Some Vesta Questions

paparock78 · January 2013

So I've recently come back to the game, about 3 weeks ago. I didn't get very far the last time I played, a whopin' 39 days back at launch, so it goes without saying that I lack some practical experience on some things.

I've played hard the last few weeks, hit VA and have some questions now.

Firstly, I'm an engineer.
I just bought the vesta 3 pack

Currently I'm flying the "engineer" version of the ship for the additional engi consoles, but have come to the opinion that most engi consoles are sad compared to sci and tac ones and that I should probably switch hulls to one of those two, any opinions on that?

Having the 3 pack I was flying 3x aux cannons and all 3 of the special consoles. Yesterday I dropped one of the cannons in favor of a tricobalt torp launcher. In the aft I have a tricobalt mine launcher and 2 phaser beams (I'm a traditionalist, I love phasers). I was going to use turrets but not being able to use the subsystem targeting without beams felt like I was self gimping myself.

Ultimately I'm asking some veterans out there what hull should I fly and how should I outfit it, roughly. I'm very much enjoying the ship type, I've flown nothing but fatty cruisers up to this point and it's refreshing to be able to turn and react instead of just shrug and take it. So I really wana make this ship shine for me and any advice is welcome. thank you in advance.

weylandjuarez · January 2013

My opinion is that if you're not running 3 x Aux DHCs on the Vesta then you're not getting the best out of it.

Subsystem Targeting is nice but hardly essential so my (Tac) Vesta loadout would be:

3 x Aux DHCs
2 x Mk XII Advanced (Fleet) Phaser Turrets [Dmg]x3 [Acc]
Omega Kinetic Cutting Beam (for Omega Weapons Amplifier)

Mk XII Borg Deflector (+5 Aux)
Mk XII Jem'hadar Engines (+5 Weapons, +?.? Weapons*)
Mk XII Borg Shields (+5 Shields)

*additional Weapon Power bonus depends on the base weapon power

4 x Phaser Relays
2 x Plasma Distribution Manifolds (+ to Weapons)
2 x Field Generators
Borg Console (+5 Weapons)
Romulan Zero Point (+1.8 all systems)

Traits: Accurate + Warp Theorist (for increased Warp Core Potential)

Skills: Max points in Energy Weapons/Warp Core Efficiency and Warp Core Potential + Aux/Weapons power.

Plus a few Efficient Saurian Boffs and a Liberated Borg Engineer.

A setup like this should allow you to run 125 Aux and 100+ Weapons power - a little squishy but the maximum possible DPS you can get out of a 125 Aux Vesta build (barring putting a Tac in there). And you'll be doing more DPS than a non-Aux Cannons build due to two 'weapons' power reserves.

Oh, and Elite Scorpions from the Romulan Reputation

deianirrah · January 2013

I personally prefer the Multimission Reconaissance Explorer (the Tactical version) just for the added Ooomph. I do use the three consoles as well - and two Aux cannons as well as the Omega Torpedo in the bow, a Phaser Beam array and turret as well as the Cutting Beam aft as I do use the Borg set. I was tempted to try the Romulan set as one has to love the high speed plasma torpedo launcher instead - but well, You cannot have everything as it would make sense to go plasma with that set instead of using phasers. Could not get myself to drop the beam array as I enjoy subsystem targetting while I position myself for another cannon run.

Never got the hang of mines but that is just me, tricobalt mines with the right patterns are nasty buggers.

So my version would be

2 x Aux DHC
1 x Omega Torpedo Launcher

1 x Phaser Beam Array Mk XII [Acc] [CrtD]x2
1 x Phaser Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2 [CrtD]
1 x Kinetic Cutting Beam

Assimilated Deflector Array Mk XII
Assimilated Subtranswarp Engines Mk XII
M.A.C.O. Resilient Shield Array Mk XII (You might go for the complete Mk XII Borg set, though - as You prefer)

4 x Phaser Relays
1 x Field Generator
1 x Sympathetic Thermion Transceiver
1 x Quantum Field Focus Controller
1 x Multidimensional Wave-Function Controller
1 x Neutronium Armor
1 x Assimilated Module

Advanced Danube Runabouts - though Advanced Shield Repair Drones or the Elite Scorpions do work as well

With 125 Aux energy, efficient BOffs and moving around a lot I get some nice survivability out of it.

paparock78 · January 2013

Thanks for the replies so far I've got a lot to think about, I don't have the rep with omega to utilize some of these things yet, but always nice to have something to work towards.

Any suggestions on BOFF skills and arrangements? I know the ship has the two uni slots so always a bit touigh trying to figure who to put where. I'm not up on all the abbreviations for boff skills so be gentle with me LOL

deianirrah · January 2013

I do use this setup and I know there are countless better ones, it is the one I prefer to do STFs with:

Lt. Tactical: Torpedo High Yield I, Cannon Scatter Volley I
Lt. Engineering: Emergency Power to Shields I, Reverse Shield Polarity I
Commander Science: Science Team I, Hazard Emitters II, Energy Siphon II, Gravity Well III
Ensign Universal: Polarize Hull I
Lt. Commander Universal: Tactical Team I, Cannon Rapid Fire I, Attack Pattern Omega I

In addition to that: Shield Batteries, Engine Batteries and the Subspace Field Modulator for increased survivability.

Most of my BOffs have the Efficient-trait, one the Leadership-trait (as I heard it might be broken).

kingstonalan · January 2013

go for all efficient trait, and 1 romulan crit trait! :rolleyes:

with 6 points in energy spec, rom crit tier skill, zero-point, and rom crit trait boff... I'm at 10.7% critical chance

also, I've parsed Elite Scorps vs Advanced Danubes... the scorps are about 2.5x more dps!

weylandjuarez · January 2013

kingstonalan wrote: »

go for all efficient trait, and 1 romulan crit trait! :rolleyes:

with 6 points in energy spec, rom crit tier skill, zero-point, and rom crit trait boff... I'm at 10.7% critical chance

also, I've parsed Elite Scorps vs Advanced Danubes... the scorps are about 2.5x more dps!

^^ this!

If you get the 'Efficient' build working, the next thing is maxxing out your Crits

whytelyon · January 2013

I built my Vesta as a Torpedo Boat.

Fore
Omega Torp
Romulan Torp
Aux Cannons (Debating on switching to Experimental Plasma Beam)

Aft
2x Plasma Turrets
Omega Cutting Beam

All my tac consoles are plasma torp consoles, I use all 3 vesta consoles, and Elite Scorpion Fighters.

pwstolemyname · January 2013

For PVE this AOE build works wonders. Just be sure to use three Deflector Officer Duty officers to fix some of the more horrendous ability cool down times.

Tactical team, Cannon Scatter Volley, Attack pattern Beta.
Tactical team, Cannon Scatter Volley
Emergency Power to Shields, Auxiliary Power to Structural Integrity Field.
Polarize Hull, Hazard Emitters, Gravity Well, Energy Syphon
Transfer Shield Strength.

With lower levels of scatter volley and a higher level attack pattern you get a bigger damage boost then vice versa. The energy Syphon isn't a bad de-buff for boss ships but primarily it is a large boost to all your systems power, with this you shouldn't need to put any power into weapons. Aux and shields will be all you need with Aux cannons forward, two turrets and a beam array, or three turrets aft.

The 4 phaser relays you can fit on the Reconnaissance are a much better choice for PVE then anything else. If you relay find you need more survivability then the Surveillance variant is a better choice then the Strategic as the Vesta's tank is in her shields not her hull. Field Generators are a fantastic console for this.

darkjeff · January 2013

weylandjuarez wrote: »

A setup like this should allow you to run 125 Aux and 100+ Weapons power - a little squishy but the maximum possible DPS you can get out of a 125 Aux Vesta build (barring putting a Tac in there). And you'll be doing more DPS than a non-Aux Cannons build due to two 'weapons' power reserves.

I ran a MM Recon Explorer ignoring the Aux cannons and I usually got 6k DPs. How much more DPS are you getting from Aux cannons?

I used Phasers because of the Quantum Phaser, didn't use all three consoles because I found whenever I needed the invulnerability I was probably already running the healing field and it wasn't available. Didn't use the kinetic reflection because I never seemed to find the right circumstances to use it. I kept just the healing field as a backup group heal, and the Quantum Phaser is amazing.

********************
Fore: 1 Fleet Adv Phaser DHC, 1 Quad Phaser, 1 Phaser DBB
Aft: 2 Fleet Adv Phaser Turrets, 1 Kinetic Cutting Beam

Tac: 4 Phaser Relays
Eng: 1 Neutronium Alloy, 1 Assimilated Console
Sci: 1 Quantum Field Focus Controller, 1 Sympathetic Fermion Transceiver, 1 Zero-Point Energy Conduit, 1 Tachyokinetic Converter
Hanger: Elite Scorpions

CDR Sci: Grav Well 3, TSS3, HE2, PH1
LT CDR Uni (Eng): Aux2Struct 2, EPtS2, EPtW1
LT Eng: EPtS2, EPtW1
LT Tac: APB1, TT1
ENS Uni (Tac): BO1

2 Conn DOffs
1 Grav DOff
2 Deflector DOffs

90/50/25/35 or 95/50/25/30 (can't remember)

********************

2 Conn DOffs reduce the cooldown of TT1 to 15s and give +20 Attack Patterns for APB. Activate TT1 followed by APB whenever possible. Grav DOff is important for Grav Well 3, the 2 Deflector DOffs help me toss out more GW3s.

Full Borg set, Efficient Captain and 5 Efficient BOffs along with constant cycling of EPtW1 and EPtS2 kept me at 115 weapon power after drain, 105 shield power, around 55 engine power, and 76 auxiliary power.

DBB allows for Subsystem Targetting. Use it any time you face an enemy with shields.

As an Engineer, tap EPS Power Transfer before activating Quantum Phaser, so it fires at over 100 Aux power. (Also fire off BO1 when you do this, since EPS will boost your BO1 damage and almost negate the power drain.) Use the Quantum Phaser whenever possible since it deals massive DPS, but do it early so you can get the full 12 seconds out of it. Just firing the quantum phaser twice at full duration should add about 900 dps in an STF.

As an Engineer, you also have Nadion Inversion to utterly negate the power drain from BO1, so use NI before BO1 (obviously don't use it alongside EPS or you'll be reducing the amount of BOs you can fire off). Check your NI's duration - if it's longer than 30 seconds you'll be able to get two blasts from BO1 out of it. Also carry Weapon Batteries for when NI and EPS aren't available.

Primarily use BO1 to help pop shields, because the hanger of Elite Scorps will spit out Heavy Plasma torpedoes. Fighters primarily deal damage via torpedoes, so not taking down shields will cost you DPS. Using it alongside the Quantum Phaser is just an attack of opportunity thing - so long as I'm using EPS, I may as well also fire BO1.

Grav Well 3 will also help your fighters' HY plasma torps, and help teammates with AoEs too. Spec'ing Particle Generator will increase the Grav Well's kinetic damage (I think I got 1000 dps) as well as Quantum Phaser and (if you have it) Borg Tractor Beam damage.

Otherwise, park 2-3km from your victim and just blast away. TSS3, HE2, and the healing field means you can provide decent help to your allies. Along with RSF and Miracle Worker, you'll be surprisingly tough. Don't get cocky and be quick to pop heals, the only times I've died in an eSTF while in a Vesta was from thinking "Oh, I can wait another 1-2 seconds and the enemy will die". Your fighters on Intercept with counter invisible torpedoes, and the only other spike comes from Negh'var Isometric charges which will bounce off your fighters and then obliterate you with 6 digits of damage. C'est la vie.

The above build/tactic gave me around 6k DPS in eSTFs, including the 1k from the fighters. (Parsed multiple times using ACT with Hilbert's v2012 plug-in.)

Addendum:

When I used 3 Aux cannons and the same aft weapons, there was a notable decrease in DPS. Aux cannons are for if you slot in a Sci BOff for the Lt Cdr universal station. I used the ship like a heavy destroyer, so didn't use them. You could even put a Tac BOff into the Lt Cdr, further negating Aux Cannons but you'd be really, really squishy.

hroothvitnir · January 2013

If your gonna run an aux cannon build Id suggest the adapted sets. Getting the engine wich gives a boost to your power levels plus if you use the deflector you get the 2 piece wich is 8.8 aux power if I remember. throw on the rom and omega consoles and the ship runs with a really impressive base power. I use the eptx doff so I can get a cycle out of eptw1 and eptsII and at that point I have mine running 90/100/50/125. With the maco shield it goes even higher when your being shot at. which if you open with a fully buffed lance console and crf, is going to be for the short remainder of the targets life.

kimmym · February 2013

Aux cannons are gimp. No top-end DPS layout is going to use them. They have limited use in builds where people do not want to swap power, but if you know how to swap power effectively aux cannons are a total DPS loss.

I run my Vesta like this (Aventine hull, the "tac" version)

3xDHC, phaser
KCB, 2x phaser turrets
omega defector+engines
maco shields

4xphaser console
2x vesta console, rommie -threat +pla partgen console, rommie -threat +hullheal partgen console
remaining vesta console, assimulated module.

TSS1, Scramble Sensors 1, HE 3, GW3
Either PH1 or ST1, I prefer PH
TT1, APB1 or CSV1. I prefer APB1, as I run elite scorps and I want to up their damage as much as possible.
EP2S1, A2B1
EP2W1, DEM1, EWP1

3xtechnician doffs
1 gravemetric scientist
1 sensor officer, the new kind, that adds a power recharge time debuff to scramble sensors.

Scramble sensors isn't really of great use in ESTF, but in almost any other situation it is a great skill. The new doff that makes it a power recharge buff at least makes it useable in ESTF and I don't need to swap the boff out. Before the the new doff I went with TSS1, HE2, VM1, GW3, and in ESTF that is probly still a better loadout, but I said TRIBBLE it and just went with SS and the doff full time.

Edit: If you run APB instead of CSV and stick a DBB up front in place of a DHC you can acheive similar DPS and still use your subsystem targeting, but on a Vesta I prefer the raw DPS.... YMMV

weylandjuarez · February 2013

kimmym wrote: »

Aux cannons are gimp. No top-end DPS layout is going to use them. They have limited use in builds where people do not want to swap power, but if you know how to swap power effectively aux cannons are a total DPS loss.

On the contrary, if you want the max DPS out of the Vesta, Aux cannons are great because you've got 2 pools of 'Weapons' power.

Put it this way, if 3 x DHCs and 3 x Turrets (or whatever) are all pulling power from 125 Weapons, some of your weapons are going to have less power available to them than if they're firing from a separate 'pool'.

If you build your Vesta right (see my previous post) you can run 125 Aux and 100+ Weapons (without any buffs) - hardly 'gimp'. Admittedly, it's a pretty niche build (and you sacrifice a lot of durability) but it provides the possibility of a Tac (APA/GDF/FOM) flying a 125 Aux Sci ship with a Cmdr Sci and possibly a Lt. Cmdr Tac - pretty damn cool if you ask me.

kimmym · February 2013

I think you are undervaluing the power consumtion reduction proc from the omega weapons 2pc.

It should make a wep power vesta out damage a split aux/wep vesta.

Of course, it all depends on how good you are at managing power levels, and using an A2B build puts aux cannons right out of the running... I don't know about you but the math on A2B builds is just too good...

weylandjuarez · February 2013

kimmym wrote: »

I think you are undervaluing the power consumtion reduction proc from the omega weapons 2pc.

It should make a wep power vesta out damage a split aux/wep vesta.

Of course, it all depends on how good you are at managing power levels, and using an A2B build puts aux cannons right out of the running... I don't know about you but the math on A2B builds is just too good...

Personally I don't run Aux2Batt builds but I don't doubt that it's effective - note that the Omega Weapons Amplifier works pretty sweet on the high Aux/high Weapons build too though since it adds a further buff to an already high Weapons setting (I'd run a Kinetic Cutting Beam instead of one Phaser Turret).

kimmym · February 2013

Hehe, I'm hooked on A2B personally. It is so good on ships that can support it. Defiants aren't good for it for example, far to many tac slots to get a good build with, but most ships have enough variety in their boff slots that A2B becomes a no-brainer once you get used to building for it.

weylandjuarez · February 2013

kimmym wrote: »

Hehe, I'm hooked on A2B personally. It is so good on ships that can support it. Defiants aren't good for it for example, far to many tac slots to get a good build with, but most ships have enough variety in their boff slots that A2B becomes a no-brainer once you get used to building for it.

Yeah, it's something I've been meaning to try for a while now - when I've got some free time I'll try out your build

kimmym · February 2013

You will find the build I listed is not quite a DPS powerhouse. It is no slouch, don't get me wrong, but it is more focused on CC, what with the EWP and all... I out DPS it with my Atrox consistantly, but the Vesta has the advantage of mobility, which lets me actually land my CC where and when I want it.

Edit: I worked with many, many different tac oriented setups and could not match my Atrox. The 2xHanagar Bays and elite scorps won out every time. I eventually just gave up and embraced the fact that the mobility gave me a better ability to land my CC's. That is not to say that the Vesta is a poor ship, just I was able to build my Atrox for higher DPS. I found building the Vesta for DPS cost me too many sci abliities vs the Atrox... Again, all due to the 2x hangar bays. Pets can do a ton of damage if you run them right, things like AP:B and such are godly for a carrier craft.

Edit2: I think the other half of the equation is the rommie plasma sci consoles. I run phasers on my Vesta for the Quantum Focus Phaser console, but on my Atrox I get to stack the crazy plasma damage... Fun times!

Edit3: Not quite the thread for it, but this is my DPS Atrox setup. I'm always up for sharing a good A2B build. A good tac should be able to outdps me, but nobody has managed in PuGs yet. Nobody. I only get beat when I switch to my flowcap build for Hive Onslaught, because a debuffer is more valueable in there then a DPSer, provided you actually have some DPSers about.

Experimental Romulan beam, romulan torps, omega torps
2x Adapted Maco
Maco shields = I just dont have the adapted shields yet... I'll try them out when I get them
KCB, 2xromulan plasma turrets

2xplasma torpedo consoles
4xromulan threat scaling consoles, partgen, +pla. I went with -threat... my build is pretty squishy for a carrier, I'd rather a good eng/cruiser be taking hits. I get enough heat as it is with my DPS...
Assimulated module, Zero-Point energy Conduit, Isometric Charge (Too good not to invest in if you are running high partgen. If you aren't or are opposed... this is where my build is screaming for a damage resistance console... I am *FAR* too squishy for a big ship, but I am speced for hurt, not tank...)

TT1, APB:1
EP2S1, A2B1, ... I swap out a lot on the last power... between EWP1, Aceton Beam 1, and DEM2. EWP would be the best if I could reliably land it on my Atrox... she is just too big and slow most of the time. Aceton Beam is an amazing debuff, but low DPS. DEM2 is a little less then what I'd like considering my weapons layout, but it is consistant damage... I suppose I probly should toss Eng Team 3 here and solve my squishyness issues, but I am stubborn somtimes...)
HE1, TBR1, Photonic Shockwave 1, GW3
TSS1, Scramble sensors 1, Energy Syphon 2

2x elite scorpion fighters.... so good... so good... awaiting the nerf they are soooo good...

3x technician doffs
1xgravemetric scientist
1xnew style sensor officer

The Energy syhpon combined with A2B allows me to run a fairly high aux and still have near full weapon power most of the time. The timing does take some getting used to, and it eats into the cooldown reduction of my A2B a little bit as I stall it for the power cycle, but my results speak for themselves when I parse the logs. How I try to do it is fire off ES as soon as possible, against any bloody thing. The debuff is nice but secondary to my power levels. Then, when ES is at somewhere between 45-30 seconds left on its cooldown I fire off A2B. Actually that is just one of my A2B strategies, you learn a ton of different ones when you toy with it. Another interesting one, more useful at the end of a fight when you know it isn't going to last long enough to mess with your recharge cycle is to fire of the ES, and then imediately A2B. Then you get some power back from the ES to your Aux. That works pretty well if you aren't worred about your power levels... but this build is power dependant. I want my wep power topped off as much as possible.

ferdzso0 · February 2013

weylandjuarez wrote: »

On the contrary, if you want the max DPS out of the Vesta, Aux cannons are great because you've got 2 pools of 'Weapons' power.

Put it this way, if 3 x DHCs and 3 x Turrets (or whatever) are all pulling power from 125 Weapons, some of your weapons are going to have less power available to them than if they're firing from a separate 'pool'.

If you build your Vesta right (see my previous post) you can run 125 Aux and 100+ Weapons (without any buffs) - hardly 'gimp'. Admittedly, it's a pretty niche build (and you sacrifice a lot of durability) but it provides the possibility of a Tac (APA/GDF/FOM) flying a 125 Aux Sci ship with a Cmdr Sci and possibly a Lt. Cmdr Tac - pretty damn cool if you ask me.

there is logic in this. however you lose significant tanking by taking power from shields, which means, in ESTFs you gonna die fast. and phaser is not the best dps weapon type, so again, you lose dps there too. plus the turrets only are not that high of power drainers to make this change. ofc the added skill strengths are great, with having high aux, but that wil still not make up for the dmg you take

to OP:
as you are an ENG, here is my "10k DPS Vesta" build. as you are not a tac, the tanking aspect of it, might interest you too.

weylandjuarez · February 2013

ferdzso0 wrote: »

there is logic in this. however you lose significant tanking by taking power from shields, which means, in ESTFs you gonna die fast. and phaser is not the best dps weapon type, so again, you lose dps there too. plus the turrets only are not that high of power drainers to make this change. ofc the added skill strengths are great, with having high aux, but that wil still not make up for the dmg you take

Well to be fair, the Vesta isn't a ship designed for tanking anyway - speccing into Hull HP and Shield Power will help though and I wouldn't run a build like that without at least two Field Generators.

As noted in my original post, it is squishy but a I fly a B'Rel too so I'm used to that and compensate for it - this loadout performs just great in ESTFs though and frequently pulls aggro from less optimized builds (i.e. Tac/Escorts that aren't maximizing their DPS).

Oh, and it also somewhat forces you into using the Borg Shield (for the 2-piece set bonus) which is a problem for some - a setup like this really requires you build your Captain around it - fun, but not for everyone.

ferdzso0 · February 2013

weylandjuarez wrote: »

Well to be fair, the Vesta isn't a ship designed for tanking anyway - speccing into Hull HP and Shield Power will help though and I wouldn't run a build like that without at least two Field Generators.

As noted in my original post, it is squishy but a I fly a B'Rel too so I'm used to that and compensate for it - this loadout performs just great in ESTFs though and frequently pulls aggro from less optimized builds (i.e. Tac/Escorts that aren't maximizing their DPS).

Oh, and it also somewhat forces you into using the Borg Shield (for the 2-piece set bonus) which is a problem for some - a setup like this really requires you build your Captain around it - fun, but not for everyone.

I am gonna try your setup and try to merge it to mine because it does seem promising. however I have doubts. the disruptor proc is just too good to abandon it for phaser. so dmg wise its gonna be energy drain vs disruptor proc. also dmg will be affected by sustainability, which with shields low, will be hard, however a high aux power will help actual healing (still the Vesta's tanking comes from its shield, and I have not seen any numbers how much shields will remain at lower powers)

it could work, but we shall see

meh forget it, after seeing how much dmg I would lose on the turrets alone, I dismissed this idea. its not best for maximizing dps

darkjeff · February 2013

weylandjuarez wrote: »

On the contrary, if you want the max DPS out of the Vesta, Aux cannons are great because you've got 2 pools of 'Weapons' power.

I posted my build and numbers questioning this, and asked what numbers you got out of Aux cannons on your Vesta. You haven't answered.

(With EPtW1, Efficient Traits, and assorted bonuses I never dipped below 100 weapon power during the firing cycles, from what I remember.)

Also, my Vesta was fairly tanky. I held aggro (not by choice) and tanked against a single Tac Cube and a Gateway, and both times I blew up just once, and only 1-2 seconds before we killed them. If I hadn't be overly optimistic ("I can hold out for another 1-2 seconds!") I would have survived by popping Miracle Worker.

weylandjuarez · February 2013

darkjeff wrote: »

I posted my build and numbers questioning this, and asked what numbers you got out of Aux cannons on your Vesta. You haven't answered.

(With EPtW1, Efficient Traits, and assorted bonuses I never dipped below 100 weapon power during the firing cycles, from what I remember.)

Also, my Vesta was fairly tanky. I held aggro (not by choice) and tanked against a single Tac Cube and a Gateway, and both times I blew up just once, and only 1-2 seconds before we killed them. If I hadn't be overly optimistic ("I can hold out for another 1-2 seconds!") I would have survived by popping Miracle Worker.

Sorry - must've missed your post.

At the moment it's a work-in-progress on a Sci that lacks the Warp Theorist trait so it's not going to be as high as I'd like - also I'm using lower Mk Plasma Manifolds/Jem'hadar Engines than I'd ideally be using (no efficient Boffs either).

So with all that I'm running 125 Aux/95 Weapons - with the planned alterations/enhancements I should be hitting 125/100+ with no emergency power to anything.

Each DHC drains -12 power so 3 x 12 = 36 power drain in a firing cycle. Turrets are -8 so you're looking at -24 if you're running 3. Total of 60 power drain per cycle so your last weapon in the chain is firing at 73 Weapons power if it's a turret or 77 if it's a DHC (assuming you're not overcapped on Weapons) i.e.

DHC 1: 125
DHC 2: 113 (-12)
DHC 3: 101 (-12)
Turret 1: 89 (-12)
Turret 2: 81 (-8)
Turret 3: 73 (-8)

Aux DHC 1: 125
Aux DHC 2: 113 (-12)
Aux DHC 3: 101 (-12)
Turret 1: 100
Turret 2: 92 (-8)
Turret 3: 84 (-8)

Assuming your DHCs are running off 125 Aux, the Aux power you'll have for your last DHC is 101. The minimum Weapons power you'll have for your last turret is 84 (assuming you're running at 100 Weapons).

One thing I don't know (haven't looked into it) is what order the weapons fire in for a typical 3 x DHC, 3 x Turret setup - ideally you'd want your DHCs firing first for maximum DPS - I'm not sure if there's any way to guarantee that though and if not, that would widen the gap even more.

I haven't parsed any of this (and I'm still putting the ship together) but even if the gains are small, it's still going to outperform a 125 Weapons build and you'll be running high-Aux all the time for Sci powers.

Even as the ship is now it's consistently giving great results in Elite STFs - when I have some hard numbers I'll start a new thread and post them.

ferdzso0 · February 2013

weylandjuarez wrote: »

Sorry - must've missed your post.

At the moment it's a work-in-progress on a Sci that lacks the Warp Theorist trait so it's not going to be as high as I'd like - also I'm using lower Mk Plasma Manifolds/Jem'hadar Engines than I'd ideally be using (no efficient Boffs either).

So with all that I'm running 125 Aux/95 Weapons - with the planned alterations/enhancements I should be hitting 125/100+ with no emergency power to anything.

Each DHC drains -12 power so 3 x 12 = 36 power drain in a firing cycle. Turrets are -8 so you're looking at -24 if you're running 3. Total of 60 power drain per cycle so your last weapon in the chain is firing at 73 Weapons power if it's a turret or 77 if it's a DHC (assuming you're not overcapped on Weapons) i.e.

DHC 1: 125
DHC 2: 113 (-12)
DHC 3: 101 (-12)
Turret 1: 89 (-12)
Turret 2: 81 (-8)
Turret 3: 73 (-8)

Aux DHC 1: 125
Aux DHC 2: 113 (-12)
Aux DHC 3: 101 (-12)
Turret 1: 100
Turret 2: 92 (-8)
Turret 3: 84 (-8)

Assuming your DHCs are running off 125 Aux, the Aux power you'll have for your last DHC is 101. The minimum Weapons power you'll have for your last turret is 84 (assuming you're running at 100 Weapons).

One thing I don't know (haven't looked into it) is what order the weapons fire in for a typical 3 x DHC, 3 x Turret setup - ideally you'd want your DHCs firing first for maximum DPS - I'm not sure if there's any way to guarantee that though and if not, that would widen the gap even more.

I haven't parsed any of this (and I'm still putting the ship together) but even if the gains are small, it's still going to outperform a 125 Weapons build and you'll be running high-Aux all the time for Sci powers.

Even as the ship is now it's consistently giving great results in Elite STFs - when I have some hard numbers I'll start a new thread and post them.

I did some stf runs with aux cannons and full weapon power next to it (82 was the max I got there), and generally I lost around 2k DPS in each game over my disruptors, so for dps this might still not be the best.

however it can come pretty close. if you manage to get your weapon power higher, it would help a lot. also tanking is pretty easy, as all the sci healing powers will just make you invulnareable while active with full power at aux.

if anything, that build is very easy to use, and rather simple to operate, no need to think about timing batteries right and such. I will keep experimenting though with other consoles and such, maybe I can get it up working as I want to, dealing nearly as much dps as my disruptors

coffeemike · February 2013

I forgo Phasers on my Joined Trill Engineer and usually run Anti-Protons... but for the Tac Vesta I ran something else: the plasma build.

Fore:
1 MK XII Romulan plasma DBB (Acc/Dmg), 1 MK XII Plasma DBB (Acc x2/Dmg), Omega Torp
Aft: 1 MK XII Romulan BA (Acc/Dmg), Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam, 1 Experimental Romulan Plasma BA

Consoles:
Tac- MK XII Plasma Infusers x3, Zero Point Energy console
Eng- MK XII Neutronium armor, Borg Universal Console
Sci- Theta Radiation Console, Tachyokinetic Console, MK XII rare Shield Emitter, MK XII rare Shield Regen

BOFF layout:
Lt Cmd uni is set to tac: Torp Spread 1, HYT 2, BO 3 (Very rare Efficient Saurian)
Lt. Tac: TT 1, Fire At Will 2 (Very Rare Human)
Lt. Eng: EP2S 1, Aux2SIF 1 (Very Rare Saurian)
Ens Uni is set to Sci: HE 1 (Liberated Borg Eng)
Cmd Sci: PH 1, HE2, TSS3, GW3 (Reman)

I'm also using the the MK XII Adapted MACO space set for the power and torp bonus. My fleet ran Infected STF on it and the ship did well. The low hull rate is something I can manage as an engineer.

I also decided during that STF run to see what happens when I keep my power levels all equal... it worked out. Explains why my Vesta's turn rate went to 26.1 degrees per sec.

darkjeff · February 2013

weylandjuarez wrote: »

Each DHC drains -12 power so 3 x 12 = 36 power drain in a firing cycle. Turrets are -8 so you're looking at -24 if you're running 3. Total of 60 power drain per cycle so your last weapon in the chain is firing at 73 Weapons power if it's a turret or 77 if it's a DHC (assuming you're not overcapped on Weapons) i.e.

I was actually using 1 Quad Phasers (-10 drain), 1 Phaser DBB (-10 Drain), and 1 Phaser DHC (-12).

How do you manage 125 Aux and 95 Weapons? Are your shields/engine not at 50/25 (pre-mods)?

kingstonalan · February 2013

My sci in the recon vesta is currently parsing 8500 average dps in ISE

3 Aux DHC
2 Phaser Turrets
1 Cutting beam
Elite Scorps

Weapon Power 95/60
Aux Power 125/90

You can get those power levels by having 6 points in Warp Core efficiency and potential skills... and 9 points in Weapon and Aux skills.

Adapted XII Maco Shield and Deflector (+8.8 Aux)
Jem XII Engines (+6 Weapon)

Consoles:
Tac- MK XI purple Phaser Relays x4
Eng- Zero Point, Borg Universal Console
Sci- XI blue Shield Gen x2, QFFC, Fermion

BOFF layout:
Lt Cmd Tac: TT1, CRP1, APB2 (Rom +crit chance)
Lt. Tac: TT 1, CRP1 (Human)
Lt. Eng: EP2S1, Aux2SIF1 (Efficient Saurian)
Ens Sci: HE 1 (Efficient Saurian)
Cmd Sci: HE1, PH2, TSS3, GW3 (Efficient Saurian)

darkjeff · February 2013

Looks like I sacrificed DPS for cycling EPtW1 and EPtS2. Durability over damage, because I found I had to off-tank a lot in the Vesta.

Though I'm wondering why you're using two Adapted MACO parts without any torpedoes. :P

weylandjuarez · February 2013

darkjeff wrote: »

I was actually using 1 Quad Phasers (-10 drain), 1 Phaser DBB (-10 Drain), and 1 Phaser DHC (-12).

How do you manage 125 Aux and 95 Weapons? Are your shields/engine not at 50/25 (pre-mods)?

Wep: 95/60
Shld: 55/25
Engs: 40/25
Aux: 125/90

Numbers are a combination of traits (Warp Theorist), skill point allocation (Aux/Weapons/Warp Efficiency and Potential) and gear (Borg Deflector/Shield, Mk XI Jem Engines, 2 x Plasma Manifolds, Borg Console, Romulan Zero-Point Console) - adding Efficient Boffs, the Mk XII Jem Engine and the Excelsior's Transwarp Computer would push this even higher - as would swapping out the Manifolds for Mk XII purples.

Really pushing the Efficiency should get the Weapons power to 100+ and the Shields to 60+ with the Engines at 45-50ish.

*Edit* Oh, and this is fun - if for some reason I want to run high-shields, because the Jem Engines give a variable Weapons Efficiency bonus I still get 70/25 Weapons so my 'Shields' preset looks like this:

Wep: 70/25
Shld: 84/60
Engs: 40/25
Aux: 125/90

Nice, since I'm still doing the same DPS with the Aux Cannons and just dialling back my turrets.

kepsz · February 2013

What do you guys think about my Vesta build?

This is the Surveilance Explorer (sci vesta) and i'm a Sci captain. This build is for fight while heal others in STF's.

2x Aux DHC + Quad Cannon
2x Phaser Turret XI + cutting beam

Tac consoles: 3 phaser relay XI
Eng: EPS + armour console aginst plasma weapons
Sci: Fermion modul, Field emitter, Shield Emitter Ampl., Flow capacitor, Assimilated module

I used the Adapted Maco set because of the covariant shield and the awsome deflector bonuses to the sci powers. Max shiled is 17.8K currently and i will raising it a bit more higher by changing the Flow cap to a second field emitter. So this ship is a bunker, wich shoots back.

Power levels for attacking shielded targets:
75
62
44
124

DPS with these settings:
AUX DHC's 1194DPS
Quad 747DPS - 910DPS (EPtW1)
Turret's 369DPS - 449DPS (EPtW1)
Cutting beam 641DPS - 781DPS (EPtW1)
(EPtW1 raises weapon power to ~91)

My favorite powers: Viral matrix 3, Tyken's rift 2, Hazard em. 3

You can see the build in picture here: http://prohardver.hu/dl/upc/2013-02/39613_1.png
And the BO's here: http://prohardver.hu/dl/upc/2013-02/39613_2.png
*edit: the borg engine will be replaced tomorow

ferdzso0 · February 2013

kepsz wrote: »

What do you guys think about my Vesta build?

This is the Surveilance Explorer (sci vesta) and i'm a Sci captain. This build is for fight while heal others in STF's.

2x Aux DHC + Quad Cannon
2x Phaser Turret XI + cutting beam

Tac consoles: 3 phaser relay XI
Eng: EPS + armour console aginst plasma weapons
Sci: Fermion modul, Field emitter, Shield Emitter Ampl., Flow capacitor, Assimilated module

I used the Adapted Maco set because of the covariant shield and the awsome deflector bonuses to the sci powers. Max shiled is 17.8K currently and i will raising it a bit more higher by changing the Flow cap to a second field emitter. So this ship is a bunker, wich shoots back.

Power levels for attacking shielded targets:
75
62
44
124

DPS with these settings:
AUX DHC's 1194DPS
Quad 747DPS - 910DPS (EPtW1)
Turret's 369DPS - 449DPS (EPtW1)
Cutting beam 641DPS - 781DPS (EPtW1)
(EPtW1 raises weapon power to ~91)

My favorite powers: Viral matrix 3, Tyken's rift 2, Hazard em. 3

You can see the build in picture here: http://prohardver.hu/dl/upc/2013-02/39613_1.png
And the BO's here: http://prohardver.hu/dl/upc/2013-02/39613_2.png
*edit: the borg engine will be replaced tomorow

lose the quad cannons, its a dps loss. go full aux and full weapon power. what problems this might cause, is an increase of dps, which means an increase in threat. you want threat reduction, if you want to heal (though imo a tank is better than a healer, as it will take and heal the damage, so the others wont even have to bother).
also the general universal consoles could come in handy, the tachyokinetic converter, and the zero point quantum chamber.

also imo having the borg engines is not the way to go. if you love that deflector so much, then use the adapted engines (they are really really good), but I would suggest that you use the borg consoles, for the two piece healing bonus (thats good if you waste your healling on other ships, and good if you want to tank).
also technically the adapted maco shields are good, and I do prefer them, the old maco shields are better imo (the power bonus it gives is pretty good, especially if you are going with turrets in the back)

edit: also for pve you want gravity well, and not that tyken's make the battlefield pretty rift boff power

Some Vesta Questions

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