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Fleets and a taxation system
ascaladar
Member Posts: 186 Arc User
I know a lot of people would hate it but the Dilithium costs for several projects are staggering and there are always people who never contribute Dilithium to any project but happily grab provisions from the store.
So a limited taxation system that would allow fleets to gather ressources without being too painful for some members and also not letting people who usually contribute nothing off the hook so easily sounds fair to me.
Example a fleet could set a Dilithium tax in percentage to any dilithium earned from missions, assignments and reputation-cash-ins.
I know a lot of people hate taxes and no one likes paying them but the donation system is also not fair to players.
So a limited taxation system that would allow fleets to gather ressources without being too painful for some members and also not letting people who usually contribute nothing off the hook so easily sounds fair to me.
Example a fleet could set a Dilithium tax in percentage to any dilithium earned from missions, assignments and reputation-cash-ins.
I know a lot of people hate taxes and no one likes paying them but the donation system is also not fair to players.
Post edited by ascaladar on
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Instead of taking their income, I would say allow fleets to add the Tax to Fleet and Embassy Provisions, BOFFs, DOFFs, and a major tax on ship Provisions. Which you could waiver for contributers.
But right now, you probablly give them incentive in locking access to the provisions until they show they are participating.
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
In star trek?
Really?
We got interspecies unity, end of poverty and need.............. and now you wanna bring back taxes????????????
NO lol
If your dilithium rich stop thinking like a greedy mind. Only greed and want.............
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My fleet does a similar thing. We restrict members from the fleet stores until they hit 200k fleet credits on the leader board. They then upgrade to "Senior Member" and have unlimited access to the fleet stores.
We had to do this to stop people from raiding our stores, and it also gives members a goal within the fleet.
I never really liked this idea tbh, our fleet doesn't do it. Fleet store access is available to all but the first rank. Once you've been with us a few weeks and we've seen you around in game you get promoted with access to it and we haven't had any problems at all.
Nobody can really raid the stores given how expensive and dilithium heavy everything is. I think activity and a willing to help out should be more important than wealth in deciding fleet ranks.
For bank access I can understand it, as we had one or two issues with people trying to raid the bank - but never the fleet stores because they're so damn expensive and everything is bind on pickup!
Kirk's Protege.
BARAK? Is that you?
When did you start playing STO?
How does, say, automatically depositing 1 in every 10 Dilthium earned into a randomly chosen Starbase or Embassy project help the "powerful" more than the "lower ranks"?
This is the whole problem with starbases - they have made fleets into a gated content system where you are building the king his space castle.
What if someone wants to be part of the fleet for the original reasons they were created such as the social aspect and has zero interest in the stores?
Isn't that sorta obvious? Because it's the higher ranks that have access to the new shinys. Whenever I create a new toon I remain fleetless and always get invites into random fleets so I go and check them out. 90% are very top heavy and only maybe the top 5% have access to the fleet stores. Taxing the whole fleet for the benefit of the senior members is a very bad idea....
Kirk's Protege.
That solves the issue of power hungry fleet management, but I still think the whole tax idea is a bad one.
Kirk's Protege.
City of Heroes did this in a very smart way. You joined a Super Group, and then you entered SuperGroup mode where a percentage of all your earnings (loot, experience, or in our case dilithium) was AUTOMATICALY moved to the Super Group.
It prevents drama, exploitation, and a lot of bad behavior is eliminated with an automatic system like this.
In fact, the whole Fleet Provision system should be scuttled and something more like the above put in its place.
Very simple...
I am here to ENOJY the game, and spend the resources I, as in ME, decided to spend, and I would not want a single of my fleet members being forced to anything other.
I will dissolve my fleet, before I support this stupid idea.
If you want to pay taxes in a game, make your own.
Get rid of fleet provisions. A fleet member needs to earn fleet currency to buy fleet items (already in place) and if that currency was automatically earned through the automatic tax system, then no need to incorporate a provision element to the game.
Here is how it should work. I join a fleet, and I get to choose a percentage of tax. A higher percentage would allow me to earn fleet currency more quickly (and of course contribute more to the fleet projects), and everything I do in game is then taxed. My experience to my energy credits to my dilithium would (should) be taxed.
We could set a minimum at 10%, and a maximum at 50% lets say.
This relieves the fleet admins from having to monitor and control who is allowed access to what fleet reward as the system would now AUTOMATICALY control that. Those who play harder at a higher tax percentage would get fleet items more quickly, while allowing others to contribute as they are comfortable with.
This is perhaps the most fair way that I can see to do this.
that sells provisions for dilithium and remove that dilithium requirements
from most of the projects/stores and have it require provisions and dilithium cost
for provisions will depend on the department.
this way fleets wont have the need to locked down there base. and contributors
wont be frustrated not being able to buy anything.
Sing it high brother!! It's time to get rid of the king and have a democracy - I'm in Boston and have the tea ready!!
Not a bad idea. How was that done? I've had some people do that in my fleet after being told not to touch fleet assets.
Vice Admiral T'vix RRW Talon (Scimitar Drednought)
General S'tal IKS Q'vat (Bortasq' Battle Cruiser)
The fleet bank has more restrictions, mostly because that has gotten raided before, mostly due to the very low opportunity cost.
You are characterizing it all wrong. I can see how that might be the case in some fleets, but not all. On my fleet our fearless leader has gotten SIX times as many fleet credits with his main as I have, and even has an alt that has contributed MORE than my main. Just to give you an idea of the kinds of numbers we're talking about, my main is on the leaderboard's "front page" (11nth as of today) and the fleet is LvL 16.... That kind of dedication and commitment by our leader deserves respect. We're not building his castle, we're building a castle for all of us. There IS a difference.
The only thing a fleet really needs from its' members (aside from participation in fleet activities) is contributions to fleet projects.
This is already gated by who is allowed to contribute and how much they contribute.
The people who are already contributing have enough of a drain on their resources. They shouldn't be penalized.
The people who aren't contributing aren't earning fleet credits. They can't buy anything worth buying from the fleet store, and they can be locked out of the fleet store in any case. At best, they get free use of some of the fleet facilities like the transwarps and those don't cost anything once the upgrade is completed.
A mandatory tax just encourages people to leave, unless it's the same mandatory tax everywhere... which Cryptic won't do because then they have to take the heat for it.
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However, I think there are some lost lessons from how WoW handled its guild progression.
In particular, by tying it to a reputation system, you have a two tier model of progression that places more of the burden on players than on fleets and doesn't squeeze out small fleets as bad as what we have here.
Effectively, instead of balancing totally around large fleets, you have easier fleet progression but more personal costs associated with reaping the rewards.
It's hard to totally put the genie back in the bottle here.
But one thing I could see is a Fleet rep system that provides alternate/extended access to features.
So, for example, you have Fleet rep. Fleet rep uses Fleet credits. More Fleet rep equals early access to higher tier amenities. (So, for example, having T5 fleet rep might allow you to have access to T5 ships in a T2 Fleet.)