I'm sorry I have to ask post your ship,it's build and your skills and maybe we can help you see the reason why you feel your not performing as well as escorts. You do know crusiers can do some very good DPS and tank. Maybe you just need help is it PvE or PvP your not performing well in?
Or maybe this is not about me, but about an idea. Why don't you write something about that idea, now that I answered your question?
Point of interest: putting the captain winky smiley after blowing off a question from someone who is pretty clearly offering to lend you a hand is considered quite condescending.
Secondly, you didn't answer his question. And for the record, plenty of folks have put up their thoughts on your "idea". The overwhelming majority of which are something to the effect of "your idea will do nothing but make cruisers the kings of the hill". But since you apparently don't want to hear that, you've ignored said opinions behind a mask of "well you guys don't really understand me, therefore your opinions don't matter".
Or maybe this is not about me, but about an idea. Why don't you write something about that idea, now that I answered your question?
Sure you want me to write about your idea IT STINKS there i said it. We all tried to be helpful but i guess thats too hard to accept. I'm sorry crusiers do fine its just narrow minded player who cant grasp the idea of how to build or use them is all.
Wow, 13 pages dedicated to a disgruntled eng cruiser that doesn't read descriptions on the character creator.
The original idea is terrible, the follow ups are terrible. The entire idea doesn't follow the mechanics of the game.
Learn to spec your ship right, do the job you chose when creating your character or make a new character if its too unbearable.
When our group plays HOSE, having my eng there with a high threat BFaW cruiser sucking up all the damage lets the group get finished way faster than without it, fewer deaths and usually 3 mins remain on first optional. The other 2 optionals are also much more likely to happen because of the ability to throw heals and resists on the team to eliminate torpedo spread wipes.
I would just like to point out that the above example builds show pretty clearly that no class is at any advantage over any other in such a system. Some builds will be better suited for a given target than others, of course.
Also, if the heals were available for all boff categories and usable on team mates, dedicated healing builds for the rare breed who like such a thing would still be possible.
So your solution now is to give every ability to every boff?
So in essence, every boff class would have to have 1 hull heal ability available and 1 shield heal ability availabe, labeled differently and probably using slightly different mechanics.
I wonder why that sounds so familiar....
Might it be because it's nearly identical to what we have right now?
Might it be because it's nearly identical to what we have right now?
Or it might be that there are thousands of these threads on the forums at the moment. I was of the understanding that making 100 different versions of the same thread was a form of spam, clearly the mods here disagree.
We've all heard the whole overhaul the game and make x of a career come out on top or make everything more generalised so that everyone does the same thing so that we aren't constrained by a very loose definition of class. It's been done to death now, please stop.
Especially since none of these ideas are even remotely possible as it would require the game to be practically rebuilt from the ground up.
.It is about a possible completely new way to organize division of work in space combat by giving everybody a specialty
Everybody already has a specialty. Cruiser tank, Science controls, Escorts damage.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
This thread is not what some people want you to believe. It is about a possible completely new way to organize division of work in space combat by giving everybody a specialty, not about cruisers or escorts or science ships "needing a nerf" or any such thing.
Translation: You want things to work differently because you don't like the fact that cruisers don't rule the roost. Every ship type already has a specialty. You're just unwilling, or unable, to accept the fact that those specialties are not the ones you want.
Wouldn't that pretty much make the sensor scan ability obsolete?
Most likely it would.
The fear of threads like this one is that the faulty and unbalanced idea will take hold further pushing the game into being unfun while not fixing anything at all.
This thread is not what some people want you to believe. It is about a possible completely new way to organize division of work in space combat by giving everybody a specialty, not about cruisers or escorts or science ships "needing a nerf" or any such thing.
And at that, it is a gedankenexperiment, not more. No one will expect anything else to come out of it but an exchange of thoughts and an exploration of the concept.
Not interested in it? That's fine, have fun.
This thread is exactly what people think. It is another of your attempts to make Engineer Cruisers the dominant class in Space combat. There is nothing wrong with the roles of the ship classes the way they are now.
It has been explained to you already. You simply refuse to listen to anything that does not support your desires. In over 140 posts there is not 1 person that has come out and said this is a great idea lets do this. So take a hint no one wants what you are selling.
Please assume, just for a moment, that I do not believe that this thread is any such thing. Please assume for a moment that any inbalances you see are not yet visible to me.
As they seem to be obvious to you, why don't you explain them to me in ways that are unrefutable, that is, with mathematical procedures?
For example, how does the cruiser killer escort build I posted not kill the cruiser-killer-cruiser a few posts earlier?
The burden of proof is on the accusor. You propose that the current system is imbalanced. You have to show us (mathematically if you want), how your proposal is better than what we have now. You haven't laid out logically why that is. You haven't shown us how pumping additional resistance and resistance penetration into cruiser/engineers is a good thing.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
As they seem to be obvious to you, why don't you explain them to me in ways that are unrefutable, that is, with mathematical procedures?
Where is your mathematical proof & procedures to backup any of the half dozen or more threads you have created in the past month or two alone on various versions of the exact same subject?
Threads where you have nearly unanimous negative opinions of your original post and refuse to accept any of them.
I can understand the frustrations of the OP , even if I don't agree w/him .
After all , 85% of Star Trek is about cruisers (and their crews) dealing with whatever came their way .
It does not help that last year Cryptic broke the Trinity with the Jemmy -- an escort that can tank almost as well as a cruiser , while leaving "classics" such as the Galaxy class as second class DPS even among cruisers .
All of the above can cause frustrations ... , but I accept the game for what it more or less is in PVE . Sure , Beam Overload 3 could have a bit more of a bite , and generally beams could drain a bit less weapons energy , but overall , meh .
I won't go into PVP as I do not wish to derail this thread .
To the OP , I will say this however : your proposed version of combat reminds me more of Babylon 5 then Star Trek ... , with the Escorts becoming Starfury attack craft at best :
... and my main toon is also an Engineer , and I'm still not asking for your type of change .
Just remember that there are "hybrid" ships out there that cater to Engineers and Sci officers who want a little more pew-pew !
To the OP , I will say this however : your proposed version of combat reminds me more of Babylon 5 then Star Trek ... , with the Escorts becoming Starfury attack craft at best :
I can understand the frustrations of the OP , even if I don't agree w/him .
After all , 85% of Star Trek is about cruisers (and their crews) dealing with whatever came their way .
It does not help that last year Cryptic broke the Trinity with the Jemmy -- an escort that can tank almost as well as a cruiser , while leaving "classics" such as the Galaxy class as second class DPS even among cruisers .
It just occurred to me that the fact that Cruisers don't do massive damage and that it takes them a while to whittle an enemy down, gives cruiser play a big Trek feel to me. Only time I remember the Enterprise dispatching enemies with single shots was in that Enterprise mirror episode. All of the memorable combat scenes from the shows were long drawn out ordeals.
It just occurred to me that the fact that Cruisers don't do massive damage and that it takes them a while to whittle an enemy down, gives cruiser play a big Trek feel to me. Only time I remember the Enterprise dispatching enemies with single shots was in that Enterprise mirror episode. All of the memorable combat scenes from the shows were long drawn out ordeals.
Truth be told, the reason for that is whether or not the producers felt the needed for filler i.e. whether or not they needed to draw out the battle to help the episodes fill the one hour time slot (that and it looks cool sometimes). Heck, if the games followed the various inconsistancies of the TV shows, only players would seem to have shields and all NPC (minus Borg) would be one shotted.
This is not a "buff cruisers" thread. The example builds should pretty much show how it is not. If you have any questions about them, please ask.
Yet, everything you have posted would add, in your own words, resistance to cruisers as well as additional resistance penatration. How is that not a buff to cruisers?
No one here has been pressuring anyone to agree with either side, yet many have come here, read all the pages, and responded. It just so happens that the responses are "no, bad idea."
Why do you think so? And why do you think that it is not offering a way to replay Star Trek space combat - where do you see a contradiction to what we could see on the screen?
You can't base a game off of an inconsistancy. For example, there was a mod for Star Trek Bridge Commander that aimed to reproduce the on screen battles; which meant that any warship could destroy another warship in less than ten seconds (we've all seen most of the battles, including the Dominion War episodes). As you can imagine, when you have a mission that involves fighting three Romuland D'Deridex Warbirds by yourself, well as you can imagine it had disatrious results.
Further inconsistancies include any ship with a major character on board taking an incredible amount of damage (i.e. anyone on the Defiant). As I said above, base a game off of an inconsistancy and a player would be able to one shot any NPC vessel. Not a vey fun game.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Comments
Point of interest: putting the captain winky smiley after blowing off a question from someone who is pretty clearly offering to lend you a hand is considered quite condescending.
Secondly, you didn't answer his question. And for the record, plenty of folks have put up their thoughts on your "idea". The overwhelming majority of which are something to the effect of "your idea will do nothing but make cruisers the kings of the hill". But since you apparently don't want to hear that, you've ignored said opinions behind a mask of "well you guys don't really understand me, therefore your opinions don't matter".
Sure you want me to write about your idea IT STINKS there i said it. We all tried to be helpful but i guess thats too hard to accept. I'm sorry crusiers do fine its just narrow minded player who cant grasp the idea of how to build or use them is all.
You've gotten it throughout this entire thread. You're just choosing to ignore it.
Dude you want more reasons read all the other posts WE DON'T AGREE! LOL nerf everything to make your crusier king no thanks!
The original idea is terrible, the follow ups are terrible. The entire idea doesn't follow the mechanics of the game.
Learn to spec your ship right, do the job you chose when creating your character or make a new character if its too unbearable.
When our group plays HOSE, having my eng there with a high threat BFaW cruiser sucking up all the damage lets the group get finished way faster than without it, fewer deaths and usually 3 mins remain on first optional. The other 2 optionals are also much more likely to happen because of the ability to throw heals and resists on the team to eliminate torpedo spread wipes.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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So your solution now is to give every ability to every boff?
What could possibly go wrong with that idea...
I wonder why that sounds so familiar....
Might it be because it's nearly identical to what we have right now?
We've all heard the whole overhaul the game and make x of a career come out on top or make everything more generalised so that everyone does the same thing so that we aren't constrained by a very loose definition of class. It's been done to death now, please stop.
Especially since none of these ideas are even remotely possible as it would require the game to be practically rebuilt from the ground up.
Reinvent the wheel anyone?
Everybody already has a specialty. Cruiser tank, Science controls, Escorts damage.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Translation: You want things to work differently because you don't like the fact that cruisers don't rule the roost. Every ship type already has a specialty. You're just unwilling, or unable, to accept the fact that those specialties are not the ones you want.
Most likely it would.
The fear of threads like this one is that the faulty and unbalanced idea will take hold further pushing the game into being unfun while not fixing anything at all.
R.I.P
And creative players can and do concoct ways to mix those specialties with the myriad hybrid ships and roles already available in-game.
This thread is exactly what people think. It is another of your attempts to make Engineer Cruisers the dominant class in Space combat. There is nothing wrong with the roles of the ship classes the way they are now.
The burden of proof is on the accusor. You propose that the current system is imbalanced. You have to show us (mathematically if you want), how your proposal is better than what we have now. You haven't laid out logically why that is. You haven't shown us how pumping additional resistance and resistance penetration into cruiser/engineers is a good thing.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Where is your mathematical proof & procedures to backup any of the half dozen or more threads you have created in the past month or two alone on various versions of the exact same subject?
Threads where you have nearly unanimous negative opinions of your original post and refuse to accept any of them.
After all , 85% of Star Trek is about cruisers (and their crews) dealing with whatever came their way .
It does not help that last year Cryptic broke the Trinity with the Jemmy -- an escort that can tank almost as well as a cruiser , while leaving "classics" such as the Galaxy class as second class DPS even among cruisers .
All of the above can cause frustrations ... , but I accept the game for what it more or less is in PVE . Sure , Beam Overload 3 could have a bit more of a bite , and generally beams could drain a bit less weapons energy , but overall , meh .
I won't go into PVP as I do not wish to derail this thread .
To the OP , I will say this however : your proposed version of combat reminds me more of Babylon 5 then Star Trek ... , with the Escorts becoming Starfury attack craft at best :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dRFxTiHm1k
... and my main toon is also an Engineer , and I'm still not asking for your type of change .
Just remember that there are "hybrid" ships out there that cater to Engineers and Sci officers who want a little more pew-pew !
More accurately, it would be B5 without White Stars.
It just occurred to me that the fact that Cruisers don't do massive damage and that it takes them a while to whittle an enemy down, gives cruiser play a big Trek feel to me. Only time I remember the Enterprise dispatching enemies with single shots was in that Enterprise mirror episode. All of the memorable combat scenes from the shows were long drawn out ordeals.
Truth be told, the reason for that is whether or not the producers felt the needed for filler i.e. whether or not they needed to draw out the battle to help the episodes fill the one hour time slot (that and it looks cool sometimes). Heck, if the games followed the various inconsistancies of the TV shows, only players would seem to have shields and all NPC (minus Borg) would be one shotted.
Knock of the melodramatics. We now have a 15 page thread of people saying "bad idea." Again, it ain't us.
Yet, everything you have posted would add, in your own words, resistance to cruisers as well as additional resistance penatration. How is that not a buff to cruisers?
No one here has been pressuring anyone to agree with either side, yet many have come here, read all the pages, and responded. It just so happens that the responses are "no, bad idea."
You can't base a game off of an inconsistancy. For example, there was a mod for Star Trek Bridge Commander that aimed to reproduce the on screen battles; which meant that any warship could destroy another warship in less than ten seconds (we've all seen most of the battles, including the Dominion War episodes). As you can imagine, when you have a mission that involves fighting three Romuland D'Deridex Warbirds by yourself, well as you can imagine it had disatrious results.
Further inconsistancies include any ship with a major character on board taking an incredible amount of damage (i.e. anyone on the Defiant). As I said above, base a game off of an inconsistancy and a player would be able to one shot any NPC vessel. Not a vey fun game.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind