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why the shield nerf???

romeowhiskey4romeowhiskey4 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
Again...another system nerfed... it was fine the way it was without you having to 'drastically reduce it's resistance' m on about the elite shields btw... No need at all.... Cost me enough to buy them... you really know how to drive people away PW
Post edited by romeowhiskey4 on
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Comments

  • haravikkharavikk Member Posts: 278
    edited January 2013
    My fleet doesn't have access to them yet I don't think; what were the stats before and after (and the cost)?
  • romeowhiskey4romeowhiskey4 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I cant remember their previous stats... but cost is 65,000 fc and 30,000 dil. for a casual player that is a LOT!
  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited January 2013
    Again...another system nerfed... it was fine the way it was without you having to 'drastically reduce it's resistance' m on about the elite shields btw... No need at all.... Cost me enough to buy them... you really know how to drive people away PW

    It was not fine the way it was. Before the change, the adaptations proc of the Elite Fleet shields meant that after a prolonged engagement, such as with the Borg, the shield resists eventually would stack up to 41% (1 - (1 - .1)^5 = 41%.)

    Add that to the shield resists you gain from Emergency Power to Shields (anywhere from 19% to 30%) and you are getting close to the cap of 75% resistance, which means nothing would get through those Fleet Shields.

    In both PVE and PVP, that was incredibly broken, it makes Elite STF's (which are already really easy) a pushover and it made killing another player's ship in PVP next to impossible.

    So no, it was not fine the way it was. This changed was needed and I personally like it.
  • romeowhiskey4romeowhiskey4 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Well, there you have the problem... if you don't like what a shield does, then match it... even the score a bit instead of reducing the equipment's worth... make enemies stronger, more intelligent...there are better ways than making things seem worthless...

    It's all aimed at pvp players now though... those diie hard players that pimp their ships miropoint by micropoint, finetuing it because they have the time...some of us want to come on for a couple of hours every couple of days and play... it;s a great stress reliever. Hell, I still died with this shield! So I'm happy you like it...but I'm sure the majority of people don't.

    But when has PW ever listened to the masses?
  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited January 2013
    Well, there you have the problem... if you don't like what a shield does, then match it... even the score a bit instead of reducing the equipment's worth... make enemies stronger, more intelligent...there are better ways than making things seem worthless...

    It's all aimed at pvp players now though... those diie hard players that pimp their ships miropoint by micropoint, finetuing it because they have the time...some of us want to come on for a couple of hours every couple of days and play... it;s a great stress reliever. Hell, I still died with this shield! So I'm happy you like it...but I'm sure the majority of people don't.

    But when has PW ever listened to the masses?

    Last I checked, the Fleet Shields aren't worthless now. They are just a slightly better alternative to the Maco and KHG shields.

    And also last I checked, PW did listen to the masses (in my following examples, the Fed players) more than they listened to a minority (aka, PVP'ers or in the case of these examples, the KDF)

    Fed players talk about not having a carrier to compete with the Vo'quv? You got the Atrox.

    Fed players talk about not having a Flight Deck Cruiser? Here, we'll one up that and give you the Armitage Escort Carrier. Hell, even better, we'll also give you the Vesta.

    Fed players talk about the OP **** the KDF has? Well now you have some of it too. And most likely, you'll get even more when the Dominion Lock Box comes out (and before you say "Well that's a lottery or something", you can obtain them at the exchange).

    KDF players say "We don't have a 5 console Raptor" to compete with the Fleet Defiant or Fleet Advanced Escort? Nothing happened.
  • tcostiktcostik Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Well, there you have the problem... if you don't like what a shield does, then match it... even the score a bit instead of reducing the equipment's worth... make enemies stronger, more intelligent...there are better ways than making things seem worthless...

    It's all aimed at pvp players now though... those diie hard players that pimp their ships miropoint by micropoint, finetuing it because they have the time...some of us want to come on for a couple of hours every couple of days and play... it;s a great stress reliever. Hell, I still died with this shield! So I'm happy you like it...but I'm sure the majority of people don't.

    But when has PW ever listened to the masses?


    And you should still die with this shield. Just because it's an elite fleet shield, doesn't meant it should be impervious to anything. I'm actually happy about the change. Now I know exactly what it does, and, it's a resist, instead of a chance. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the change.
  • romeowhiskey4romeowhiskey4 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    tcostik wrote: »
    And you should still die with this shield. Just because it's an elite fleet shield, doesn't meant it should be impervious to anything. I'm actually happy about the change. Now I know exactly what it does, and, it's a resist, instead of a chance. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the change.

    It's out of order! They SHOULD listen to the KDF side...they pay just as much as Feds do... Klingon ships all look the same...no imagination..no flare.... and it's not right! More should be put into the KDF side but it's not... why???

    Do they ever answer this? Is KDF zen not worth as much as Fed zen? It needs a dedicated team and more answers to run this game.
  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited January 2013
    It's out of order! They SHOULD listen to the KDF side...they pay just as much as Feds do... Klingon ships all look the same...no imagination..no flare.... and it's not right! More should be put into the KDF side but it's not... why???

    Do they ever answer this? Is KDF zen not worth as much as Fed zen? It needs a dedicated team and more answers to run this game.

    According to a developer many months ago (not too sure how accurate this now) the KDF playerbase only accounted for 18% of the total playerbase, so they felt not enough people play the KDF to justify developing it more.

    Which is complete horse manure, hopefully the promises they made for KDF content in Season 8 comes to fruition.
  • bi9tbi9t Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Dont waste your money on the shields.

    Also, stop trying to upgrade you ship, PvE is too easy. This essentially is the outcome of this thread and the game in general.
  • bones1970bones1970 Member Posts: 953 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Well, there you have the problem... if you don't like what a shield does, then match it... even the score a bit instead of reducing the equipment's worth... make enemies stronger, more intelligent...there are better ways than making things seem worthless...

    It's all aimed at pvp players now though... those diie hard players that pimp their ships miropoint by micropoint, finetuing it because they have the time...some of us want to come on for a couple of hours every couple of days and play... it;s a great stress reliever. Hell, I still died with this shield! So I'm happy you like it...but I'm sure the majority of people don't.

    But when has PW ever listened to the masses?

    So make enemies stronger is your solution ??
    Make the game aimed only at the players that have a fleet base science at tier 4 and higher.
    Majority of players don't have it, so you are the minority.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Well, there you have the problem... if you don't like what a shield does, then match it... even the score a bit instead of reducing the equipment's worth... make enemies stronger, more intelligent...there are better ways than making things seem worthless...
    Oh yes, adjust everything else. One thing is too strong, so make everything stronger... because walking back the one thing doesn't make any sense.
    /sarcasm

    Anyway, yeah, we've been begging for smarter enemies instead of just bigger inflated HP gasbags with more outrageous single damage attacks. We all want it, we'll keep asking, but it doesn't have anything to do with one shield's resists being too strong.
    It's all aimed at pvp players now though... those diie hard players that pimp their ships miropoint by micropoint, finetuing it because they have the time...some of us want to come on for a couple of hours every couple of days and play... it;s a great stress reliever. Hell, I still died with this shield! So I'm happy you like it...but I'm sure the majority of people don't.

    But when has PW ever listened to the masses?
    Lol, ok yeah, PW catering to PvPers again, that's it.

    /sarcasm on
    That's why STO gets new PvP maps all the time, territory control, rankings, and fleet marks for PvP.
    /sarcasm off

    All Cryptic does is listen to the masses. It's the reason PvE, with a few exceptions, can be completed in a shuttle.

    You're angry that your crutch has been taken away. You seem to want to come on for a couple of hours every couple of days and still be able to complete the "Elite" content, do you see where this breaks down logically?

    If you really only play a half a dozen hours per week you should be angry on behalf of your fleet, because they unlocked the shield for you. Doesn't sound like you did a whole lot to get it besides pony up the fc and dil.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It's out of order! They SHOULD listen to the KDF side...they pay just as much as Feds do... Klingon ships all look the same...no imagination..no flare.... and it's not right! More should be put into the KDF side but it's not... why???

    Do they ever answer this? Is KDF zen not worth as much as Fed zen? It needs a dedicated team and more answers to run this game.

    no they don't pay (out) as much...only 17% actively play KDF or so (might be wrong on the number, but it is still very low)

    on the other hand, i totally agree with you that kdf should get more ships. The KDF side with all the races attached to it have a larger possible spectrum of ship designs (in theory) than Starfleet.
    Go pro or go home
  • romeowhiskey4romeowhiskey4 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    redricky wrote: »
    Oh yes, adjust everything else. One thing is too strong, so make everything stronger... because walking back the one thing doesn't make any sense.
    /sarcasm

    Anyway, yeah, we've been begging for smarter enemies instead of just bigger inflated HP gasbags with more outrageous single damage attacks. We all want it, we'll keep asking, but it doesn't have anything to do with one shield's resists being too strong.


    Lol, ok yeah, PW catering to PvPers again, that's it.

    /sarcasm on
    That's why STO gets new PvP maps all the time, territory control, rankings, and fleet marks for PvP.
    /sarcasm off

    All Cryptic does is listen to the masses. It's the reason PvE, with a few exceptions, can be completed in a shuttle.

    You're angry that your crutch has been taken away. You seem to want to come on for a couple of hours every couple of days and still be able to complete the "Elite" content, do you see where this breaks down logically?

    If you really only play a half a dozen hours per week you should be angry on behalf of your fleet, because they unlocked the shield for you. Doesn't sound like you did a whole lot to get it besides pony up the fc and dil.



    Meh...what do you know... It;s people like me that will keep this game alive... The new boys on the block that want to play it casually... if we all leave then you have nothing left, the funds dry up and the game disappears. Maybe PW should treat us with a little more courtesy. Maybe you shouldn't judge people on what they do to get the equipment. I know what I donated, and I know I have donated more than the majority. But hey... what do I know...? I just know that every patch something gets nerfed. No consistency...

    And crutch??? to be honest it made matches more interesting... if you want to fight a pvp and blow someone up in 5 seconds then...well.. ego feeding much. so maybe a nice strong shield where someone lasts more than 10 seconds might be more fun... but not for folk like the pro's...they want to have their little heads made bigger 'I blew you up in 5 seconds. you're useless'

    so I play pve more than pvp because I don't have time for such things like fine tuning my machine. so maybe...just maybe... i wanted a shield that could withstand the odd attack from a souped up all purple superduper ship... at least gives us a fighting chance...
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    dgmental little so n so ain;t ya
    So... my fleet are responsible for nerfing it? Nah... I don;t mean to be picky but all I seem to hear online is complaints about how thy have 'nerfed this and nerfed that' without much consultation.

    Ju
    Do you know what "on behalf of" means? No, I wasn't implying that your fleet was responsible for nerfing it. I was saying that you play casually and and got access to this shield because of the work of others, so you shouldn't be that worked up about it being changed. Easy come, easy go.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • originpioriginpi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    cliftona91 wrote: »
    It was not fine the way it was. Before the change, the adaptations proc of the Elite Fleet shields meant that after a prolonged engagement, such as with the Borg, the shield resists eventually would stack up to 41% (1 - (1 - .1)^5 = 41%.)

    Add that to the shield resists you gain from Emergency Power to Shields (anywhere from 19% to 30%) and you are getting close to the cap of 75% resistance, which means nothing would get through those Fleet Shields.

    In both PVE and PVP, that was incredibly broken, it makes Elite STF's (which are already really easy) a pushover and it made killing another player's ship in PVP next to impossible.

    So no, it was not fine the way it was. This changed was needed and I personally like it.

    (Emphasis Mine)

    Clearly you have not played with the shield before or after. When a 'charge' gets added, it lasts 30 seconds, and does not refresh other charges. So in Elite Space STFs in my escort I have never seen the full 5 charges, as they are running out regularly. This was totally fine with the old system, but the new system nerfs those 2 or 3 charges too much.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Meh...what do you know... It;s people like me that will keep this game alive... The new boys on the block that want to play it casually... if we all leave then you have nothing left, the funds dry up and the game disappears.
    Not as long as respecs cost money.
    Maybe PW should treat us with a little more courtesy. Maybe you shouldn't judge people on what they do to get the equipment.
    I'm not judging you on what you do to get equipment, I'm judging you on your entitled , ill-informed forum post.
    I know what I donated, and I know I have donated more than the majority.
    At a "couple hours every couple days" no, you did not contribute much towards unlocking those shields.
    But hey... what do I know...? I just know that every patch something gets nerfed. No consistency...
    Actually, if something gets nerfed every patch, that's consistent.

    And crutch??? to be honest it made matches more interesting... if you want to fight a pvp and blow someone up in 5 seconds then...well.. ego feeding much. so maybe a nice strong shield where someone lasts more than 10 seconds might be more fun... but not for folk like the pro's...they want to have their little heads made bigger 'I blew you up in 5 seconds. you're useless'

    so I play pve more than pvp because I don't have time for such things like fine tuning my machine. so maybe...just maybe... i wanted a shield that could withstand the odd attack from a souped up all purple superduper ship... at least gives us a fighting chance...
    I only kill people in 5 seconds (less, actually, if they're not dead in 1.5 seconds they probably get to live) on my BoP alpha toon. I tried to link STO Gateway but it doesn't work. It has 2 pieces of purple mk X. Nothing else, no rep gear, no sets. Dying in 5 seconds has little to do with gear and more to do with active abilities, which points back to player skill.

    You play PvE more than PvP because you're casual, I get that, but don't be angry when those who are not casual identify an overperforming mechanic you've been using to compensate for your lack of a desire to learn how to play.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • romeowhiskey4romeowhiskey4 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    redricky wrote: »

    You play PvE more than PvP because you're casual, I get that, but don't be angry when those who are not casual identify an overperforming mechanic you've been using to compensate for your lack of a desire to learn how to play.

    Then explain please for us unenlightened people...How can someone learn to play if they keep changing the rules?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Then explain please for us unenlightened people...How can someone learn to play if they keep changing the rules?
    It's not that big a change....

    I was here for the weekly mandatory respeccs... THAT was confusing. This is barely noticable by comparison.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • romeowhiskey4romeowhiskey4 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It's not that big a change....

    I was here for the weekly mandatory respeccs... THAT was confusing. This is barely noticable by comparison.

    Weekly respec's?? Oh my god I would have gone INSANE! From that perspective yeah!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Weekly respec's?? Oh my god I would have gone INSANE! From that perspective yeah!
    Several seasons ago they completely changed the entire player skill tree. THE ENTIRE TREE!!! But it wasn't just a single patch and be done. They tweaked it a few times over the next few weeks, and each time you had to redo it.

    What would happen is that after the patch you would login and a message would pop up telling you you needed to spend your skill points.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    cliftona91 wrote: »
    It was not fine the way it was. Before the change, the adaptations proc of the Elite Fleet shields meant that after a prolonged engagement, such as with the Borg, the shield resists eventually would stack up to 41% (1 - (1 - .1)^5 = 41%.)

    Add that to the shield resists you gain from Emergency Power to Shields (anywhere from 19% to 30%) and you are getting close to the cap of 75% resistance, which means nothing would get through those Fleet Shields.

    In both PVE and PVP, that was incredibly broken, it makes Elite STF's (which are already really easy) a pushover and it made killing another player's ship in PVP next to impossible.

    So no, it was not fine the way it was. This changed was needed and I personally like it.

    I actually found fights between elite shield users very intense and fun.

    Why? You had to take the SOB out in ways other than through direct damage. In short, people had to THINK and use their abilities and side effects.


    But hey, the whining masses and brainless devs choose to have a game where the only thing that matters is pure raw damage and whoever has the best one-key-spam macro wins.

    so be it.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    this thread made me giggle.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • justleroyjustleroy Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ... brainless devs ...

    Build your own MMOG. Make sure it is balanced and as bug free as possible. Maintain that game with bug and balance fixes while adding enough content to keep the game relevant. Keep as much of your player-base as happy as possible.

    Oh, yeah. Make your game free to play.

    Enjoy your new career as a brainless dev.
    - Only a fool fights in a burning house.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    justleroy wrote: »
    Build your own MMOG. Make sure it is balanced and as bug free as possible. Maintain that game with bug and balance fixes while adding enough content to keep the game relevant. Keep as much of your player-base as happy as possible.

    Oh, yeah. Make your game free to play.

    Enjoy your new career as a brainless dev.

    well the irony is.... that the devs do seem fairly brainless the way they keep letting game breaking bugs/items/issues into the game in the first place.


    these shields would never have needed tweeking in the first place if they had been TESTED on their test server.... afterall... thats why its a test server right?


    ya know... to test things?
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • mrtsheadmrtshead Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    And crutch??? to be honest it made matches more interesting... if you want to fight a pvp and blow someone up in 5 seconds then...well.. ego feeding much. so maybe a nice strong shield where someone lasts more than 10 seconds might be more fun... but not for folk like the pro's...they want to have their little heads made bigger 'I blew you up in 5 seconds. you're useless'

    so I play pve more than pvp because I don't have time for such things like fine tuning my machine. so maybe...just maybe... i wanted a shield that could withstand the odd attack from a souped up all purple superduper ship... at least gives us a fighting chance...

    First of all, longer matches =/= automatically mean 'more interesting' - I don't care how 'intense' the fight is - a 0-0 tie still sucks. Sorry soccer fans.

    Second, the idea that the person who blows you up in 5 seconds (or whatever) is doing it for an ego trip is almost entirely in your head - yes, there are some players who want simply to pwn newbs - they are basically bullies, and they suck. The majority of PVPers, however, want a FIGHT, not a roflstomping. Your assumption that anyone that crushes you is some kind of e-peen waver is probably more about you projecting your own self-criticism of your skill on to other players.

    Finally, the 'it gives us a fighting chance' argument is totally illogical - pretty much by definition the 'souped up all purple superduper ship' is going to be running the same shields, with better weapons, better consoles, better boff skills, and better player skill. At best for you, this is a wash, and you end up pretty much back where you started. Typically, however, the better player is going to know both how to maximize the advantage, AND how to circumvent it, so you still end up getting rolled despite your super-shield, only now your own return fire is even less effective than it was before. In short, this type of imbalance favors the expert, not the novice.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    well the irony is.... that the devs do seem fairly brainless the way they keep letting game breaking bugs/items/issues into the game in the first place.


    these shields would never have needed tweeking in the first place if they had been TESTED on their test server.... afterall... thats why its a test server right?


    ya know... to test things?
    Try it and see how easy it really is. :/
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Try it and see how easy it really is. :/

    Try to how easy what is? How easy it is to put something on the test server to test it before releasing it?

    I'd say that's a lot easier/as easy as just throwing it live without knowing what'll happen until the player base complains.


    If its put on the test server and actually tested the community backlash wouldn't be as bad.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    Try to how easy what is? How easy it is to put something on the test server to test it before releasing it?

    I'd say that's a lot easier/as easy as just throwing it live without knowing what'll happen until the player base complains.


    If its put on the test server and actually tested the community backlash wouldn't be as bad.
    No. Coding something and testing it to find the bugs/balance issues. It's not as simple as checking to see if it works. You have to look at how WELL it works and in a variety of scenarios too.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Mark, you obviously don't know the history these devs have of putting absolutely broken and borked things into the live server even AFTER test server players tell them how retardedly borked and broken it is.


    Prime example is the pet AI. It used to have just one tiny, lil issue that glitched them. In one patch they fully broke them so badly pets just twitched where they were launched without moving or firing.

    This was shown to them in forums, bug reports even youtube videos and what did they do? They launched it to live.

    Took them like 2 weeks of trying to fix them until for some incredible miracle they were fixed. They worked BEAUTIFULLY. Perfect. Awesome. Pets responded to carrier commands AND they flew and fought eerily smart.

    ...and then one of these geniuses decided to 'add' a minor, unasked for, un-needed and utterly POINTLESS cosmetic thing: To have pets fly in a formation when under recall order rather than fly in a gaggle chasing the carrier.

    ... and that broke and borked the pets again. Horribly. Completely. The AI was fubard.

    What did they do then? They gave up trying to fix them or just didnt give a rat's behind and simply removed the AI and replaced it with the current idiotic version we have now...which is basically a copy/paste of the drone AI (fighter/frigate AI was different from drone AI), slapped on a band-aid on it and sent it to live.

    Despite the furor in the forums they decided to raise a palm at us and tell us to go sit on our thumbs and spin for all they cared.

    Pet AI now is utterly pathetic compared to the glory it used to be. Google up old youtube videos of them and you will see just how different it was.

    All of this caused by a complete lack of testing and common sense.
  • captainbmoneycaptainbmoney Member Posts: 1,323 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I thought this was going to be another thread about cutting shields cap again. They did that in Season 4. They cut the shields SO MUCH that everyone and their mother were getting popped left and right.

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