Are you guys really trying to take shoots at the rules ? lol your guys are starting to become a bit of a joke.
Vet boffs ? seriously who cares. If someone honestly rounded themselves up 5 and choose to use them and sacrifice the allowed bonus from the eff doffs completely... let them its there dumb build. If they kept 2-3 of the effs and have 2-3 of the E boffs it will make zero difference.
What a stupid rule to complain about. lol
Personally I'd take ~+25 to targeting, evasives, weaps etc. over a nigh negligible increase in subsystem power (and the market appears to agree with me: if Vet BOffs are so useless, why are they some of the most coveted and expensive items in the game?)
I also raised my eyebrow at the permission of the RMC, an item that isn't readily available to most players and which serves as a hard counter to a number of abilities.
In any case, it sounds overall like a good ruleset to me and I wish the OP the best of luck with the tournament.
No, I do not see one of these things included as being overly powerful or some issue; however, as a matter of principle- items not easily available to all
Players need to be excluded. Preorder items and vet Boffs meet this; that whether they have a strong effect or not doesn't mean we just okay them.
"It's okay to include this or that in the game because it has a weak effect" is not the proper rationale based on what other stuff is allowed.
The exclusion of set gear from featured episodes is puzzling though the the rule is clear- all feature epi items banned. Easy. Got it. Carriers too- there weren't any carriers from the get-go, they probably need a ban.
No STF gear. Check. RMC and Vet Boffs are no longer attainable yet included? That's tantamount to handing victory to those that have it, all else equal.
Do you wish for the Classic PvP standard to be fair and balanced or simply RP Classic? Keep the inclusion/exclusion rationale and standards consistent. I think it's a great idea and a 95% start... Keep it up but put together a spec that absolutely zero players, F2P or paid are excluded from- hold inclusions and exclusions up to that standard.
Considering we're arguing over such trivial stuff I'd say we're doing pretty good so far.
.The Spanish Inquisition. TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube) /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
i find it hilarious that even this tournament isnt safe from this pathetic complaining. nothing says classic like preorder items, get over it. caring about what kind of boffs someone has, well its to late there, the ship has sailed. those rommy boffs are so overpowered its hilarious, and they stack. the vet boff is small time by comparison.
Personally I'd take ~+25 to targeting, evasives, weaps etc. over a nigh negligible increase in subsystem power (and the market appears to agree with me: if Vet BOffs are so useless, why are they some of the most coveted and expensive items in the game?)
I also raised my eyebrow at the permission of the RMC, an item that isn't readily available to most players and which serves as a hard counter to a number of abilities.
In any case, it sounds overall like a good ruleset to me and I wish the OP the best of luck with the tournament.
I wouldn't let the market choose your gear for you. Yes I will go on record as saying vet doffs are next to useless. If you follow the market you would be paying 70 mil for accx3 junk weapons. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean its better. (thought every parent taught that to there kids early)
I see your point with the RMC.... however I think you also want to remember this is "Classic" PvP, they are going for. Not "Cheap Skate" pvp. I think there is a difference between some of the early game perks, and the insane spend till you kill everything we have now... they won't die ?... you died did you ? .... Spend more money Cryptic will fix it fo ya.
I kid a bit with ya just making a point... as far as classic goes the preoder stuff does fit the bill... I never bothered to get any of it including the rmc... and wouldn't be sad to see it all removed from the rules to. lol
Mk XII didn't exist. Neither did carriers. Neither did Vet BOFFs....
I said keep the rationale for inclusion and exclusion consistent. It's clearly NOT Classic PVP yet as long as Vet Boffs and Carriers and Mk XII are in the spec.
Duh.
Who is chiming in that wasn't even here on Day One? Identify yourselves so that I can know who's talking through their rusty sheriff's badges...
Mk XII didn't exist. Neither did carriers. Neither did Vet BOFFs....
I said keep the rationale for inclusion and exclusion consistent. It's clearly NOT Classic PVP yet as long as Vet Boffs and Carriers and Mk XII are in the spec.
Duh.
the only carrier that is listed is the first klingon carrrier which was there at the launch of the game.
the only carrier that is listed is the first klingon carrrier which was there at the launch of the game.
Yes, maybe I should be more precise... There were no Fed carriers. Advantage Klink. Along with cloaking, given to Klink but not Fed until VA ships came out.
Then forever did Klink rule PvP. The only tactic was Fed balling. I remember those days and PvP was awful. The whole of STO didn't PVP for TRIBBLE anyway except a few dozen REALLY effective players. Only after F2P did PvP blow up like this and there are legions of PvPers that don't recall early PvP. Plus, the skill tree was MASSIVELY different.
There are reasons PvP has changed so much from 'Classic'... It sucked WAY more then than it does now.
It's a spec, along with a voluntary tag to confer compliance. It can be written and rewritten by Hilbert at will from Player input; and it can be done a LOT faster than trusting the Devs to fix the mechanics in the game. We can just let it ride now and do trials because I'm sure none of us really knows what a true 'white spec' ship behaves like vs. a 'classic' build- especially since it's now impossible to duplicate.
It lays out an opportunity for the players in the game to see and adhere to the Classic PVP spec, trust one another to do so, and play their hearts out. After a bunch of weeks playing around in a Classic spec, voluntarily, Hilbert can take a look and gauge the community on what we think is really worth having or not having regarding these couple of little items.
It's a 95% solution. We can test things out, weigh in, and change them in that spec. That can bring it to 100%.
We will find either that classic specced ship PvP will be fun and rewarding in whatever flavor settles, or it will be horribly unbalanced toward certain vessels and ship builds- yeah you can bring what you want but competition will force the community to gravitate to certain setups as not all are created equal.
Yes, maybe I should be more precise... There were no Fed carriers. Advantage Klink. Along with cloaking, given to Klink but not Fed until VA ships came out.
Then forever did Klink rule PvP. The only tactic was Fed balling. I remember those days and PvP was awful. The whole of STO didn't PVP for TRIBBLE anyway except a few dozen REALLY effective players. Only after F2P did PvP blow up like this and there are legions of PvPers that don't recall early PvP. Plus, the skill tree was MASSIVELY different.
There are reasons PvP has changed so much from 'Classic'... It sucked WAY more then than it does now.
It's a spec, along with a voluntary tag to confer compliance. It can be written and rewritten by Hilbert at will from Player input; and it can be done a LOT faster than trusting the Devs to fix the mechanics in the game. We can just let it ride now and do trials because I'm sure none of us really knows what a true 'white spec' ship behaves like vs. a 'classic' build- especially since it's now impossible to duplicate.
It lays out an opportunity for the players in the game to see and adhere to the Classic PVP spec, trust one another to do so, and play their hearts out. After a bunch of weeks playing around in a Classic spec, voluntarily, Hilbert can take a look and gauge the community on what we think is really worth having or not having regarding these couple of little items.
It's a 95% solution. We can test things out, weigh in, and change them in that spec. That can bring it to 100%.
We will find either that classic specced ship PvP will be fun and rewarding in whatever flavor settles, or it will be horribly unbalanced toward certain vessels and ship builds- yeah you can bring what you want but competition will force the community to gravitate to certain setups as not all are created equal.
youre making no sense.... i know all that already. the only carrier allowed in the classic i think is the klingon one....
Yes, maybe I should be more precise... There were no Fed carriers. Advantage Klink. Along with cloaking, given to Klink but not Fed until VA ships came out.
Then forever did Klink rule PvP. The only tactic was Fed balling. I remember those days and PvP was awful. The whole of STO didn't PVP for TRIBBLE anyway except a few dozen REALLY effective players. Only after F2P did PvP blow up like this and there are legions of PvPers that don't recall early PvP. Plus, the skill tree was MASSIVELY different.
There are reasons PvP has changed so much from 'Classic'... It sucked WAY more then than it does now.
I'm not sure what your experience was in 2010, but mine was quite positive playing my fed tact. Moving on to KDF, it was fun and challenging. The BoP was certainly a unique ship that was on par with the fed escorts of the time. It was even fun doing 1v1s. Not so much anymore of course. You can argue the cloak gave a distinct advantage but in many 1v1s I did it wasn't allowed. Most were either even or I would get outclassed by a better 1v1 player. Regardless they were certainly more fun than now, IMO.
Moving on to the quality of players. Cmdr/Captain/RA-BG/VA-LG popped fairly frequently I thought. A good majority in the timezone I played (late night US) provided a good set of players/teams and frequent fun pops. Sure it wasn't always fun forming a team up every match, so kind of a +1 to the f2p changes (although be nice if previous teams were auto-reformed). Did get some pretty hax teams going from that though.
CMDR was certainly the best, and then you could leave your toon @ cmdr and just pew pew. It was AWESOME. The quality of players, lack of consoles, provided a fun experience that didn't really favor one group or another. Feds had their sci ships and tricks to work with cloaks, KDF had the surprise advantage but had to refrain from being detected. It was fun!
RMC is still an available item. getting more rare and more expensive though.
the only carrier that is listed is the first klingon carrrier which was there at the launch of the game.
We went over that in the meeting and everyone agreed, I did step away for a few mins and when I came back we had Very Rare MkXII weapons and consoles after everyone agreed to Very Rare MkXI...I advocated for RMC on the basis that the Neodymium Deflector Dish, Automated Defense Turret and so on where allowed. they don't pose a huge advantage but they are not readily avalible...and should be excluded from use.
I thought the principle of the PVP Classic, was to set a lvl playing field where skill, team work, and sportsmanship would be your greatest advantage.
Allowing anyone to join with out a huge investment, If the Elitests or Others out there can't afford or don't have said equipment such as ra lvl ships or IMHO a toon with out Romulan passives xp weekend is comming up I suggest u get to work.
My point is, PvP "way back when' sucked really horribly. Both 1v1 and teams.
The Classic Spec will fail if it sucks. Some things will need excluded beyond what is even here. For one, to enhance fairness and encourage quality matches, not 75-minute healfests...
Let it not suck. Do some trials, see what the community likes and dislikes, now that the decisions are narrowed down for us already by the proposed spec.
We may find that the inclusions/exclusions list won't really matter with regard to the carrier or the pre-order items.
Vet Boffs didn't exist, neither did MK XII, so leave them out.
Pre-order items aren't attainable by everyone, so leave them out, whether they suck or not isn't the issue. Strict adherence to a universally obtainable spec encourages more people to buy into it. And maybe it'll put some demand back on our MK X purple gear...
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
We went over that in the meeting and everyone agreed, I did step away for a few mins and when I came back we had Very Rare MkXII weapons and consoles after everyone agreed to Very Rare MkXI...I advocated for RMC on the basis that the Neodymium Deflector Dish, Automated Defense Turret and so on where allowed. they don't pose a huge advantage but they are not readily avalible...and should be excluded from use.
I thought the principle of the PVP Classic, was to set a lvl playing field where skill, team work, and sportsmanship would be your greatest advantage.
Allowing anyone to join with out a huge investment, If the Elitests or Others out there can't afford or don't have said equipment such as ra lvl ships or IMHO a toon with out Romulan passives xp weekend is comming up I suggest u get to work.
For simplicity it was agreed MK XII would be okay.
I'm certainly a fan of MK XI R/VR (consoles/weapons)/No Rep Passives but for simplicity and to make the event more open, both were allowed.
That said, maybe those with alts would consider making teams for random privates? For Fun! No passives, doffs, MK XII anything, ect. Just throwing it out there. Saturday is the next bootcamp so maybe some will bite on the idea and we can discuss it more then.
That said, maybe those with alts would consider making teams for random privates? For Fun! No passives, doffs, MK XII anything, ect. Just throwing it out there. Saturday is the next bootcamp so maybe some will bite on the idea and we can discuss it more then.
I am totaly in on that let me know when you want to classically pew
My point was that because this tournament was in an attempt to promote a fair and even match between players, because this was a f2p conversion bonus, (season 5-6ish), it would only be fair to exclude these from this tournament.
I understand Hilbert's point about it possibly being complicated to switch these boffs around for traditional ones, but these boffs are extremely rare AND extremely expensive.
With all of the other high level gear/items/ships that are excluded from the tournament for the "Classic" pvp, to make it fair for everyone, just for this tournament, exclude these boffs. Im fine with everything else like it is.
This link shows what they do, and in the right hands, they have a lot of potential.
also as hilbert said, the vet boffs are humans, so if people prefer the vet boffs, the humans would be an easy replacement, or even the efficient boffs.
Mk XII didn't exist. Neither did carriers. Neither did Vet BOFFs....
I said keep the rationale for inclusion and exclusion consistent. It's clearly NOT Classic PVP yet as long as Vet Boffs and Carriers and Mk XII are in the spec.
Duh.
Who is chiming in that wasn't even here on Day One? Identify yourselves so that I can know who's talking through their rusty sheriff's badges...
We had a meeting and choices were made. The meeting was noted in advanced, in a open TS where anyone could attend. If you don't like one of the rules try having some class and making a argument verse being a complete ....
Vet boffs should be banned but the rest is okay as it keeps the door open for newer players.
I can't say if the Vo'Quv was around from day 1 but ....
You should add a note on whether or not the MVAM escort (minus console) is allowed. Given that the mirror ships are allowed, I'd *think* that it would be, but clarification would be good.
Also good for clarification is what mission specific story rewards are allowed and not allowed. Subspace modulator vs efficient engines, and that sort of thing.
You should add a note on whether or not the MVAM escort (minus console) is allowed. Given that the mirror ships are allowed, I'd *think* that it would be, but clarification would be good.
Also good for clarification is what mission specific story rewards are allowed and not allowed. Subspace modulator vs efficient engines, and that sort of thing.
MVAE isn't, nor is subspace modulator, eff engins are. I base this off the original link.
The MVAE isn't listed as a specific allowed ship, all others aren't.
Subspace modulator is an FE reward, the eff engines aren't they're original storymission rewards.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Why isn't the MVAM listed though? I mean minus the console it's tier equal to the Advanced Escort, just with a different boff layout. Which is essentially what the mirror ships are.
Why isn't the MVAM listed though? I mean minus the console it's tier equal to the Advanced Escort, just with a different boff layout. Which is essentially what the mirror ships are.
I wasn't privy to that process, but based on what's been written the mirrior ships were allowed since generally they're cosmetic only changes (Fed side anyway) and as you've pointed out there's a Boff layout change to the MVAM. Also, it's a C-Store/Zen-Store ship.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
The KDF side aren't cosmetic changes, and the Fed side are only 'technically' cosmetic changes- the stats are different between mirror ships due to the ship type chaning- a mirror recon has the same stats as a normal DSSV and visa versa. While yes, the MVAM is a C-store ship, the same could be said of all the mirror vessels, being only available from lock boxes.
Why isn't the MVAM listed though? I mean minus the console it's tier equal to the Advanced Escort, just with a different boff layout. Which is essentially what the mirror ships are.
Becasue it and all the other bastardised boff arrangement where the beginning of the end of good pvp in this game. It is NOT a classic ship... the mvam was launched well after the time the organizers are shooting for.
If you want a Lt Cmd sci slot in classic pvp.... fly a science ship.
The KDF side aren't cosmetic changes, and the Fed side are only 'technically' cosmetic changes- the stats are different between mirror ships due to the ship type chaning- a mirror recon has the same stats as a normal DSSV and visa versa. While yes, the MVAM is a C-store ship, the same could be said of all the mirror vessels, being only available from lock boxes.
The mirror vessels are the exact same specs as the old ships just in reverse. They where includes so players that don't have the old ships don't have to drop 100k+ dilithium to compete. If they want a Deep Space Sci they can purchase the Mirror Recon for 100k EC and jump right into the fun.
The mirror ships could be excluded completely if people think a reverse boff setup is going to brake the "classic" feel... but a ton of people are not going to compete cause they aren't going to drop 2 months of Dithium on an alt to aquire a ship that is unusable for anything but the FUN classic matches.
Comments
Personally I'd take ~+25 to targeting, evasives, weaps etc. over a nigh negligible increase in subsystem power (and the market appears to agree with me: if Vet BOffs are so useless, why are they some of the most coveted and expensive items in the game?)
I also raised my eyebrow at the permission of the RMC, an item that isn't readily available to most players and which serves as a hard counter to a number of abilities.
In any case, it sounds overall like a good ruleset to me and I wish the OP the best of luck with the tournament.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=265209&highlight=sabrefyre
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=261515&highlight=sabrefyre
Delta - Recluse
Omega - Scimitar
Alpha - MVAM
Beta - Wells
Players need to be excluded. Preorder items and vet Boffs meet this; that whether they have a strong effect or not doesn't mean we just okay them.
"It's okay to include this or that in the game because it has a weak effect" is not the proper rationale based on what other stuff is allowed.
The exclusion of set gear from featured episodes is puzzling though the the rule is clear- all feature epi items banned. Easy. Got it. Carriers too- there weren't any carriers from the get-go, they probably need a ban.
No STF gear. Check. RMC and Vet Boffs are no longer attainable yet included? That's tantamount to handing victory to those that have it, all else equal.
Do you wish for the Classic PvP standard to be fair and balanced or simply RP Classic? Keep the inclusion/exclusion rationale and standards consistent. I think it's a great idea and a 95% start... Keep it up but put together a spec that absolutely zero players, F2P or paid are excluded from- hold inclusions and exclusions up to that standard.
TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube)
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
? what do these have to do with this?
i thought the battle group atlantis pvp tourny fell apart because cryptic basically took the game and shook it all to hell TRIBBLE everything up.
how was cryptics lack of consideration on player held tournys related all to this?
the second tourny you listed didnt seem to have a "set of rules" posted and was i thought mostly a feeler to get the ideas for the rules.
again... how are these related to the classic tourny theyre proposing?
Do you even Science Bro?
I wouldn't let the market choose your gear for you. Yes I will go on record as saying vet doffs are next to useless. If you follow the market you would be paying 70 mil for accx3 junk weapons. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean its better. (thought every parent taught that to there kids early)
I see your point with the RMC.... however I think you also want to remember this is "Classic" PvP, they are going for. Not "Cheap Skate" pvp. I think there is a difference between some of the early game perks, and the insane spend till you kill everything we have now... they won't die ?... you died did you ? .... Spend more money Cryptic will fix it fo ya.
I kid a bit with ya just making a point... as far as classic goes the preoder stuff does fit the bill... I never bothered to get any of it including the rmc... and wouldn't be sad to see it all removed from the rules to.
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
I said keep the rationale for inclusion and exclusion consistent. It's clearly NOT Classic PVP yet as long as Vet Boffs and Carriers and Mk XII are in the spec.
Duh.
Who is chiming in that wasn't even here on Day One? Identify yourselves so that I can know who's talking through their rusty sheriff's badges...
the only carrier that is listed is the first klingon carrrier which was there at the launch of the game.
Do you even Science Bro?
And if commandodan did play the game since beta he would have known that, but he doesnt? Somethings going on here, or is it something i smell?
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Yes, maybe I should be more precise... There were no Fed carriers. Advantage Klink. Along with cloaking, given to Klink but not Fed until VA ships came out.
Then forever did Klink rule PvP. The only tactic was Fed balling. I remember those days and PvP was awful. The whole of STO didn't PVP for TRIBBLE anyway except a few dozen REALLY effective players. Only after F2P did PvP blow up like this and there are legions of PvPers that don't recall early PvP. Plus, the skill tree was MASSIVELY different.
There are reasons PvP has changed so much from 'Classic'... It sucked WAY more then than it does now.
It's a spec, along with a voluntary tag to confer compliance. It can be written and rewritten by Hilbert at will from Player input; and it can be done a LOT faster than trusting the Devs to fix the mechanics in the game. We can just let it ride now and do trials because I'm sure none of us really knows what a true 'white spec' ship behaves like vs. a 'classic' build- especially since it's now impossible to duplicate.
It lays out an opportunity for the players in the game to see and adhere to the Classic PVP spec, trust one another to do so, and play their hearts out. After a bunch of weeks playing around in a Classic spec, voluntarily, Hilbert can take a look and gauge the community on what we think is really worth having or not having regarding these couple of little items.
It's a 95% solution. We can test things out, weigh in, and change them in that spec. That can bring it to 100%.
We will find either that classic specced ship PvP will be fun and rewarding in whatever flavor settles, or it will be horribly unbalanced toward certain vessels and ship builds- yeah you can bring what you want but competition will force the community to gravitate to certain setups as not all are created equal.
youre making no sense.... i know all that already. the only carrier allowed in the classic i think is the klingon one....
Do you even Science Bro?
I'm not sure what your experience was in 2010, but mine was quite positive playing my fed tact. Moving on to KDF, it was fun and challenging. The BoP was certainly a unique ship that was on par with the fed escorts of the time. It was even fun doing 1v1s. Not so much anymore of course. You can argue the cloak gave a distinct advantage but in many 1v1s I did it wasn't allowed. Most were either even or I would get outclassed by a better 1v1 player. Regardless they were certainly more fun than now, IMO.
Moving on to the quality of players. Cmdr/Captain/RA-BG/VA-LG popped fairly frequently I thought. A good majority in the timezone I played (late night US) provided a good set of players/teams and frequent fun pops. Sure it wasn't always fun forming a team up every match, so kind of a +1 to the f2p changes (although be nice if previous teams were auto-reformed). Did get some pretty hax teams going from that though.
CMDR was certainly the best, and then you could leave your toon @ cmdr and just pew pew. It was AWESOME. The quality of players, lack of consoles, provided a fun experience that didn't really favor one group or another. Feds had their sci ships and tricks to work with cloaks, KDF had the surprise advantage but had to refrain from being detected. It was fun!
RMC is still an available item. getting more rare and more expensive though.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We went over that in the meeting and everyone agreed, I did step away for a few mins and when I came back we had Very Rare MkXII weapons and consoles after everyone agreed to Very Rare MkXI...I advocated for RMC on the basis that the Neodymium Deflector Dish, Automated Defense Turret and so on where allowed. they don't pose a huge advantage but they are not readily avalible...and should be excluded from use.
I thought the principle of the PVP Classic, was to set a lvl playing field where skill, team work, and sportsmanship would be your greatest advantage.
Allowing anyone to join with out a huge investment, If the Elitests or Others out there can't afford or don't have said equipment such as ra lvl ships or IMHO a toon with out Romulan passives xp weekend is comming up I suggest u get to work.
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
My point is, PvP "way back when' sucked really horribly. Both 1v1 and teams.
The Classic Spec will fail if it sucks. Some things will need excluded beyond what is even here. For one, to enhance fairness and encourage quality matches, not 75-minute healfests...
Let it not suck. Do some trials, see what the community likes and dislikes, now that the decisions are narrowed down for us already by the proposed spec.
We may find that the inclusions/exclusions list won't really matter with regard to the carrier or the pre-order items.
Vet Boffs didn't exist, neither did MK XII, so leave them out.
Pre-order items aren't attainable by everyone, so leave them out, whether they suck or not isn't the issue. Strict adherence to a universally obtainable spec encourages more people to buy into it. And maybe it'll put some demand back on our MK X purple gear...
Also, Doff mission bonuses aren't explicitly excluded.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
For simplicity it was agreed MK XII would be okay.
I'm certainly a fan of MK XI R/VR (consoles/weapons)/No Rep Passives but for simplicity and to make the event more open, both were allowed.
That said, maybe those with alts would consider making teams for random privates? For Fun! No passives, doffs, MK XII anything, ect. Just throwing it out there. Saturday is the next bootcamp so maybe some will bite on the idea and we can discuss it more then.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
I am totaly in on that let me know when you want to classically pew
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
I understand Hilbert's point about it possibly being complicated to switch these boffs around for traditional ones, but these boffs are extremely rare AND extremely expensive.
With all of the other high level gear/items/ships that are excluded from the tournament for the "Classic" pvp, to make it fair for everyone, just for this tournament, exclude these boffs. Im fine with everything else like it is.
This link shows what they do, and in the right hands, they have a lot of potential.
also as hilbert said, the vet boffs are humans, so if people prefer the vet boffs, the humans would be an easy replacement, or even the efficient boffs.
http://www.stowiki.org/Trait:_Space_Warfare_Specialist/boff
We had a meeting and choices were made. The meeting was noted in advanced, in a open TS where anyone could attend. If you don't like one of the rules try having some class and making a argument verse being a complete ....
Vet boffs should be banned but the rest is okay as it keeps the door open for newer players.
I can't say if the Vo'Quv was around from day 1 but ....
http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/07/27/star-trek-online-unveils-cloaking-klingon-warship-voquv-class/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGf8SBLA7wQ
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Also good for clarification is what mission specific story rewards are allowed and not allowed. Subspace modulator vs efficient engines, and that sort of thing.
MVAE isn't, nor is subspace modulator, eff engins are. I base this off the original link.
The MVAE isn't listed as a specific allowed ship, all others aren't.
Subspace modulator is an FE reward, the eff engines aren't they're original storymission rewards.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I wasn't privy to that process, but based on what's been written the mirrior ships were allowed since generally they're cosmetic only changes (Fed side anyway) and as you've pointed out there's a Boff layout change to the MVAM. Also, it's a C-Store/Zen-Store ship.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Becasue it and all the other bastardised boff arrangement where the beginning of the end of good pvp in this game. It is NOT a classic ship... the mvam was launched well after the time the organizers are shooting for.
If you want a Lt Cmd sci slot in classic pvp.... fly a science ship.
The mirror vessels are the exact same specs as the old ships just in reverse. They where includes so players that don't have the old ships don't have to drop 100k+ dilithium to compete. If they want a Deep Space Sci they can purchase the Mirror Recon for 100k EC and jump right into the fun.
The mirror ships could be excluded completely if people think a reverse boff setup is going to brake the "classic" feel... but a ton of people are not going to compete cause they aren't going to drop 2 months of Dithium on an alt to aquire a ship that is unusable for anything but the FUN classic matches.