Hey, Mustrum, my friend, just wanted to say Thank You for the vote of confidence (and for Sticky) in the new Character Build forum!
I was thinking, maybe we could get Wishstone to do that with the Accuracy Vs. Defense one, as well... Although, I'm thinking that one should probably stay in the Academy... What do you think? (I also will be suggesting that this one get Stickied in here).
Hey, Mustrum, my friend, just wanted to say Thank You for the vote of confidence (and for Sticky) in the new Character Build forum!
I was thinking, maybe we could get Wishstone to do that with the Accuracy Vs. Defense one, as well... Although, I'm thinking that one should probably stay in the Academy... What do you think? (I also will be suggesting that this one get Stickied in here).
-Big Red
Yes, I thought about your thread and my thread as well. Wishstone mentioned that the Academy is a little full with stickies, which isn't wrong. More would kinda clutter the forum.
I kinda appreciate the change of the "Combat" Feedback section turning into "PvE Gameplay", mirroring "PVP Gameplay", but some gameplay mechanics are universal and don't seem to fit in either. The Accuracy vs Defense could fit into t hat.
Yes, I thought about your thread and my thread as well. Wishstone mentioned that the Academy is a little full with stickies, which isn't wrong. More would kinda clutter the forum.
I kinda appreciate the change of the "Combat" Feedback section turning into "PvE Gameplay", mirroring "PVP Gameplay", but some gameplay mechanics are universal and don't seem to fit in either. The Accuracy vs Defense could fit into t hat.
Well, she'll figure something out.
Well, your thread already got a vote. I do like what Wishstone (and whomever else is tweaking the Forum layout) is doing, and I think that once it is all finished, things will be a lot easier to find... It's the transitions that can be tricky.
In any case, keep up the great work, my friend,
-Big Red
I've updated the information on armor consoles and resistances a little. The actual formula for those are also more complicated. I didn't feel like writing it out, though*, and instead simply refer to the podcast with the Excel sheet describing the math. Blame Deshal for it. Thanks, Deshal, actually. This thread must be kept up-to-date and accurate to deserve its stickiness.
I am running into space problems with that post already, and describing and explaining the formula would probably take too many words. The essential element of the "actual" formula is that it also includes the 75 % resistance cap. The mathematical effect, as Deshal learned through his testing, shows that it can lead to a few percent off the mark.
Here is how it works. There are a lot of diminishing returns at that level. You will see more on an impact with weapons that do more damage. You will also see a higher impact at lower levels because at higher levels, all your bonuses start to diminish.
This is how it works. All values are approximate, and I apologize if I get any of the basic math wrong. Its 10am and I am hopped up on cold medicine fighting off bronchitis.
Here is part of the basic formula: BaseDamage X (1+ sum of all DamBonus)
Let's say you have a weapon that does, say 25 damage (I'm making this value up, but its probably similar to the turret in question).
Its a mark 11, so it has a natural DamBonus 1.05
You are probably in a tier 5 ship that grants a DamBonus of 1
You probably have skills that grant a DamBonus of around 1
Each Damage enhancement has a DamBonus 0.1
Each non-damage enhancement now grants a .025 DamBonus (note, Damage enhancements did not get this extra damage bonus)
So
In the old system, his green weapon, with one Acc enhancement would yield:
25 X (1+3.05) =
25 X (4.05) =
101.25
In the new system, that same green weapon, with one enhancement would gain an additional .025 DamBonus and would yield:
25 X (1+3.075) =
25 X (4.075) =
101.875
In the old system, his purple weapon with two Dam enhancement and one Acc enhancement would do:
25 X (1+3.25) =
25 X (4.25) =
106.25
In the new system, that same purple weapon, with two Dam enhancement and one Acc enhancement would gain one additional .025 DamBonus and would yield:
25 X (1+3.275) =
25 X (4.275) =
106.875
At low level, let's say Lt Grade 2, you would notice more of an impact. Let's compare a Mark 1 weapons.
Same turret would have the same base damage: 25
Its a mark 1, so it has a natural DamBonus 0
You are probably in a tier 1 ship that grants a DamBonus of 0
You probably have no skills that grant a DamBonus , so this value is also 0
Again, each Damage enhancement has a DamBonus 0.1
Again, each non-damage enhancement now grants a .025 DamBonus (note, Damage enhancements did not get this extra damage bonus)
Now a White Mark 1 with no enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+0) =
25 X (1) =
25
Now a Green Mark 1 with 1 Acc enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+0.025) =
25 X (1.025) =
25.625
Now a Green Mark 1 with 1 Dam enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+0.1) =
25 X (1.1) =
27.5
And a Purple Mark 1 with 3 ACC enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+.075) =
25 X (1.075) =
26.875
A Purple Mark 1 with 2 Damage enhancements and one Acc enhancement would yield:
25 X (1+.225) =
25 X (1.225) =
30.625
A Purple Mark 1 with 3 Damage enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+.3) =
25 X (1.3) =
32.5
Thats a lot of math. I hope I got it all right. In any event, it should give you a general idea of what's going on.
Is possible to see a model of what diff skills i would get, from picking the diff skills?
Perhaps you mean: is it possible to see which abilities you unlock for training Bridge Officers, when you put 9 points into the different skills? I mentally use the two words skill and ability interchangeably and have to remember to use "abilities" for the powers we can activate so people know what I'm talking about.
If so, then the skill planner link that Mustrum posted does have that - just click on the skills in the planner, and you will see what BO abilities you can train when you have all 9 points in the description to the right.
I may have to revise a few/lot of aspects in the first post of this thread. There will be several changes in regards to skills when the Tribble build goes to Holodeck.
I wanted to take a moment to explain some of the math behind the skill system. I think there is some confusion on how it works and some things that may be altering perception of the new numbers.
In the old system (and the way ground still works), you could get 18 points from Tier 1, 30 from Tier 2, and 52 from Tier 3, 4 and 5. The idea is, if you owned all 3 skills that affect an ability, then you get a skill bonus of 100 towards that ability. Generally, it works something like this behind the scenes:
First, all skill bonuses are divided by 10. So a skill on 30 becomes 3. In reality, the skill bonus you are getting is actually 3, we just multiply the number in the UI by 10 to make it look cooler. Ok, so Let's say:
Skill_A Tier 1
Skill_B Tier 2
Skill_C Tier 3
Power_A:
Buff (Or damage, or whatever the power does): 10 x (1 + Skill_A + Skill_B + Skill_C)
So, Power_A does 10, but if you had all 3 skills at max, Power_A would do 10 x (1 + .18 + .3 + .52) = 20.
Some abilities we tweaked to only use partial skills. For instance, a Confuse or Disable ability could not be doubled by having max skills. You might only get 50% benefit from your skills. An ability that only got 50% from skills might look like:
Power_B:
Debuff (say a control effect): 10 x (1 + 0.5 x (Skill_A + Skill_B + Skill_C))
So, Power_B does 10, but if you had all 3 skills at max, Power_B would do 15.
Now that was the old system. In the new system, all Space skills give you up to 33. Most of you have noticed that all Console Mods, Deflectors and other items that grant skill bonuses have been reduced to 1/3 of their old value. This is not a nerf. You still get the same benefit from then that you used to. Here is why. The math on the abilities have changed to the following:
Power_A:
Buff (Or damage, or whatever the power does): 10 x (1 + 3 x (Skill_A))
So, Power_A does 10, but if you had all 3 skills at max, Power_A would do 10 x (1 + 3 x .33) = 19.9. (ok, a 0.1 nerf, you caught me )
Alternately, for some Confuse or Disable abilities:
Power_B:
Debuff (say a control effect): 10 x (1 + 1.5 x (Skill_A))
So, Power_B does 10, but if you had all 3 skills at max, Power_B would do 14.95.
So you only get one skill power to modify your abilities, and consoles numbers were reduced in magnitude, but you get 3 times the benefit from each of these. We had planned on changing the number on new space skills to be 99 or 100 per skill, but since ground skills were incomplete, it looked weird and confusing that ground skills were giving so much less than space skills. We did plan on updating all the numbers once ground skills were done. In hindsight, the current numbers may have just been too confusing. We will be working to update them in the coming weeks.
One last thing. Some of you may feel that you can't attain the levels you used to. Although the system is different, and it's not a one-to-one comparison, for the most part, you actually can get more from this system than you used to. The perception may be that you used to be able to, say purchase 9 points in a deflector skill, and buff a lot of my abilities. Now it looks like you have to max 3 or 4 abilities to get the same bonus. That is not actually the case. Before, when you bought a Deflector skill, it did affect a lot of science powers, but only a little bit (as low as 18). What you can do now is purchase 3 points in, say, Flow Capacitors, Shield Emitters, and Graviton Generators, and get 20 in each of those. Since your abilities take 3x the value from skills, thats like getting 60 bonus that will affect 3 different types of abilities - far more than any single skill in the old system. And, yes, the skills cost 50% more, but there are half as many to purchase, which again is a net gain. What may be hard to get used to is that you dont need to put 9 points in every skill you want.
I hope some of this makes sense and helps let you understand what's going on. There is a lot to get used to in the new system. Expect lots of tweaks in the coming weeks. The best way you can help us refine the system is to keep an open mind and let us know how the skill system works in practice, and not how it looks in the UI or on the boards.
We look forward to more of you feedback.
-al
As this is all still work in progres, we may still see changes to the displayed numbers coming, as Geko notices.
But I've seen to many posts so far that claimed that the Joined Trill or the Efficient trait were "nerfed", when they were just adjusted to make sense with the new skill modifiers, and the new list of skills.
Roach has done some testing to compare the effect of skills on his ship statistics. Note that the absolute values may not be that meaningful, as some elements are depending on the specific ship and gear his ship uses, but I think the gist of it is pretty useful and representative.
I just finished running a series of internal tests on both Specialization skills and confirmed that they are fully-functional.
The fact that you are not seeing a display difference on the Status page for your ship stats, is because these skills do not modify your ship's critical hit stats. Instead, they modify your equipped weapons' critical hit stats.
Getting these stats displayed correctly is on our list of UI elements to get fixed, but will not happen over the short term.
As it stands right now, since this information is not readily available to all players as it should be, I'll happily relay the information that you should be able to see as related to these skills.
Both Energy Weapon Specialization and Projectile Weapon Specialization scale the same, as follows:
Feel free to spread this information around. The more folks that understand the way our systems work, the better they can play, and the better their feedback can be on the way things work.
I did edit the quoted post to include the actual quote from CaptainGeko. Also, I removed and changed some obsolete information based on the old skill tree.
Oh, my beloved thread... Not being able to go back to edit the original post is bad for it, since some of the information is subject to change. I may have to recreate it.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Sorry if I posted this in the wrong place. Did not see anything under the Foundry that came close. And since I am new to the Forums I can't start a new thread yet.
This is a quicky, when working in the Foundry and place a ship. I can give it a name and state what type of contact it is (contact or legacy). But when I go to Advanced Behavior to tell the contact what to do (scan, rotate, leak plasma, etc) there are no actions there. It only does it for the ships, any character I create has all its behavior options.
Question: Is this one of the many bugs or is there somewhere else I should go to assign behaviors to ships?
Why are you giving an approximate formula for damage resistance instead of the exact formula?
The original one exploded the post. It was too long to fit in the post, and I didn't have the foresight to reserve additional posts at the start of the thread for myself.
Also, you might want to check all your links. Some of them seem the be broken.
In can't really fix anything anymore. I'd have to remake the thread, but since I am currently not really playing STO... Unlikely to happen.
But someone pointing out if anything changed would have a hope of getting no more misinformation out, and maybe someone else will start to carry the torch.
That old forum move killed a lot of good information out there.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The part where space stats changes are only reflected when you are in a system... is something that needs to be fixed.
You should be able to check stats changes anywhere.
Comments
Sorry, Fresh out of Mean and Snarky here....
Hope that doesn't make you feel too bad.
-Big Red
-Big Red
Still on vacation until June 12th, but was thinking about this, and couldn't help myself.
I've updated the first post with a link to your post.
I was thinking, maybe we could get Wishstone to do that with the Accuracy Vs. Defense one, as well... Although, I'm thinking that one should probably stay in the Academy... What do you think? (I also will be suggesting that this one get Stickied in here).
-Big Red
I kinda appreciate the change of the "Combat" Feedback section turning into "PvE Gameplay", mirroring "PVP Gameplay", but some gameplay mechanics are universal and don't seem to fit in either. The Accuracy vs Defense could fit into t hat.
Well, she'll figure something out.
Well, your thread already got a vote.
In any case, keep up the great work, my friend,
-Big Red
Yes, I'm still on vacation!
I am running into space problems with that post already, and describing and explaining the formula would probably take too many words. The essential element of the "actual" formula is that it also includes the 75 % resistance cap. The mathematical effect, as Deshal learned through his testing, shows that it can lead to a few percent off the mark.
But if this is a question about skills and skill point investment, these threads might be helpful:
Skill Planner: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=184995
Spending SKill Points Wisely: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=166361
Great work @MustrumRidcully.
So much information on one place, if it wheren't already been stickied it should be.
Live long and prosper.
Perhaps you mean: is it possible to see which abilities you unlock for training Bridge Officers, when you put 9 points into the different skills? I mentally use the two words skill and ability interchangeably and have to remember to use "abilities" for the powers we can activate so people know what I'm talking about.
If so, then the skill planner link that Mustrum posted does have that - just click on the skills in the planner, and you will see what BO abilities you can train when you have all 9 points in the description to the right.
But for people to better understand what the changes all encompass, I would like like to cite CaptainGeko here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3851998&postcount=213
As this is all still work in progres, we may still see changes to the displayed numbers coming, as Geko notices.
But I've seen to many posts so far that claimed that the Joined Trill or the Efficient trait were "nerfed", when they were just adjusted to make sense with the new skill modifiers, and the new list of skills.
Like Shield resists.
Roach has done some testing to compare the effect of skills on his ship statistics. Note that the absolute values may not be that meaningful, as some elements are depending on the specific ship and gear his ship uses, but I think the gist of it is pretty useful and representative.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3943072
I did edit the quoted post to include the actual quote from CaptainGeko. Also, I removed and changed some obsolete information based on the old skill tree.
It seems people the people that contributed to this spreadsheed did so in the tread Some new Skill Tree notes.
This Archived Post guy seemed really helpful.
This is a quicky, when working in the Foundry and place a ship. I can give it a name and state what type of contact it is (contact or legacy). But when I go to Advanced Behavior to tell the contact what to do (scan, rotate, leak plasma, etc) there are no actions there. It only does it for the ships, any character I create has all its behavior options.
Question: Is this one of the many bugs or is there somewhere else I should go to assign behaviors to ships?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Why are you giving an approximate formula for damage resistance instead of the exact formula?
Also, you might want to check all your links. Some of them seem the be broken.
In can't really fix anything anymore. I'd have to remake the thread, but since I am currently not really playing STO... Unlikely to happen.
But someone pointing out if anything changed would have a hope of getting no more misinformation out, and maybe someone else will start to carry the torch.
That old forum move killed a lot of good information out there.
Virusdancer posted this useful summary of damage boosting effects (it ignores the specifics of marks and weapon modifiers):
Base Damage
* (1 + sum of Strength boosts)
* (1 + Weapon Power boost (if projectile, 1 + 0))
* (1 + sum of Bonus boosts)
* (1 + Weapon Ability boost (sometimes the ability boost includes the 1 +))
* (1 + Critical Severity)
* Hull Damage Resistance/Shield Damage Reduction
The +13.1% is a Strength boost.
The +7.5% is a Bonus boost.
Of course, virusdancer is not a dev, but this is knowledge gathered from the devs in posts I don't know where to find.
You should be able to check stats changes anywhere.
A UI improvement that is long overdue, imo.