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Embassy tier 2 upgrade 1 Million Dilithium!!!!!!!
markarich
Member Posts: 55 Arc User
Look, I really love Star Trek and I enjoy playing STO - I also love the fleet I'm in immensely; however, requiring 1 million dilithium for 1 embassy tier upgrade is patently nuts. I have a full time job, works 6 days a week and have a family. I started playing STO for fun. I don't mind doing what I can to help my fleet meet it's SB/Embassy projects and upgrades. But I, and I hope I speak for many fleet members here as well, do not want "dilithium miner/refiner" to become my 2nd job. Is this a mistake?? I think it must be - 1 million Dilithium is 125 days worth of mining/refining at 8000dil/day.(for a small to mid sized fleet with only a handful of members regularly contributing, that's too much to ask). It's already straining my daily grinding tolerance just to get the required fleet marks.
What's tier 3's requirement going to be?? 1 Billion dilithium????
What's tier 3's requirement going to be?? 1 Billion dilithium????
Post edited by markarich on
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2. Fleets are the definition of fluff and taking them on is your own mistake you have to live with.
I don't totally agree with you on #1 as , up until this point, we've been able to do quite well (we have a tier 4 starbase moving quickly to tier 5)
I, however, am starting to see your point on #2.
It irritates me to see people insisting on small fleets ("just me and my friends" they say), and then complain when they can't progress as fast as a 100+ member fleet.
As large fleets can afford to pay for the upgrades, of course they should enjoy the amenities that come from it. Small fleets should either merge with larger ones, or forget about starbase progression and focus on just having a good time playing STFs together.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Full disclosure: I'm not in a fleet.
I see your point but we don't have a "small Fleet" in the sense it's just me and a couple of buddies. On the other hand, there aren't 200 + plus people in our fleet either. Not everyone is able to contribute every ounce of their dilithium either. A fleet with 80 members (20 of which regularly contribute what they can) shouldn't be punished.
I wasn't voicing an opinion. They designed the system around large fleets and large amounts of resources being used. That's why Dil is a premium on the exchange now.
I'm using that 8000/day figure to give a sense of the immensity of the project requirement. I wasn't insinuating that it is only me donating.
I understand...maybe they should retool the requirement structure. Make requirements based on the active fleet members(obviously with sensible minimums)
Grinding for dilithium, fleet marks and giving every ounce to the fleet...Oh joy, what fun...
Priorities. You want the upgrade, figure out what it will take and make it happen. Work harder = quicker payoff.
Mark, you say grinding and imply not-fun... but I would say discipline & planning and argue that there's no reason for it not to be fun.
Say you have a small fleet with 20 active members. You need 1,000,000 dil. That's only 50k each - in other words, 6.25 days at the dil cap.
Why don't you guys find a time on the weekend or something that works for everyone and all log in at the same time.
1) Trivia at Starfleet Academy (480) -- subtotal 480
2) Fleet Action of the week (960 + 480 each + 50 fleet marks) -- subtotal 1920d/50fm
3) That week's featured foundry episode (960 + 50 fleet marks) -- subtotal 2880d/100fm
4) Aiding the Deferi (1440+480+480) -- subtotal 5280d/100fm
5) Eta Trio (480+480+480) -- subtotal 6720d/100fm
6) ESNW (1440) -- subtotal 8000d (at cap)/100
20 members playing*together for a couple of hours nets you 160,000 dil and 2,000 fleet marks. Do that each weekend for six weeks and you've got your embassy upgrade. Other than the time you set aside for that, don't worry about grinding up resources for the upgrade -- focus on doing your own thing and having fun.
*As distinct from just sitting and grinding solo
Don't take this the wrong way -- I don't want to tell you have to play your game -- but I had the same reaction you had when I saw the price tag. However, after I did the math I realized that it wasn't all that bad. Honestly, I run a few alts, so I routinely bring in 30-40k a day with minimal effort, so I don't think the fleet dil costs are all that bad. It's also important to acknowledge that there's a reason fleet projects aren't cheap - they are designed to require teamwork and planning and they give benefits that you don't otherwise get in the game... cheap Mk XII weapons, more transwarp options, Romulan BOFFs with special space traits, and so on. If they made it easy, everyone would have them and they wouldn't be special.
Anyway, sermon over.
TL;DR -- don't let the sticker shock get you down. The fleet upgrades are easily achieved by a small or mid-size fleet as long as you approach it with a plan and with some patience.
I hear what ur saying completely and understand, the tips and strategies are extremely helpful. The problem I often forget is that a fairly good percentage of the players in this game have, at least what would appear to me, a tremendous amount of free time to dedicate daily to STO. I , unfortunately, do not. If I get 1 to 2 hours of QUALITY time(and what I mean by that is - actually being able to concentrate fully on the game as opposed to the STO screen being open on my desktop and me just doing a couple of things walking by when I get a spare moment) it's a lot. On top of that, my STO quality time is quite late at night(after my family is in bed) when most , if not all, of my other fleet members are offline. I do, luckily, sometimes play from work as well, but this is a half hearted style of play as I can't obviously commit my full concentration to STO while at my day job. My weekends( or I should say my Sundays)are my family time(although I do sometimes get few hours in if I'm lucky.)
Obviously, in terms of quality commitment time to STO and fleet, mine is not the best scenario. So when I see fleet project requirement(s) like this, I get a bit concerned. I would like the short amount of quality playing time I do get to be enjoyable and not a monotonous grindfest. But again, as others have mentioned, the fleet system was not set up with my lifestyle and free time as a priority. I have to live with it certainly, but I don't have to like it either. The reason I made this thread is that there must be at least a few others out there in similar circumstances; and although we may be a minority, we should still be able to voice our concerns.
And don't even consider for an instant getting any of those nice end game equips from the rep system.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
A million would be quite ridiculous to expect from an individual player. Achievable in the long run or not, it's bad game design to saddle a single player with that kind of a deliverable.
However, we aren't talking about making a single player pay that much. Oh, those folks who have set up one-man fleets are in that unenviable position, but those people knew they were gaming the system from day one (generally to obtain more bank space without having to make microtransactions) and I can't say I have a lot of sympathy.
For a big fleet - one with say 100 active, contributing members you're looking at 10,000 dil per player, which is a miniscule amount. I don't think there's anything ridiculous about that kind of a cost for even a very casual, part-time player to contribute. That's equivalent to buying a single advanced fleet weapon from the starbase vendor.
Where we get into murky waters is small fleets - say 25 active members. At this point you're talking a burden of 40,000 dil each. I think there is room to debate at to whether or not this is a reasonable amount to expect from a player, and I understand the concern that casual players who are in small fleets have about needing to pay out that much.
The question is, what is the right burden to put on those small fleet members? I'm not convinced that there is a fair way to do fleet-size project cost scaling without making it open to exploitation, and I think there's an argument to be made along the lines of "higher individual share in projects is the opportunity cost for the greater personal stake players in small fleets enjoy compared to the more impersonal experience of being in a large fleet."
Romulan security teams
Reman security teams
Blue scorpion fighters
Blue Mk XI sensor probes
Purple Mk XII Romulan (rep system) weapons
...and so forth
Maybe wrap it up with fluff saying that these are things that the Embassy needs to upgrade its security and so forth.
Do you think this would seem more reasonable to players even if the ultimate 'ticket cost' was the same? Do you think that this 'camouflage' of the cost would be worth the 'lock out' effect of preventing characters who don't have the ability or prerequisites to get those "big ticket commodities" to contribute?
Part of me wants to say that this kind of approach would be good from a game design POV because it softens the sticker shock of the 7 figure number... but the other part of me says its a bad game design decision because dilithium is one of the few universally obtainable resources to all characters and thus encourages involvement by fleet members at all levels of character development.
Let me explain, the developers are too lazy to create a routine to report the amount of items in a project based on the number of members of the fleet.
No, the developers have yet to come up with a way to balance this fairly and prevent abuse (i.e. everyone but one person quits the fleet and then they pump up the starbase level before everyone rejoins)
So...its fluff as another poster have said.
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
Umm - Mk XII Consoles with Plasma DoT and Threat +/-?
New Kits?
Advanced and Elite Mk XII weapons, ship equipment and Hangar Pets?
Fleet ships?
These are all things that are unavailable if you don't wish to participate in a fleet (which shouldn't be mandatory given the insane requirements).
And pardon me as I use your thread as a vehicle for my thoughts ...
At the same time, the Embassy and Starbase are simply not required for game-play. Not one bit. Taken into consideration, the construction progression should always ... always ... be secondary to you and your friends "fun" to play. It will only take your group longer to achieve the Tier you want. Keep in mind ... want, not need.
It's a game, and people play games (generally and it may be an assumption on my part) because they *need* to have fun through some specific medium like Chess or Warhammer 40,000 or ... STO.
So, when the need is not being met is when dissatisfaction rises. Look at a lot of the posts around this one and really read them ... they are describing a need when really it's a want. Again, it's just a game and nothing is needed, just wanted.
Having said that, 1 million is a big number. But if you are spending your time only working for Dilithium in order to fill up that bar, then I strongly and humbly suggest you are missing the point of the game.
And let's be honest with ourselves: Cryptics goal is to get people to play the game. If you decide you need (want) a Tier 2 Embassy, then you and your buddies will play a very long time to achieve that goal and Cryptic has achieved theirs. It's not punishment (that's a perception), it's a way for a Cryptic to meet their goal. You could be a revolutionary and scream from the top of every post that you will no longer participate in that plan ... but then you won't get any closer to the Tier 2 Embassy you need (want).
And if a player quits the game, then it's less Cryptic's fault and more a matter of choice: the "fun" that is needed was not being met by STO ... but fun is relative because there are plenty of other people whose needs are being met by the same game played by everyone else.
Soooo - all that can be tl;dr to this: your Fleet doesn't need a Tier 2 Embassy and don't think you do. D'n;t worry about the numbers, Cryptic wants you to play the game, so just do it and your'll get everything you want eventually. Just have fun.
Fluff. Vanity items. Ego-boosts. New set of Pokemon. All of them.
I already completed both tier 5 Romulan and Omega reps. The Romulan tiering was a joke(you never even had to set foot on Romulus to get to tier 5 - unless you wanted to see the cut-scenes) and I had a large Omega lock box storage to help with the Omega tiering. in either case the requirements for both were sane.
Perhaps, but in STO, that's what passes for content.
Nah. There is new content. It's just stuck behind the Tholians and Epohhs and you can't see it very well.
But yeah, count me in as part of the "More damned missions!" crew.
What I have taken is that there are a myriad of different types of people from all walks of life who participate in STO mainly for their love of the genre. Each participant plays to their ability both time-wise and monetarily; thus each has a different viewpoint on how the game should progress. But we all, as Star Trek fans, really want the same thing...NEW Star Trek Content. Personally, I wish there would be a non-stop flow of new content to keep everyone satisfied; unfortunately, this is not the case. Some have called it "fluff" and I understand what they are trying to describe. This is what I guess I really have a problem with. Fluff being Pseudo-content that requires players to continue actively participating(not really playing, rather grinding- no matter how fun one or a group of people can make grinding - eventually it's just repeating the same exact actions over and over, alone or with a group) without actually adding any new or real CREATIVE content. Season 7, to me, was one big fluff. New Romulus, essentially one large map with the appropriate grinding missions built into it and a rep system alongside to make one feel that they are achieving something. Five short 30 second cut-scenes added to make us go "wow" every other week. That was the sum total of the creative content of season 7. Oh and a few new consoles, weapons, ships etc... thrown into the mix.
Season 6, the "fleet" season; again another entirety of fluff thrown together. A seemingly endless cycle of repetitive projects and upgrades. Only this time a group of players can "work" together to advance said projects. Yet still, content is essentially generated by the players working on a set of preexisting maps. Again a few new consoles, ships, weapons etc.. thrown in the mix.
The Foundry - a genius development by a lazy creative team...i.e. let's let the players CREATE the content, thus doing our jobs for us. Of course the requisite add-in's like Investigate Officer Reports thrown in to reward players for accepting this as a substitute for , again, Real creative content.
The 1 million dilithium requirement on embassy tier 2 was the catalyst that made a switch go off in my head. Whoa...OK...Enough!!! It's time Cryptic ends this cycle and starts to head back to the CREATIVE drawing board(rather than the gimmick one). Having some grinding as a part of the STO universe is acceptable and necessary, but when that is ALL there is, there is a major problem.
It amazes me that for season after season TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager; came up with a entire new episode WEEKLY in the real world. Thus real scripts had to written, disseminated, memorized, rehearsed, etc... Real sets and props had to be fabricated and assembled. Pre-production, Production, post-production week after week, every week. If they could do it in the real world why in God's name can't they even come close in the virtual world. There are no actors to pay, sets to assemble from scratch, etc... Honestly, when was last real new creative content added to STO; the last Feature Episode set?? How long ago was that? End-game shouldn't mean the END. In fact, there shouldn't be such a thing as end-game. This is the Star Trek universe, an infinite possible number of stories can be created(the Foundry proves that).
It's time the devs stop focusing on how to trick players into not noticing that there hasn't been any new real creative content and start DEVELOPING new creative content. That's what developers are supposed to do? isn't it?
I guess, in a nutshell, that's the real problem I have with the ever increasing grind requirements. Each time the reqs get larger, it subconsciously reminds me of how I'm really starving for some actual original content.