So the question really is, do you love the torkhat so much that you really MUST have that one ship and will continue to use it even as you unlock better tiers later? If yes, then it is worth it. If you're just looking for a ship upgrade from what you've got go for a ship that requires no modules. Save the modules for Tier5 later on.
In summary: No the module ships are NOT worth it unless you've only been looking forward to that one ship this entire time and MUST absolutely have it and you know this with all your heart. Otherwise don't spend them.
I think the Fleet Tor'kaht is well worth the modules and 20K FC. There's nothing in the higher shipyard tiers directly comparable to the Tor'kaht but 'better'. The higher tiers just unlock more variety, they are not intrinsically more powerful in all categories. The tiers aren't 'better' unless you're looking for a specific ship. Though, looking for a specific ship that you might want otherwise is something to keep in mind.
The question is more if those modules are worth $20 to you, as you can earn up the Zen via Dil trade-ins and you can buy the modules on the exchange with EC(usually around 5 Mil each). I paid around $10 each real money for the two fleet ships I have.
I have to point out that you're going to do a lot more damage if you switch to dual cannons or dual heavy cannons. I have done DBB builds and they can be fun, but you can't match the damage of DHCs on front of a battlecruiser.
True, if you have CRF3/CSV3. This ship has LTC as top tac spot so only CRF2/CSV2 can be used, but with beams, FaW3 or BO3 can be equipped.
Doing some math (all stats sourced from STO wiki):
MKXII Dual Cannon DPS = 256
MKXII DBB DPS = 229
MKXII turret DPS = 132
CSV2 = +20% DPS
FaW3 = +40% DPS
So:
4 Dual cannons + 2 turrets using CSV2 = 1545.6 dps
4 DBB using FaW3 + 2 turrets = 1546.4 dps
So when buffed they can easily match dual cannon DPS output. Sure unbuffed I loose out but range and firing arc isn't as much an issue with these.
Yes if you're running all turrets rear you'd be better off, but I'm using dual mines to go with my play style. So in my particular case, no I'm not loosing much dps.
In fact if turrets weren't in the equation at all 4xDBBs with FaW3 will out DPS DHCs with CSV3.
Further, by sticking to ONE type (either cannons OR beams) you ensure that your boff skills work on both at the same time. So CRF will also work on your forward firing turrets, as will CSV. If you insist upon DBBs up front (it's a loss in firepower) FAW will benefit from you having beam arrays in the aft. This lessens your alpha strike but increases overall firing capabilities. You can still give a good load of damage when not pointed at it (and with turrets you're not doing much damage firing at something behind you).
Yeah but with the vorchas manoeuvrability and DBBs getting my target in firing arc isn't much of an issue. Plus in PvE you can get enemies in fore firing arc easy, so wanted extra fore DPS which only turrets can provide.
I'm an engineer, I don't have pattern alpha.
I might give beams aft a go, will diminish forward facing DPS though. Although power draw from rear weapons will be 0 so that'll boost fore weapons a little bit more to compensate a tad I guess. Will try it.
FAW isn't the skill you want with DBBs. You want Beam Overload. Mount BO3 and demote FAW to FAW1. FAW is more limited in use, akin to scatter volley. When you're pounding just one target you want it to go down fast. Also if you mount ANY of the dispersal patterns you'll get more than 1 tricobalt mine per drop. First rank, 2 mines, second 3 mines, 3rd 4 mines. That way you can mount more energy weapons and still retain your mine output. This also can help because sometimes the first mine will catch a bit of shields and not do full damage, but the second mine following it will definitely hit hull!
As mentioned previously I only PvE. FaW3 is far more useful buffed than a one shot that drains weapons by 50 causing the next volley to be underpowered. Plus, vs a single target you still get a DPS buff. I'm an engy that can't alpha so burst damage isn't that important to me.
Plus being tanky I WANT to aggro the NPC masses, so yes I think FaW is the skill I want.
Totally agree with mines, I did mention I used DPB1....
2x tric mine launchers with DPB1 = 4 mines a minute. And the 1-2 combo as you say is great. Doing the same thing on my Vet ship but with DPB3 (8 mines per minute), 4 tric mines = insta pop on all but the biggest of NPC ships. (often multiple kills per buffed mine drop too)
I've done a lot of the math on my escort that I set up to run beams. To head off all the escort pilots that are shrieking right now, I KNOW it's not the most I can get out of it. I'm seeing what best I can get from beams. It's an experiment.
Running high power is the key. As you say BO drains power, but for me only seems to drain it 50% when I am running max power to weapons.
My phaser DBB XI [acc] [crth] [dmg] does 288 dps stock, at stock power. Put my power up to 106, and the same bank is doing 834 dps.
Run TacTeam1 and that goes up to 854 dps. That's not even counting BO3 yet!
The thing is that cannons will definitely out-DPS DBBs. I have a build with a DHC mk XII AP borg in it. It's XII but the "stock" dps is very similar to what you posted. Putting my power in weapons bank to 108 (as close as I could get to my 106 number above), it listed 985 dps. Running tac team1 made that 1008, and then triggering CRF1 (the lowest rank) boosted that to 1281 dps.
DHCs crit more, they hit harder, and they output more than DBBs. I do have fun with my DBBs, as I said, but the numbers don't add up to an equal parity with each other. DHCs and DCs are superior. By a long shot.
As for burst power -- it's still power. A good burst spike with BO3 gets me 30k crits many times. It's quite common, actually. That all adds up. You might take a small power dive after it, but within a second you're back to normal. That's worth it for such a massive spike.
That's like not loading torp spread because it's only for burst damge... Well, so? Burst damage is good! Then return to sustained damage!
I'm just wondering why they called it a vor'cha when it's not a vor'cha at all. The vor'cha shares the same fed cruiser setup of 1 CMDR eng, 1 LtCDR eng, for cross-eng tanking skills. This is also found on the k'tinga retro + fleet retro. As much as I love that K'tinga, sometimes I want those extra boff slots.
So why did they make such a drastic boff change on this fleet version? The Torkaht was a skin for the vor'cha, not a new ship.
I'd much rather the K'Tinga and the Tor'kaht share the SAME boff setup. What I'd do is make the LtCDR be universal so you can run it as eng or tac depending on if you want to be a tank or an attacker. Maybe the ENS and the LtCDR both be universal, as on some fleet ships on fed side.
I'm just wondering why they called it a vor'cha when it's not a vor'cha at all. The vor'cha shares the same fed cruiser setup of 1 CMDR eng, 1 LtCDR eng, for cross-eng tanking skills. This is also found on the k'tinga retro + fleet retro. As much as I love that K'tinga, sometimes I want those extra boff slots.
So why did they make such a drastic boff change on this fleet version? The Torkaht was a skin for the vor'cha, not a new ship.
I'd much rather the K'Tinga and the Tor'kaht share the SAME boff setup. What I'd do is make the LtCDR be universal so you can run it as eng or tac depending on if you want to be a tank or an attacker. Maybe the ENS and the LtCDR both be universal, as on some fleet ships on fed side.
Boff layout changes are relatively common in Fleet variants, the Tor'Kaht isn't unique in this respect. I don't see the point in giving two separate battlecruisers the same boff layout.
I'm just wondering why they called it a vor'cha when it's not a vor'cha at all. The vor'cha shares the same fed cruiser setup of 1 CMDR eng, 1 LtCDR eng, for cross-eng tanking skills. This is also found on the k'tinga retro + fleet retro. As much as I love that K'tinga, sometimes I want those extra boff slots.
So why did they make such a drastic boff change on this fleet version? The Torkaht was a skin for the vor'cha, not a new ship.
I'd much rather the K'Tinga and the Tor'kaht share the SAME boff setup. What I'd do is make the LtCDR be universal so you can run it as eng or tac depending on if you want to be a tank or an attacker. Maybe the ENS and the LtCDR both be universal, as on some fleet ships on fed side.
The Tor'kaht is just what the Vor'cha should have been from the start. A Klingon attack cruiser.
All I need now is a heavy beem array to put on it and it resembles Gowrons BortaS.
I'm just wondering why they called it a vor'cha when it's not a vor'cha at all. The vor'cha shares the same fed cruiser setup of 1 CMDR eng, 1 LtCDR eng, for cross-eng tanking skills. This is also found on the k'tinga retro + fleet retro. As much as I love that K'tinga, sometimes I want those extra boff slots.
So why did they make such a drastic boff change on this fleet version? The Torkaht was a skin for the vor'cha, not a new ship.
The Fleet Tor'kaht seems to have been intended to counter the Regent Assault Cruiser on Fed side, which has a similar re-mix BOff slots in trading Eng for Tac as well. There was a Fleet version of the Assualt Cruiser on Tribble prior to the Fleet Advancement System going live on Holodeck with the same BOff layout as the Fleet Tor'Kaht, but it hasn't been brought back yet.
Well to that end give us that LtCDR as universal then. On all the fleet battlecruisers. Let us tank or attack as we prefer.
Of course precedent is to make the ENS slot universal then, so you can move it elsewhere.
I like my K'Tinga retro, but I feel a little gypped on the boff setup when I see how much folks gush about the Tor'kaht. They are the same ship. The vor'cha retro IS the K'Tinga retro. The Fleet retro just adds a console. The Tor'kaht was superficial skin for the vor'cha retro. They really are the same ship with different skins.
I guess I'm just wishing after the fact. They're putting more and more universal slots on, too bad they didn't put them on my fav ship. It rightly deserves it! It's been around the longest! (K'Tinga, in case you didn't guess by now what my fav ship is!)
EDIT: P.S. The lockbox battlecruisers come standard with ltcdr as universal, also. They're battlecruiser/raptor hybrids, really. More salt in the wound!
Cant quote the post due to this stupid phone...but..
Wait...since when does the tor'kaht cost real world money!?
Just fleet credits and fleet ship mods which you can buy with energy creds... Or am i missing something here!?
Cant quote the post due to this stupid phone...but..
Wait...since when does the tor'kaht cost real world money!?
Just fleet credits and fleet ship mods which you can buy with energy creds... Or am i missing something here!?
I'm guessing the majority of people either buy all or part of their modules with cash-purchase. Saving up that much EC with all the needs for the reputation system and a decent nerf to getting salvage from STFs can be fairly hard depending on your playstyle.
Even buying with EC, all fleet modules can be traced back to cash in some way, though it may take a very indirect route to you. All the ones you see on the Exchange were bought with Zen, and that Zen was either bought directly (or indirectly via subscription stipend) with real world money, or was made via Dilithium Exchange which gets it's Zen from people that buy it in some way.
Im saving up for my 4th and last fleet ship mod, so was getting kinda worried that id wasted my time and they'd started charging actual zen for the sucker.
That. fleet .vorcha. is .just. plain. awesome.
Even on my Eng toon, I can make fed escorts wonder how I outdo their damage AND survive to tell about it
We might have got the short end of the stick on ships, but seriously speaking, I wouldnt get any other ship besides the fleet vorcha (unless of course a similar ship WITH BATTLE CLOAK is made available! ,)
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
Im saving up for my 4th and last fleet ship mod, so was getting kinda worried that id wasted my time and they'd started charging actual zen for the sucker.
Yeah, no direct Zen cost. I've bought Fleet ships using only modules from the exchange.
That. fleet .vorcha. is .just. plain. awesome.
Even on my Eng toon, I can make fed escorts wonder how I outdo their damage AND survive to tell about it
We might have got the short end of the stick on ships, but seriously speaking, I wouldnt get any other ship besides the fleet vorcha (unless of course a similar ship WITH BATTLE CLOAK is made available! ,)
Yeah, I think a ship like this is the best for my play style. The extra rear weapon slot helps make up the DPS lost from having lower ranked Tac BOff slots. Still want more ships, for my alt KDF side if nothing else, though.
do you guys fly Tor'Kaht with cannons? Is CRF I and II do some serious damage?
Because I fly Heghta with CRFII and CRFIII and I am quite satisfied with the performance...so far
i do and my dps static with fleet dual heavy's is 1365 and my quad is doing 1359 i love my Vor Khat the hull in system is 53xxx and the khg shields are 12900 turn rate is 20.7 with no rcs 37.x resist to everything with 2 neutronium i guess im quite happy with it
p.s.
anyone notice the hinges on the wings of the tor khat are they going to fix them or are they just going to leave them stationary? they need to be fixed! who agrees?
Well we talked a lot about the Fleet Tor'kaht, but what about the other ship in the title of this thread?
Yes, I am talking about the Fleet Hoh'sus.
Now don't get me wrong, the Hoh'sus is an ugly bird, the ugly duckling of the BOP tree. But it is like a pug (the dog, not Pick up Group) to some people: an ugly cute.
Looks aside, I will say this BOP is the next step up from the Hegh'ta: the Fleet Ning'tao is a great bird, but it is really fragile in the wrong hands. On the Hoh'sus, the extra Tac Console makes a lot of difference between a successful alpha strike and an enemy that is still alive and now aware of your presence.
So the question is: do you have one? If so, how much do you like it?
I like my Fleet Hoh'sus, it is called the I.K.S. Death Hawk for a reason.
I want a tor kat, but I just cant see it being relevent in kerrat or structured pvp,, especially with dhcs, scorts will laugh at you with 10 turn and dhcs. Also seeing as how beams are basicly irrelevent in pvp,, I dont see it workin in pvp. I dont do estfs anymore since I bought all fleet weapons and sheilds. How can I make this work in kerrat, or am I just gonna get a hosus?
Comments
I think the Fleet Tor'kaht is well worth the modules and 20K FC. There's nothing in the higher shipyard tiers directly comparable to the Tor'kaht but 'better'. The higher tiers just unlock more variety, they are not intrinsically more powerful in all categories. The tiers aren't 'better' unless you're looking for a specific ship. Though, looking for a specific ship that you might want otherwise is something to keep in mind.
The question is more if those modules are worth $20 to you, as you can earn up the Zen via Dil trade-ins and you can buy the modules on the exchange with EC(usually around 5 Mil each). I paid around $10 each real money for the two fleet ships I have.
Doing some math (all stats sourced from STO wiki):
MKXII Dual Cannon DPS = 256
MKXII DBB DPS = 229
MKXII turret DPS = 132
CSV2 = +20% DPS
FaW3 = +40% DPS
So:
4 Dual cannons + 2 turrets using CSV2 = 1545.6 dps
4 DBB using FaW3 + 2 turrets = 1546.4 dps
So when buffed they can easily match dual cannon DPS output. Sure unbuffed I loose out but range and firing arc isn't as much an issue with these.
Yes if you're running all turrets rear you'd be better off, but I'm using dual mines to go with my play style. So in my particular case, no I'm not loosing much dps.
In fact if turrets weren't in the equation at all 4xDBBs with FaW3 will out DPS DHCs with CSV3.
Yeah but with the vorchas manoeuvrability and DBBs getting my target in firing arc isn't much of an issue. Plus in PvE you can get enemies in fore firing arc easy, so wanted extra fore DPS which only turrets can provide.
I'm an engineer, I don't have pattern alpha.
I might give beams aft a go, will diminish forward facing DPS though. Although power draw from rear weapons will be 0 so that'll boost fore weapons a little bit more to compensate a tad I guess. Will try it.
As mentioned previously I only PvE. FaW3 is far more useful buffed than a one shot that drains weapons by 50 causing the next volley to be underpowered. Plus, vs a single target you still get a DPS buff. I'm an engy that can't alpha so burst damage isn't that important to me.
Plus being tanky I WANT to aggro the NPC masses, so yes I think FaW is the skill I want.
Totally agree with mines, I did mention I used DPB1....
2x tric mine launchers with DPB1 = 4 mines a minute. And the 1-2 combo as you say is great. Doing the same thing on my Vet ship but with DPB3 (8 mines per minute), 4 tric mines = insta pop on all but the biggest of NPC ships. (often multiple kills per buffed mine drop too)
Running high power is the key. As you say BO drains power, but for me only seems to drain it 50% when I am running max power to weapons.
My phaser DBB XI [acc] [crth] [dmg] does 288 dps stock, at stock power. Put my power up to 106, and the same bank is doing 834 dps.
Run TacTeam1 and that goes up to 854 dps. That's not even counting BO3 yet!
The thing is that cannons will definitely out-DPS DBBs. I have a build with a DHC mk XII AP borg in it. It's XII but the "stock" dps is very similar to what you posted. Putting my power in weapons bank to 108 (as close as I could get to my 106 number above), it listed 985 dps. Running tac team1 made that 1008, and then triggering CRF1 (the lowest rank) boosted that to 1281 dps.
DHCs crit more, they hit harder, and they output more than DBBs. I do have fun with my DBBs, as I said, but the numbers don't add up to an equal parity with each other. DHCs and DCs are superior. By a long shot.
As for burst power -- it's still power. A good burst spike with BO3 gets me 30k crits many times. It's quite common, actually. That all adds up. You might take a small power dive after it, but within a second you're back to normal. That's worth it for such a massive spike.
That's like not loading torp spread because it's only for burst damge... Well, so? Burst damage is good! Then return to sustained damage!
More than any other ship in the game.
Definitely. I fly one. I love it. It has NO weaknesses. It's freakin awesome.
So why did they make such a drastic boff change on this fleet version? The Torkaht was a skin for the vor'cha, not a new ship.
I'd much rather the K'Tinga and the Tor'kaht share the SAME boff setup. What I'd do is make the LtCDR be universal so you can run it as eng or tac depending on if you want to be a tank or an attacker. Maybe the ENS and the LtCDR both be universal, as on some fleet ships on fed side.
Boff layout changes are relatively common in Fleet variants, the Tor'Kaht isn't unique in this respect. I don't see the point in giving two separate battlecruisers the same boff layout.
The Tor'kaht is just what the Vor'cha should have been from the start. A Klingon attack cruiser.
All I need now is a heavy beem array to put on it and it resembles Gowrons BortaS.
The Fleet Tor'kaht seems to have been intended to counter the Regent Assault Cruiser on Fed side, which has a similar re-mix BOff slots in trading Eng for Tac as well. There was a Fleet version of the Assualt Cruiser on Tribble prior to the Fleet Advancement System going live on Holodeck with the same BOff layout as the Fleet Tor'Kaht, but it hasn't been brought back yet.
Of course precedent is to make the ENS slot universal then, so you can move it elsewhere.
I like my K'Tinga retro, but I feel a little gypped on the boff setup when I see how much folks gush about the Tor'kaht. They are the same ship. The vor'cha retro IS the K'Tinga retro. The Fleet retro just adds a console. The Tor'kaht was superficial skin for the vor'cha retro. They really are the same ship with different skins.
I guess I'm just wishing after the fact. They're putting more and more universal slots on, too bad they didn't put them on my fav ship. It rightly deserves it! It's been around the longest! (K'Tinga, in case you didn't guess by now what my fav ship is!)
EDIT: P.S. The lockbox battlecruisers come standard with ltcdr as universal, also. They're battlecruiser/raptor hybrids, really. More salt in the wound!
Wait...since when does the tor'kaht cost real world money!?
Just fleet credits and fleet ship mods which you can buy with energy creds... Or am i missing something here!?
I'm guessing the majority of people either buy all or part of their modules with cash-purchase. Saving up that much EC with all the needs for the reputation system and a decent nerf to getting salvage from STFs can be fairly hard depending on your playstyle.
Even buying with EC, all fleet modules can be traced back to cash in some way, though it may take a very indirect route to you. All the ones you see on the Exchange were bought with Zen, and that Zen was either bought directly (or indirectly via subscription stipend) with real world money, or was made via Dilithium Exchange which gets it's Zen from people that buy it in some way.
Im saving up for my 4th and last fleet ship mod, so was getting kinda worried that id wasted my time and they'd started charging actual zen for the sucker.
Even on my Eng toon, I can make fed escorts wonder how I outdo their damage AND survive to tell about it
We might have got the short end of the stick on ships, but seriously speaking, I wouldnt get any other ship besides the fleet vorcha (unless of course a similar ship WITH BATTLE CLOAK is made available!
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
Yeah, no direct Zen cost. I've bought Fleet ships using only modules from the exchange.
Yeah, I think a ship like this is the best for my play style. The extra rear weapon slot helps make up the DPS lost from having lower ranked Tac BOff slots. Still want more ships, for my alt KDF side if nothing else, though.
i do and my dps static with fleet dual heavy's is 1365 and my quad is doing 1359 i love my Vor Khat the hull in system is 53xxx and the khg shields are 12900 turn rate is 20.7 with no rcs 37.x resist to everything with 2 neutronium i guess im quite happy with it
p.s.
anyone notice the hinges on the wings of the tor khat are they going to fix them or are they just going to leave them stationary? they need to be fixed! who agrees?
Yes, I am talking about the Fleet Hoh'sus.
Now don't get me wrong, the Hoh'sus is an ugly bird, the ugly duckling of the BOP tree. But it is like a pug (the dog, not Pick up Group) to some people: an ugly cute.
Looks aside, I will say this BOP is the next step up from the Hegh'ta: the Fleet Ning'tao is a great bird, but it is really fragile in the wrong hands. On the Hoh'sus, the extra Tac Console makes a lot of difference between a successful alpha strike and an enemy that is still alive and now aware of your presence.
So the question is: do you have one? If so, how much do you like it?
I like my Fleet Hoh'sus, it is called the I.K.S. Death Hawk for a reason.