBLE times every 30 mins.
All that dill to buy all those things and they still stand in one place... IOR, IOR, IOR... :rolleyes:
Provide some proof of your claims - I have watched this thing closely since before they launched - never - ever did they say in anything written down that it would be "proportionate" to the size of the fleet.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
The foundry mission was FINE the way it was, small fleets are starved for dil? Well no TRIBBLE you keep taking away all our sources of Dil or cutting it down to nothing then wonder why?! You want to solve the dil problem, the repeaditive grind of same content etc. Return the IOR mission to how it was and give 2k dil per turn in, 2k dil per 15-30mins is fair and we can chose to do the content we want. Everyone wins!
But honestly Cryptic doesnt want us to win anything, we are supposed to slog through grind after grind after grind in the slowest most unfun way possible for them. Romulan instances are a joke reward wise vs other content but they dont increase them either.
My fleet agreed to halt progression cause of this, IOR we did together for fun as a fleet and were moving our starbase along at a decent pace, not some uber fast we would be done in no time breakneck speed cryptic seems to think.
The minds in charge of STO are flawed in their ideas, no content in any game should take 25 people 6+ months of grinding to complete its just irrational. 2-3 months i can see, but making that same task for a fleet of 5 take longer just cause that fleet enjoys having 5 friends is BS and you know it.
When you joined/made your fleets was your plan to make some uber super fleet? Or was it to collect friends to do fun things with reguardless of size? We are watching fleet after fleet die off because they cant progress in the same content as the rest of us. Cryptic you really want all of like 10 mega fleets and nothing else? Cause thats the way this beast is rolling.
Get your heads on straight, or hire someone who can think of a clear picture and move you towards it, cause atm your doing 1 step forward 10 steps back and doing it constantly. Listen to your damn testers when they say not to push bugged broken content out, you break more then you fix every time, and you do it KNOWINGLY which is beyond idiotic. If you see a red traffic light you wouldnt drive through it knowingly i would hope, yet you guys plow right into that school bus full of kids every chance you get.
Why? How?
*boggles*
It's the refining cap.
I think I have a 32K backlog on my main character right now.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Bottom line:
This is a terrible decision, it doesn't make sense, and if some random user can come up with a great formula for fleet advancement, why can't these "developers" that get paid a good chunk of cash to think of these things?
U.S.S. Indianapolis NCC-94668
90th Special Operations Task Force