The damage output of the Lobi Store Temporal Torpedo was not intended to be modified in this change, and will be restored.
It may be subject to balance changes in the future, but was not intended to be changed alongside Tricobalt damage output.
As for the Tricobalt changes themselves, we're monitoring the performance of these weapons under the new changes and they are likely to be subject to additional tweaks. The massive spike damage that was possible using them on their previous cooldown rotation was causing an imbalance in damage-over-time expectations that could not easily be accommodated when balancing space combat.
Is there any chance that you could change the Temporal Disruption Device to Chroniton damage instead of Tricobalt? It just seems odd that the Set 2 perk is a 27.4% increase to Chroniton Projectile Weapon Damage, yet that would have no effect on the device that is giving you said bonus. Was Tricobalt chosen because of the animation/effect of the TDD being more in line with Tricobalt than Chroniton?
The whole thing just always seemed odd. I have all 5 temporal items and all three fed ships, but I don't use the TDD or the beam array because of the set bonus not really being worth it.
As it stands now, to make full use of the set and bonuses, the weapons loadout would have to look sort of like:
-Antiproton Turret or Beam Array
-Antiproton Turret or Beam Array
-TDD
If you were to change the damage type to Chroniton, at least we could put the TDD to the fore and have it as our sole projectile. I tried the above destroyer setup for a while, but it just felt too all over the place and went back to the old standby of 3 DHC + Quantum up front, 3 Turrets in the back, which is sad because after spending the kind of resources it took to get these items, I'm flying around in basically a pricey fleet escort that I can't change the bridge on or make the mirror universe version look like the regular universe version, despite that being the case with all other mirror ships.
Sorry, I know that reads as being negative, but just my observations. I like the ship, those are just the nitpicks I have with it. I've only recently started posting after playing a long time and this stuff has been bottled up for a while.
Thanks again for the ship!
I am Elachi! All other sentient lifeforms must bow before Elachi! Yo soy Elachi! For those of you who don't "habla Iconoa", Elachi is Iconian for.. The Achi!
For me tricobalt was just fine, in pvp you fire once...if the enemy see it or even run 50 engine power and max impulse (not full impulse) its good to run faster than the mines and maybe the torpedo, making it hard to hit non-stationary targets.
also, hey they die to 1 shot, any AoE like fire at will, scatter vollet, grav well, tyken's rift, the specially desingned point defense system or KDF's friend aceton assimilator, can stop it without effort. shields also break down the damage of these weapons so the enemy also must have no shield.
yes, i used to hit with 550K dmg each mine...but hey, its a very specific build that gives away tanking ability, but that was buffed and needs 5 mins to recharge them all. no buffs and they hit 40-50k each mine, that if straight to the hull on an enemy under attack beta 2 effect.
now to the range, tric warhead draws way too much attention so fire from long range is nearly useless. mines? unless you know where is the enemy going they will not even trigger. ok, get close to the enemy and fire the mines. they'll stand there for a few seconds until activation, thats more than time to react counting they kinda shine when they do...for a stealth mine, emmiting a satelite signal is not very smart.
so overall, you must get within tractor beam's range of an unshielded stationary distracted enemy and hope for him to not fire at you (as for that much damage you must use TCD consoles and lose cannon power) or your mines for 8 seconds while they activate and move for a chance to kill it, considering you had time to aling your ship and make all mines hit at same time, cuz if they don't, the repel can give time for the enemy to recover or wake up.
if you still thinks tricobalt is overpowered...then just make it less (yes...even less) effective upon a shield by making shields more resistant to tricobalt so a full facing shield would resist an unbuffed strike.
about the bio-neural...was the change to it intended? it has a range limit so you can't just buff, get real close and yell "Surprise!!". i see that 2,5 km is close so not much range to react but when i fire my bio-neural, i move a bit faster than it and if the torpedo is destroied, it detonates on current location...so i often kill myself with it...not hard to avoid it either, but the target still must be stationary and distracted. just the point defense can get a shield facing out and use its own hole.
ps:. i noticed that point defense's damage scales with ship's weapon power....is that intended? not asking for change it just wanna know ^^
Flying a 15k dps dual cannons hazari destroyer. Let the discussion begin!
6.2k is alright but when you compare it to a photon torp that fires 3 times during that 20s and each one is about 5k the TDD just doesn't really cut the mustard, especially as it rarely reaches the target before the target is dead.
I can see how it would be useful under some circumstances but negh'vars just don't last long enough when I do cure. I tend to do CSE with 2 friends and we all roll escorts. We pop the cubes one by one as just 1 of us can handle the BoPs and later raptors. Which leaves 5 people beating on 3 poor negh'vars. They don't last long enough for a slow torp to hit them. We tend to clear CSE with 7-8 minutes left on the clock. Think our record was 9 mins left.
I guess it's probably more use PvP than PvE but then again I don't PvP much.
No the mines were not overpowered either, to actually kill someone with the mines you had to gear your whole loadout to that effect so as to hold your opponent in place while your mines activated and killed them be that with warp plasma or tractor beams ect however there were viable counters such as mass plcates, point defence, photonic shockwave or shockwave torps and any other number of area effect powers so it was balenced. What annoys me is that they have nerfed the TRIBBLE out of tricobalts which were being used the way intended but have done nothing to stop people abusing Repulsor beams which are far more devastating than tricobalt mines ever were. Bops are the worst for this just decloaking right on top of you activating repulsors and you are dead before you can even react, the kinetic damage from them is phenomonal and should not be even playing against NPC Typhoon battle cruisers can be lethal. I was doing the pi canis sorties and in my bop full shields and the typhoon activates his repulsors and in the time it took me to activate Polarise hull i was down to 8% hull, utterly ridiculous.
No the mines were not overpowered either, to actually kill someone with the mines you had to gear your whole loadout to that effect so as to hold your opponent in place while your mines activated and killed them be that with warp plasma or tractor beams ect however there were viable counters such as mass plcates, point defence, photonic shockwave or shockwave torps and any other number of area effect powers so it was balenced. What annoys me is that they have nerfed the TRIBBLE out of tricobalts which were being used the way intended but have done nothing to stop people abusing Repulsor beams which are far more devastating than tricobalt mines ever were. Bops are the worst for this just decloaking right on top of you activating repulsors and you are dead before you can even react, the kinetic damage from them is phenomonal and should not be even playing against NPC Typhoon battle cruisers can be lethal. I was doing the pi canis sorties and in my bop full shields and the typhoon activates his repulsors and in the time it took me to activate Polarise hull i was down to 8% hull, utterly ridiculous.
What you've said is true, you've forgotten though that there are several targets in STFs that are static and need to be destroyed.
Correctly used before the nerf, they were used by certain people to wipe out the transformers and the gates in ISE and KSE and the cubes in CSE without destroying the nanite generators.
Oh yeah I am aware of that abuse I was just talking about PvP however to nerf in this fashion is like going after a fly with a shotgun. It will probably not even fix the problem as what is to stop two players deploying the mines in tandem. I don't see why they just didn't make the Nanite Transformer untargetable until the generators are destroyed anyway or make it have a ridiculous damage resistance until the generators are dropped.
I am getting really sick of all these nerfs. As an stf player you spend a lot of time and resources working out what works best (in this case, I really enjoyed playing my tric escort build), then cryptic decides to nerf it. So now I have to work out the new best build, and I bet that too will end up being seen as the next OP item destined to get nerfed. If you think about it, it is a never-ending cycle that will always end up with everything good in the game being nerfed until everything is as mediocre as everything else.
It is the same with getting dilithium, fleet marks or anything else, players find the best/easiest way to do it, cryptic looks at their stats, sees that people are doing things just one way, see that as an exploit and then over-kill it!
kaaahhhhhnnnnn I don't like being misquoted, I don't agree with the tric mine nerf as I stated on page 8. What you quoted me as saying I was talking about the temporal disruption device, I was also not talking about PvP but PvE. After what shar487a said I can see why it is how it is for PvP and how it can be a powerful and annoying, high damage shot but it's just not useful for my PvE games as things die too fast by cannon fire.
While we're back on tric mines, I think you hit the nail on the head about giving the gates and cubes a high damage resistance before the probes/gens/transformers are destroyed. I wouldn't like the gates to be untargetable unless they weren't allowed to shoot you, if they stay targetable you can use jam sensors to run away. I did however think the previous nerf they did which made tric mines do more consistent damage and lowered the damage of a crit was a step in the right direction.
I think the main problems are generally caused by AP:A, GDF and FOMM all at the same time creating such a massive damage difference between the 3 classes.
Never known repulsors being that powerful, I've heard some grumble about it but figured it's a PvP gripe, in PvE it does bugger all damage just like all other sci skills.
Sorry the 5k damage was what I was seeing off my photons in actual damage, not base. My mistake, but still at 3000 damage and a reload of 6s it will out DPS the TDD on it's own. The high yield version does pack more wallop but with the CD increase to was it 1min(?) or something to me only makes it useful in very rare $4!t hitting fan PvE situations.
I am not disputing that high sustained DPS is excellent for PVE purposes. However, TDD's and TCD's are intended for spike damage as opposed to sustained pressure damage (DPS). Spike Damage tactics attempt to overwhelm the target's defenses with short duration + very high damage burst attack, usually destroying the target outright if executed properly. The latter also works very well against larger-than-normal PVE opponents like borg cubes. Unfortunately such tactics usually involve abilities with very long cooldowns (FoMM, GTF, Tac-Fleet, etc).
High DPS builds are easy to achieve with end-game gear and a proper DPS skill rotation. I farm PVE Fleet Actions with high DPS builds, usually taking 1st or 2nd place and their corresponding purple drops.
I don't PvP so I can't comment on it's use in that fashion. In PvE the TDD is just not worth it as I said, I run with 2 good friends and we all have very high damage, most things die before the TDD or high yield version reaches the target which makes it a waste of what could be a photon torp, transphasic cluster etc. which would consistently do more damage to targets.
I also have a fully geared Mobius, and I place the TDD aft for the 3-set Temporal Inversion ability while using a front-mounted Hyper-plasma launcher as the primary forward torpedo weapon. Its DPS is also very good, but it goes a step further with access to Temporal Inversion slowing all nearby enemies while buffing movement, attack speed, and ability recharge timers.
EDIT: The Mobius has access to two full-skill-reset abilities: 1) Temporal Inversion and 2) Temporal Backstep. You might as well use both if you want to maximize the ship's survivability and killing power.
Is there any chance that you could change the Temporal Disruption Device to Chroniton damage instead of Tricobalt? It just seems odd that the Set 2 perk is a 27.4% increase to Chroniton Projectile Weapon Damage, yet that would have no effect on the device that is giving you said bonus.
I always thought this was odd. I had assumed the Temporal Disruption Device would be affected by Chroniton damage boosts, and was in disbelief when I was told otherwise. Seemed like a really stupid set bonus.
Well, killing a cube with just a mine-load and a torpedo wasn't OP enough?
Or one shooting players in pvp? After the last "nerf" I tried them out and one-shoted three escorts in pvp with one mine-load. And those weren't bad players.
Since I dont play pvp often, I do not care much about pvp-issues, but after playing them, I concurre that they are more than a bit OP. Had one player with me in Infected, and he damaged the cube with one projectile dealing 243k damage.
You are angered because you get one-shoted in a STF? I can imagine the frustration after being one-shoted by another player, who isnt even better than you or has better equipment than you. In fact, Tric-mining is the easiest way to play.
Your position is just silly.
You killed 3 escorts, one shotted them..with tricobalt mines. Let's examine what is required for that to happen:
Mine deployment delay: 2 seconds.
Mine activaction delay: 3 seconds.
Mine speed once it homes: 1/6th impulse (when any ship @ min engine power).
Mine hitpoints: ~250hp
# of tricobalt mines with dispersal beta 3: Four.
So... for these mines to hit an escort....
... the escort has to have been flying directly at the mines or was snared or sitting still in space.
...that escort did not see the 5 second, VERY VISIBLE animation (hell it even TWINKLES for attention when they activate) when the ship deployed the mines barely 1km away from him.
...escort flew directly into an already deployed and cloaked minefield and was so unfortunate he was also flying directly AT the mines..and got hit in the face (not side or rear).
Of all the above, only the LAST one excuses any and all player skill issues from the escort that died to it.
The other 2 reasons merely indicates extreme poor skills from the escort or the escort willingly ignored the mines and let them home in on him....at 1/6th impulse. There are a dozen ways to counter slow moving mines...if that escort did not have one on him then tough luck.
As for PVE: Tric mines work very well because they do spike and damage and stun at the same time. A cube does not die because 4 mines hit it, it dies because the 1st mine that hits it stuns off its auto-repair and shield-healing and allows the other three mines to inflict damage without mitigation.
A player getting hit by 2 tricobalts has the first tric slam his shield out and stun him and the 2nd mine hits the naked hull just before the stun wears off. THAT is what makes the tricobalts so darn effective.
They should remove the stun from the tricobalts, return the old damage. Replace the stun with a simple knockback+timer increase (say, if a bridge power had 5 seconds to be re-used it gets bumped to 7) rather than a complete stun effect.
bpharma it would not let me quote your post it kept giving me another quote, however on with my post. I am sorry if I mistook your earlier post and as for your last post I completely agree about your concerns with the gates if it can target you then it has to be targetable but gates where I have seen gates destroyed early in Khitomer is space it does not adversely effect the result of the STF as the Spheres still spawn when you have destroyed the Genarators. But again with the gates as I suggested with the transformers as well as conferring a massive regen the nanite Gens/Probes/transformers should also confer a ludicrous damage resistance too and that would solve the problem infinitely better than nerfing trics because as I said earlier there is nothing to stop players just dropping mines in tandem now. I also agree that one before the last patch where trics were nerfed where the normalised the criticals was a step in the right direction but then it has been suggested that if one mine goes critical they all do which produces absurd results, if that is the case then there was still a better way of resolving that if they reduced the crit damage of each mine by 75% then even if all 4 trics went critical it would only be as if one under the old numbers had gone critical.
I like the suggestion(s) to simply remove crit bonus and restore orginal base damage and timers. That would make them essentially on par with every other torpedo plus crit. Basically you would use them for guaranteed crit, but you only get the guarantee if you hit the target. That would effectively limit them to PVE.
I like the suggestion(s) to simply remove crit bonus and restore orginal base damage and timers. That would make them essentially on par with every other torpedo plus crit. Basically you would use them for guaranteed crit, but you only get the guarantee if you hit the target. That would effectively limit them to PVE.
let there be crit, only reduce it's max to 25% of the previous max.
Why cant they just restore the gameplay as it was before the patch? Enough ppl are complaining about it....
Because that would involve them admitting that they made a mistake. Something they will fight to the bone to avoid doing. Pride gets you nowhere, Cryptic. In fact, it's more admirable to admit when you're wrong rather than fight an already lost battle.
They cater only to the special interest groups that lick their boots.
That is, federation escort pilots.
For you see... this change to tricobalts ONLY benefits them. Increases their damage output by a significant amount while non-fed escorts cannot compete.
Since the majority of the players in this game ARE federation escorts and they are the dumkoffs that keep purchasing TRIBBLE to make their ships even more overpowered... well, you get the idea why congress bends over for them. constantly.
You guys are definitely right, the few guys in their jem bug ships whining, so they have dmg superiority again. They should start nerving the jem attack ship actually...
The new changes to tricobalt mines are the worst nerf I've seen in ages. One could argue that a 50% reduction in damage and a 50% in cooldown makes it fair. For those that use multiple tricobalt mines and dispersal patterns, the nerf in damage output is huge owing to the fact that the dispersal pattern cooldowns are unaffected. To be precise, the nerf results in a 37.5% reduction to your damage when using two launchers and Dispersal Pattern Beta III (DPB III).
Don't believe my 37.5% claim? OK. Let's assume that a tricobalt mine's old damage amount was 1,000 per mine and assuming that every mine hits, here are some examples using DPB III over a 60 second period. (I'm using 1,000 as it's an easy number to use.)
OLD SYSTEM WITH TWO MINE LAUNCHERS AND DPB III
Sample time = 60 secs
Mine launchers = 2
Mine damage = 1,000
Mine cooldown = 60 secs
Mine global cooldown = 30 secs
DPB III cooldown = 30 secs
Second 1 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 4,000 damage output. First launcher cooldown = 60 secs, second launcher and DPB III = 30 secs.
Seconds 1-30 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 31 - Activate DPB III and second launcher. 4,000 damage output. Second launcher cooldown = 60 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 30 secs.
Seconds 31-60 Cooldowns ticking away, sample time ends.
TOTAL DAMAGE = 8,000
NEW SYSTEM WITH TWO MINE LAUNCHERS AND DPB III
Sample time = 60 secs
Mine launchers = 2
Mine damage = 500
Mine cooldown = 30 secs
Mine global cooldown = 15 secs
DPB III cooldown = 30 secs
Second 1 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher = 15 secs.
Seconds 1-15 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 16 - Fire second launcher. 500 damage output. Second launcher cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 16-30 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 31 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher = 15 secs.
Seconds 31-45 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 46 - Fire second launcher. 500 damage output. Second launcher cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 46-60 Cooldowns ticking away, sample time ends.
TOTAL DAMAGE = 5,000
NEW SYSTEM WITH TWO MINE LAUNCHERS AND DPB III AND DPB II
Sample time = 60 secs
Mine launchers = 2
Mine damage = 500
Mine cooldown = 30 secs
Mine global cooldown = 15 secs
DPB III cooldown = 30 secs
Second 1 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher and DPB II = 15 secs.
Seconds 1-15 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 16 - Activate DPB II and fire second launcher. 1,500 damage output. Second launcher and DPB II cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 16-30 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 31 - Activate DPB III and first launcher. 2,000 damage output. First launcher and DPB III cooldown = 30 secs, second launcher and DPB II = 15 secs.
Seconds 31-45 - Cooldowns ticking away.
Second 46 - Activate DPB II and fire second launcher. 1,500 damage output. Second launcher and DPB II cooldown = 30 secs, first launcher and DPB III = 15 secs.
Seconds 46-60 Cooldowns ticking away, sample time ends.
TOTAL DAMAGE = 7,000
Using these figures it's clear that if you use two tricobalt mine launchers and DPB III you have just suffered a 37.5% damage reduction, the most incredible nerf I've seen to date. By taking a valuable Lt Cmdr tactical ability and replacing it with DPB II you can reduce your damage loss to 12.5%.
I'm sorry, but this sort of nerf just has not been thought through.
To make matters worse, it appears that on Tribble the Temporal Disruption Device has had its damage output halved but the cooldown remains the same. For an item that I paid 200 lobi for, this is not acceptable. As a premium item they should be at least equal in power to the most powerful non-premium items. Now the Temporal Disruption Device is only half as useful as a tricobalt torpedo. This weakens the Temporal set, a 600 lobi investment. This has NOT been thought through.
Cryptic, these changes render the tricobalt mines and Temporal Disruption Devices useless. This is just as bad as when Emergency Power to Shields and Reverse Shield Polarity started cooldowns on each other. These need to be changed back at once.
Please note that this post adheres to all forum rules. (Yes, it sure does Thank you and I'll make sure to pass this feedback along. -Brandon)
a few problems with the sample that have to be done against some thing with out shields and assume they dont shoot them out of space cause they move so slow, and activates 4 seconds after you drop them off so the last set wouldnt even be with in the first set of damage in a 60 sec dispersal time
it was never about "dps" - it was the spike damage.
Why should i waste my slots now on tricobalt that only do half the damage, regardless of cooldown, since it will STILL only disperse 4 mines. with dispersal III.
I could simply use plasma mines and get way less cooldown, similar damage and TWELWE mines with dispersal III.
SO right now they look like one of the weakest mines in game.
Unless the "nerf" also includes a boost from 4 to 8 mines or 2 mines without dispersal.
this guy is totally right but it not just the mines but the torpedos that took a major damage reduction, only able to shoot one at a time per target and they are slow so they can be shot out of space now they TRIBBLE off the npc's more then they do damage rather use other weaponary now which f my whole set up i had
Not counting what can be/is healed in the 30 second window in "they do the same total damage"? (Ha!)
Not counting this greatly favors ships with better maneuverability?
There is also the problem that offloads a greater sum of micromanagement on the player.
Suggestion: Devs, Announce it's coming a patch in advance and ask players to actually test this stuff on the test server if you can't bother to make a checklist to do this stuff your self. At least that way you have the defense "Hey, we let you test this before hand ..."
They did mention a long time ago that tricobalt mines were a problem and they were doing things about them, which is why we got the first nerf (which I think was actually a better idea) and they said they would see how it went.
One way to deal with tric mines would be to put a cap on them so no matter if they crit or not they can't go higher than 90% health of gateway (cube CSE) divided by 20 (max number of mines able to be deployed at one time) so they just can't be abused like that. Still I do think the best way was suggested earlier to have enemies being healed by probes or transformers have a 90% resistance to damage.
As for PvP whinners, apart from the temporal backstep it's really hard to be killed by them. As mentioned earlier you have 5 seconds to get away from them or destroy them. Even then your team mates should be helping too AND you can outrun them!!
a few problems with the sample that have to be done against some thing with out shields and assume they dont shoot them out of space cause they move so slow, and activates 4 seconds after you drop them off so the last set wouldnt even be with in the first set of damage in a 60 sec dispersal time
OK, assume they're set against probes on Cure Space Elite. Cubes and probes don't shoot the mines and the probes don't have shields. The 4 second activation time has nothing to do with it as we're looking at the mines that can be deployed within a 60 second period.
The stats hold true.
Even if you were to account for a set percentage being shot out of the sky, the damage for the new system will still be a whole lot less than the old system.
They did mention a long time ago that tricobalt mines were a problem and they were doing things about them, which is why we got the first nerf (which I think was actually a better idea) and they said they would see how it went.
Did they? Well, I owe them a apology then.
I still stand by the suggestion of announce a change is on the test serve the day it's there. "Some time down the road at some point in time" doesn't quite cover that.
One way to deal with tric mines would be to put a cap on them so no matter if they crit or not they can't go higher than 90% health of gateway (cube CSE) divided by 20 (max number of mines able to be deployed at one time) so they just can't be abused like that. Still I do think the best way was suggested earlier to have enemies being healed by probes or transformers have a 90% resistance to damage.
As for PvP whinners, apart from the temporal backstep it's really hard to be killed by them. As mentioned earlier you have 5 seconds to get away from them or destroy them. Even then your team mates should be helping too AND you can outrun them!!
Correction, It's really hard to get killed by them if you have nothing else to focus on. :P
Honestly? I think the best fix wouldn't have been to touch tricobolt at all. It would have been to step down the abilities that let them crit for mega damage. Other then someone min/maxing to do mega damage with them they weren't really broken. Unskilled they at most do 20K a pop.
Short of someone dropping three or four mines right on top of you as your shields go down, and maybe even then, they were not going to kill you.
Edit: Point of order, if someone can drop and keep your shields down for tric mines to fly in, they didn't need tric mines to kill you.
Also TDD nerf. Put it back. Now. I am serious, this is a real money purchase
Exactly .
You want to balance s purchasable item in the first week after the item is out .
Ok .
Not GREAT , but ok .
You want to "balance" something like that A MONTH or more after it's been released ?
NO !
No way !!!
That is cheating your costumers and making it look like you have something else to sell so you're nerfing the "old junk" in favor of the "new shiny" .
Didn't you guys learn anything from the time Gecko thought to split the Excelsior's Transwarp powers (between T3-T5) and re-sell them in pieces ?
Ppl will not buy the same S%^&t twice , and will not stand for nerfing the product they purchased in good faith in so that Cryptic can release the next shiny in balance with existing stats , yet make it seem like it's the new "all powerful" must have .
They cater only to the special interest groups that lick their boots.
That is, federation escort pilots.
For you see... this change to tricobalts ONLY benefits them. Increases their damage output by a significant amount while non-fed escorts cannot compete.
Since the majority of the players in this game ARE federation escorts and they are the dumkoffs that keep purchasing TRIBBLE to make their ships even more overpowered... well, you get the idea why congress bends over for them. constantly.
what you talking about, i fly a fed escorts and i want the tricobalts back the way they were, and i'm not the only one.
what you talking about, i fly a fed escorts and i want the tricobalts back the way they were, and i'm not the only one.
What I'm saying is ONLY fed escorts benefit from this change. You can drop dispersal 3 tricobalt matching the timer of the mine which matches the timer of every other torpedo and energy weapon setup.
translation: massive dps boost to speedy ships that fight and tank. Aka, fed escorts not the cloak capable KDF that do not.
But in any case, these devs will never admit their federation-bias so its a moot point. The mines will remain as they are and KDF takes one more in the rear end.
Comments
Is there any chance that you could change the Temporal Disruption Device to Chroniton damage instead of Tricobalt? It just seems odd that the Set 2 perk is a 27.4% increase to Chroniton Projectile Weapon Damage, yet that would have no effect on the device that is giving you said bonus. Was Tricobalt chosen because of the animation/effect of the TDD being more in line with Tricobalt than Chroniton?
The whole thing just always seemed odd. I have all 5 temporal items and all three fed ships, but I don't use the TDD or the beam array because of the set bonus not really being worth it.
As it stands now, to make full use of the set and bonuses, the weapons loadout would have to look sort of like:
Destroyer
-Antiproton DHC
-Antiproton DHC
-Chroniton Dual Beam Array
-Chroniton Torpedo Launcher
-Antiproton Turret
-Antiproton Turret
-TDD
Science
-Antiproton Beam Array
-Chroniton Dual Beam Array
-Chroniton Torpedo Launcher
-Antiproton Turret or Beam Array
-Antiproton Turret or Beam Array
-TDD
If you were to change the damage type to Chroniton, at least we could put the TDD to the fore and have it as our sole projectile. I tried the above destroyer setup for a while, but it just felt too all over the place and went back to the old standby of 3 DHC + Quantum up front, 3 Turrets in the back, which is sad because after spending the kind of resources it took to get these items, I'm flying around in basically a pricey fleet escort that I can't change the bridge on or make the mirror universe version look like the regular universe version, despite that being the case with all other mirror ships.
Sorry, I know that reads as being negative, but just my observations. I like the ship, those are just the nitpicks I have with it. I've only recently started posting after playing a long time and this stuff has been bottled up for a while.
Thanks again for the ship!
also, hey they die to 1 shot, any AoE like fire at will, scatter vollet, grav well, tyken's rift, the specially desingned point defense system or KDF's friend aceton assimilator, can stop it without effort. shields also break down the damage of these weapons so the enemy also must have no shield.
yes, i used to hit with 550K dmg each mine...but hey, its a very specific build that gives away tanking ability, but that was buffed and needs 5 mins to recharge them all. no buffs and they hit 40-50k each mine, that if straight to the hull on an enemy under attack beta 2 effect.
now to the range, tric warhead draws way too much attention so fire from long range is nearly useless. mines? unless you know where is the enemy going they will not even trigger. ok, get close to the enemy and fire the mines. they'll stand there for a few seconds until activation, thats more than time to react counting they kinda shine when they do...for a stealth mine, emmiting a satelite signal is not very smart.
so overall, you must get within tractor beam's range of an unshielded stationary distracted enemy and hope for him to not fire at you (as for that much damage you must use TCD consoles and lose cannon power) or your mines for 8 seconds while they activate and move for a chance to kill it, considering you had time to aling your ship and make all mines hit at same time, cuz if they don't, the repel can give time for the enemy to recover or wake up.
if you still thinks tricobalt is overpowered...then just make it less (yes...even less) effective upon a shield by making shields more resistant to tricobalt so a full facing shield would resist an unbuffed strike.
about the bio-neural...was the change to it intended? it has a range limit so you can't just buff, get real close and yell "Surprise!!". i see that 2,5 km is close so not much range to react but when i fire my bio-neural, i move a bit faster than it and if the torpedo is destroied, it detonates on current location...so i often kill myself with it...not hard to avoid it either, but the target still must be stationary and distracted. just the point defense can get a shield facing out and use its own hole.
ps:. i noticed that point defense's damage scales with ship's weapon power....is that intended? not asking for change it just wanna know ^^
Flying a 15k dps dual cannons hazari destroyer. Let the discussion begin!
No the mines were not overpowered either, to actually kill someone with the mines you had to gear your whole loadout to that effect so as to hold your opponent in place while your mines activated and killed them be that with warp plasma or tractor beams ect however there were viable counters such as mass plcates, point defence, photonic shockwave or shockwave torps and any other number of area effect powers so it was balenced. What annoys me is that they have nerfed the TRIBBLE out of tricobalts which were being used the way intended but have done nothing to stop people abusing Repulsor beams which are far more devastating than tricobalt mines ever were. Bops are the worst for this just decloaking right on top of you activating repulsors and you are dead before you can even react, the kinetic damage from them is phenomonal and should not be even playing against NPC Typhoon battle cruisers can be lethal. I was doing the pi canis sorties and in my bop full shields and the typhoon activates his repulsors and in the time it took me to activate Polarise hull i was down to 8% hull, utterly ridiculous.
What you've said is true, you've forgotten though that there are several targets in STFs that are static and need to be destroyed.
Correctly used before the nerf, they were used by certain people to wipe out the transformers and the gates in ISE and KSE and the cubes in CSE without destroying the nanite generators.
It is the same with getting dilithium, fleet marks or anything else, players find the best/easiest way to do it, cryptic looks at their stats, sees that people are doing things just one way, see that as an exploit and then over-kill it!
While we're back on tric mines, I think you hit the nail on the head about giving the gates and cubes a high damage resistance before the probes/gens/transformers are destroyed. I wouldn't like the gates to be untargetable unless they weren't allowed to shoot you, if they stay targetable you can use jam sensors to run away. I did however think the previous nerf they did which made tric mines do more consistent damage and lowered the damage of a crit was a step in the right direction.
I think the main problems are generally caused by AP:A, GDF and FOMM all at the same time creating such a massive damage difference between the 3 classes.
Never known repulsors being that powerful, I've heard some grumble about it but figured it's a PvP gripe, in PvE it does bugger all damage just like all other sci skills.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I am not disputing that high sustained DPS is excellent for PVE purposes. However, TDD's and TCD's are intended for spike damage as opposed to sustained pressure damage (DPS). Spike Damage tactics attempt to overwhelm the target's defenses with short duration + very high damage burst attack, usually destroying the target outright if executed properly. The latter also works very well against larger-than-normal PVE opponents like borg cubes. Unfortunately such tactics usually involve abilities with very long cooldowns (FoMM, GTF, Tac-Fleet, etc).
High DPS builds are easy to achieve with end-game gear and a proper DPS skill rotation. I farm PVE Fleet Actions with high DPS builds, usually taking 1st or 2nd place and their corresponding purple drops.
I also have a fully geared Mobius, and I place the TDD aft for the 3-set Temporal Inversion ability while using a front-mounted Hyper-plasma launcher as the primary forward torpedo weapon. Its DPS is also very good, but it goes a step further with access to Temporal Inversion slowing all nearby enemies while buffing movement, attack speed, and ability recharge timers.
EDIT: The Mobius has access to two full-skill-reset abilities: 1) Temporal Inversion and 2) Temporal Backstep. You might as well use both if you want to maximize the ship's survivability and killing power.
Your position is just silly.
You killed 3 escorts, one shotted them..with tricobalt mines. Let's examine what is required for that to happen:
Mine deployment delay: 2 seconds.
Mine activaction delay: 3 seconds.
Mine speed once it homes: 1/6th impulse (when any ship @ min engine power).
Mine hitpoints: ~250hp
# of tricobalt mines with dispersal beta 3: Four.
So... for these mines to hit an escort....
... the escort has to have been flying directly at the mines or was snared or sitting still in space.
...that escort did not see the 5 second, VERY VISIBLE animation (hell it even TWINKLES for attention when they activate) when the ship deployed the mines barely 1km away from him.
...escort flew directly into an already deployed and cloaked minefield and was so unfortunate he was also flying directly AT the mines..and got hit in the face (not side or rear).
Of all the above, only the LAST one excuses any and all player skill issues from the escort that died to it.
The other 2 reasons merely indicates extreme poor skills from the escort or the escort willingly ignored the mines and let them home in on him....at 1/6th impulse. There are a dozen ways to counter slow moving mines...if that escort did not have one on him then tough luck.
As for PVE: Tric mines work very well because they do spike and damage and stun at the same time. A cube does not die because 4 mines hit it, it dies because the 1st mine that hits it stuns off its auto-repair and shield-healing and allows the other three mines to inflict damage without mitigation.
A player getting hit by 2 tricobalts has the first tric slam his shield out and stun him and the 2nd mine hits the naked hull just before the stun wears off. THAT is what makes the tricobalts so darn effective.
They should remove the stun from the tricobalts, return the old damage. Replace the stun with a simple knockback+timer increase (say, if a bridge power had 5 seconds to be re-used it gets bumped to 7) rather than a complete stun effect.
let there be crit, only reduce it's max to 25% of the previous max.
I really hate waiting weeks for bugs that were identified early on Tribble to be fixed on Holodeck despite all of the advanced warnings.
Out of curiosity, has Cryptic ever stopped a Holodeck deployment due to patch bugs being identified earlier on Tribble?
Because that would involve them admitting that they made a mistake. Something they will fight to the bone to avoid doing. Pride gets you nowhere, Cryptic. In fact, it's more admirable to admit when you're wrong rather than fight an already lost battle.
Lol ind incur the wrath of 1,000 PvP crybabies?
Where do you think this nerf came from, anyways?
It seems that it's not a case of the majority wanting a change, but rather a very loud minority.
They cater only to the special interest groups that lick their boots.
That is, federation escort pilots.
For you see... this change to tricobalts ONLY benefits them. Increases their damage output by a significant amount while non-fed escorts cannot compete.
Since the majority of the players in this game ARE federation escorts and they are the dumkoffs that keep purchasing TRIBBLE to make their ships even more overpowered... well, you get the idea why congress bends over for them. constantly.
a few problems with the sample that have to be done against some thing with out shields and assume they dont shoot them out of space cause they move so slow, and activates 4 seconds after you drop them off so the last set wouldnt even be with in the first set of damage in a 60 sec dispersal time
this guy is totally right but it not just the mines but the torpedos that took a major damage reduction, only able to shoot one at a time per target and they are slow so they can be shot out of space now they TRIBBLE off the npc's more then they do damage rather use other weaponary now which f my whole set up i had
Not counting this greatly favors ships with better maneuverability?
There is also the problem that offloads a greater sum of micromanagement on the player.
Suggestion: Devs, Announce it's coming a patch in advance and ask players to actually test this stuff on the test server if you can't bother to make a checklist to do this stuff your self. At least that way you have the defense "Hey, we let you test this before hand ..."
One way to deal with tric mines would be to put a cap on them so no matter if they crit or not they can't go higher than 90% health of gateway (cube CSE) divided by 20 (max number of mines able to be deployed at one time) so they just can't be abused like that. Still I do think the best way was suggested earlier to have enemies being healed by probes or transformers have a 90% resistance to damage.
As for PvP whinners, apart from the temporal backstep it's really hard to be killed by them. As mentioned earlier you have 5 seconds to get away from them or destroy them. Even then your team mates should be helping too AND you can outrun them!!
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
OK, assume they're set against probes on Cure Space Elite. Cubes and probes don't shoot the mines and the probes don't have shields. The 4 second activation time has nothing to do with it as we're looking at the mines that can be deployed within a 60 second period.
The stats hold true.
Even if you were to account for a set percentage being shot out of the sky, the damage for the new system will still be a whole lot less than the old system.
Did they? Well, I owe them a apology then.
I still stand by the suggestion of announce a change is on the test serve the day it's there. "Some time down the road at some point in time" doesn't quite cover that.
Correction, It's really hard to get killed by them if you have nothing else to focus on. :P
Honestly? I think the best fix wouldn't have been to touch tricobolt at all. It would have been to step down the abilities that let them crit for mega damage. Other then someone min/maxing to do mega damage with them they weren't really broken. Unskilled they at most do 20K a pop.
Short of someone dropping three or four mines right on top of you as your shields go down, and maybe even then, they were not going to kill you.
Edit: Point of order, if someone can drop and keep your shields down for tric mines to fly in, they didn't need tric mines to kill you.
Exactly .
You want to balance s purchasable item in the first week after the item is out .
Ok .
Not GREAT , but ok .
You want to "balance" something like that A MONTH or more after it's been released ?
NO !
No way !!!
That is cheating your costumers and making it look like you have something else to sell so you're nerfing the "old junk" in favor of the "new shiny" .
Didn't you guys learn anything from the time Gecko thought to split the Excelsior's Transwarp powers (between T3-T5) and re-sell them in pieces ?
Ppl will not buy the same S%^&t twice , and will not stand for nerfing the product they purchased in good faith in so that Cryptic can release the next shiny in balance with existing stats , yet make it seem like it's the new "all powerful" must have .
what you talking about, i fly a fed escorts and i want the tricobalts back the way they were, and i'm not the only one.
how many of you have 80k combined shields and hull?
yeah. cause only tricobalts are the problem hampering pvp in this game. the ttk is too short - has always been too short.
What I'm saying is ONLY fed escorts benefit from this change. You can drop dispersal 3 tricobalt matching the timer of the mine which matches the timer of every other torpedo and energy weapon setup.
translation: massive dps boost to speedy ships that fight and tank. Aka, fed escorts not the cloak capable KDF that do not.
But in any case, these devs will never admit their federation-bias so its a moot point. The mines will remain as they are and KDF takes one more in the rear end.
Its getting crowded back there...