I wanted to thank everyone who has participated in this thread up to this point. There have been a number of excellent viewpoints and observations.
What I have taken is that there are a myriad of different types of people from all walks of life who participate in STO mainly for their love of the genre. Each participant plays to their ability both time-wise and monetarily; thus each has a different viewpoint on how the game should progress. But we all, as Star Trek fans, really want the same thing...NEW Star Trek Content. Personally, I wish there would be a non-stop flow of new content to keep everyone satisfied; unfortunately, this is not the case. Some have called it "fluff" and I understand what they are trying to describe. This is what I guess I really have a problem with. Fluff being Pseudo-content that requires players to continue actively participating(not really playing, rather grinding- no matter how fun one or a group of people can make grinding - eventually it's just repeating the same exact actions over and over, alone or with a group) without actually adding any new or real CREATIVE content. Season 7, to me, was one big fluff. New Romulus, essentially one large map with the appropriate grinding missions built into it and a rep system alongside to make one feel that they are achieving something. Five short 30 second cut-scenes added to make us go "wow" every other week. That was the sum total of the creative content of season 7. Oh and a few new consoles, weapons, ships etc... thrown into the mix.
Season 6, the "fleet" season; again another entirety of fluff thrown together. A seemingly endless cycle of repetitive projects and upgrades. Only this time a group of players can "work" together to advance said projects. Yet still, content is essentially generated by the players working on a set of preexisting maps. Again a few new consoles, ships, weapons etc.. thrown in the mix.
The Foundry - a genius development by a lazy creative team...i.e. let's let the players CREATE the content, thus doing our jobs for us. Of course the requisite add-in's like Investigate Officer Reports thrown in to reward players for accepting this as a substitute for , again, Real creative content.
The 1 million dilithium requirement on embassy tier 2 was the catalyst that made a switch go off in my head. Whoa...OK...Enough!!! It's time Cryptic ends this cycle and starts to head back to the CREATIVE drawing board(rather than the gimmick one). Having some grinding as a part of the STO universe is acceptable and necessary, but when that is ALL there is, there is a major problem.
It amazes me that for season after season TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager; came up with a entire new episode WEEKLY in the real world. Thus real scripts had to written, disseminated, memorized, rehearsed, etc... Real sets and props had to be fabricated and assembled. Pre-production, Production, post-production week after week, every week. If they could do it in the real world why in God's name can't they even come close in the virtual world. There are no actors to pay, sets to assemble from scratch, etc... Honestly, when was last real new creative content added to STO; the last Feature Episode set?? How long ago was that? End-game shouldn't mean the END. In fact, there shouldn't be such a thing as end-game. This is the Star Trek universe, an infinite possible number of stories can be created(the Foundry proves that).
It's time the devs stop focusing on how to trick players into not noticing that there hasn't been any new real creative content and start DEVELOPING new creative content. That's what developers are supposed to do? isn't it?
I guess, in a nutshell, that's the real problem I have with the ever increasing grind requirements. Each time the reqs get larger, it subconsciously reminds me of how I'm really starving for some actual original content.
And pardon me as I use your thread as a vehicle for my thoughts ...
At the same time, the Embassy and Starbase are simply not required for game-play. Not one bit. Taken into consideration, the construction progression should always ... always ... be secondary to you and your friends "fun" to play. It will only take your group longer to achieve the Tier you want. Keep in mind ... want, not need............
Having said that, 1 million is a big number. But if you are spending your time only working for Dilithium in order to fill up that bar, then I strongly and humbly suggest you are missing the point of the game........
Soooo - all that can be tl;dr to this: your Fleet doesn't need a Tier 2 Embassy and don't think you do. D'n;t worry about the numbers, Cryptic wants you to play the game, so just do it and your'll get everything you want eventually. Just have fun.
cmdscarlet, thank you for your input & no offense taken at all in regard to using my thread(that's why I posted it). My only problem with it is the "fun" aspect to which you keep referring. As I pointed out in my last post, when end game is reached there are a only a few options. #1. Season 7 Reputation system....another grind fest which I and most others finished in short order. #2. STF's, Feet actions, Dailies, PvE, etc... again, another grind fest with the slight redemptive quality that they can be done in groups; but still after ad nauseum runthroughs, it gets really old really fast. #3. PvP... again fun for a time, but eventually becomes a boring buy to win, monotonous scenario. #4. Fleet participation... I think this this has been adequately covered throughout the meat of this thread.
So where is this end-game "fun" solo or in groups to which you are referring? At this point, I am surviving the mind-numbing grinding for fleet projects by interjecting new, interesting-sounding, unplayed, foundry missions into my IOR. This is, again, an abysmal reflection on Cryptic that the only fresh, new content is being created by players rather than paid developers. Unfortunately, the interesting, worthwhile foundry missions tend to be quite long which negates their utility in IOR and cuts into the little quality STO playing time I have.
Crytic absolutely must break this end-game drought and start pumping out some truly new and creative content. That is the only way, in my opinion, they can keep this MMORG from going the way of the dodo.
Well our fleet just lost one of our members today. It came as quite a shock, at least to me. Apparently the person is heading back to a former fleet(I don't know the fleet size he's going back to but It would be a safe bet to assume it is a larger one than ours). The shame is he was was an extremely congenial guy who participated and contributed to our effort quite well. He will be missed. I wish him the best of luck in his future STO endeavors. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the ever increasing project/upgrade requirements had a good deal to do with his decision. As someone had stated previously in this thread, it is sad that the social cohesiveness that can really only be found in the small to mid-sized fleets is counteracted or opposed by the daunting project/upgrade requirements. No matter how dedicated one is to their fleet obligation, at some point a line is crossed where the demands become more than one is willing to make.
Again, hopefully some real content will be coming down the pike soon to end this situation. Fingers crossed, hoping for the best but expecting the worst(or just more of the same)
I agree, 1million is way too much! Especially with all the T5 omega projects. This would be tough for smaller fleets without spending real money
Exactly, and in the end that is what it really comes down to. Cryptic knows there is only so much grinding a group of people can ultimately take. Their actuaries have probably calculated the statistical percentage of group members likely to finally throw their hands up in the air and say,"f*** it, I'm just going to buy some zen and convert it to dilithium on the exchange." The disfavorable conversion rate also works to Cryptic's advantage.
Look, I really love Star Trek and I enjoy playing STO - I also love the fleet I'm in immensely; however, requiring 1 million dilithium for 1 embassy tier upgrade is patently nuts. I have a full time job, works 6 days a week and have a family. I started playing STO for fun. I don't mind doing what I can to help my fleet meet it's SB/Embassy projects and upgrades. But I, and I hope I speak for many fleet members here as well, do not want "dilithium miner/refiner" to become my 2nd job. Is this a mistake?? I think it must be - 1 million Dilithium is 125 days worth of mining/refining at 8000dil/day.(for a small to mid sized fleet with only a handful of members regularly contributing, that's too much to ask). It's already straining my daily grinding tolerance just to get the required fleet marks.
What's tier 3's requirement going to be?? 1 Billion dilithium????
Do you like free Zen? Fill out some surveys from Peanut Labs, then just convert the Zen to Dilithium!
Do you like free Zen? Fill out some surveys from Peanut Labs, then just convert the Zen to Dilithium!
I don't know, I've seen those zen survey offers. It smacks of those "Best Buy Gift Card" survey offers; half of which are scams, the other half place your email address on the marketing list from hell - or worse, a one way ticket to malware world.
Besides, having to buy zen to convert to dilithium is a line I'd rather leave uncrossed.
Fleets have 2 problems one the op touched on in great detail and i agree with. The second is the problem with Big fleets. Granted they were able to max out at little cost to each member due to their size. But because of their size and everyone giving just a little each member has very little Fleet credit to spend on the stores they donated to build. Where a small fleet each member is loaded with Fleet credit and no Dilithium to spend on the store items they spent all their Dil. to build.
It irritates me to see people insisting on small fleets ("just me and my friends" they say), and then complain when they can't progress as fast as a 100+ member fleet.
Did I miss the part when they went back on their metric of a 25 person fleet as their baseline for speed of progression?
It's irritating when individuals feel that elements of the game should be exclusive to certain niche groups.
Regardless, 1 million dil is a lot of dilithium to be spent on a Tier 2 upgrade, whether you are in a fleet of 10 or 100.
Comments
What I have taken is that there are a myriad of different types of people from all walks of life who participate in STO mainly for their love of the genre. Each participant plays to their ability both time-wise and monetarily; thus each has a different viewpoint on how the game should progress. But we all, as Star Trek fans, really want the same thing...NEW Star Trek Content. Personally, I wish there would be a non-stop flow of new content to keep everyone satisfied; unfortunately, this is not the case. Some have called it "fluff" and I understand what they are trying to describe. This is what I guess I really have a problem with. Fluff being Pseudo-content that requires players to continue actively participating(not really playing, rather grinding- no matter how fun one or a group of people can make grinding - eventually it's just repeating the same exact actions over and over, alone or with a group) without actually adding any new or real CREATIVE content. Season 7, to me, was one big fluff. New Romulus, essentially one large map with the appropriate grinding missions built into it and a rep system alongside to make one feel that they are achieving something. Five short 30 second cut-scenes added to make us go "wow" every other week. That was the sum total of the creative content of season 7. Oh and a few new consoles, weapons, ships etc... thrown into the mix.
Season 6, the "fleet" season; again another entirety of fluff thrown together. A seemingly endless cycle of repetitive projects and upgrades. Only this time a group of players can "work" together to advance said projects. Yet still, content is essentially generated by the players working on a set of preexisting maps. Again a few new consoles, ships, weapons etc.. thrown in the mix.
The Foundry - a genius development by a lazy creative team...i.e. let's let the players CREATE the content, thus doing our jobs for us. Of course the requisite add-in's like Investigate Officer Reports thrown in to reward players for accepting this as a substitute for , again, Real creative content.
The 1 million dilithium requirement on embassy tier 2 was the catalyst that made a switch go off in my head. Whoa...OK...Enough!!! It's time Cryptic ends this cycle and starts to head back to the CREATIVE drawing board(rather than the gimmick one). Having some grinding as a part of the STO universe is acceptable and necessary, but when that is ALL there is, there is a major problem.
It amazes me that for season after season TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager; came up with a entire new episode WEEKLY in the real world. Thus real scripts had to written, disseminated, memorized, rehearsed, etc... Real sets and props had to be fabricated and assembled. Pre-production, Production, post-production week after week, every week. If they could do it in the real world why in God's name can't they even come close in the virtual world. There are no actors to pay, sets to assemble from scratch, etc... Honestly, when was last real new creative content added to STO; the last Feature Episode set?? How long ago was that? End-game shouldn't mean the END. In fact, there shouldn't be such a thing as end-game. This is the Star Trek universe, an infinite possible number of stories can be created(the Foundry proves that).
It's time the devs stop focusing on how to trick players into not noticing that there hasn't been any new real creative content and start DEVELOPING new creative content. That's what developers are supposed to do? isn't it?
I guess, in a nutshell, that's the real problem I have with the ever increasing grind requirements. Each time the reqs get larger, it subconsciously reminds me of how I'm really starving for some actual original content.
cmdscarlet, thank you for your input & no offense taken at all in regard to using my thread(that's why I posted it). My only problem with it is the "fun" aspect to which you keep referring. As I pointed out in my last post, when end game is reached there are a only a few options. #1. Season 7 Reputation system....another grind fest which I and most others finished in short order. #2. STF's, Feet actions, Dailies, PvE, etc... again, another grind fest with the slight redemptive quality that they can be done in groups; but still after ad nauseum runthroughs, it gets really old really fast. #3. PvP... again fun for a time, but eventually becomes a boring buy to win, monotonous scenario. #4. Fleet participation... I think this this has been adequately covered throughout the meat of this thread.
So where is this end-game "fun" solo or in groups to which you are referring? At this point, I am surviving the mind-numbing grinding for fleet projects by interjecting new, interesting-sounding, unplayed, foundry missions into my IOR. This is, again, an abysmal reflection on Cryptic that the only fresh, new content is being created by players rather than paid developers. Unfortunately, the interesting, worthwhile foundry missions tend to be quite long which negates their utility in IOR and cuts into the little quality STO playing time I have.
Crytic absolutely must break this end-game drought and start pumping out some truly new and creative content. That is the only way, in my opinion, they can keep this MMORG from going the way of the dodo.
Again, hopefully some real content will be coming down the pike soon to end this situation. Fingers crossed, hoping for the best but expecting the worst(or just more of the same)
Exactly, and in the end that is what it really comes down to. Cryptic knows there is only so much grinding a group of people can ultimately take. Their actuaries have probably calculated the statistical percentage of group members likely to finally throw their hands up in the air and say,"f*** it, I'm just going to buy some zen and convert it to dilithium on the exchange." The disfavorable conversion rate also works to Cryptic's advantage.
Do you like free Zen? Fill out some surveys from Peanut Labs, then just convert the Zen to Dilithium!
I don't know, I've seen those zen survey offers. It smacks of those "Best Buy Gift Card" survey offers; half of which are scams, the other half place your email address on the marketing list from hell - or worse, a one way ticket to malware world.
Besides, having to buy zen to convert to dilithium is a line I'd rather leave uncrossed.
Did I miss the part when they went back on their metric of a 25 person fleet as their baseline for speed of progression?
It's irritating when individuals feel that elements of the game should be exclusive to certain niche groups.
Regardless, 1 million dil is a lot of dilithium to be spent on a Tier 2 upgrade, whether you are in a fleet of 10 or 100.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
Wait for tier 5 Starbase it is only 3mil of dil
sorry it 3 .6 million dil here is the video proof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UafQCdB4JnI&feature=youtu.be