Then stop trying to change the game to suit your personal definitions of how the classes should be played.
Even AlexCobra is not as bad as you in his crusade for better Cruiser gameplay. He doesn't wish to handicap teh tactical toon or escort for doing what the class is designed to do. He actually recognizes the need for some changes to gameplay in general as oppossed to your somewhat specific attacks on the Escort or tac class.
Mods, please close this thread. It is devolving into something nobody can want.
Oh no doubts, it fell off the common sense ladder at the first post
He did. He used a Tactical captain in the Peg'Hu Veteran KDF ship (a ship with a Tactical Commander BOff since its a Destroyer) and found the Elite STFs too easy.
Now he wants to nerf the tactical Class to make his Cruiser feel better and his Engineer choice look better in his own eyes rather than aproach the problem from the logical direction and remove the DPS based scoring system to replace it with a flat system for mission rewards where currently he feels the best gear goes to the highest damage dealer.
Sophie was the subject of some small discussion last night in chat and how he, like others, are on this holy crusade to fix a problem with the Tactical class that does not exist rather than fix the rewards validation issue that does exist in STO.
Frankly, we all agreed he is acting in a selfish manner asking for a Nerf to tactical or a direct buff the Cruisers and Engineers while completely overlooking the easier fix to an issue that doesn't exist within the tactical class.
absolutely true...the mechanic to do so is already in place anyway...just undervalued. for instance fleet actions...it is claimed by the devs...and i do believe that the mission objectives are a factor for your ranking in the end, but i can easily outrank somebody that did 80% of the mission objectives, if i just do 20% of the objectives and 80% of the dmg...thats just wrong.
but, and there is the actual fact where it is balanced around: each class can get a DPS ship/abilities and even the odds...it is just the player that chose to do fleet actions in ships that are less favoured by the mission and reward mechanic.
players force themselves into roles, and if you want to do a mission that primarely requires DPS, well a support cruiser is the obvious wrong choice.
True, it would be a hell of a lot more convenient for everybody to fly around in the ship he likes best and be competitive in each grp mission, but that is simply not the current state of the game.
Since 90% of the missions are still focused on DPS, a tac in an escort will allways have a better chance of winning than a sci in a cruiser.
for ground thats a different story, since i rarely do ground, i really have no opinion on that. Just saying, you can win romulan temple with a sci and a heal kid if you try hard and you are lucky.
absolutely true...the mechanic to do so is already in place anyway...just undervalued. for instance fleet actions...it is claimed by the devs...and i do believe that the mission objectives are a factor for your ranking in the end, but i can easily outrank somebody that did 80% of the mission objectives, if i just do 20% of the objectives and 80% of the dmg...thats just wrong.
I agree completely. STFs, Fleet assingments, any mission that normall pays rewards to the highest DPS leader neads to be reconfigured to pay a flat reward instead with a random chance of getting the "sought after" items than everyone hopes they get when rewards are handed out.
but, and there is the actual fact where it is balanced around: each class can get a DPS ship/abilities and even the odds...it is just the player that chose to do fleet actions in ships that are less favoured by the mission and reward mechanic.
players force themselves into roles, and if you want to do a mission that primarely requires DPS, well a support cruiser is the obvious wrong choice.
this is where the issue gives me gas. We have choices of vessels, equipment, BOffs, even the class we choose to play and yet some players refuse to use those choices and unstead want the game to favor thier "fan favorite" vessel, class, or whatever rather than adapt to the game.
True, it would be a hell of a lot more convenient for everybody to fly around in the ship he likes best and be competitive in each grp mission, but that is simply not the current state of the game. Since 90% of the missions are still focused on DPS, a tac in an escort will allways have a better chance of winning than a sci in a cruiser.
Hence why I say that needs to change. Remove DPS as the defining factor in rewards payout in a mission.
The "classes" in this game are already way WAY to similar... I don't really understand why anyone would re-roll after maxing out one character, no matter what class.
I think the main issue is that the engs and scis don't get to feel like "the hero" (as stated in the OP) but that again doesn't have anything to do with classes - it has to do with the simply dismal UI and game design of STO. It was that way ever since beta, people were complaining about it and now that I came back to take a quick look (since it's free and all that) I noticed that literally nothing has improved.
Just implement a proper damage and healing meter for starters... you know, those strange bars that WOW has since 2004. That might motivate people to play a healer because then other people can actually see that they are pulling their weight.
Sadly all this talk and all the suggestions on the forum are utterly irrelevant - Cryptic isn't trying to provide a good game, they just want to milk the players for cash. Anyone who doesn't see this is basically a lost cause anyway (and likely will suck no matter what class they play).
I think the main issue is that the engs and scis don't get to feel like "the hero" (as stated in the OP) but that again doesn't have anything to do with classes - it has to do with the simply dismal UI and game design of STO. It was that way ever since beta, people were complaining about it and now that I came back to take a quick look (since it's free and all that) I noticed that literally nothing has improved.
The game is written for the Pew-Pew player and that is why the Tactical class shines. The game is designed for it.
Fix the game not nueter the tactical class is the way to go.
Just implement a proper damage and healing meter for starters... you know, those strange bars that WOW has since 2004. That might motivate people to play a healer because then other people can actually see that they are pulling their weight.
Or like GW2. Participation gets the same reward no matter how much I contribute to a fight or mission completion.
Sadly all this talk and all the suggestions on the forum are utterly irrelevant - Cryptic isn't trying to provide a good game, they just want to milk the players for cash. Anyone who doesn't see this is basically a lost cause anyway (and likely will suck no matter what class they play).
All evidence points that way but that is no reason why we must not keep trying to get a better game out of Cryptic. They have a good looking product, good people. They just need to polish the game and refine it to be smoother and fairer to all the classes.
If we, as players, continue to push for changes based on our ego then this game is doomed as far as I am concerned becuase as fans we will never come to a consensus on what is balanced or fair to all, and not just to ourselves.
I haven't read the entire thread, and the fact that Soph is calling for it to be closed is a bad sign, but I'll throw in anyway.
I'd like to see MW for sure and maybe RSF get a change so they can be used on teammates. Leave the rest alone for now and give that 6 months to settle, then see where Engineers are. My 2 EC.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
That, I can do. The discussion (and I use that term loosely) doesn't seem to be constructive.
Closed.
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Comments
R.I.P
absolutely true...the mechanic to do so is already in place anyway...just undervalued. for instance fleet actions...it is claimed by the devs...and i do believe that the mission objectives are a factor for your ranking in the end, but i can easily outrank somebody that did 80% of the mission objectives, if i just do 20% of the objectives and 80% of the dmg...thats just wrong.
but, and there is the actual fact where it is balanced around: each class can get a DPS ship/abilities and even the odds...it is just the player that chose to do fleet actions in ships that are less favoured by the mission and reward mechanic.
players force themselves into roles, and if you want to do a mission that primarely requires DPS, well a support cruiser is the obvious wrong choice.
True, it would be a hell of a lot more convenient for everybody to fly around in the ship he likes best and be competitive in each grp mission, but that is simply not the current state of the game.
Since 90% of the missions are still focused on DPS, a tac in an escort will allways have a better chance of winning than a sci in a cruiser.
for ground thats a different story, since i rarely do ground, i really have no opinion on that. Just saying, you can win romulan temple with a sci and a heal kid if you try hard and you are lucky.
R.I.P
I think the main issue is that the engs and scis don't get to feel like "the hero" (as stated in the OP) but that again doesn't have anything to do with classes - it has to do with the simply dismal UI and game design of STO. It was that way ever since beta, people were complaining about it and now that I came back to take a quick look (since it's free and all that) I noticed that literally nothing has improved.
Just implement a proper damage and healing meter for starters... you know, those strange bars that WOW has since 2004. That might motivate people to play a healer because then other people can actually see that they are pulling their weight.
Sadly all this talk and all the suggestions on the forum are utterly irrelevant - Cryptic isn't trying to provide a good game, they just want to milk the players for cash. Anyone who doesn't see this is basically a lost cause anyway (and likely will suck no matter what class they play).
R.I.P
I'd like to see MW for sure and maybe RSF get a change so they can be used on teammates. Leave the rest alone for now and give that 6 months to settle, then see where Engineers are. My 2 EC.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
I believe I'm going to have to agree that it is going in that direction, and has possibly even visited that destination more than once.
That, I can do. The discussion (and I use that term loosely) doesn't seem to be constructive.
Closed.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek