Why is it good to "force" people to do anything? This is a game. It's about enjoyment, not behavior modification. I will do what gives me joy, with zero regard for what anyone arbitrarily decides is the "correct" way of doing XYZ.
In this case, that means the absolute shortest path to the "Investigate officer reports" reward. Like it or lump it, but I'll not be submitting my habits for anyone's approval.
Why is it good to "force" people to do anything? This is a game. It's about enjoyment, not behavior modification. I will do what gives me joy, with zero regard for what anyone arbitrarily decides is the "correct" way of doing XYZ.
In this case, that means the absolute shortest path to the "Investigate officer reports" reward. Like it or lump it, but I'll not be submitting my habits for anyone's approval.
I have 4 missions in the top 20 (not counting the brand new all 5's that come and go), this would affect me more than most but I am still in favor of it because I WANT people's missions to get played, even when they are occasionally not mine. As to "forcing" you to search out the missions you want to play instead of just jamming the top of our list with garbage for the convienance of grinders with no respect for the Foundry to start with: too bad.
The foundry is the realm of foundry players. If you want to play some of our missions for dil fine. If you want to play quick crappy missions, fine. Don't try to co-opt our tool to do so. What matters in the foundry is what's best for foundry players and authors. The grinders and their wishes are utterly meaningless. In fact I am more than a little hostile to that crowd given their behavior toward us when the 3 clikie daily went away.
Never said ANYTHING was subject to my approval. This is a baseless ad homonym attack that tries to restate what was said in a distorted way and then goes after that instead of what was actually said to avoid having to make an actual point. That might work on a 12 year old but not me.
YOU are the one arguing that the Foundry is there for your personal dilithium-grinding convenience and that the people who use it for actual story-telling (what it is intended for) should be shafted because you don't personally care for that.
What matters in the foundry is up to the individual behind his mouse and keyboard, also not subject to your approval.
Never said anything about censoring any mission based on type. I am a published writer and I've been both physically injured and jailed because of standing-up for other people's right to speech. This is an extremely offensive, if sadly typical, remark.
Guys, keep in mind I'm not a community manager, but the last thread that started down this road got deleted. Not closed, not edited, deleted. If you want to continue the conversation at all, I'd suggest taking a deep breath.
Oh, I'm done. I think his statements speak for themselves.
You mean, by being right and stuff?
Look, I can understand that you feel this is how you express yourself creatively. But user generated content exists as something for the company to sell to consumers. You're doing it for free, but you're effectively an employee of PWE when you create a foundry mission.
And since it's out of your hands at that point, it becomes the choice of the consumer how they use that UGC. For the stories or for the dil.
I agree that the exploits are insulting to authors. I agree that they can unbalance things as well. Cryptic should have a small team play-testing the missions before approval. That way they can kill the exploit missions before they hit and authors can create short ones that will count towards the wrapper reward. But then that defeats the purpose of UGC: Players doing the dev's jobs for them.
Maybe they can get the last two Champions Online devs to do it since they're not doing anything aside from keeping the servers from rusting.
I recently got out a mission from 0 plays to qualifying, but, I can't say with a good head or not if it was or was not effected by this. Getting out of "review hell" has always been a bit of an issue, it could be said it has expanded out to the first 25 plays. Still, after 5 the general playerbase now sees the mission to start voting without the reviewer tab but, I've seen good missions that have only procured 30 plays after a few months.
I can't say if it is the process building up to qualifying doing harm or not. To make a qualified guess we'd need more data. I'm afraid Cryptic is the only folks with it.
One thing that would greatly help would be if the initial 5 reviews counted twoard calculating average times which currently they do not. You can generally get 5 people to play the mission to get it out of review but once it shows up on the main list with that red text flaoting above it no one wants to touch the thing.
One thing that would greatly help would be if the initial 5 reviews counted twoard calculating average times which currently they do not. You can generally get 5 people to play the mission to get it out of review but once it shows up on the main list with that red text flaoting above it no one wants to touch the thing.
Aye, my new mission is red-texted and now I consider it to be dead on arrival; partly due to testing it before it was developed enough (i.e. several 3-5 min or less tests) both in the Foundry and in Holodeck. The current run through time for me with a very well equipped ship is 25-30 minutes; last night I ran through it with a second player and we spent more than an hour (due to the increased number of ships). Still red-text'd.
I'd be in favor of separating this system a bit to limit this from occurring:
Level 1 - 5-10 minute missions: 320 dil (1/3 standard) 20 marks
Level 2 for 10-20: 640 dil (2/3) 40 marks
Level 3 20-45: 960 dil (what we're currently receiving) 60 marks
Level 4 45+ : 1440 (what we used to receive) 80 marks
This is based on the average run time of the mission. Although, I imagine most missions will be tricked into the Level 4 category initially, after a few run-throughs it'll drop to the more appropriate level.
Is there anyway to copy maps to a new mission?!?
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
I think you can copy the entire project, and then just delete the original. In fact, I may do that in future to ensure that once it goes 'live' it's a clean slate.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I think you can copy the entire project, and then just delete the original. In fact, I may do that in future to ensure that once it goes 'live' it's a clean slate.
I did it once by accident but forgot how I did it. A 'save as' option sure would be nice.
You can copy an entire published project and rename it and thus have your prior maps available. However, this has two problems:
1) it keeps the ratings/status from a prior published project - hence if it was red-flagged before, it's still red-flagged - and the reviews become meaningless or detrimental to your new project.not true - sorry - just tested this and it does remove the ratings! I thought when I created this new mission by reusing a previous one for its maps I did it this way - turns out I just edited the non-archived project.
2) You cannot combine maps from different projects.
This seems like such an obvious option to include in the foundry and it befuddles me to no end that there's not a simple button to transfer your map or save maps independently of projects - especially when they allow you to create such works of space art that you may want to reuse..
The same can be said for your NPCs and their costumes... it's mind-boggling that this isn't an option here.
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
1) it keeps the ratings/status from a prior published project - hence if it was red-flagged before, it's still red-flagged - and the reviews become meaningless or detrimental to your new project.
Are you sure? Granted I have not done this for a little while, but the last time I used the import project button, which allows you to create a new mission by copying one of your other missions, published or not, it created an entirely new mission with no ratings on it.
Actually that's not true, the last time I tried it it bugged out on me and didn't copy over any of the maps. So the above is the last time I successfully tried it, lol.
Anyway if this has changed we need to know about it.
Your test times within the Foundry shouldn't matter, right? Only the ones on the Holodeck?
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Are you sure? Granted I have not done this for a little while, but the last time I used the import project button, which allows you to create a new mission by copying one of your other missions, published or not, it created an entirely new mission with no ratings on it.
Actually that's not true, the last time I tried it it bugged out on me and didn't copy over any of the maps. So the above is the last time I successfully tried it, lol.
Anyway if this has changed we need to know about it.
Thanks drogyn1701 - It turns out it doesn't keep the ratings! I thought I created my new mission using one of my old maps by the archive method, but I must have just edited the current project instead.
So now my project is still red-text'd but at least in theory the previous times recorded to it are erased. Now all I need to do is get it played a few times to test...
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
I can't say if it is the process building up to qualifying doing harm or not. To make a qualified guess we'd need more data. I'm afraid Cryptic is the only folks with it.
I dont think the "15 min rule" itself is a problem. The real problem is the missing transparency. When will a mission be checked? What is the current mission time for the rule? What can be done if the mission slipped out of the rule? ...
One might say the Devs took the most dumb way to implement this foundry obstacle. The easiest way would have been to grant the OR depending on users mission time amount.
But I guess they were a bit upset on the foundry abuse and felt urged to nerf the whole foundry com.
If you duplicate a mission the copy is a totally new mission and retains no info from the origional. I do this all the time when working on sequals and have also done it to re-launch a mission that I felt was unfairly low rated when it first came out.
No doubt because those pedestrian philistines didn't appreciate your subtle brilliance.
:rolleyes:
No, because of trolls like you just going around looking to pick fights and cause strife for no particular reason.
Why are you even here? You have absolutely nothing to add to this conversation but BS and trouble-making. You don't make Foundry missions, nor do you play them for any reason but to grind for dilithium as you have already made clear.
I can deal with a troll if he has some wit and flare--you have neither.
So, put up or shut up. Let's see your work so we can all bow down to your genius; otherwise you are nothing but a petulant, ****-talking ***** and you can **** off.
I fail to see any contradiction between these two statements, nor any associate hypocrisy. Someone was bashing the foundry missions (and making extremely rude comments about Foundry authors which I note you have failed to include for context-wonder why...) so I stated an opinion to the contrary and suggested that he show us how to properly do it. A challenge I extend to you and your buddy above. That is not "trolling" or looking for fights. This is an absurd false equivalency argument that demonstrates a pitiful lack of character and skill. It seems amateur hour is running overtime today...
By the by, if no one wants to play these missions why do they have so many thousands of plays? And no, I'm not talking about the exploit missions. Look up any mission on the SBUGC list and see how many nobodies are playing them.
And I will extend my question to you as well: Why, then, are you even here?
I don't think it's really true that players don't want to play Foundry missions. Some missions have thousands of plays and that was before the reward changes. It's hard to say what percentage of players that is since we don't know how many players STO has, nor how many players have come and gone over the course of the past year and a half.
I do think that the current design of STO is tilted very heavily toward grinders. STO started out sort of strong in terms of storyline content with the first two FEs, and then it fell straight on its face. The devs have simply not delivered much storyline content, so the type of players who enjoy that are probably not going to stick around. We Foundry authors can do our best, but it's tough when the overall design of the game is not in our favor.
I dont think the "15 min rule" itself is a problem. The real problem is the missing transparency. When will a mission be checked? What is the current mission time for the rule? What can be done if the mission slipped out of the rule? ...
One might say the Devs took the most dumb way to implement this foundry obstacle. The easiest way would have been to grant the OR depending on users mission time amount.
But I guess they were a bit upset on the foundry abuse and felt urged to nerf the whole foundry com.
Let's be honest, if they explained what exactly the requirements were in full on laid out clear writing the system would be completely broken in a day without any data on how it worked out.
As for the second thing, this is just a temp situation. They needed to close the loophole giving out a free 1440 DL in 5 minutes with no gameplay or effort. This is what they used. I doubt it will stick.
No, because of trolls like you just going around looking to pick fights and cause strife for no particular reason.
Dude, AJ, if you think he's a troll, stop feeding him.
Sure, but it'd at least be nice to have a direction to go.
There's a difference between saying 'it's time x players divided by average height' or whatnot and saying 'roughly more than 20 minutes, at least X plays, and some filtering by maps' or something.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Comments
In this case, that means the absolute shortest path to the "Investigate officer reports" reward. Like it or lump it, but I'll not be submitting my habits for anyone's approval.
I have 4 missions in the top 20 (not counting the brand new all 5's that come and go), this would affect me more than most but I am still in favor of it because I WANT people's missions to get played, even when they are occasionally not mine. As to "forcing" you to search out the missions you want to play instead of just jamming the top of our list with garbage for the convienance of grinders with no respect for the Foundry to start with: too bad.
The foundry is the realm of foundry players. If you want to play some of our missions for dil fine. If you want to play quick crappy missions, fine. Don't try to co-opt our tool to do so. What matters in the foundry is what's best for foundry players and authors. The grinders and their wishes are utterly meaningless. In fact I am more than a little hostile to that crowd given their behavior toward us when the 3 clikie daily went away.
The foundry is the realm of whomever the **** wants to visit it, for reasons not subject to your approval.
What matters in the foundry is up to the individual behind his mouse and keyboard, also not subject to your approval.
YOU are the one arguing that the Foundry is there for your personal dilithium-grinding convenience and that the people who use it for actual story-telling (what it is intended for) should be shafted because you don't personally care for that.
It has a specific purpose: It is a story telling tool.
Never said anything about censoring any mission based on type. I am a published writer and I've been both physically injured and jailed because of standing-up for other people's right to speech. This is an extremely offensive, if sadly typical, remark.
It's part of the product I've purchased with my subscription, and therefore it's "for" whatever the **** I want it to be for.
Cry me a river, your works of literary genius are unpopular. The market has spoken. Deal with it.
You mean, by being right and stuff?
Look, I can understand that you feel this is how you express yourself creatively. But user generated content exists as something for the company to sell to consumers. You're doing it for free, but you're effectively an employee of PWE when you create a foundry mission.
And since it's out of your hands at that point, it becomes the choice of the consumer how they use that UGC. For the stories or for the dil.
I agree that the exploits are insulting to authors. I agree that they can unbalance things as well. Cryptic should have a small team play-testing the missions before approval. That way they can kill the exploit missions before they hit and authors can create short ones that will count towards the wrapper reward. But then that defeats the purpose of UGC: Players doing the dev's jobs for them.
Maybe they can get the last two Champions Online devs to do it since they're not doing anything aside from keeping the servers from rusting.
I recently got out a mission from 0 plays to qualifying, but, I can't say with a good head or not if it was or was not effected by this. Getting out of "review hell" has always been a bit of an issue, it could be said it has expanded out to the first 25 plays. Still, after 5 the general playerbase now sees the mission to start voting without the reviewer tab but, I've seen good missions that have only procured 30 plays after a few months.
I can't say if it is the process building up to qualifying doing harm or not. To make a qualified guess we'd need more data. I'm afraid Cryptic is the only folks with it.
Aye, my new mission is red-texted and now I consider it to be dead on arrival; partly due to testing it before it was developed enough (i.e. several 3-5 min or less tests) both in the Foundry and in Holodeck. The current run through time for me with a very well equipped ship is 25-30 minutes; last night I ran through it with a second player and we spent more than an hour (due to the increased number of ships). Still red-text'd.
I'd be in favor of separating this system a bit to limit this from occurring:
Level 1 - 5-10 minute missions: 320 dil (1/3 standard) 20 marks
Level 2 for 10-20: 640 dil (2/3) 40 marks
Level 3 20-45: 960 dil (what we're currently receiving) 60 marks
Level 4 45+ : 1440 (what we used to receive) 80 marks
This is based on the average run time of the mission. Although, I imagine most missions will be tricked into the Level 4 category initially, after a few run-throughs it'll drop to the more appropriate level.
Is there anyway to copy maps to a new mission?!?
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I did it once by accident but forgot how I did it. A 'save as' option sure would be nice.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
1) it keeps the ratings/status from a prior published project - hence if it was red-flagged before, it's still red-flagged - and the reviews become meaningless or detrimental to your new project. not true - sorry - just tested this and it does remove the ratings! I thought when I created this new mission by reusing a previous one for its maps I did it this way - turns out I just edited the non-archived project.
2) You cannot combine maps from different projects.
This seems like such an obvious option to include in the foundry and it befuddles me to no end that there's not a simple button to transfer your map or save maps independently of projects - especially when they allow you to create such works of space art that you may want to reuse..
The same can be said for your NPCs and their costumes... it's mind-boggling that this isn't an option here.
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
Are you sure? Granted I have not done this for a little while, but the last time I used the import project button, which allows you to create a new mission by copying one of your other missions, published or not, it created an entirely new mission with no ratings on it.
Actually that's not true, the last time I tried it it bugged out on me and didn't copy over any of the maps. So the above is the last time I successfully tried it, lol.
Anyway if this has changed we need to know about it.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Thanks drogyn1701 - It turns out it doesn't keep the ratings! I thought I created my new mission using one of my old maps by the archive method, but I must have just edited the current project instead.
So now my project is still red-text'd but at least in theory the previous times recorded to it are erased. Now all I need to do is get it played a few times to test...
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
I dont think the "15 min rule" itself is a problem. The real problem is the missing transparency. When will a mission be checked? What is the current mission time for the rule? What can be done if the mission slipped out of the rule? ...
One might say the Devs took the most dumb way to implement this foundry obstacle. The easiest way would have been to grant the OR depending on users mission time amount.
But I guess they were a bit upset on the foundry abuse and felt urged to nerf the whole foundry com.
No doubt because those pedestrian philistines didn't appreciate your subtle brilliance.
:rolleyes:
No, because of trolls like you just going around looking to pick fights and cause strife for no particular reason.
Why are you even here? You have absolutely nothing to add to this conversation but BS and trouble-making. You don't make Foundry missions, nor do you play them for any reason but to grind for dilithium as you have already made clear.
I can deal with a troll if he has some wit and flare--you have neither.
So, put up or shut up. Let's see your work so we can all bow down to your genius; otherwise you are nothing but a petulant, ****-talking ***** and you can **** off.
By the by, if no one wants to play these missions why do they have so many thousands of plays? And no, I'm not talking about the exploit missions. Look up any mission on the SBUGC list and see how many nobodies are playing them.
And I will extend my question to you as well: Why, then, are you even here?
I do think that the current design of STO is tilted very heavily toward grinders. STO started out sort of strong in terms of storyline content with the first two FEs, and then it fell straight on its face. The devs have simply not delivered much storyline content, so the type of players who enjoy that are probably not going to stick around. We Foundry authors can do our best, but it's tough when the overall design of the game is not in our favor.
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
OR... maybe games are enhanced by a sense of reward and progress. The RPG part of MMORPG, if you were.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Let's be honest, if they explained what exactly the requirements were in full on laid out clear writing the system would be completely broken in a day without any data on how it worked out.
As for the second thing, this is just a temp situation. They needed to close the loophole giving out a free 1440 DL in 5 minutes with no gameplay or effort. This is what they used. I doubt it will stick.
Dude, AJ, if you think he's a troll, stop feeding him.
There's a difference between saying 'it's time x players divided by average height' or whatnot and saying 'roughly more than 20 minutes, at least X plays, and some filtering by maps' or something.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
My character Tsin'xing