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Nerf to tricobalt and Temporal Disruption Device
darramouss1
Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
The new changes to tricobalt mines are the worst nerf I've seen in ages. One could argue that a 50% reduction in damage and a 50% in cooldown makes it fair. For those that use multiple tricobalt mines and dispersal patterns, the nerf in damage output is huge owing to the fact that the dispersal pattern cooldowns are unaffected. To be precise, the nerf results in a 37.5% reduction to your damage when using two launchers and Dispersal Pattern Beta III (DPB III).
Don't believe my 37.5% claim? OK. Let's assume that a tricobalt mine's old damage amount was 1,000 per mine and assuming that every mine hits, here are some examples using DPB III over a 60 second period. (I'm using 1,000 as it's an easy number to use.)
OLD SYSTEM WITH TWO MINE LAUNCHERS AND DPB III
Sample time = 60 secs
Mine launchers = 2
Mine damage = 1,000
Mine cooldown = 60 secs
Mine global cooldown = 30 secs
DPB III cooldown = 30 secs
Second 1 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 4,000 damage output. First launcher cooldown = 60 secs, second launcher and DPB III = 30 secs.
Seconds 1-30 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 31 - Activate DPB III and second launcher. 4,000 damage output. Second launcher cooldown = 60 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 30 secs.
Seconds 31-60 Cooldowns ticking away, sample time ends.
TOTAL DAMAGE = 8,000
NEW SYSTEM WITH TWO MINE LAUNCHERS AND DPB III
Sample time = 60 secs
Mine launchers = 2
Mine damage = 500
Mine cooldown = 30 secs
Mine global cooldown = 15 secs
DPB III cooldown = 30 secs
Second 1 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher = 15 secs.
Seconds 1-15 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 16 - Fire second launcher. 500 damage output. Second launcher cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 16-30 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 31 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher = 15 secs.
Seconds 31-45 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 46 - Fire second launcher. 500 damage output. Second launcher cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 46-60 Cooldowns ticking away, sample time ends.
TOTAL DAMAGE = 5,000
NEW SYSTEM WITH TWO MINE LAUNCHERS AND DPB III AND DPB II
Sample time = 60 secs
Mine launchers = 2
Mine damage = 500
Mine cooldown = 30 secs
Mine global cooldown = 15 secs
DPB III cooldown = 30 secs
Second 1 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher and DPB II = 15 secs.
Seconds 1-15 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 16 - Activate DPB II and fire second launcher. 1,500 damage output. Second launcher and DPB II cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 16-30 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 31 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher and DPB II = 15 secs.
Seconds 31-45 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 46 - Activate DPB II and fire second launcher. 1,500 damage output. Second launcher and DPB II cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 46-60 Cooldowns ticking away, sample time ends.
TOTAL DAMAGE = 7,000
Using these figures it's clear that if you use two tricobalt mine launchers and DPB III you have just suffered a 37.5% damage reduction, the most incredible nerf I've seen to date. By taking a valuable Lt Cmdr tactical ability and replacing it with DPB II you can reduce your damage loss to 12.5%.
I'm sorry, but this sort of nerf just has not been thought through.
To make matters worse, it appears that on Tribble the Temporal Disruption Device has had its damage output halved but the cooldown remains the same. For an item that I paid 200 lobi for, this is not acceptable. As a premium item they should be at least equal in power to the most powerful non-premium items. Now the Temporal Disruption Device is only half as useful as a tricobalt torpedo. This weakens the Temporal set, a 600 lobi investment. This has NOT been thought through.
Cryptic, these changes render the tricobalt mines and Temporal Disruption Devices useless. This is just as bad as when Emergency Power to Shields and Reverse Shield Polarity started cooldowns on each other. These need to be changed back at once.
Please note that this post adheres to all forum rules. (Yes, it sure does
Thank you and I'll make sure to pass this feedback along. -Brandon)
Don't believe my 37.5% claim? OK. Let's assume that a tricobalt mine's old damage amount was 1,000 per mine and assuming that every mine hits, here are some examples using DPB III over a 60 second period. (I'm using 1,000 as it's an easy number to use.)
OLD SYSTEM WITH TWO MINE LAUNCHERS AND DPB III
Sample time = 60 secs
Mine launchers = 2
Mine damage = 1,000
Mine cooldown = 60 secs
Mine global cooldown = 30 secs
DPB III cooldown = 30 secs
Second 1 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 4,000 damage output. First launcher cooldown = 60 secs, second launcher and DPB III = 30 secs.
Seconds 1-30 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 31 - Activate DPB III and second launcher. 4,000 damage output. Second launcher cooldown = 60 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 30 secs.
Seconds 31-60 Cooldowns ticking away, sample time ends.
TOTAL DAMAGE = 8,000
NEW SYSTEM WITH TWO MINE LAUNCHERS AND DPB III
Sample time = 60 secs
Mine launchers = 2
Mine damage = 500
Mine cooldown = 30 secs
Mine global cooldown = 15 secs
DPB III cooldown = 30 secs
Second 1 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher = 15 secs.
Seconds 1-15 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 16 - Fire second launcher. 500 damage output. Second launcher cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 16-30 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 31 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher = 15 secs.
Seconds 31-45 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 46 - Fire second launcher. 500 damage output. Second launcher cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 46-60 Cooldowns ticking away, sample time ends.
TOTAL DAMAGE = 5,000
NEW SYSTEM WITH TWO MINE LAUNCHERS AND DPB III AND DPB II
Sample time = 60 secs
Mine launchers = 2
Mine damage = 500
Mine cooldown = 30 secs
Mine global cooldown = 15 secs
DPB III cooldown = 30 secs
Second 1 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher and DPB II = 15 secs.
Seconds 1-15 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 16 - Activate DPB II and fire second launcher. 1,500 damage output. Second launcher and DPB II cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 16-30 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 31 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher and DPB II = 15 secs.
Seconds 31-45 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 46 - Activate DPB II and fire second launcher. 1,500 damage output. Second launcher and DPB II cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 46-60 Cooldowns ticking away, sample time ends.
TOTAL DAMAGE = 7,000
Using these figures it's clear that if you use two tricobalt mine launchers and DPB III you have just suffered a 37.5% damage reduction, the most incredible nerf I've seen to date. By taking a valuable Lt Cmdr tactical ability and replacing it with DPB II you can reduce your damage loss to 12.5%.
I'm sorry, but this sort of nerf just has not been thought through.
To make matters worse, it appears that on Tribble the Temporal Disruption Device has had its damage output halved but the cooldown remains the same. For an item that I paid 200 lobi for, this is not acceptable. As a premium item they should be at least equal in power to the most powerful non-premium items. Now the Temporal Disruption Device is only half as useful as a tricobalt torpedo. This weakens the Temporal set, a 600 lobi investment. This has NOT been thought through.
Cryptic, these changes render the tricobalt mines and Temporal Disruption Devices useless. This is just as bad as when Emergency Power to Shields and Reverse Shield Polarity started cooldowns on each other. These need to be changed back at once.
Please note that this post adheres to all forum rules. (Yes, it sure does
Thank you and I'll make sure to pass this feedback along. -Brandon) Post edited by darramouss1 on
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Comments
Never mind the fact that 95% of the time the target is dead and the torpedo is 3/4 the way there, and that's a standard launch not a heavy.
Like I mentioned it my other post (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8048301&postcount=7) at least make it as fast as the Romulan torps with damage to scale.
I'm not worried about the regular Trico nerf, as I will simply adapt to the new play-style... however nerfing the TDD that bad needs to be undone. Quickly too. As I said I paid for the device... It should have premium performance.
If you don't fix it, well I will adapt as I said... however I will be considerably less likely to pay into the system going forward. If I pay for a premium device or weapon I expect it to retain it's "value" without suffering such a severe and unwarranted nerf.
I am a lifetime subscription member since launch, i use the lobi store quite a lot (mainly because i think it helps the money flow in game to keep it a good one).
I have never put so much money in a game and got such bad return. It's like buying a car and having the dealership get it back 6 months later for a "tuneup", to have it return with a halfed sized engine...
I play StarKraft II, it costs 45$, is updated as much as sto with patches, and i've played it for as long.
Do I really need to stop playing/PAYING this game ? ...
My choice is tipping more and more away from this marketing-model they have been pushing with f2p
Now don't get me wrong, i really do like this game, that's why i'm online everyday for a few hours... But there are limits to make fun of people & their money.
Hope they keep up this good game and revert changes to Lobi items :-)
PS:sorry for my bad writting, I live up north in French speaking Qu?bec ;-)
Update:
Thanks to the dev team / bug hunters for the reverted change on the TDD.
By the way, I still use my Tricobalt Mine Launcher, I still find it usefull, less so on big targets, but definitively better against smaller foes.
Fleet Admiral Traka
Grey Council Fleet
"We stand between the shadow and the light"
____________________________________________
why is this invisible torpedo not available to players .
plasma as always been the least of favorite weapon sets due to the fact there's far to many defenses against plasma but the Borg do over kill.
i used Tricobalt over the time to fight the Borg on my STF runs due to the fact it could hit hard but now as killed that approach.
i also use the new plasma rep sets i do like but find they don't do enough damage
problem we always face new stuff comes out it gets tested on tribble server and should be if at all nerf before it comes to the hollow deck that's what tribble server is used for so to start nerfing stuff in the hollow deck just disapoints everyone.
and tricoblot was nerfed a few week ago now nerfed again that is so bad looks like we gonna have to take knives to gun fight
it was never about "dps" - it was the spike damage.
Why should i waste my slots now on tricobalt that only do half the damage, regardless of cooldown, since it will STILL only disperse 4 mines. with dispersal III.
I could simply use plasma mines and get way less cooldown, similar damage and TWELWE mines with dispersal III.
SO right now they look like one of the weakest mines in game.
Unless the "nerf" also includes a boost from 4 to 8 mines or 2 mines without dispersal.
like we gonna have to fight the Borg with toothpicks and wet sponges
Trics were broke. Seriously, seriously broke. I'm not saying this was the right fix or the right amount of the right fix, but trics were big-time broken.
Change DPB III to release 7 tricobalt mines instead of 4. This would result in 8,000 damage over any given minute. This would mean tricobalts retain their damage, their half power, their half recharge and DPB III wouldn't have to change in regards to the other mines. DPB I and II would also need to be changed as well.
As for the TDD, this needs to be changed now, if not sooner!!
They had no penetration or dot, you could only lay 1-4 mines (as opposed to layign 4-12 chroniton mines?).
I agree that tricobalt mines + DPB3 + Tactical Fleet combo was a bit over the top, but tricobalt projectiles seemed fine given their long 1-minute cooldown and vulnerability to incoming weapon fire.
TDD's were an unexpected casualty of this nerf as well, especially since they are supposed to be high-powered + destructable Chroniton torpedoes. However, if the TCD nerf also affected TDD's, then their shared STO-routines should be "de-coupled" so that changes to one does not impact the other. The same goes for tricobalt mines.
A valid point. How were they broken? There were less of them, plus they travel so much slower than other mines. Many a time I've seen trico mines activate and head after me but I've had time to evasive maneuvers away from the mines. Much harder to do with other mines.
It's just crying from shield tanking super escorts that got them nerfed.
They're useless now.
Or, not that they're useless, just that they wont fill the roll they were intended to fill.
There will be something better to fill that spot.
Complain about tric mines, well. tbh. if a tric torp is carrying lets say 50 kilos of ordinance, a mine would carry 250 kilos of ordinance. they should be doing much more damage than torps.
something needs to be done about it
after the first nerf they did not one hit anything with the crit yet alone being nerfed again
my trics going in my bank and never to be used again until somethings done.
Tric nerfed way too much. Yes you halved Damage, and yes you halved CD, so in theory you say DPS remains the same.
Unfortunately this is yet more evidence that YOU DO NOT PLAY YOUR OWN GAME.
You fail to realise that people use these weapons with dispersal patterns, and this nerf causes a HUGE reduction in DPS because of the interaction with pattern CDs as neatly demonstrated by the OP.
It reminds me of the time me and 3 fleeties took Gozer through Infected a few weeks after it was launched, and his jaw hit the floor because he had never seen set-ups that could do that much damage. Cue across the board increase in the strength of all STF borg...
Developers, please consult on changes with people who actually play the game before swinging your nerf bats.
Also TDD nerf. Put it back. Now. I am serious, this is a real money purchase (I bought a set number of reinforcement doff packs when they gave 10 lobi to buy the whole temporal set. These doff packs were bought with Zen that I had purchased on my credit card.) and should not be so drastically changed after said purchase.
...#LLAP...
Still I have been annoyed by not be able to release one due to cool down time so I'll see it goes. Overall however I expect this will reduce my total DPS because I will more frequently have a torp ready but not able to see a target.
I never thought of this. Cruisers already have it tough enough, now they have a cut in their potential dameg. Ouch for cruiser captains!!
I rather had they double the cooldown than this.
Damn!
If one went critical under Dispersal Patterns they all went critical and delivered massive damage all together.
The first mine would destroy your shields and stun you, the remaining would kill you outright from damagr that you can not mitigate.
Thats how Tricobalt mines and dispersal patterns where broken.
I do not like this fix iether, though.
R.I.P
I never knew this. Surely it would have been better to fix this problem rather than fix a problem that didn't exist?
Couldn't they just fix the group-projectile-crit once and for all?
It seems like the STO planning team lacks focus...
Are you trying to convince me that I may be better off not purchasing thing? If so I'll gladly withdraw my subscripion just let me know...
It may be subject to balance changes in the future, but was not intended to be changed alongside Tricobalt damage output.
As for the Tricobalt changes themselves, we're monitoring the performance of these weapons under the new changes and they are likely to be subject to additional tweaks. The massive spike damage that was possible using them on their previous cooldown rotation was causing an imbalance in damage-over-time expectations that could not easily be accommodated when balancing space combat.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
bort, with torps damage over time is meaningless. its all about timing things right to get a bare hull hit. the mine change is compleatly understandable, at the very least the crit chaining wont be nearly as big a problem.
but are you aware that HY tric torps deal less damage then high yield plasmas now? is that seriously intended? frankly it would be balanced if the new cooldowns remained on the tric torp, but the damage was restored to how it was. it was an obscure weapon with a high opportunity cost befor, if you could fire it more often with the damage it had it would be more main stream.
Thank you. It's good to hear that the Temporal Disruption Device will be restored.
As for the tricobalts, forgive my forwardness, but if it's a recognised issue that if one goes critical then they all go critical, why wouldn't the recognised issue be fixed before making any other changes? That seems to be a common sense thing to me.