Support Role Build

vhex333 · November 2012

I have been a player for a long time but this is my first time posting on the forums. I am a sci captain and have been building my ship and her equipment for what seems like forever.

I am a PvE player and generally spend my time STF (Elite only) and the other group PvE queues to gain marks, etc.

I would like to know if there is anything I have missed with my build. As a science captain, I try to provide as much support as possible in group missions and have leant toward tactical to provide sensible DPS numbers (though I don't ever expect to be close to escorts).

I fly the Wells Temporal Science Vessel and I love it. Tractor Beams, Grav Well, Repulsors, Shield and Hull heals for support and nearly 65% damage addition to the base of Chroniton torps (Temp Warfare Set + Consoles) result in some pretty good damage numbers with torp spread lll over grav well clusters of enemies in addition to a sensor scan. Temp Inversion field and the Backstep are very useful and the Disruption Device does great damage and is really fire and forget in groups. It may miss the intended target but 9/10 swings around and hits another group.

I am presently on the road to upgrade all my Borg weapons to Fleet Ultra Rare - my fleet only allows fleet purchases after a certain rank and I am quite a new recruit.

Forward:

Dual Chroniton Beam Array
Chroniton Torpedo Launcher Xll [Borg]
Dual Antiproton Beam Bank Xll [Borg]

Full MACO Set Xll

Rear:

Dual Antiproton Beam Bank Xll [Borg]
Chroniton Torpedo Launcher Xll [Borg]
Temporal Disruption Device

Eng Consoles:
Tipler Cylinder
RCS Accelerator Xll
Assimilated Module

Sci Consoles:
Tachyokinetic Convertor - Completes Temporal Warfare Set
Graviton Generator Xll
Particle Generator Xll
Field Generator Xll

Tac Consoles:
Chroniton Flux Regulator Xll
Chroniton Flux Regulator Xll
Antiproton Mag Regulator Xl

BOFF Skills:

Tac Lt Cmdr Univ:
Tac Team/THY ll/TSlll

Sci Lt Univ:
Pol Hull l/Hzrd Emit ll

Eng Ensign Univ:
EPtS l

Cmdr Sci
Sci Team l/Trac Repuls l/Trac Beam lll/ GW lll

Lt Cmdr Sci:
TSS l/ Trac Beam ll

Boff

Projectile Weapons Officer x 3
Sensors Officer
Trac Beam Officer

Is there anything I should consider? Thanks in advance.

age03 · November 2012

It is best to go with phasers ans photons on sci ship as phasers can do sub system targeting.You don't need anything more than photons as they don't take to long to recharge.

vhex333 · November 2012

Thank you for your response.

If I went phasers, I would have to lose the temporal set as it is antiproton. Any beam weapon does sub-system targeting, it doesn't matter about the type of damage. The phasers do indeed increase the chance, but I really am not wanting to drop the Temporal Set as it A: Cost a fair bit to get and B: Has some great damage bonuses to Chronition and C: Has some really great ship bonuses (the recharge boost to Boff skills is fantastic). I would rather keep all those than increase the chances of knocking out a sub-system. They seem to go down regularly with any other beam fire, to be honest.

age03 · November 2012

There is no other beam weapon that does sub system trageting Polaron a little but that is energy not disable.This what a sci off is good at like disabling shields or weapons.

http://www.stowiki.org/Damage_type#Phaser

Phaser damage is displayed as orange in color, or sometimes pale yellow. It is a directed energy primarily used by the Cardassian Union, the True Way Alliance, the Terran Empire, and the Federation. Starfleet uses phasers for both ground and space weaponry, although in-game any race or faction can use Phaser energy weapons. The term "phaser" is an acronym for Phased Energy Rectification. Player-acquired starships for the Federation by default come with Phaser energy weapons. Shields and armor with the [Pha] suffix modifier take 20% less Phaser damage than usual.

Energy bonus: 2.5% Chance: Disable 1 Subsystem for 5 seconds (Space) / 5% Chance: +2 Hold

Photons are good becuase you don't need to put a lot of power to weapons.Look at the reload time

http://www.stowiki.org/Photon_Torpedo_Launcher

http://www.stowiki.org/Chroniton_Torpedo_Launcher

vhex333 · November 2012

Thanks.

Unless I am mistaken, phasers get a bonus to knock out a sub system:

Energy bonus: 2.5% Chance: Disable 1 Subsystem for 5 seconds (Space) / 5% Chance: +2 Hold

I can pretty happily say that I am able to knock out sub-systems and I don't have a single phaser weapon. My chances to disable are, I believe, 5% with any other beam type other than phaser. It will be 7.5% if I am using phaser (if my base of 5% is correct).

The more rapid reload of photons is great, but I still prefer the added 27.4% extra damage to chronitons and the + 7.6% crit severity and 0.76% crit chance AND 22.9% turn rate AND 17.2 Gravity generators and... you can see my point. For a chance of 2.5% subsystem bonus and photon reload I simply have to say goodbye to too many really excellent boosts. The Temporal Set is not something I really want to drop. That means I have to use antiproton and chroniton torps for the bonuses and to avoid skittle.

So, for me, I am happy to say no to phasers and photons. Nothing at all against them, just for the Temporal setup they break too much. Thank you, anyway.

age03 · November 2012

Wrong read the wiki as your build is flawed sorry to say.

Most never use chroniton as they are don't do much as most use photons,quantums,tansphasics.tricoblats and hargh'peng.

I ma not going to debate this any further as you won't take my adivce or others thinking you have an ubber ship which you don't.You asked for advice and won't take it instead you are defending your build which flawed for a Sci Of.

I do well in my little Intrepid using phasers and photons in any STF.

vhex333 · November 2012

As you asked me to, I certainly did go to the Wiki:

http://www.stowiki.org/Subsystem_Targeting

"After activating a subsystem targeting ability, the user will have 30 seconds to attack an enemy ship with any form of beam weapon, the attack will lower power to that system, and have a small chance of completely taking the system offline"

Quote - Any form of beam weapon.

So, there you go. I am not sure that my build is flawed - unless of course the WIKI is incorrect as well. That would tie in nicely back to me saying that phasers have a 2.5% bonus to knocking out a sub system on top of the base percentage of any beam weapon. That would definitely improve the chances but I am still happy with the Temp Set's other bonuses, that works best for me in a Wells.

I don't think my build is top of the line, that is why I am asking for improvements. That said, the one part of the setup I am happy with is the Temporal Warfare set. I really am interested in looking for replacements to the Borg weapons.

age03 · November 2012

It is mostly known that phasers do subsystem targeting not others look at the beam weapon chart.Read the rest of my post.

vhex333 · November 2012

Well, I am happy to use the wiki as the reference - since you pointed me to it. I am not sure about the 'mostly known' but will take your original suggestion and use the wiki's definition. Thank you anyway. I used to fly the Intrepid as well and she is a great ship, I had a lot of fun flying her.

Thanks for your suggestions.

baudl · November 2012

age03 wrote: »

It is mostly known that phasers do subsystem targeting not others look at the beam weapon chart.Read the rest of my post.

my friend you are mistaken here. any beam weapon can do the sci vessel ability target subsystem. Phasers have a proc to do a 5 sec offline debuff to any subsystem at a time.

the OP's AP build is solid, sure there are preferences...but a good build it is for sure.

only thing i would suggest is to remove THY and get an APbeta or delta. (beta may be better)
or to switch TS3 to TS2 and get omega 1

age03 · November 2012

I hope so because it doesn't do subsystem targeting nice weapon but not a great as antiprotons.

http://www.stowiki.org/Chroniton_Dual_Beam_Array

vhex333 · November 2012

Thanks for your reply, Baudl.

Trying to be polite as possible as I may not post here often, but I certainly know how it can spiral off into an insane word fight.

Thanks for the compliment. I still think I can improve and I suspect it is those less than great Borg weapons (with the busted damage) Fleet weapons will improve but not a great deal.

My crowd control with the setup is pretty solid (note the Tractor beam lll which I believe has been removed from the game - it still works if you kept it) and I use tractors to wipe out the shields so escorts can do their thing (with the added damage of the vessel being held). My Doff has added shield stripping.

I am at a loss where to aim next with weapons apart from fleet. Hearing mixed things about the Rep weapons (and to be honest, I am stuck with antiproton unless I want to mix it up - which I don't)

baudl · November 2012

age03 wrote: »

I hope so because it doesn't do subsystem targeting nice weapon but not a great as antiprotons.

http://www.stowiki.org/Chroniton_Dual_Beam_Array

that got nothing to do here...he is going for the set bonus. And of course it is not as potent as a MKXII very rare AP dual beam bank. It basically has the same proc as the chroniton torpedos (which is exactly what the OP wants) and 2x [critD]

vhex333 · November 2012

At least I did learn something new, I wasn't aware that the beam does not do the sub-system target. I can't see where it says that but still, will go with the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for the advice, I will check out the other BOFF options and see how they work out.

age03 · November 2012

baudl wrote: »

that got nothing to do here...he is going for the set bonus. And of course it is not as potent as a MKXII very rare AP dual beam bank. It basically has the same proc as the chroniton torpedos (which is exactly what the OP wants) and 2x [critD]

It is still not good for Sci build. Didn't you give up on your Sci Off or do play it much I don't think so to your first post.

vhex333 · November 2012

baudl gave some good suggestions re the Boff variations. I am going to give that a go and see if it works for me.

Cheers, baud.

twam · November 2012

vhex333 wrote: »

At least I did learn something new, I wasn't aware that the beam does not do the sub-system target. I can't see where it says that but still, will go with the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for the advice, I will check out the other BOFF options and see how they work out.

You're fine, in terms of subsystem targeting. Every beam and dual beam array works with that (except the cutting beam from the Omega Force reputation system).

I suspect there's some confusion here, with regards to the phaser subsystem proc, which is a different thing altogether.

Just like your torps are a better choice than photons, for a crowd control build, because of their secondary effects

No, you're running a pretty good build, and I'll only echo what Baudl said

AP:B stacks very nicely with sensor scan.

vhex333 · November 2012

Thanks, twam. Sensor scan plays heavily with my play style and a grav well group of ships with sensor scan + AP:B will give some great damage resist reductions to the enemies. That will allow the escorts/damage dealers to throw in a hefty cluster of torps for some serious damage.

I will put AP:B to the top of the list.

Cheers

adamkafei · November 2012

It looks fairly solid to me, the subsystem targeting is not exclusive to phasers, my sci uses polarons and does some nasty subsystem targets.

My only advice is to have a lt engineering officer, it's all well and good being able to mess with a ship and deal damage to it but that's wasted if you can't stay in a fight. I recommend taking Aux2SIF, also just for that extra personal kick you could use the 5 second damage boost from EPtW.

Other than that, what Baudl said

baudl · November 2012

age03 wrote: »

It is still not good for Sci build. Didn't you give up on your Sci Off or do play it much I don't think so to your first post.

i personaly play my sci only 2 hours a week or so. just some daily missions for the reputation. But i fly an escort, simply because it is the fastest way to do missions imho.

i do not really understand in what way it is not good for a sci? or in that case any ship captain combo.
The reasons you mentioned before ("can't be used for subsystem targeting") is not true. It is a weaker weapon, thats true, but what does that matter if he is not even using full weapon power? (i asume so)
I'm not sure where in the STOWIKI article you read that it is not working with subsystem targeting, or where it says that phasers work best for subsystem targeting. Phasers do have a proc that is similar to subsystem targeting, but that doesn't make them the better choice for the ability "subsystem targeting"

again, i can't find any convinceable reason why the chroniton beam is specialy bad for sci vessels.

on the photon torpedo matter: i love photons, imho they are best against borg since the fast reload + proc just make the DPS astronomical, but If you are looking for a weapon that snares your target, so it can't get out of your CC or get away, or even just to keep it still, so the defence is negative, then chronitons are your choice, no matter how much more dps the photons can do. Again, direct weapon DPS is not the goal of this build.

vhex333 · November 2012

Hi adamkafei.

Thank you for the response. Aux2Sif is a tempting ability, very tempting. Surviving damage in the Wells simply isn't an issue. Just about 16,000 on the shields and all those shield abilities (and the backstep) means blowing up is quite rare.

Really is that case of not enough Officer stations, as always - I want Aux2Sif and AP:B for sure. Shame Aux2Sif doesn't clear plamsa DoT (to my knowledge) or else I would be having that in an instant.

"The reasons you mentioned before ("can't be used for subsystem targeting") is not true. It is a weaker weapon, thats true, but what does that matter if he is not even using full weapon power? (i asume so)" - Yes, baudl, you assume correctly. My weapon power is dwarfed by Aux but still higher than engines and shields.

" If you are looking for a weapon that snares your target, so it can't get out of your CC or get away, or even just to keep it still, so the defence is negative, then chronitons are your choice, no matter how much more dps the photons can do. Again, direct weapon DPS is not the goal of this build." - Just to add here, baudl, is that yes, you are correct, I am not just looking for DPS. I am, however, happy to add 87% increased base damage to Chronition torps with the two 30% on my Chroniton Fluxes and an additional 27% from the Temporal Set 2 bonus. That does almost double the base damage on Chronitons taking them from weak damage to average/good. Stack that with the CC benefits as you noted and that is the part I am happy with: Temporal Warfare set + Chroniton torps. Happy to keep that as is.

Note: I need to get better Chroniton torps than the old Borg Xll though...

Thanks.

age03 · November 2012

baudl wrote: »

i personaly play my sci only 2 hours a week or so. just some daily missions for the reputation. But i fly an escort, simply because it is the fastest way to do missions imho.

i do not really understand in what way it is not good for a sci? or in that case any ship captain combo.
The reasons you mentioned before ("can't be used for subsystem targeting") is not true. It is a weaker weapon, thats true, but what does that matter if he is not even using full weapon power? (i asume so)
I'm not sure where in the STOWIKI article you read that it is not working with subsystem targeting, or where it says that phasers work best for subsystem targeting. Phasers do have a proc that is similar to subsystem targeting, but that doesn't make them the better choice for the ability "subsystem targeting"

again, i can't find any convinceable reason why the chroniton beam is specialy bad for sci vessels.

on the photon torpedo matter: i love photons, imho they are best against borg since the fast reload + proc just make the DPS astronomical, but If you are looking for a weapon that snares your target, so it can't get out of your CC or get away, or even just to keep it still, so the defence is negative, then chronitons are your choice, no matter how much more dps the photons can do. Again, direct weapon DPS is not the goal of this build.

I ma glad to hear that you still play it.I stand by what I said and that is phasersand photons are what makes a Sci ship work at its best.The key word here is DISABLE which is what they do no other beam weapon work.I know this becuase I tried itwith disruptors in my KDF sci. of ship with subsystem targeting and it doesn't work.

The best way to know this is to go out in a mission and try this not in an stf.The reason for photons is energy.I always use them on my AP escorts as phasers get quantums.I do use tetryon cannons a long with quantums.

I have tried every weapon in this game and chroniton is garbage does little to nothing.I learned the hard way through trial and error.I got no advice here when I asked except from a Mod who played engineer.

To OP your ship build is still flawed in terms of weapons.

btw I ma an official StarTrek Online beta tester.

baudl · November 2012

ok whatever, not worth a discussion anymore.

but just to be clear, are you confusing the proc from phasers with the science vessel ability "subsystem targeting"? If not, you are making an absurd statement here. Subsystem targeting works just fine with each and every energy weapon type in the game as long it is a beam weapon. Cannons do not work with this ability.

and as i stated above, photons are way more powerfull than chronitons...there is no doubt about that. But they snare the target, photons do not snare the target. And reducing the targets speed and turnrate is the goal in this specific build of vhex333. that is also the reason for the chroniton beam array, which has he same effect. It is not meant to deal dmg, it is meant to keep them locked in a grav well or something of that sort.

btw I ma an official StarTrek Online beta tester

that just made me giggle...especially the word "official"
and it doesn't make your statement about phasers and "target subsystems" anymore valid

vhex333 · November 2012

I agree, I'm totally over the phaser/photon debate. Glad you are a beta tester.I have worked as an art director in the games industry for nigh 20 years on some of the games you probably have played and enjoyed - neither make us the bible of beam types and their functions.

I am happy to take the good advice I have had so far. As for the photons and phasers... I hope they give you as much fun playing with them as I will do with my woefully flawed build.

You do seem quite opinionated as opposed to the other people who have been generous with their time and advice. You seem to be - "I am right, you are wrong". You urged me to go to wiki and after which I quoted it back to you which stated the opposite of your claims. Other players also said that you were mistaken - you retorted with a few snipes at them. As a beta tester, you would be aware that there are many combinations of game mechanics, all of which provide multiple possibilities. There simply isn't a 'this is the single perfect option' as this defies the entire reason to have equipment types and builds. A games company will give the players multiple choices, all with different pros and cons so that the player base has many choices to purchase, grind, craft and experiment with. Thus enabling a stable micro transaction economy.

I am delighted that there has been good advice (not yours) and will follow this advice. The photons and phasers will sadly not be my choice.

Thank you.

age03 · November 2012

Phasers are the only weapon that can do subsystem targeting as I said in my earlier post play my KDF with disruptors.I don't get that benefit from disruptor beams.

You might have worked in the game industry for x amount of years but didn't work on this one did you now.

I don't think either of you read the wiki well.It is Sci off jop to disable a subsystem.It sure makes it easier on escorts to thier jop.

Chroniton Dual Beam Array
Rare Ship Weapon

Values do not reflect skills or other modifiers

Chroniton Dual Beam Array

Energy Damage

90' targeting arc
to target: __ Antiproton Damage (__ DPS)
to self: -10 Weapon Power when firing other weapons
To target: 2.5% chance: Significantly reduces Flight Speed and Turn Rate
40% Critical Severity

It says nothing there about disabling.

It would sound to me that you would rather do damage if so role a Tac.I would bet on any KDF ship in pvp match would find it easy to take your ship out.

vhex333 · November 2012

You are right it doesn't say anything about sub system disabling. But nor does antiproton, plasma, tetrion, disruptor etc. it is an innate skill of the science captain (or leant boff skill) that is used in conjunction with the weapon type. Polaron and phaser have increased chances of this effect it isn't exclusively for them.

Yeah you probably would beat me in pvp as I do not play pvp.

Please, no more on the subject of beam types. This is not why I posted and if you really want to debate it, please open a new thread and sing it to your heart's content.

I have gained some insights from others here and have got the information I needed, I am sorry it wasn't yours that I chose.

age03 · November 2012

I didn't say antiproton,tetryon and disruptor if you read my post right.I doubt you worked in the gaming industry for 20 years.

ddesjardins · November 2012

Liked your build for STF's and now having read a variety of reply's, I have a few thoughts:

This is a PvE build - I have no advice for PvP with a wells.
Chroniton beams are actually anti-proton in nature, and get the same bonuses.
All beam arrays and dual banks can be used for the special subsystem attacks. Phaser have a small bonus which makes them the preferred choice - but the bonuses from the temporal set i believe make up for the difference.
Chroniton Torpedo's are not my personal favourites, but I am curious with the temporal set bonuses if they at least equal a good set of Quantum Torpedo's?
I would lean more heavily on the Anitproton Mag regulator - at least have x2. Your beams are your primary attack.
The RCS accelerator is a nice to have - but I would look at at least 1-2 Neutronium Alloy consoles. Each will effectively double your survivability.
The Particle generator is another nice to have, but the slot could be freed up for the assim module to make room for more kinetic consoles.
I added the Point Defence console on my wells - perfect for reducing Tholian web weavers - or as an insta kill on 4 probes in KASE Not a must, but a real nice to have.
Drop one of your torpedo Doffs for a subsystems attack cooldown bonus.
My only other thoughts are to drop the Trac Repulser for an energy syphon. The combo with your type, ship & skills make it quite deadly and a bonus when you're assaulting a cube.

Regardless, the wells is a nice little ship that's versatile and fun to play. My version has both consoles (Manheim, Tipler), but I chose phased tetryon weapons instead. Three dual beams up front, 2 turrets at the rear, with a rear-firing Temporal disruption Device. My attack strategies include a subsystem shield attack with a shield drain, followed by either a spread of TDD or one heavy TDD in a fly-by strafing run. She's no escort, but easily outdistanced my Atrox in damage. The added bonus of a ISO Kinetic charge bolstered by AUX and she can deliver over 200K at her peak pass. My ISO total attack (4 targets) topped out at 166K on one very memorable CSE.

Like I said - one fun little ship. Best bridge in the entire game

Admiral Thrax

vhex333 · November 2012

I merely stated that none of the beams mention state they do sub system either, so why should the Chroniton.

Oh I don't need to prove to you what, where or how I have worked, especially on a game forum.

Let me at least say why I want to keep Temp War Set:

Temporal Warfare set was designed for the Temporal Ships. It does antiproton on the beams, so you really have to use antiproton if you want additional beam weapons else you mix damage types (not my desired option). Temporal Warfare boosts Chroniton damage and much more and gives a heap of other fun, powerful boosts and toys. It is an absolute blast. It costs quite a bit to get the full set and something I wanted for my ship. I don't want to swap it out for phasers or photons.

I was really interested to hear from others about Boff variation and possible upgrades for consoles and what my next upgrades could be. I did state I do not want to lose the TW Set.

I can't say how much fun that set is. The speed boost alone with the recharge has the Wells shooting around popping out torps and abilities like they are going out of fashion as of the cool down reductions.

Thanks Cryptic for a brilliant ship and brilliant set.

vhex333 · November 2012

Hi ddesjardins.

Thanks for your input. Yeah it really is a fun vessel to fly. My attack style is close to yours. I have leant on tractors as my primary shield wipe as combined with Doff shield damage trac beams 2 and 3 are like shield vacuums in pve. Combining that with the two dual beams set to shield sub system drain and it works wonders. A quick turn and rear beam keeps shields off as torps go in. Add in gravity well and you got yourself a cluster of explosions. Survivability isn't a problem. As you know, that ship is built for shield defence (1.43 modifier) and it just rarely explodes. The rare times hull drops, I just switch on backstep and then heal. I agree the extra protection would be even better but RCS adds fun as well. I know it is minor when discussing builds, but the added manoeuvrability is simply fun, sweeping around the map with a turn getting close to an escort (almost - not quite) popping chronitons out like they were on sale is fun.

Have you tried tractor repulsors on the Tholian Web? Blasts it apart in a few pulses, works every time and it frees up the PDS console space (if you have it just for that).

Energy Syphon. Yes I did have that once and the bonuses from it were great. I might go back to it and try. Thanks.

Chroniton torp damage with the tac consoles and set bonuses aren't too bad. Never will be Quantum damage but the bonus of reduced speed and turn rate means other players hit harder as of the defence reduction on close to static vessels. My tractors make sure the vessel stays static and shields falling off. Chronitons help new to support the team.

baudl · November 2012

age03 wrote: »

1) Phasers are the only weapon that can do subsystem targeting as I said in my earlier post play my KDF with disruptors.I don't get that benefit from disruptor beams.

2) It is Sci off jop to disable a subsystem. It sure makes it easier on escorts to thier jop.

3)It would sound to me that you would rather do damage if so role a Tac.

4) I would bet on any KDF ship in pvp match would find it easy to take your ship out.

1) that is simply wrong...again you are mistaking subsystem targeting (sci vessel ability) for disable subsystem (the phaser proc)
there is a huge difference between the 2.
subsystem targeting only works with beams (all beams) and is an ability similar to FAW and BO (even share CD)
disable subsystems works only on phasers...but all phasers including cannons
whatever you tested on your klingon is of no real interest here...i even think you were using cannons when testing it.

2) sci off is not limited to that tactic or build. actually the sci can be the most versatile in his role. spanning from supporter to tank to DD. also the class is in no way limited to phasers or sci vessels to be of use, thats just absurd.

3) in no post he suggested he would rather do a dmg build, actually the only person who suggested a more dmg oriented dmg build was you.

4) that may be true, since i have no idea on what level of skill you 2 play. anyway it is a bold statement, that tells me quite a lot about you and that fits your previous statements.

sry, but to me it seems this discussion is way over your head already and you seriously lack understanding of core functions in this game. I mean you quote the description of the chroniton beam and write under it that it doesn't disable anything. Whats next, posting a disruptor and calling it inferior because it does not drain shields aswell as tetryons?
the chroniton however has a 2.5% chance to diminish turnrate and movement speed severely, do you understand that?

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