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PvP Tournament - 6. Feedback
pascalb1
Member Posts: 135 Arc User
6. Feedback
Please feel free to give us a much feedback as possible about the tournament.
Feedback on:
- Rules
- The match system
- Team Registration
- any ideas for the future
Please do not start a discussion let everyone express their ideas! Stay on the topic please!
p.s. ideas posted in this thread will be deleted, please add them again in here if you don't mind. We apologize for the problems this may cause.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=492471
Please feel free to give us a much feedback as possible about the tournament.
Feedback on:
- Rules
- The match system
- Team Registration
- any ideas for the future
Please do not start a discussion let everyone express their ideas! Stay on the topic please!
p.s. ideas posted in this thread will be deleted, please add them again in here if you don't mind. We apologize for the problems this may cause.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=492471
Post edited by pascalb1 on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The rules stll exist just not for this tournament. They will be used in the league.
- Nova Aurora Polaris -
@pascalb1
I will put that down into my notes.
- Nova Aurora Polaris -
@pascalb1
1. If Operative kit and shrouding is allowed, it will not be a fair game. Until that is banned from the tournament, I am out. ( suuperduude )
2. So.. let's see...
With 5.2.. KDF gets Boned because the Feds can run more ships with only 1 Hanger each while the KDF only has one ship that comes with a hanger Bay, and that's the marauder, other wise they have 2 True carriers.
And with 6.1 the KDF gets screwed yet again because more of their pets have been restricted then the Fed side. Of course they are understandable restrictions, except for the Fer'Jai frigates in a way.. Kinda surprised the Marauder pets didn't get restricted as well honestly, since I don't believe their Boarding Party power subsystem disable effect can't be cleared by Tac team while their cool down ability can be last I checked.
Not like I expect to witness videos or other types of information concerning the Tournament with full KDF teams being Fielded. ( webdeath )
3. I also see that spawn camping is not against the rules? ( suuperduude )
4.
- Nova Aurora Polaris -
@pascalb1
I'd also like to know why you wish to restrict Scramble Sensors; as I understand it, the grievance against this power was that under certain conditions, the confuse used to continue after death, but that glitch has since been patched and the power functions as intended; I see no reason ban it.
Bug report with more information:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=7212141#post7212141
Just to let you know I have not registered as yet as I will probably need to field a mixed team this event and am still trying to confirm my cohorts.
Define exploits. Is /logout an exploit? How will you know if someone is using an exploit? Will a GM be watching logs? Can we challenge and call for an investigation on someone if they are using an exploit?
We need these clarified before the tournament begins.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
and how do you want to control, whether it is used, or not?
If you want a pure skills tournament then go with season 2 ships and outlaw all consoles.
"live long enough to be assimilated, resistance is futile"
The vested nature in a lot of PvPers is of honorable proportions since most of them acknowledge some of the broken concepts being employed/released by Devs in this game.
There is a reason why a lot of us refuse to run the full temporal set, tric mines, grav pulses, AMS etc. There has been a lot of due diligence when testing things out in this game. It isn't that "we can't beat it". A lot of us can beat that stuff, but there is merited truth behind the idea of providing feedback on things that do need a nerf. Like tric mines which are an blunt obvious over powered weapon when used in junction with dispersal patterns.
Now if this tournament is "not worth it" for you, then it's because you are unable to participate due to your heavy reliance on a certain set of things. Being one dimensional is perhaps the downfall of most of the creativity that can be achieved in this game when making a premade. I regret not to see all those that rely on all of that stuff to win.
The other side to this is the presumed stupidity of those that don't run this stuff. Are we stupid not to run it? The answer is no, we acknowledge stuff that's broken and try our best to provide feedback on working on it. Otherwise, we'd be glad to use "time inversion" on everyone while we nuke/scan/alpha, tric bomb, grav pulse, ams, etc.
Can you imagine someone doing that to you? Would you want to play a game like that? I can tell you this much, if the more seasoned PvP teams decided to run this stuff, there would be no sense in competition in this game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Perhaps if you cry more it will fix the problem?
Is the allotted 2 week time frame FAR too short to think of a new team set-up?
What about broken boff abilities. What's the counter against extend shields? 4 people on a team with it and it can be used full time. Well, there WERE counters against but apparently they're too OP and so get banned. Who do I need to sleep with in order to get stuff that I don't like banned from tournament play?
I'm not saying this is true, but powers that be should really take a look at things from the outside. Appearances of favoritism in order to promote a select few 'popular' fleets does more to harm PvP than any tournament could help it.
And people wonder why I don't do 'real PvP' and just 1 v 1.
Huh, I wasn't aware that Photonic Shockwave was banned, brb, re-reading those rules.
PS wasn't banned. Another counter to Extend Shields is something that is crazy OP, in fact, there was a recent thread about nerfing it...WEAPONS and DAMAGE! I was told by the most l33t PvPers that damage in fact counters Extend Shields, who wouldda thunk it? :rolleyes:
the detonator was, shockwave still legal, but when you're allowed to have 2 copies and > continuously < extend as opposed to have a cooldown and a global, why bother?
The people who are NOW going on these forums to complain about the extends bridge officer ability have:
A) Have been been hanging out with a crowd who has no idea what a photonic shockwave is or what it does.
C) Have no idea how to work a tractor beam repulsor (watch some of my vids)
D) Have no idea what a sub nuke is
E) Don't know how to target shields and;
F) You found it now to come on here and provide feedback about something that is widely in use and quite clean in it's use and it's counter by nearly everyone that play pvp in this game.
We have been talking about inversion field, and tipler console for weeks and weeks, long before the tournament was scheduled or thought of. And now you come on here upset now?
Trying to stir stuff up? Both in OPVP and on here? People who do this talk, and don't play the game. If the rules are harsh on you, then employ a creative thought process and come up with something less one dimensional.
Those few "popular fleets" have taken the stance on maintaining their set ups clean. Most notably and recently, Nova Core. The other fleets that run/try to run clean setups and acknowledge the necessity on providing feedback on this stuff are:
TSI
Sad Pandas
Unfound
Lag Ind
Proteus (now starting to working on their stuff)
32nd Vipers (Getting there)
Inner Circle
Elysion
-X-Treme
If I forgot your fleet name, I apologize. But these fleets and the people in these fleets and the leaders of these fleets have taken upon themselves to employ partially, or in total regard to employ a forward stance on acknowledging these things. These are gaming communities that are forward thinking in terms of the game needing work and providing feedback for it.
As I recall, your fleet participated in the rule making process. Your fleet agreed on extends being present. So when you come off and yell at Pascal like you yelled at me in your TS that TRH made these rules, and try to sabotage his tournament because the rules hurt your feelings then you're gravely mistaken.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Does your fleet use extend shields? I wasn't making a personal attack, but I have seen fleets use it in the past. I'm sorry, but it seems to me that a team that revolves on every member having at least one instance of extend is indeed 'one-dimensional'. Perhaps if a team wasn't so reliant on extend shields the 'broken' stuff wouldn't be so 'broken'.
I'm also a bit disappointed. I have always respected you as someone that is benevolent and caring. As such, I would have expected someone more willing to explain than to lash out at someone questioning recent rules changes.
I DO know what those things do. However, even if a team has 3 science officers and nukes, 5 members with extend negates that. Two people with target shields or even aux for the healer..... 5 extend negates. shockwave....same. Sorry man, I'm not buying into how 'easily extend is removed' well, maybe....but not as easily as it's replaced.
The rules disregard almost half of the equipment/gear/consoles readily available for every player in this game.This either imply that half of the stuff used in everyday STO is somehow "broken" and not suitable for pvp or that this game simply isnt made for "fair and square" pvp.If you rule out half the gear/skills that is part of this game you may as well play a different game alltogether
No wonder Registration is practicaly dead. ( cryox1 )
- Nova Aurora Polaris -
@pascalb1
You focus a target for x amount of time..more than likely every extends on that team will be on the person you just focused for 30 seconds..
Then guess what something amazing happens, you switch targets to the 3 to 4 open targets.
First off, the tipler console isnt that bad, its annoying, but can be managed with. The Temporal Inversion set bonus, however, is very powerful when 3-4 people on a team use them, offensively and defensively.
Heals, buffs, and weapon firing cycles are all on an extended cooldown, not to mention that your ship is also moving very slowly. AND, then you add, Warp plasma, Theta Radiation Vent, Antimatter spread, scramble sensors, etc. make even a slight attempt at countering the inversion field extremely difficult when it is spaced out just enough to keep a whole team in the inversion field for more than a single inversion would do.
Science team does not clear it, it attempts to in the 5 seconds that it is active, but is not a complete cure because it only clears in ticks, not continuously and the debuff is reapplied.
Using scramble sensors is not a clean counter, it just puts the AOE Inversion field on the opposing teams teammates.
Extend Shields gives a small gradual heal, with a resist that is based on the shield power of the extender when it is activated. if a healer goes full shield power before applying extend shields, it will have a higher resist. this ability can be dealt with pretty easy overall.
1 ) Time your subnuke/alpha between the person's extend shields that they are recieving.
2.) Force an extend shields on a dummy target then alpha/subnuke your real target
3.) Shockwave the extender to break the extend shields ability
4.) repulse the target out of the healers range, separating the extender from the target
5.) Dont forget that the person carrying extends can only use it when the team mate is withitn 7.5km. outside of that, the resist does not apply.
You do not have to have a shockwave or repulsors to deal with extends, just takes coordination and timing.
@Minitrckin08 Turkish RP Heros
These are not just arbitrary rules. Representatives from all major PVP fleets were invited to work, compromise and agree on a set of rules to ensure fair play and to prevent the utilization of broken/exploitative powers. The rules were developed together, not by a singe individual or a single fleet.
I believe it is not only in the PVP communities interest but also in Cryptics interest to prohibit the usage of broken/exploitative game mechanics.
Representatives from TSI, Sad Pandas, TRH, SOB, Nova Core etc collaborated that day.
Since this endeavour is supported by Cryptic, I tried (as the representative of TRH during that meeting) to work towards having as few rules as possible, in order to ensure widest possible participation in this tournament. Working from that premise I did not quite agree to some of the item exclusions. But more important what one single indivual wanted or one single fleet wanted is what the majority of the Representatives (all respectable and knowledgeable PVP'ers) wanted.
Regarding Extends:
Since I started playing PVP, Extends have been part of the game, and really a non-controversial part I might add. Where does this "Extends are broken"-attitude come from all of a sudden?!
Are Extends broken? No.
Can it be powerful when used correctly? Yes. But so is Cannon Rapid Fire for instance. And Emergency Power to Shields. And so is a lot of stuff...
All successfull PVP fleets have used and continue using Extends, including TSI, Sad Pandas
Elysion, TRH, Angry Clowns, you name it! By demonizing a non-controversial Bridge Officer ability one is basically alienating the whole PVP community. It just does not make any sense.
Can Extends be countered? Sure. Don't take my word for it, just watch some videos for proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfNsJ67PNyY
In this video you see a match between TRH and TSI. One member of TRH carries Extends, while 2 members of TSI carry Extends. Watch the buffs, you can clearly see that our kill targets sometimes had 2 Extends cast on him. And then watch how the kill target still blows up.
It totally escapes me how someone or an entire fleet could possibly built up so much anger regarding Extends.
Regarding Time ship abilities:
Since the Time ships / Temporal Warfare 3-Set Bonus got released it was clear from the getgo that their console abilities could be very powerful, maybe even OP. Especially when combined with other P2W-consoles.
It is indeed possible to "abuse" the Inversion field abilitiy in a way that resistance of an opposing team would be futile. If a team goes into a match with enough time ships and use them properly, a defeat will virtually be impossible.
I tried to bring this topic up during the rules meeting. To my shame I must confess I could have done a better job at explaining the exploitative nature of using multiple tiplers and Temporal Inversion fields. Also, the rules meeting lasted for more than 5 hours and the people involved got a bit restless, so it was decided upon to deal with this whole time ship matter on a later date.
We silently hoped that at least well known PVP fleets would show some restrain and that the whole issue would just remain an "academic" problem.
Also, if someone thinks that the rules basically rules out all the consoles/tactics that ensured someone owns victory, it is perhaps not the rules that are problem but one owns game style or even ones philosophy regarding how to PVP.
Regarding the whole petty inter-fleet beef:
I understand that certain individuals and/or fleet is trying to run a campaign against the fleet that I am a member of.
But one should consider that trying to smear another PVP fleet with unsubstantiated accusations in the forums and in the OrganizedPVP channel could cast an unfortunate light on the accuser.
In the interest of one owns credibility and in the interest of the PVP community we probably should try to keep this thread clean of any personal vendettas.
I think the first major issue's with extend shields was brought to light when the very first "TSI funday" was held.
ever since then i've noticed that extend shields has been considered "dirty" and i still cant fathom why. Yes i do understand why it was frowned upon for the fun day (hindsight does that).
i personally feel that extend shields is quite powerful for what it is/does and at minimal cost to the user, and then they introduced that duty officer that makes it even more enticing to use extend shields...
but thats an issue cryptic needs to solve.
Do you even Science Bro?
So lets all smile, shut up and friggin pew pew and die with honor!
Soveliss-Sovair
Leader of SvKELITE
Mosquito Squadron
The tactics that you're talking about prove to be quite effective indeed. The fact that you said 'possible counter to' tells me that you are well aware of other ways to prevent this tactic, why not try some of those?
Forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Sad Pandas have a member of the Fleet in the conversation when these rules were decided? I find it hard to believe Mech Warriors is so engaging that it isn't possible to log off for a few moments to discuss the rules of the tournament? :rolleyes:
That would be absolutely devastating! I was so looking forward to potentially fighting one of the formerly best PvP Fleets in the game!