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Why STO is still better: My perspective
avarseir
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So they also went F2P, finally. I have actually been very excited about SWTOR for a long time ever since the rumors about it started circulating back when Dragon Age 1 came out.
I didn't buy the game when it came out because I have a habit of letting the game mature before jumping in. One year down the road, I'm kinda happy I didn't buy it. But, when they went F2P.. I was in a sense jumping for joy.
I jumped too soon though...
To ensure I'm not biased, I have to establish that I love both ST and SW almost equally. ST provides me with a very realistic feel and immersion about how our future would be like while SW represents my passion for action and yearning for things that are a little unrealistic (The Force).
So here's goes:
1. SWTOR's F2P model is extremely restrictive.. You gotta pay for everything. You even need to pay to earn XP at a full rate (As F2P, you're earning like 30% less XP). I'm only level 20, so I can't say if higher tier content will be free. Although I wont be surprised if they charge you too.
Also, certain skills are obtained at higher level if you're F2P. For example: Sprint ability only unlocks at lvl 15 for F2P while subs get it at lvl 1 (i think).
Buying commendation items are also more expensive for F2P. You need 30% more commendation points as a F2P.
>> Its almost like they're telling you: Don't play my game if you can't afford it, sucker! Not a very good business attitude right?
STO doesn't restrict you in any way at all in terms of playing the game normally. So, if you really want to be F2P, you can definitely be F2P. I mean, as a casual player, you're perfectly fine being in your T4 ship and still enjoy all the end-game content.
2. Social interaction is quite bad in SWTOR. I couldn't find public queues for Flashpoints, Heroic/Group instances. This can be really frustrating especially if you're low level player when everyone is already at max level.
Guilds in SWTOR is, well, the normal kind of guild. I haven't really explored much of what perks you get from being in a guild but I expect that it should be limited to just having a guild bank or something. STO has starbases, embassies
3. Servers are quite bad.. I mean I get frequent disconnects in STO too, but it happens way too often in SWTOR.
4. Space battles are..well.. can't comment yet because I've yet to even get my space ship in SWTOR at lvl 20. But really, how can SWTOR hold a candle against STO in space battles where even in the movies SW space battles are featured less than their ground action.
5. You can't alt-tab this game and switch your windows quickly.. means you can't play this in the office!! I've been playing STO during work hours and was able to switch between windows fairly quickly :P
6. Reserved for future post
However, I have to balance this argument:
1. SWTOR still has the most coveted weapons: The lightsabers! We have nanopulse but its no lightsaber.
2. The Jedi effect: You're a Jedi!! (pardon me if you play a smuggler or bounty hunter, no pun intended, this is my perspective anyway).
3. Companion interaction is marvellous. Really made them feel as companions rather than just cannon fodder. If cryptic ever got to developing the 1st officer feature maybe it can match SWTOR somehow.
4. Storyline quests are very immersive and it connects. Its bioware afterall, expect no less from them
OK - this has been a long post.. I'll update this thread as I move along in SWTOR but getting disconnected every 10 steps is not funny and is rather frustrating.
I didn't buy the game when it came out because I have a habit of letting the game mature before jumping in. One year down the road, I'm kinda happy I didn't buy it. But, when they went F2P.. I was in a sense jumping for joy.
I jumped too soon though...
To ensure I'm not biased, I have to establish that I love both ST and SW almost equally. ST provides me with a very realistic feel and immersion about how our future would be like while SW represents my passion for action and yearning for things that are a little unrealistic (The Force).
So here's goes:
1. SWTOR's F2P model is extremely restrictive.. You gotta pay for everything. You even need to pay to earn XP at a full rate (As F2P, you're earning like 30% less XP). I'm only level 20, so I can't say if higher tier content will be free. Although I wont be surprised if they charge you too.
Also, certain skills are obtained at higher level if you're F2P. For example: Sprint ability only unlocks at lvl 15 for F2P while subs get it at lvl 1 (i think).
Buying commendation items are also more expensive for F2P. You need 30% more commendation points as a F2P.
>> Its almost like they're telling you: Don't play my game if you can't afford it, sucker! Not a very good business attitude right?
STO doesn't restrict you in any way at all in terms of playing the game normally. So, if you really want to be F2P, you can definitely be F2P. I mean, as a casual player, you're perfectly fine being in your T4 ship and still enjoy all the end-game content.
2. Social interaction is quite bad in SWTOR. I couldn't find public queues for Flashpoints, Heroic/Group instances. This can be really frustrating especially if you're low level player when everyone is already at max level.
Guilds in SWTOR is, well, the normal kind of guild. I haven't really explored much of what perks you get from being in a guild but I expect that it should be limited to just having a guild bank or something. STO has starbases, embassies
3. Servers are quite bad.. I mean I get frequent disconnects in STO too, but it happens way too often in SWTOR.
4. Space battles are..well.. can't comment yet because I've yet to even get my space ship in SWTOR at lvl 20. But really, how can SWTOR hold a candle against STO in space battles where even in the movies SW space battles are featured less than their ground action.
5. You can't alt-tab this game and switch your windows quickly.. means you can't play this in the office!! I've been playing STO during work hours and was able to switch between windows fairly quickly :P
6. Reserved for future post
However, I have to balance this argument:
1. SWTOR still has the most coveted weapons: The lightsabers! We have nanopulse but its no lightsaber.
2. The Jedi effect: You're a Jedi!! (pardon me if you play a smuggler or bounty hunter, no pun intended, this is my perspective anyway).
3. Companion interaction is marvellous. Really made them feel as companions rather than just cannon fodder. If cryptic ever got to developing the 1st officer feature maybe it can match SWTOR somehow.
4. Storyline quests are very immersive and it connects. Its bioware afterall, expect no less from them
OK - this has been a long post.. I'll update this thread as I move along in SWTOR but getting disconnected every 10 steps is not funny and is rather frustrating.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by avarseir on
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I remember having a bad feeling when DA2 came out concerning BioWare. Before that I had built SWTOR up in my head to being the greatest game ever. It was going to be BioWare, and Star Wars, how could it not be great. I gave up in the beta, when my jedi had to take a cab, and kill 10 flesh ripper things, with his "practice" lightsaber. I remember thinking "This is really stupid, what's my guy doing running around with a practice lightsaber?" "Scouring the galaxy for a sparring partner?" It's my belief that that miserable piece of crapware in a SW wrapper, and the shoddy, half-baked, ending of ME3 are what forced the good doctors to retire.
All of the things they did was logical. Made sence. And in the end they put all there balls in the same basket with swotr and lost.
They blamed the fans for it and quit.
It is ok to fail, but it isn't ok to blame the consumer for failing.
Cryptic does the same.
They love to blame everything and everyone about not being able to fix the worst faction in mmo history.
"Data says this..." "17%" "no resources but buy this...."
But in the end they didn't even step up to the plate.
The macrotransactions (that's right, there's NOTHING micro about the Z-Store), lockbox scams, and the starbase grind are easy enough to ignore or spend your entire life playing to advance.
Sorry to hear about TOR, I agree they're going to choke the life out of it with that over-restricted F2P but sounds like they still haven't broken even or turned profit on their initial investment. I'm willing to bet STO is at least cash-flow positive but the initial investment (or lack thereof) really shows up in the finished products of both games.
In response, I've cut off all of Cryptic's funding. I will now live on the stipend and wait for sales on Z-Store items.
New players come here and go 'wow!' when they see the wealth of story missions, ground and space combat, a decent level of customization, Boffs, Doffs, the Foundry and all the other really, really neat things.
But that STO is dead - it died when the game went F2P - since then we've had Starbases, Defera, Nukara and now New Romulus and the Rep System. We've had some incredibly weak Fleet Actions and some poor STF-wannabes added and a whole lot of grind.
In the meantime, the Featured Episodes, PvP and the KDF have languished and will continue to do so whilst the primary money-maker is lockboxes, Zen sales and the C-Store.
I'm not opposed to Cryptic making money, and if they're doing OK out of STO then I'm genuinely happy for them and the players - but every time I see the latest hare-brained scheme they've cooked up for the latest Season I can't help anymore but roll my eyes and think 'Really? That's the best you can do? With this IP?'
"Yeah, cigarettes are bad for your health; however, using cocaine affects you a hundred times faster". Here is the irony... Both cigarettes and cocaine are horrible for your health, period.
You either do or do not like "Star Trek: Online".
I am indifferent. While I like certain aspects about "Star Trek: Online", I also see elements I completely and utterly despise. After Cryptic put the Season Six and Seven's changes into place, I found that my dislikes outnumber my likes. Instead of continuing to rant or leave feedback, I have decided to do the next best thing. I am taking a "Star Trek: Online" hiatus. Within four to five months from now, I will come back to see if Cryptic has learned any lessons.
My days of leaving any feedback are now over. Since I do not get paid for helping them to come up with ideas, I have decided to keep my thoughts private. Cryptic's success and failure are not on my shoulders, so I am removing myself from the equation. If Cryptic happens to add something I like, I will return in four to five months to have some fun. I will continue to monitor the forums and blogs, so I can determine when is a good time to return.
Regardless about how their services compare with the competition, the most important thing is if Cryptic's products appeal to me. Without an entertaining game attached to those services, the pricing and availability of products becomes meaningless. $60 can buy me an awesome piece of entertainment, and $100+ can buy me a horrible piece of garbage. Its all about what appeals to my personal tastes.
"Star Trek: Online's" latest changes do not excite my passions.
Live long and prosper!
- Judge Aaron Satie
Yeah, but if you really don't wanna spend any money in STO, you don't have to. You get a pretty good ship at T4, weapons and gear is earned in-game. So you can have a pretty decent setup for a casual player who logs in once in a while.
Only if you are vain enough to be seen in the latest lockbox ship, or wanna become james bond lookalike with the formal attire set, or you want to deck out your entire ship with all the available unique consoles out there, then you gotta pay. Makes perfect sense doesn't it? Want more? Pay up.
While I agree that zen store items are overly expensive, lockboxes are gambling, etc etc but they're not fundamentally important.
TOR's f2p, LOTRO's f2p all restricts you for content and access. Who is genius enough to limit XP gained as a f2p (TOR)? And restrict which dungeon you can play and which dungeon you can't play (LOTRO)?
STO is truly F2P, pay only for customizations and if you want more. There's no such thing as a free lunch anyway right?
Well, since you can have everything a vip have, while spending less than the LTS, it's a fair deal. Or simply skip the content you don't like, while buying the rest.
Dunno about LOTRO, but I know for sure that on DDO you were able to have the whole game like a vip, without spending any cash. For free. Forever. Ofc, it was a grind, but it's still the best deal I've seen so far.
Great article about Bioware and their multi-million dollar blunder.
"Volley'd and Thunder'd."
"...Boldly the rode and well."
"Into the mouth of Hell."
For its problems and failing's STO ticks my boxes. between it and TOR, STO is the only winner.
I take it back. Compare away.
"Star Trek: Online" is "Star Wars: The Old Republic II".
Let me guess....Star Wars fan???
STO is great for me , why?.. because of SPACE COMBAT(in swtor you fly like on old SW games XD ) that is great and i love it , lots of ships with no class restriction( you can fly whatever you want) while in swtor you are restricted on small ship per class.
STO is not forceing you to invest your money in it like swtor , if you want something unique you will buy it , if you dont then play as F2P and enjoy in all content that is in game.
I love SW and ST universe , but i cant play the game that is pure .... and greedy as .... .
So your comment "Star Trek: Online" is "Star Wars: The Old Republic II" is stupid and i feel sorry for you.
P.S Show me 1 game that doesnt have grind in end game content and i will record myself while running naked on streets of big city.
fully agree with everything said here..
would add:
SWTOR has also plenty of grind in the lvling process.. the lore quests are great, but the side missions...
i will not reach end lvl in that game. not worth the time..
As the poster above me noted, it's just not worth the time to level. Endgame is just standing around scratching. I made it about halfway up the leveling progression, but it gets redundant really fast.
Valid point.
Right. All the great, early, work done on this game was done by people that are only memories now. And for the quality of programming and developement talent in the game now, that stuff may as well be arcane, wizardry. Here's how a Cryptic interview probably goes now:
"Tell us about your previous experience"
"Well I worked for a data mining company that masqueraded as a game company for about 6 months."
"Can you texture map a 6 sided cube?"
"Ah... I think so, pretty sure."
"Good, cause we do ALOT of prizebox drops here." "Welcome aboard, then!"
Agreed. There is not an MMO in existence that has no grind. It just doesn't happen. It could happen, but for the 20 or so years the genera has been around there has been grind, even going back to the old MUDs.
Also, people tend to forget that the visual design looks rather faithful to the original game..... which came out Eleven years ago.
Lol! I don't think it's that bad.
However, I'm struggling to believe there's actually a development team working on the game - i.e. actually creating new systems and fixing bugs.
What I think we have are some very, very dedicated artists, designers and scripters that are using the tools created for them to make the best content they can within some very tight timeframes and with very limited resources. (professional modders if you will)
I'm sure programming support is there should they hit issues, but for the most part I figure they're tasked with creating content that doesn't need that support (since I suspect all Cryptic's coding talent is tied up with Neverwinter).
And that's really bad for STO because it's starting to stagnate - New Romulus is soon to be added to the long list of places I never want to visit again in STO and given how much time has been invested in creating some wonderful environments for this game, it's a dreadful waste for them not to be hooked into well thought out, compelling gameplay.
I just hope plans are in place to give STO an overhaul once NW is out the gate - it desperately needs (and deserves) it.
I actually disagree with this since I never saw SWG as a grind - sure, there were areas (and professions) where you could grind but it never felt mandatory (to me anyway) - I guess part of that is due to SWG's original sandbox nature - it was planned to be a galaxy (far, far away) where you could just live out the life of your character.
Even to this day, the scope of that game boggles my mind.
STO in my opinion beats TOR in the space department and that's about it, you complete the story and then choose which content you want to repeat over and over again or what you want to grind for..... basically the same as TOR only STO has a lot less things to do.
I do like STO so that's why I still play it, and I like TOR, that's why I still pay for it. But TOR has a lot more to do PvP wise and flashpoint wise (STF) but you do have to try and find groups.
Guilds in TOR are for help and social use, they also help with team building for flashpoints/operations... STO fleets/guilds are the same but they have the extra stuff like star bases but remember they are still a fairly new addition.
TOR is very restrictive with its F2P model, like I don't agree with only being able to do a small amount of flashpoints per week or the silly restrictions on the UI, the XP reduction is a little harsh too but I do agree with F2P players only getting sprint at 15, that's how it used to be for the paid subs and its not really that big of a deal anyway.
The problem is you have played STO F2P for a while and you have been spoiled by having little to no restrictions and TOR is a little too restrictive but in my personal opinion paying customers should get some sort of extra's over free players, if not then you should just scrap the ability to have a sub.
TOR also has 2 FULL factions to STO's 1 and a half.
To cut the mess above short,
STO = Good space combat, OK ground combat, Almost none restrictive F2P model, Not enough STF's, Not enough PvP, can be very repetitive, Its Star Trek which is my preferred franchise.
TOR = Good story missions/level progression, Good ground combat, Bad space combat, F2P model that is too restrictive, Harder to find groups, Tonnes of group content (Flashpoints/Operations/PvP/Group missions), 2 full factions.
I think if Cryptic made a Star Trek space game and Bioware made ground Star trek game with story and they stuck them together with a F2P system thats not as restrictive as TOR but not like STO's... it would be epic.
nobody here is going to play NW anyway
The games engine was outdated from the get go and is an enormously buggy resource hog that should have been abandoned long before the game was released. Graphics are in no way superior to other MMOs so the resource demands are unjustifiable.
And space combat limited to an arcade rail shooter puts the last nail in the coffin.
The F2P model they are using now is extremely limited, XP and access limitations, gear limitations and a single action bar, but I expect they might revise that as more subscribers drop off the radar.
Star Wars has it's die hard fans who will accept anything just as Star Trek does so I don't see the game failing completely, but I expect Lucas and company are regretting having Sony pull the plug on SWG, SWTOR will never be the cash cow they had hoped it would be.
And then Sony came along................. :rolleyes:
Well - yeah. :rolleyes:
SWG... MxO... SOE have a lot to answer for...
ONLY if the 'life' you had in mind for said character was resource farming and crafting.
SWG was bad from closed beta on; and the SOE Devs never listened to a word the closed beta testers said. Their usual response was "You just don't get it yet. Just play some more, and you'll see we made the right decision.." (I was a closed beta tester from phase 3 to launch.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I played SWG from almost the start and I never crafted for farmed resources, I did pretty much anything I wanted, and those that did want to just be moisture farmer... could be... it was all about choice... something they later removed.
I hope Season 8 returns to what Cryptic did best from seasons 1 - 6 and the ****ing grind takes a backseat. I do love my starships.
As for the actual subject of of this thread, I want to pipe in about the CStore/Lockboxes and the people who hate them. What makes this game great is that unlike most F2P MMOs, you can get almost everything in those lockboxes by grinding ECs and Dil, without paying a dime. Turbine's games have a similar system, but it isn't as generous or as directly related to effort. In STO if you want a Wells, you just have to play to get it. If you play a little bit, it will take a long time, and if you play a LOT it will happen fairly quickly (I can earn 200-300k on average in an hour doing repeated Tau Dewa missions and STFs, more if I get a lucky loot drop). Wells' are around 40M ECs last I checked, which means getting one is going to take around 120 hours of pure grinding, less whatever you can cash in from Dil conversion to ECs. Is it going to be exciting doing this? Probably not. It will get you there, though.