running around in circles pressing F all the time is Star Trek for you?
hmm.. *shrug* ok, good for you.
i'm not that impressed, i would like some actual gameplay, too bad STO's only gameplay mechanics are pew pew + hotkeys, + the universal F does everything button.
That does not leave much room for different experiences.
I'm kind of in the same boat as the above quote.
With that being said, I do like New Romulus for what it tries to do. I just think that the missions will get boring for me really quickly. I'm not even done the first round of them (almost am) but I pretty much know what to expect at this point. For myself I think I'd like a little bit more story woven into the missions. There is a little bit but I don't really feel that it's enough.
I do agree that this is a step in the right direction though. People have wanted this for a long time and I think when the game first launched this is the kind of stuff people were kind of expecting. Fast forward a few years later and we're finally getting to go on strange new worlds. Hopefully they continue adding this kind of stuff but with better quests / missions.
On a side note... wouldn't the Federation's involvement in this be a breach of the Prime Directive? They're putting their nose into another culture's internal affairs. Now, I can understand them probably saying.. well the good of us doing this outweighs the bad if we don't get involved. It was just a thought I had. Mind you game-wise I think all of us have broken the Prime Directive on more than one occasion.
And lastly, I still don't really agree with the fact that they've just abandoned Rator III because of the internal strife. For that reason alone I don't think that New Romulus can ever be considered part of the true Romulan Star Empire.. it would be akin to some rogue Admirals in Starfleet going off to another planet and calling it New Earth and claiming that they're the Federation. The Empire is pretty much really screwed right now because of Hobus. It's too bad that we can't just try to mend it all instead of just focusing on the lone planet which may or may not make a difference to anything in the end.
I also don't agree with the Remans going off with the Romulans again on New Romulus. That to me makes no sense at all. They were slaves and cannon fodder when Romulus and Remus existed. While I'm sure the relationship between the Romulans and the Remans have improved in recent years... I really don't think the Remans would put themselves in a situation where there was a chance that the old ways would return. And there's nothing saying that this wouldn't happen. Not everyone is willing to change overnight. Plus, what ever happened to Crateris that made them want to ditch that too?
Sure the mechanics of New Romulus are pretty standard MMO fare. No one with a functioning brain and past MMO experience would argue otherwise. It's stock "go here collect rocks" fare.
But you're missing the point. This is a strange new world, that we have never had access to before now. And, lo and behold, it is your task to explore it. Seeking out new life to help an old civilization adapt. And incidentally uncovering mysteries about a new civilization on the planet, too, if the ruins mean anything.
Then there's the themes of helping others in need, as I mentioned. Which someone pointed out was a Federation theme, but then again, Star Trek was largely about the Federation doing, well by golly, very much the same sorts of things we're seeing on New Romulus!
And yes, by this standard, any new content in, say, WoW, that has you exploring new places and helping new people is Trek-like content. Well that's because it's true. Just because you're an elf or troll doesn't mean exploring new places is any less in the spirit of Trek.
In closing, congratulation to most of you for missing the point of what Trek-like content is and having to have it explained to you.
WoW even makes allusions to Trek when it gets particularly Trek-like.
My favorite Trek-ism not yet in STO (but which I'd like to see) are transporter accidents.
WoW Transporters sometimes beam you to the wrong place, scramble your race for an hour, or turn you shadow-y and give you a debuff called "Evil Twin."
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Imagine if every time you used the Transporter on New Romulus, there was a chance to:
Beam you to Mirror New Romulus. Which you could leave by using the transporter pads but which might be swarming with Terran Empire and Klingon Cardassian Alliance enemy groups and offer up some clues on the ruins.
But you're missing the point. This is a strange new world, that we have never had access to before now. And, lo and behold, it is your task to explore it.
And I want to ... I really do ! In fact I can't wait to , but ...
help an old civilization adapt.
Yeeeaaahhh ... .
It just HAD to be Romulans .
I ... uh ... no .
Not feeling it .
Too much bad blood ... even as a Fed , and it makes NO SENSE if you are a Klingon (unless you r a Duras ... -- but not even then) .
I never trusted Romulans ... and ... I never will . I have never been able to forgive them for ... well the list is just too long ... .
(but it starts with : our entire civilization may be at an end , so "we even thought about opening communication with the Romulans ... ." /BoBW Prt.1/ . Yes and this is the "enlightened" Picard era .)
And don't give me the "Jim , they are dying ." -- retro-novo puppy eyes/Vulcan ears death combo (!) because I'm apparently racist against Romulans .
But hey , at least I thought it was funny for a time .
Now .. , not even that .
So yeah , as you said jaded . Not from Trek , but more like two seasons of grind back to back ... , and from something masquerading as Trek .
Imagine if every time you used the Transporter on New Romulus, there was a chance to:
Beam you to Mirror New Romulus. Which you could leave by using the transporter pads but which might be swarming with Terran Empire and Klingon Cardassian Alliance enemy groups and offer up some clues on the ruins.
Have an evil twin beam in.
Get your appearance scrambled.
I actually think that kind of stuff should take place during Exploration missions. Imagine trying to defeat your evil twin as your ship slowly spirals toward the sun! :eek:
On a side note... wouldn't the Federation's involvement in this be a breach of the Prime Directive? They're putting their nose into another culture's internal affairs. Now, I can understand them probably saying.. well the good of us doing this outweighs the bad if we don't get involved. It was just a thought I had. Mind you game-wise I think all of us have broken the Prime Directive on more than one occasion.
The original, classic PD applied only to pre-warp cultures. TNG expanded it (ill-advisedly, IMO) to try to beg off from interfering with any culture, even other major powers, mostly (again IMO) as a rather transparent excuse to try to avoid getting involved/dragged into someone else's civil war. An example of a narrow rule being expanded beyond recognition to justify isolationist policies at the galactic level. Like most such ***-covering excuses, it's promptly ditched (in favor of a whole different set of justifications for getting involved) during expansionist / interventionist phases - the PD clearly applied to the Ba'ku (ST Insurrection), but the Federation muckity-mucks, manipulated by the Son'a and dazzled by the prospect of eternal youth, ooooooh, ignored both the letter and the principle.
EDIT to add some further thoughts:
Yeah, my Feddies will be extending an open hand to the Romulans, but the Klingon? Ha ha, no.
It's not Real Trek unless someone comes on in the final act to club the audience over the head with the Moral. (e.g., "War is Bad", "Slavery is Bad", "Discrimination is Bad", "Computers Running Everything is Bad", "Pollution is Bad", "Sexism is Woo Check Out the Headlights on That One"...)
I actually think that kind of stuff should take place during Exploration missions. Imagine trying to defeat your evil twin as your ship slowly spirals toward the sun! :eek:
I would be all for an exploration system modeled on the new sector patrol, with more Trek themed random events besides just Iconians and Enterprise laced in.
Basically, design a lot of event triggers based on common Trek plots.
Then have a very basic random mission with hand crafted dialogue where the Trek event triggers are the random part of it.
I can actually cook up how you do this.
You know the cycling dialogue button from Mine Enemy?
Cycle a bunch of identical dialogue buttons that trigger different events. All stock Trek plot twists.
The original, classic PD applied only to pre-warp cultures. TNG expanded it (ill-advisedly, IMO) to try to beg off from interfering with any culture, even other major powers, mostly (again IMO) as a rather transparent excuse to try to avoid getting involved/dragged into someone else's civil war. An example of a narrow rule being expanded beyond recognition to justify isolationist policies at the galactic level. Like most such ***-covering excuses, it's promptly ditched (in favor of a whole different set of justifications for getting involved) during expansionist / interventionist phases - the PD clearly applied to the Ba'ku (ST Insurrection), but the Federation muckity-mucks, manipulated by the Son'a and dazzled by the prospect of eternal youth, ooooooh, ignored both the letter and the principle.
EDIT to add some further thoughts:
Yeah, my Feddies will be extending an open hand to the Romulans, but the Klingon? Ha ha, no.
It's not Real Trek unless someone comes on in the final act to club the audience over the head with the Moral. (e.g., "War is Bad", "Slavery is Bad", "Discrimination is Bad", "Computers Running Everything is Bad", "Pollution is Bad", "Sexism is Woo Check Out the Headlights on That One"...)
The TNG Prime Directive never made a lot of sense to me because nobody ever had trouble asking OTHER cultures to interfere in Federation affairs or seeking the aid of higher powers or meddling in the affairs of species like the Q.
I think the idea was that TNG was supposed to have more progressive values but the problem is that they never really reconciled the progressive values of charity and equity with the progressive values of cultural relativism and anti-imperialism.
I get avoiding cultural contamination but if any warp power engages a pre-warp society, I figure the seal should be broken.
So the Feds might avoid contaminating a pre-warp society but if the Ferengi show up peddling Warp drives, the Feds send a team to make first contact.
No, I'm not being sarcastic. All the hubbub about dilithium aside, exploring the "strange new world" that is New Romulus is the first truly "Trek" experience I have had in this game. I wish it had come sooner, but all I can say is "job well done" and please add more of this type of content!
I absolutely agree with this. I think it's great doing different things on new romulus, plus i actually enjoyed talking to some of the npc's and getting the info on the different new species.
You guys do know that, as you level through the Romulan Reputation system, more story missions are meant to unlock that tie in with helping them on there new planet?
I am purposefully no going there every day and taking my time with the new zone. I only plan to play one toon anyways, but that is the bigger problem Cryptic has created.....
The TNG Prime Directive never made a lot of sense to me because nobody ever had trouble asking OTHER cultures to interfere in Federation affairs or seeking the aid of higher powers or meddling in the affairs of species like the Q.
I think the idea was that TNG was supposed to have more progressive values but the problem is that they never really reconciled the progressive values of charity and equity with the progressive values of cultural relativism and anti-imperialism.
I get avoiding cultural contamination but if any warp power engages a pre-warp society, I figure the seal should be broken.
So the Feds might avoid contaminating a pre-warp society but if the Ferengi show up peddling Warp drives, the Feds send a team to make first contact.
My own take on it was that the PD operated on a sliding scale based on relative tech advancement.
So civilizations significantly less advanced would be "take only pictures, leave only footprints". Some degree of limited contact would occasionally be justifiable, so long as the social and/or technological effects could be expected to be minimal or isolated.
Civilizations only a bit less advanced would be "contact openly, but don't share tech or info". The warp/pre warp distinction seems to fall somewhere within this category, as we've seen the Enterprise (original a Next Gen) make open contact with what appeared to be advanced but still pre-warp civilizations numerous times, as well as open contact but with limited assistance with early post warp civilizations.
Technological equals are "PD just means sovereignty: tech and info are free trade, and assistance is limited only by what the recipient asks or permits". Romulans/Remans fall into this category, so assisting them when they're down-and-out is not a violation so long as they either welcome or solicit it.
I think StarFleet probably emphasizes the PD as an absolute in it's training and doctrine even though it technically isn't as a away of forcing captains to think very very very hard before deciding to "break" it. And whether or not a breach is legally justified is probably decided case-by-case by an after-the-fact review board rather than a precedent based perimeter system to avoid giving captains a way to legalistically self-justify a breach before deciding to do it. This would explain the terms in which things tend to get debated whenever a PD breach is being discussed/considered in the shows.
I totally agree with the "broken seal" concept you described, BTW.
Comments
I'm kind of in the same boat as the above quote.
With that being said, I do like New Romulus for what it tries to do. I just think that the missions will get boring for me really quickly. I'm not even done the first round of them (almost am) but I pretty much know what to expect at this point. For myself I think I'd like a little bit more story woven into the missions. There is a little bit but I don't really feel that it's enough.
I do agree that this is a step in the right direction though. People have wanted this for a long time and I think when the game first launched this is the kind of stuff people were kind of expecting. Fast forward a few years later and we're finally getting to go on strange new worlds. Hopefully they continue adding this kind of stuff but with better quests / missions.
On a side note... wouldn't the Federation's involvement in this be a breach of the Prime Directive? They're putting their nose into another culture's internal affairs. Now, I can understand them probably saying.. well the good of us doing this outweighs the bad if we don't get involved. It was just a thought I had. Mind you game-wise I think all of us have broken the Prime Directive on more than one occasion.
And lastly, I still don't really agree with the fact that they've just abandoned Rator III because of the internal strife. For that reason alone I don't think that New Romulus can ever be considered part of the true Romulan Star Empire.. it would be akin to some rogue Admirals in Starfleet going off to another planet and calling it New Earth and claiming that they're the Federation. The Empire is pretty much really screwed right now because of Hobus. It's too bad that we can't just try to mend it all instead of just focusing on the lone planet which may or may not make a difference to anything in the end.
I also don't agree with the Remans going off with the Romulans again on New Romulus. That to me makes no sense at all. They were slaves and cannon fodder when Romulus and Remus existed. While I'm sure the relationship between the Romulans and the Remans have improved in recent years... I really don't think the Remans would put themselves in a situation where there was a chance that the old ways would return. And there's nothing saying that this wouldn't happen. Not everyone is willing to change overnight. Plus, what ever happened to Crateris that made them want to ditch that too?
WoW even makes allusions to Trek when it gets particularly Trek-like.
My favorite Trek-ism not yet in STO (but which I'd like to see) are transporter accidents.
WoW Transporters sometimes beam you to the wrong place, scramble your race for an hour, or turn you shadow-y and give you a debuff called "Evil Twin."
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Beam you to Mirror New Romulus. Which you could leave by using the transporter pads but which might be swarming with Terran Empire and Klingon Cardassian Alliance enemy groups and offer up some clues on the ruins.
Have an evil twin beam in.
Get your appearance scrambled.
Guilty as charged !
And I want to ... I really do ! In fact I can't wait to , but ...
Yeeeaaahhh ... .
It just HAD to be Romulans .
I ... uh ... no .
Not feeling it .
Too much bad blood ... even as a Fed , and it makes NO SENSE if you are a Klingon (unless you r a Duras ... -- but not even then) .
I never trusted Romulans ... and ... I never will . I have never been able to forgive them for ... well the list is just too long ... .
(but it starts with : our entire civilization may be at an end , so "we even thought about opening communication with the Romulans ... ." /BoBW Prt.1/ . Yes and this is the "enlightened" Picard era .)
And don't give me the "Jim , they are dying ." -- retro-novo puppy eyes/Vulcan ears death combo (!) because I'm apparently racist against Romulans .
But hey , at least I thought it was funny for a time .
Now .. , not even that .
So yeah , as you said jaded . Not from Trek , but more like two seasons of grind back to back ... , and from something masquerading as Trek .
I actually think that kind of stuff should take place during Exploration missions. Imagine trying to defeat your evil twin as your ship slowly spirals toward the sun! :eek:
The original, classic PD applied only to pre-warp cultures. TNG expanded it (ill-advisedly, IMO) to try to beg off from interfering with any culture, even other major powers, mostly (again IMO) as a rather transparent excuse to try to avoid getting involved/dragged into someone else's civil war. An example of a narrow rule being expanded beyond recognition to justify isolationist policies at the galactic level. Like most such ***-covering excuses, it's promptly ditched (in favor of a whole different set of justifications for getting involved) during expansionist / interventionist phases - the PD clearly applied to the Ba'ku (ST Insurrection), but the Federation muckity-mucks, manipulated by the Son'a and dazzled by the prospect of eternal youth, ooooooh, ignored both the letter and the principle.
EDIT to add some further thoughts:
Yeah, my Feddies will be extending an open hand to the Romulans, but the Klingon? Ha ha, no.
It's not Real Trek unless someone comes on in the final act to club the audience over the head with the Moral. (e.g., "War is Bad", "Slavery is Bad", "Discrimination is Bad", "Computers Running Everything is Bad", "Pollution is Bad", "Sexism is Woo Check Out the Headlights on That One"...)
I would be all for an exploration system modeled on the new sector patrol, with more Trek themed random events besides just Iconians and Enterprise laced in.
Basically, design a lot of event triggers based on common Trek plots.
Then have a very basic random mission with hand crafted dialogue where the Trek event triggers are the random part of it.
I can actually cook up how you do this.
You know the cycling dialogue button from Mine Enemy?
Cycle a bunch of identical dialogue buttons that trigger different events. All stock Trek plot twists.
The TNG Prime Directive never made a lot of sense to me because nobody ever had trouble asking OTHER cultures to interfere in Federation affairs or seeking the aid of higher powers or meddling in the affairs of species like the Q.
I think the idea was that TNG was supposed to have more progressive values but the problem is that they never really reconciled the progressive values of charity and equity with the progressive values of cultural relativism and anti-imperialism.
I get avoiding cultural contamination but if any warp power engages a pre-warp society, I figure the seal should be broken.
So the Feds might avoid contaminating a pre-warp society but if the Ferengi show up peddling Warp drives, the Feds send a team to make first contact.
I absolutely agree with this. I think it's great doing different things on new romulus, plus i actually enjoyed talking to some of the npc's and getting the info on the different new species.
I am purposefully no going there every day and taking my time with the new zone. I only plan to play one toon anyways, but that is the bigger problem Cryptic has created.....
My own take on it was that the PD operated on a sliding scale based on relative tech advancement.
So civilizations significantly less advanced would be "take only pictures, leave only footprints". Some degree of limited contact would occasionally be justifiable, so long as the social and/or technological effects could be expected to be minimal or isolated.
Civilizations only a bit less advanced would be "contact openly, but don't share tech or info". The warp/pre warp distinction seems to fall somewhere within this category, as we've seen the Enterprise (original a Next Gen) make open contact with what appeared to be advanced but still pre-warp civilizations numerous times, as well as open contact but with limited assistance with early post warp civilizations.
Technological equals are "PD just means sovereignty: tech and info are free trade, and assistance is limited only by what the recipient asks or permits". Romulans/Remans fall into this category, so assisting them when they're down-and-out is not a violation so long as they either welcome or solicit it.
I think StarFleet probably emphasizes the PD as an absolute in it's training and doctrine even though it technically isn't as a away of forcing captains to think very very very hard before deciding to "break" it. And whether or not a breach is legally justified is probably decided case-by-case by an after-the-fact review board rather than a precedent based perimeter system to avoid giving captains a way to legalistically self-justify a breach before deciding to do it. This would explain the terms in which things tend to get debated whenever a PD breach is being discussed/considered in the shows.
I totally agree with the "broken seal" concept you described, BTW.