I raised two winter epohhs with bows on, over 8 days. I have enough Romulan Marks to see me through all my reputation projects without having to grind. (400)
Doing the dailies and handing them in at the right time, can double the amount of marks as well.
No you don't have to sit there all day grinding. If you know how to play the game, it can be very relaxing. Hell I get my cap and spend most of my time chatting.
LoL the fact that several of the names are only different by one or two letters, and most of them contain cz near or at the end, it's pretty obvious yeah.
Though I still agree with the point about Dilithium sinks needing a plug.
We have a few posts because, by this time are not so bad as this.
There's no fake accounts, we only Czechoslovak fleets.
DarthTimmy
Um. No. Fleets are supposed to be 25 man or more. Sooooo yeah. This cost is supposed to be divided among that many people. So let's do some math. 200,000 divided by 25 is 8000. Hm. 8000. Such a hardship.
Your point is moot.
That's assuming all 25 members actually contribute.
I have yet to be in a fleet where a majority of the fleet members have actually done so. Most of the time it's left to a few hardcore players to do the lion's share of the donating.
Your point has also been rendered moot, for it relies on total member participation, which even in a 25+ fleet is near impossible at any given time.
Agreed,.. and this goes for the mos dilithium requirements. This is NOT suppose to feel like work - which it does. Most people cannot stay on STO for hours per day. I would like to.. but I can't.
We request reduction of Dilithium for Special projects. Since Embassy is working, we are forced to gather 400.000 dilithium. After that the game is no longer a game and game becomes another hard and stressful work.
So we request reduce to half: 100.000 for Starbase and 100.000 for Embassy.
!!!And Romulan and Omega mark requirements for "Reputation" are too very exaggerated!!!
Thank you.
Lenyx
Go to work, come home, log on, work some more.....yep this is how the work ummm i mean game is now.
SO yea i agree, please Listen to this guy (and all others that request this change) Cryptic / DEVS as it is needed for us to have fun and not feel like we are working
But you are working in order to build something that you want. In the same way that you assemble flat pack furniture.
This game is free to play and get all the perks of the base and the unlocks it provides. Putting in some effort to actually earn these perks gives the sense of achievement otherwise lacking in the game.
The dilithium costs are a bit steep, but then again they unlock some of the best content in the game. At the end of the day they need to be high, otherwise where is the challenge in it. If you are not prepared to work and earn the dilithium in game. I might suggest you pay some of your hard earned money for the immediate reward.
If you don't want to spend money, you have to work to earn it. At the end of the day the Devs need to eat too.
This thread was made by someone who is an instant gratification and lazy player.
Allow me to remind you guys of a few things. Fleets are designed to have 25+ active members. Also, starbases are not supposed to be fast. They are designed to take a long time, and be a long term investment.
So please, stop doing this instant gratification and laziness bull TRIBBLE. It's sickening and pathetic.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
If you reach a point when a game can be considered work and the term is freely used by others when discussing that aspect. Then imo that game has failed.
There are a number of resources required not just dilithium, the other resources require time and effort.
I would point out I could buy doff packs to supplement starbase requirements.
This is my point there is a world of difference between COULD and HAVE TO. This is something I can obtain ingame and I feel this balance is ok. I could buy doff packs for speedy advancement and right now its a better return than dilithium costs.
Dilithium should be balanced in the same way, that I COULD not HAVE TO.
The Dilithium market in my and at least some others view has crashed to a point its a waste of Zen for what is required.
I and many others don't have thousands or hundreds of Zen to throw into buying dilithium. Its too much.
Also the 25+ fleet model is crippingly unrealistic for many fleets. For casual players its based around other player interaction.
As this is a social game many fleets tend to build around 1 or 2 - 5 man teams so a dozen or so active members in a week tends to be the higher limit. Anything more than that and the social aspect drops out, who working would have time to talk to 25+ people each and every day and form meaningful friendships from this.
hmm comunitation array III --- 324000D, upgrade starbase III 648000 dilithia. This is very little dilithium and 10800 fleetmark. Very very best. I look forward to starbase Tier IV. Millions of dilithium and thousands FM. :mad::mad::eek:
hmm comunitation array III --- 324000D, upgrade starbase III 648000 dilithia. This is very little dilithium and 10800 fleetmark. Very very best. I look forward to starbase Tier IV. Millions of dilithium and thousands FM. :mad::mad::eek:
Yeah, our fleet discussed these prices and have decided to call it at tier 3. It's a drain and a half getting that far, the projects for tiers 4 and 5 are just ridiculous. Shame that we'll never get the fleet ships we want, but what can you do eh.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Dili costs overall are beyond a joke which is why the dilli markets crashed , Now some say about CO to compares to STO forgetting that in CO your "fleet" don't need to have millions upon millions of dilli for fleet projects and 100s of thousands for personal unlocks.
To the people moaning about old stf being random , yes they were but after 5 elites you could afford a basic [Borg] weapon or after 8 elites afford the whole borg ship set. Now? you couldn't get a [Borg] item that easily.
Given the ridiculous costs to dilli ingame now they either need to up the rate to 12-15k instead of 8k OR reduce the dilli required by around 40%-50%
I'll post here what I put on the Dil Re-Run announcement:
I'm sure I read something about Project Re-runs would be reduced in cost. I run a small fleet, of 20-30 members with up to 10 that are regularly on at some point. Yes the projects are achievable, but at a cost. 200k Dilithium for a pretty starbase seems a bit excessive, we've still got quite a few projects to complete for the special ones and at the same time we're trying to push our way through the starbase tiers. They could replace the dilithium requirement with Starbase Provisions (like the embassy ones), whether they make it 5000 or 10000, I dont mind, it would be more achievable at least. I think the introduction of dilithium was one of the worst ideas in STO. All this one currency game idea seems to have flown out the window. It just doesn't feel very Trek to be paying out all this dilithium all the time, it's not a currency. Federation isn't suppose to use money anyway, how about focusing on having the requirements based on the commodities or just lowering the cost of the special projects based on fleet size. I still think a cosmetic upgrade should not fall into the same costs as end game gear, I'm sorry but if all something does is look pretty, it shouldn't be worthy having to spend dilithium on it when we can only refine 8k a day.
Cryptic say they've looked at the scaling system and people would take advantage of it if projects were scaled to fleet size. I've looked at this and it could be done in a way that would make it harder for people to take advantage of. All you would have to do is put in a really long time delay for when the size of a fleet gets reduced below a certain threshold. Say 1-2 weeks for the project requirements to get reduced based on unique account names in a fleet and not actual characters.
The whole dilithium system just seems to have gotten silly, yes I can make more than the 8k a day and I wouldn't want everything handed to me on a silver platter, at the same time I don't think smaller groups should be punished. Of course it should get tougher as you get closer to your goal, but not so tough for a small group that you start thinking, "Why bother?". Even with the new ways to earn dilithium, some things seem unachievable at times. I'm sure Cryptic are listening to someone from WoW suggesting how to change their game, cause I use to earn my dilithium with DoFFs and upgrading them at the Academy, then they increased the cost by ALOT. I play this game for the social aspect and to escape from the stress of RL - Alot of my fleet members are either married, have kids or in full time work. We won't quit at getting through the projects, but it can get very disheartening at times.
This has been bugging me for a bit.
I like the rep system, just like I like the fleet advancement system.
Good and bad on both, but mostly good... I think.
One thing I find insulting though, is to require dilithium more than once for the same item.
(adv fleet weapons=Dil for provisions->Dil for the weapon on TOP of fleet credits).
One constant for both Fleet and Rep, is the obscene dilithium requirements.
Rep costs are really just a drop in the bucket compared to special projects. And two of them at a time, to boot. (Fleet+Embassy).
All that said, from a business standpoint, it makes sense that they are trying to get us to burn all of our dilithium.
If we are throwing it all into projects/rep/items, then we have none left to buy zen with.
If we have no dil to buy zen with, then we must buy Zen with real money.
And if we need more dil? We CAN buy zen with real money, then sell it on the dil exchange... for ever lowering prices. (less return for your Z).
Both instances are win-win for PWE, and lose-lose for us.
But I think they need to find a happy medium between profitability and having some semblance of respect for their customers to at LEAST pretend they're not fu... *ahem* milking us rather, for all we're worth.
I understand this is difficult for all.
Cryptic wants this whole thing to keep people busy for as long as possible and drain as many ressources as possible, same for the Reputation system.
Of course these methods are fairly brutal, but when we had high project times on Reputation people went nuts aswell.
Requirements can be low only in either time or cost - not both, because everybody would be finished very quickly.
Either way Cryptic could handle it would make people angry, so they went with the way that earns more money.
This has been bugging me for a bit.
I like the rep system, just like I like the fleet advancement system.
Good and bad on both, but mostly good... I think.
One thing I find insulting though, is to require dilithium more than once for the same item.
(adv fleet weapons=Dil for provisions->Dil for the weapon on TOP of fleet credits).
One constant for both Fleet and Rep, is the obscene dilithium requirements.
Rep costs are really just a drop in the bucket compared to special projects. And two of them at a time, to boot. (Fleet+Embassy).
All that said, from a business standpoint, it makes sense that they are trying to get us to burn all of our dilithium.
If we are throwing it all into projects/rep/items, then we have none left to buy zen with.
If we have no dil to buy zen with, then we must buy Zen with real money.
And if we need more dil? We CAN buy zen with real money, then sell it on the dil exchange... for ever lowering prices. (less return for your Z).
Both instances are win-win for PWE, and lose-lose for us.
But I think they need to find a happy medium between profitability and having some semblance of respect for their customers to at LEAST pretend they're not fu... *ahem* milking us rather, for all we're worth.
This thread was made by someone who is an instant gratification and lazy player.
Allow me to remind you guys of a few things. Fleets are designed to have 25+ active members. Also, starbases are not supposed to be fast. They are designed to take a long time, and be a long term investment.
So please, stop doing this instant gratification and laziness bull TRIBBLE. It's sickening and pathetic.
And this thread was made by developer STO or player rent by STO or a man who does not work and the whole day playing games - STO. And who said how much players must be active per fleet? (Btw, this sentence revealed you from STO collaboration) And one more thing: many players - people after reaching lvl 50 dont log-in to the STO. This is big problem. Because there is no one thing does (that) hold them.
648.000 for upgrade on tier III, 324.000 for upgrade shipyard, 324.000 for upgrade fabricator (ENG), 450.000 for upgrade transwarp conduit and 324.000 for upgrade comunitation array. Altogether 2,070,000 dilithium. Plus embassy, reputation store, fleetbase store and other.
This is outrageous!!!
And this thread was made by developer STO or player rent by STO or a man who does not work and the whole day playing games - STO. And who said how much players must be active per fleet? (Btw, this sentence revealed you from STO collaboration) And one more thing: many players - people after reaching lvl 50 dont log-in to the STO. This is big problem. Because there is no one thing does (that) hold them.
ROFL....
OOoooh man you made my day. Thank you very much for the great laugh I got from your post. First off, I didn't make the thread, I made that post. Error #1. Secondly, I don't have the pleasure of working for cryptic, and I have more self-respect than to work for PWE. I have a few dozen people that can tell you that's the case, and most (if not ALL) of the dev team will tell you they don't even know me.
And as for your "btw, this sentence revealed you from STO collaboration" bit? LOL. It is a well known fact that they designed the Starbase system around a 25+ player fleet. It has been said in Dev blogs, podcasts, ask cryptics, and a number of youtube vids showing interviews. So... no. Sorry to say that most of your post, albeit amusing, is moot. And if your fleet cannot be bothered to log on to donate even a measly 500 dil per player per day (um... yeah... lore mission in the academy? easy 480? plus a quick empire defense on the KDF side, and a sh'mar on the fed side, and BANG, you have your 500 dil. NOT HARD PEOPLE) then that's not my problem.
Peace my amusingly ignorant friend.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I'm in a casual 100+ member T3 fleet, and I only play for 1~3 hours a day. The new Investigate Officer Reports fix has helped us tremendously already, and our group enjoys the journey to T5 for what it is.
I also use my KDF alt to farm dil, which I then transfer to my Fed main. Converting surplus reputation marks to dilithium helps, too (I only want the reputation, not the gear).
Perhaps if you Czechs got more players in your fleet, or merged with a larger existing one (maybe a generic European fleet), your dilithium funding issues would be resolved?
Laws of thermodynamics as applied to life: 0 - You must play the game. 1 - You can't win. 2 - You can't break even. 3 - You can't quit.
think some of the lower tier SB and Embassy upgrades are bad
T4 SB is 1.9 Million Dilithium. Even if you have 25 members actively working on the SB, that is 76000 dil per person. If everyone is dedicated to their 8k per day, it would take 9.5 days to gather the necessary dil. But that is also putting off any personal projects, like one of the new threat consoles from the embassy or getting dil together to trade for zen to buy the fleet modules for the spiffy new Fleet Advanced Escort you have been eying.
Plus this is coming off the tail end of the T4 Military (for my fleet), which is a few hundred thousand in itself.
I can see T4 stalling ALOT of smaller fleets for a long time, unless they have members that were sitting on tons of dilithium pre-S6 from STF grinding and nothing to spend the dil on.
Something needs to change somewhere with Dil. Kind of a slap in the face having to funnel in all that Dilithium to get access to equipment only to have it require even more dilithium to buy the new gear and consoles, plus fleet credits.
To be fair the game does give you time to recover your dilithium with project completion times, but the less active members your fleet has, the more insignificant this downtime becomes.
Comments
Doing the dailies and handing them in at the right time, can double the amount of marks as well.
No you don't have to sit there all day grinding. If you know how to play the game, it can be very relaxing. Hell I get my cap and spend most of my time chatting.
We have a few posts because, by this time are not so bad as this.
There's no fake accounts, we only Czechoslovak fleets.
DarthTimmy
That's assuming all 25 members actually contribute.
I have yet to be in a fleet where a majority of the fleet members have actually done so. Most of the time it's left to a few hardcore players to do the lion's share of the donating.
Your point has also been rendered moot, for it relies on total member participation, which even in a 25+ fleet is near impossible at any given time.
Go to work, come home, log on, work some more.....yep this is how the work ummm i mean game is now.
SO yea i agree, please Listen to this guy (and all others that request this change) Cryptic / DEVS as it is needed for us to have fun and not feel like we are working
This game is free to play and get all the perks of the base and the unlocks it provides. Putting in some effort to actually earn these perks gives the sense of achievement otherwise lacking in the game.
The dilithium costs are a bit steep, but then again they unlock some of the best content in the game. At the end of the day they need to be high, otherwise where is the challenge in it. If you are not prepared to work and earn the dilithium in game. I might suggest you pay some of your hard earned money for the immediate reward.
If you don't want to spend money, you have to work to earn it. At the end of the day the Devs need to eat too.
Allow me to remind you guys of a few things. Fleets are designed to have 25+ active members. Also, starbases are not supposed to be fast. They are designed to take a long time, and be a long term investment.
So please, stop doing this instant gratification and laziness bull TRIBBLE. It's sickening and pathetic.
There are a number of resources required not just dilithium, the other resources require time and effort.
I would point out I could buy doff packs to supplement starbase requirements.
This is my point there is a world of difference between COULD and HAVE TO. This is something I can obtain ingame and I feel this balance is ok. I could buy doff packs for speedy advancement and right now its a better return than dilithium costs.
Dilithium should be balanced in the same way, that I COULD not HAVE TO.
The Dilithium market in my and at least some others view has crashed to a point its a waste of Zen for what is required.
I and many others don't have thousands or hundreds of Zen to throw into buying dilithium. Its too much.
Also the 25+ fleet model is crippingly unrealistic for many fleets. For casual players its based around other player interaction.
As this is a social game many fleets tend to build around 1 or 2 - 5 man teams so a dozen or so active members in a week tends to be the higher limit. Anything more than that and the social aspect drops out, who working would have time to talk to 25+ people each and every day and form meaningful friendships from this.
Sincerely Yours,
Vice-Admiral Kerayz
Yeah, our fleet discussed these prices and have decided to call it at tier 3. It's a drain and a half getting that far, the projects for tiers 4 and 5 are just ridiculous. Shame that we'll never get the fleet ships we want, but what can you do eh.
Dili costs overall are beyond a joke which is why the dilli markets crashed , Now some say about CO to compares to STO forgetting that in CO your "fleet" don't need to have millions upon millions of dilli for fleet projects and 100s of thousands for personal unlocks.
To the people moaning about old stf being random , yes they were but after 5 elites you could afford a basic [Borg] weapon or after 8 elites afford the whole borg ship set. Now? you couldn't get a [Borg] item that easily.
Given the ridiculous costs to dilli ingame now they either need to up the rate to 12-15k instead of 8k OR reduce the dilli required by around 40%-50%
Cryptic say they've looked at the scaling system and people would take advantage of it if projects were scaled to fleet size. I've looked at this and it could be done in a way that would make it harder for people to take advantage of. All you would have to do is put in a really long time delay for when the size of a fleet gets reduced below a certain threshold. Say 1-2 weeks for the project requirements to get reduced based on unique account names in a fleet and not actual characters.
The whole dilithium system just seems to have gotten silly, yes I can make more than the 8k a day and I wouldn't want everything handed to me on a silver platter, at the same time I don't think smaller groups should be punished. Of course it should get tougher as you get closer to your goal, but not so tough for a small group that you start thinking, "Why bother?". Even with the new ways to earn dilithium, some things seem unachievable at times. I'm sure Cryptic are listening to someone from WoW suggesting how to change their game, cause I use to earn my dilithium with DoFFs and upgrading them at the Academy, then they increased the cost by ALOT. I play this game for the social aspect and to escape from the stress of RL - Alot of my fleet members are either married, have kids or in full time work. We won't quit at getting through the projects, but it can get very disheartening at times.
I like the rep system, just like I like the fleet advancement system.
Good and bad on both, but mostly good... I think.
One thing I find insulting though, is to require dilithium more than once for the same item.
(adv fleet weapons=Dil for provisions->Dil for the weapon on TOP of fleet credits).
One constant for both Fleet and Rep, is the obscene dilithium requirements.
Rep costs are really just a drop in the bucket compared to special projects. And two of them at a time, to boot. (Fleet+Embassy).
All that said, from a business standpoint, it makes sense that they are trying to get us to burn all of our dilithium.
If we are throwing it all into projects/rep/items, then we have none left to buy zen with.
If we have no dil to buy zen with, then we must buy Zen with real money.
And if we need more dil? We CAN buy zen with real money, then sell it on the dil exchange... for ever lowering prices. (less return for your Z).
Both instances are win-win for PWE, and lose-lose for us.
But I think they need to find a happy medium between profitability and having some semblance of respect for their customers to at LEAST pretend they're not fu... *ahem* milking us rather, for all we're worth.
In conclusion:
The dilithium costs are... well, you know.
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Cryptic wants this whole thing to keep people busy for as long as possible and drain as many ressources as possible, same for the Reputation system.
Of course these methods are fairly brutal, but when we had high project times on Reputation people went nuts aswell.
Requirements can be low only in either time or cost - not both, because everybody would be finished very quickly.
Either way Cryptic could handle it would make people angry, so they went with the way that earns more money.
He's dead, Jim.
Everything you say makes perfect sense. Also, your avatar is awesome.
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
This is outrageous!!!
ROFL....
OOoooh man you made my day. Thank you very much for the great laugh I got from your post. First off, I didn't make the thread, I made that post. Error #1. Secondly, I don't have the pleasure of working for cryptic, and I have more self-respect than to work for PWE. I have a few dozen people that can tell you that's the case, and most (if not ALL) of the dev team will tell you they don't even know me.
And as for your "btw, this sentence revealed you from STO collaboration" bit? LOL. It is a well known fact that they designed the Starbase system around a 25+ player fleet. It has been said in Dev blogs, podcasts, ask cryptics, and a number of youtube vids showing interviews. So... no. Sorry to say that most of your post, albeit amusing, is moot. And if your fleet cannot be bothered to log on to donate even a measly 500 dil per player per day (um... yeah... lore mission in the academy? easy 480? plus a quick empire defense on the KDF side, and a sh'mar on the fed side, and BANG, you have your 500 dil. NOT HARD PEOPLE) then that's not my problem.
Peace my amusingly ignorant friend.
I also use my KDF alt to farm dil, which I then transfer to my Fed main. Converting surplus reputation marks to dilithium helps, too (I only want the reputation, not the gear).
Perhaps if you Czechs got more players in your fleet, or merged with a larger existing one (maybe a generic European fleet), your dilithium funding issues would be resolved?
T4 SB is 1.9 Million Dilithium. Even if you have 25 members actively working on the SB, that is 76000 dil per person. If everyone is dedicated to their 8k per day, it would take 9.5 days to gather the necessary dil. But that is also putting off any personal projects, like one of the new threat consoles from the embassy or getting dil together to trade for zen to buy the fleet modules for the spiffy new Fleet Advanced Escort you have been eying.
Plus this is coming off the tail end of the T4 Military (for my fleet), which is a few hundred thousand in itself.
I can see T4 stalling ALOT of smaller fleets for a long time, unless they have members that were sitting on tons of dilithium pre-S6 from STF grinding and nothing to spend the dil on.
Something needs to change somewhere with Dil. Kind of a slap in the face having to funnel in all that Dilithium to get access to equipment only to have it require even more dilithium to buy the new gear and consoles, plus fleet credits.
To be fair the game does give you time to recover your dilithium with project completion times, but the less active members your fleet has, the more insignificant this downtime becomes.