First all. These changes deserved a rage post from me, because rage was the first feeling that come after reading this Dev Blog. But I will contain myself and try to give constructive feedback.
I believe you say that the average player plays 3.5 hours/day. But I don't think most of them spend all this time running only dilithium missions. Therefore the logic "let's make them to barely hit dilithium cap in this time" is flawed. Unless you start to attach dilithium rewards on EVERY single mission (what is not a bad idea by the way). This is supported by your own data showing players were refining approximatelly half than you expected.
STF Dilithium. Adding dilithium to the other fleet actions was a good move, indeed. Now Dilithium is in fact more accessible and not on an exploitative way to players not playing elite missions. But removing it from STF you make it MUCH less accesible to players playing elite missions. This goes against what you want: To make Dilithium more accessible to everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if you observe on the next few months the amount of people playing STF's dropping drastically. I speak for myself here. With the addition of New Romulus I won't be playing STF's for awhile.
Yet about STF Dilithium. The excuse about given indirectly does not convince. You will have to grind the rep system all the way to T5 to unlock the indirect Dilithium reward. And even then, you will receive a much less dilithium than previously. And much less then playing another part of the game. Not worth it.
Duty Officers Reasignment: They were NOT undervaluated. Think that for getting a purple DOFF you need 125 common DOFFS plus 5*10+50*5+250 = 550 Dil. Collecting all these DOFFS is a lot. Specially if you consider they are input at the fleet projects as well, so they are very valuable (just look at the prices at exchange to see this). Now, to get a purple you will need the 125 common Doffs plus 500*5+2500*5+3000 = 18000 Dilithium. Just in comparison, the Very Rare DOff bought from Lt. Ferra costs 12500 Dil. And you don't need to give anything more as input rather than dilithium.
Other changes. Nothing to comment. Most of them were really balance issue that I understand they needed to be adressed (like B'Tran and foundry missions). I perhaps would just try to evaluate better the change on general recruitment. I always saw it as the most basic way to replenish lost common doff. Putting 1000 dilithium as requirement for this seens a bit harsh. But it is not a problem as big as the others.
Just to conclude: I really appreciate the effort you guys are doing. Just, please. Find a better solution for these problems. Once these things are solved, balance will be restored (and deferans will be happy )
Pre-forum change name: Captain Wilhelm Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
That you don't play for the DIl, but for the thrill? Hell, if that's different for you, I have a job for you. At pre-season-7 STF pay rate, I am sure I will find a way to get rich from your work.
And why would that be bad, then?
It's bad because then not nearly enough people do it, this affects those few who DO play that grind content just for fun because they will find less people, and thus less opportunity to enjoy said content.
As for the weird job offer, I'm afraid I'm unsure what you're getting at. Either way I already have a job that pays AND manages to be enjoyable so thanks, but no thanks.
[*]STF Dilithium. Adding dilithium to the other fleet actions was a good move, indeed. Now Dilithium is in fact more accessible and not on an exploitative way to players not playing elite missions. But removing it from STF you make it MUCH less accesible to players playing elite missions. This goes against what you want: To make Dilithium more accessible to everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if you observe on the next few months the amount of people playing STF's dropping drastically. I speak for myself here. With the addition of New Romulus I won't be playing STF's for awhile.
Next few month? I did 3 stf today, and gonna do less just to get marks. Just need me one day to know STF are waste of time
Just been doing the maths and it looks like it's just a little over 53 hours of non-stop STF grinding to get a MK XII space set, that's assuming you have huge amounts of luck and doesn't take into account all the grinding and time wasted sitting around getting up to Tier 5.
One MK XII space item will set you back 1000 OM, 10 BNP & 34,000 Dilithium
One Elite STF with optional will get you 75 OM & 1 BNP.
So 14 STF's will get you all the OM's you need, with 50 OM and 4 BNP to spare.
That, using Dsthal's figures, is worth 900 dil, so only another 33100 to go, which you need another 39 runs converting everything into dil.
That's 53 runs per piece or 159 runs per set.
Assume an Elite STF is around 20 mins, that comes out at 53 hours of grinding STF's hitting every optional along the way. Yeah that sure does sounds like a great way to improve the entertainment value of STO.
As has been stated before, the low average of refining Dilithium is due to 2 factors
1. New players levelling up, there isn't too much oppertunity to get huge amounts of Dilithium on your way to level 50 if you spend your time playing the missions.
2. Alt toons on account.
The first point is fair enough, give dilithium for fleet events so that low level players have a chance to get more dilithium to refine, this makes sense, 15 mins out of playing missions or between missions when you need to increase in rank slightly and it makes the time worth it.
As to the 2nd point, I will say I have only two alts atm, and neither of them have refined any dilithium in the past 6 months so surely this proves that it is bringing the averages down.
STFs were meant to be end game content, something for the player base to do when reaching VA.
These missions require tactics and teamwork, they are fun and the rewards at the end made them worth the time, unlike Fleet events you could get MK XII weapons or other drops that were worth someting for your time along with Dilithium.
Now all we get is Omega marks and that useless item (forget the name) that'll require 5 runs to get any dilithium out of it, there is no incentive to play these STFs anymore, and what the hell is the use of the Optional anymore either? Oh look we got the optional on elite... 15 extra omega marks... that was worth it...
Bring back the Dilithium and Drops for STFs!!!
Fleet events on the other hand do not require any skill, tactics or team play whatsoever, they are boring as hell as you don't need to think at all.
Anyone know if you get anything extra from rescuing the runabouts in the Klingon one? I haven't noticed anything.
Fleet events are biased towards Tactical captains/ships, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd placements are determined by DPS, this makes it nearly impossible for any science or engineering ships to rank 1st to get the Purple drops, at least int Stfs you had a chance.
If Cryptic really think they can change the game so that you will need to grind for upto 4 hours a day to get the 8K dilithium to increase refining they are sorely mistaken.
I can see the following things happen now
1. Less players play STFs
2. More players will play fleet events or other content alone to get the dilithium needed, thus detracting from being a MMO
3. There will be more people camping in fleet events to get the diltihium without doing anything.... while this can be seen good and bad by other players its annoying as hell still
4. Alts will not be played as often if at all as people will not have time to grind 2 or more toons to get dilithium/fleet marks/romulan marks/omega marks to level up their equipment
5. players will leave in droves to other MMO's
One of the best features as a lifetime player is the ability to refine upto a weeks worth of Dilithium upon logging in if you haven't been active for a few days. I have taken oppertunity of this so many times where I am away on holiday for a week or away for the weekend, I could grind for dilithium for a evening or 2 before going away to ensure I had enough to last me when I could not log in.
Now this is not going to be able to happen due to restricting dilithium and the time it takes to get it now
Lets go by Dahl's estimate of 4 hours to get 8K
To get enough dilithium to cover a week of being away from the game to refine when you return you will need 56,000 dilithium
This is equal to 28 hours straight playing only events which give dilithium, now this is will be over 2 days so you will obviously want 8k refined both of these days too, so we shall add another 8 hours to this time frame giving 36 straight hours gaming
Now no-one is going to game for this long at once, so to stick with the 2 day frame that equals to breaks of 6 hours for sleep and food... and to think Season 7 was supposed to stop the long grind.
Realistically to the causal gold player, you will rarely have enough time in game to accrue Dilithium for this gold benefit to be worth it
that comes out at 53 hours of grinding STF's hitting every optional along the way.
And how many hours of STF grinding was required to get a complete Mk XII space set under the old system? Oh yeah, that's right, under the old system there was no guarantee you would EVER get the Mk XII set even after thousands of hours of grinding. How is the new system worse again?
So you would not work for something like 30 Eurocents an hour for me? A pity.
But why would you then do that for a comparable amount of Dilithium? My conclusion: You wouldn't. You'd rather do things that are fun.
Which is the best approach to a game anyway.
Then people will gravitate to them yes, but they could have done that without cryptic gimping STF rewards. Here's a mind blowing thought, add dilithium to FA's and... leave the dilithium in STFs aswell. :eek:
I'm still not seeing the point of what you're talking about here (particularly now that you're using European currency...) could you please be more clear with your analogy?
And you bet I'd rather do things that are fun. This is why at the moment I'm Playing through S.T.A.L.K.E.R. call of pripyat, GTA4/stories, retro city rampage, the witcher 2, the walking dead and eagerly awaiting hitman absolution INSTEAD of "enjoying" the new changes in STO.
With a lack of viable reward, the fun things in STO just aren't fun enough to compete with the fun those other game provide me. With a viable reward I'm more willing to put myself through it for the eventual satisfaction a reward brings.
Last night I did 2 FA of SB24 - First one I killed 1(one Bop) and got 1440 dilthium and flew around watching the Chaos of everyone trying to beat the others to destroy everything.
That was great fun - but hey if only lasted 5 min and I had to only press my space bar 5 times - for 1440 dilthium
Next time I was like that was too much work so I took in the Oddy with the saucer sep and at the openning spawn point sent it in to battle while I just sat there - again watching the un-team play and bullying from a distence(people rushing to destroy a ship before the other guy could)
That was much better just let my saucer section do a little phaser firing - well shortly after the chaos ended I was awarded another 1440 dilthium for my effort.
Yeah the game is getting better and better - wait until the bots and professional AFKers start hitting these Fleet actions - that will be entertaining.
Lying to customers is very bad for a company; as for the rest >time sink versus reward<
just put the sets and gear in the cash shop for the ones that don?t want to grind and have the money to spend and get over it.
For the self entitled elitist jerks ...well!?! i guess we just have to assimilate them.
You don't "convert" Zen to Dilithium. You trade it with other players. Cryptic does not earn anything from that.
Could everyone just lean back and think for a moment... do you play the game for the Dilithium? No, you play it for entertainment. Dilithium is just a tiny part of the game.
Besides, to me it looks as if it will actually be easier to get Dilithium by doing the standard fleet actions.
Middle first - Part of enjoying the game is advancing my character so that they are better than when I started play that day, the other part is being able to actually enjoy the content I'm playing, and the rest, for an MMO, is enjoying the social aspects from the remainder of the playerbase.
When the stated goal is 30 days of maximum dilithium income for one set of end-game gear, okay, I can (sorta) live with that, it's advancement even though it does take a while. When the other half of the stated goal is that I'm supposed to spend that 30 days playing longer than "average", and, if I was to go over "average" by only 1/2 an hour, I'd be unable to advance anything else but my dilithium income. This isn't "a minor part of the game", this is a significant key to advancement...
And for the top - Zen comes from RL payments to Cryptic. Whether it's a direct infusion geared for Zen, a side effect from being subscribed, or legacy payments because of a massive infusion of cash from as far back as beta, someone is (has been) giving Cryptic money for the Zen.
The current payout, I can tell you from an evening of play, is around 3456 per hour. More from the academy event. It's only 8k over 4 hours if you also run events that don't award ANY dilithium, which drags the average down.
Cool. Academy event, maybe a contraband turn in, and *poof*, tons of Dil in an hour. As the saying would be, "for now - muahahaha"... I based my math off the claim in the blog that Cryptic desires 4 hours of playing their selected "dilithium granting content" (which, by the way, is selected to not grant any other end-game advancement except for maybe gear/ECs), and backed it up with their claims that, again, from the blog, the "average" player logs 3.5 hours/day, and that their goal (from a pre season-7 post) for the reputation system is 1 hour a day on 3 different days a week...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Well, they did. You can easily produce Dilithium from Omega Marks and Borg Neural Processors. Maybe a bit less, but still.
let me do the math for you...
to be simple, count 5 elite STF's.
in the old system, you received 5x 1100dil, + at least 10 EDC (=~1000dil), and i don't count the other rewards (tech, salvage) now. that makes out ~6500 dil, WORST CASE
if you were lucky (with tech/salvage drop), you could easily get 8-10k+ dil with 5 elite STF's, maybe between 7-8k in average.
now, you receive 5 borg neural processors, and 5x60 omega marks, (75, if you complete the optional). lets be optimist, count in the optional. that turns out to 5 BNP = 1000dil, and 5x75/50 = 7,5 x 500 dil (8x 500, if you have another 25omega marks from somewhere else). that turns out 5000 dil BEST CASE
and FYI, the omega mark to dilithium conversion only available if you reach teir5 of the omega reputation.
i wouldn't call that a bit less...
Defiant
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
let me do the math for you...
to be simple, count 5 elite STF's.
in the old system, you received 5x 1100dil, + at least 10 EDC (=~1000dil), and i don't count the other rewards (tech, salvage) now. that makes out ~6500 dil, WORST CASE
if you were lucky (with tech/salvage drop), you could easily get 8-10k+ dil with 5 elite STF's, maybe between 7-8k in average.
now, you receive 5 borg neural processors, and 5x60 omega marks, (75, if you complete the optional). lets be optimist, count in the optional. that turns out to 5 BNP = 1000dil, and 5x75/50 = 7,5 x 500 dil (8x 500, if you have another 25omega marks from somewhere else). that turns out 5000 dil BEST CASE
and FYI, the omega mark to dilithium conversion only available if you reach teir5 of the omega reputation.
i wouldn't call that a bit less...
Not to mention that from what I understand the Omega Marks to Dilithium conversion only starts after hitting tier 5, meaning that tiers 1-4 you're doing 5 times the work for 5 times less the reward for quite a while.
Not to mention that from what I understand the Omega Marks to Dilithium conversion only starts after hitting tier 5, meaning that tiers 1-4 you're doing 5 times the work for 5 times less the reward for quite a while.
yup, i wrote that at the end of my post
Defiant
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
Cryptic... I have defended you guys for the longest... This isn't right and you know it. So for once, play the game on the level of an average level 50 player and think...
The Average lvl 50 wanted to be an Abouve Average 51+ lvl long a go and you lost the chance to deliver. When AWEN had the next playable Faction you would liek to see
and over 7000 voted Romulan.. you had a chance to deliever.. thats the goodwill hole your dug and alianated my massive Star Fleet Battles Star Fleet Command Fleet.. they enjoyed
KDF for a few months and ran out of story based content and left.. 1 old hand came back and enjoys the added options.. F-2-P brought none of then back.
Paranoia is in bloom,
The PR, transmissions will resume
They'll try to, push drugs that keep us all dumbed down
And hope that, we will never see the truth around
(So come on)
Another promise, another seed
Another, packaged lie to keep us trapped in greed
And all the, green belts wrapped around our minds
And endless red tape to keep the truth confined
(So come on)
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious
So come on
Interchanging mind control
Come let the, revolution takes its toll
If you could, flick the switch and open your third eye
You'd see that, we should never be afraid to die
(So come on)
Rise up and take the power back
It's time the, fat cats had a heart attack
You know that, their time's coming to an end
We have to, unify and watch our flag ascend
(So come on)
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious
So come on
So, how much of this still applies, and how much has been nerfed/removed in the last few days? And how long will it be until half of the stuff that remains gets cut too?
Remember the backlash when contraband hand-ins went up from 3 to 5 (and took double the time), for the same amount of dilithium? That will be nothing compared to the fallout from this.
I love the consistent theme of saying something like "this was wrong" instead of "we decided we didn't like this" or "this didn't let us chisel enough money off of you" in these Dev blogs lately. :rolleyes:
Must really think the player base are all idiots if you believe nobody can see through that corporate shill BS.
And how many hours of STF grinding was required to get a complete Mk XII space set under the old system? Oh yeah, that's right, under the old system there was no guarantee you would EVER get the Mk XII set even after thousands of hours of grinding. How is the new system worse again?
there were other ways to achieve the same thing, like after X number of runs you recieved an accolade and prototype tech salvage for the particular stf. just one example, no reason to go to the rep system from the 'players can't get the gear' point of view, no reason to increase doff costs, are the increases and nerfs in dilithium across the board...
oh wait...yes there was a reason, money.
as i said in my last post, people who already have all they need don't give a frak about this update, it's all good. you look at it from another perspective, or several other perspectives of other gamers and it's BS. it's not even a well done money grab. it's obvious, only people wearing cryptics rose colored glasses see it any differently.
let cryptic defend themselves, blow more smoke up everyones exhaust manifolds...what they did and why they did it is obvious. especially since everything they did could have been done differently...
and one final nail, most popular faction got what this update? 2 more ships. spend spend spend, cryptic loves and listens to...your money. that's what they cater to.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
So, how much of this still applies, and how much has been nerfed/removed in the last few days? And how long will it be until half of the stuff that remains gets cut too?
Remember the backlash when contraband hand-ins went up from 3 to 5 (and took double the time), for the same amount of dilithium? That will be nothing compared to the fallout from this.
Dilithiumgate should be immortalised in an STOWiki page, with that page's information and Stahl's weak attempt at an excuse of a dev blog.
Evidence of how things used to be and hard and needlessly the devs nerfed it all in a cashgrab attempt.
P-fect aka perfect world and in-crypt-ed aka cryptic You can count on me NOT to play any other games you bring out. I am a sucker I quess. I gave you more than 2000.00 plus Life time membership awhile back to support the once was awsome game. You really F.U.B.A.R.'ed this game in so many ways!!! I dont say much on here. I rather play than spend time moaning about your TRIBBLE ups...But this time you have gone to far.. Im playing this game till the holidays are over with, to see if you by chance drop the game back to the old system or change things for the better..Then if not..Well I have a lvl 3 starbase and some property going up for sale! We lost about 20 players (friends) yesterday alone who said they were done with the game. And its just getting started.
PS. BTW Mr Stahl hope you bought some good beer with the extra money i gave you! You lieing SOB!
Faux-Intellectualism, I knew I'd come across it eventually.
Anti-Social is any act that is damaging, i.e. takes away from Social interaction. Unsocial is merely the avoidance of social interaction. Being social is actually meant to be read as being "pro-social" and that is how everyone currently interprets the phrase "being social". Being social requires being friendly to foster and compel beneficial social interaction from others.
When you say academic work, if you don't quote or reference original sources, it's meaningless and simply comes off as someone trying to legitimize their line of argument by making others believe it is authority and substantiated by dropping a word like academic.
It's not hard to read a few articles on the matter.
Disclaimer: Historically all MMORPG studies tend to be from relatively small data sample pools.
Citation is work. I come here to play. I havge had meltdowns over this before.
I'm not talking about studies for the most part. I'm talking qualitative critical work and, yes, I put my faith in that kind of work.
Why would I lie on a message board? People don't do that with communities they care about. It's a dumb accusation that will send me off on a two hour goose chase.
It's a repeated argument in Jane McGonigal's "Reality is Broken." There are several scholarly papers -- mostly fairly qualitative criticism from academics that she cites. There's a lot of work past that but she cites some of the more cited papers.
And I think that's GENUINE intellectualism, even without large samples or mounds of quantitative work that she cites. And I think a humanities professor's qualitative insight shouldn't be seen as inferior to quantitative inquiry. When analyzing a behavioral trend, the qualitative insight is the one that counts.
And I think someone who's a Ph.D studying this stuff deserves more respect than to dismiss it as somebody's opinion. It's never JUST somebody's opinion when somebody's life and studies hinge on some form of structural literary or cultural analysis.
Yesterday I did one Cure space (normal) with completed bonus objective (yes, I'm sure it was completed). I received 19 Omega Marks as a reward. So it means that to get 500 dilithium I will have to do that run 3 times, while before season 7 i would get 480 dili for just one run. Awesome...
Oh, and that also means that this:
"Approx. 20 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks"
Despite the fact that you obviously don't care at all what we have to say or think, I'd be remiss if I didn't state that I'm just as annoyed with all of you this morning as I was last night. PWE/Cryptic really showed its true colors yesterday, and now you just look foolish and disgraceful. I hope the loss of respect was worth it.
I'd have liked to have seen a dilithium reward added to completing any of the Featured Episode series. If you want to direct people to as much varied content as possible you shouldn't have just left it at the Fleet Actions in this initial update to the new system.
In addition when are we going to see Reputation Marks added to the Romulan and Borg episodes?
If you are unhappy with the behaviour of a company then stop giving them any money at all, this and only this will make the company rething their decisions!
Yesterday I did one Cure space (normal) with completed bonus objective (yes, I'm sure it was completed). I received 19 Omega Marks as a reward. So it means that to get 500 dilithium I will have to do that run 3 times, while before season 7 i would get 480 dili for just one run. Awesome...
Oh, and that also means that this:
"Approx. 20 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks"
is either a lie, or something is bugged.
That's Romulan Marks for Dil. 50 RM for 500 dil.
Once you have finished Tier 5 in a Reputation systems, you can convert Omega or Romulan Marks into Dilithium by running Reputation projects:
50 Marks = 500 Dilithium
STF BNP conversion to dil is even worse.
At any tier in the Omega Reputation system, you can convert Borg Neural Processors into Dilithium by running Reputation projects:
10 Borg Neural Processors = 1000 Dilithium
That means one BNP = 100 dil. Elite STFs used to reward 1100 dil. 10 Elite STF runs for 1000 dil...
Comments
Just to conclude: I really appreciate the effort you guys are doing. Just, please. Find a better solution for these problems. Once these things are solved, balance will be restored (and deferans will be happy
Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
As for the weird job offer, I'm afraid I'm unsure what you're getting at. Either way I already have a job that pays AND manages to be enjoyable so thanks, but no thanks.
Next few month? I did 3 stf today, and gonna do less just to get marks. Just need me one day to know STF are waste of time
One MK XII space item will set you back 1000 OM, 10 BNP & 34,000 Dilithium
One Elite STF with optional will get you 75 OM & 1 BNP.
So 14 STF's will get you all the OM's you need, with 50 OM and 4 BNP to spare.
That, using Dsthal's figures, is worth 900 dil, so only another 33100 to go, which you need another 39 runs converting everything into dil.
That's 53 runs per piece or 159 runs per set.
Assume an Elite STF is around 20 mins, that comes out at 53 hours of grinding STF's hitting every optional along the way. Yeah that sure does sounds like a great way to improve the entertainment value of STO.
1. New players levelling up, there isn't too much oppertunity to get huge amounts of Dilithium on your way to level 50 if you spend your time playing the missions.
2. Alt toons on account.
The first point is fair enough, give dilithium for fleet events so that low level players have a chance to get more dilithium to refine, this makes sense, 15 mins out of playing missions or between missions when you need to increase in rank slightly and it makes the time worth it.
As to the 2nd point, I will say I have only two alts atm, and neither of them have refined any dilithium in the past 6 months so surely this proves that it is bringing the averages down.
STFs were meant to be end game content, something for the player base to do when reaching VA.
These missions require tactics and teamwork, they are fun and the rewards at the end made them worth the time, unlike Fleet events you could get MK XII weapons or other drops that were worth someting for your time along with Dilithium.
Now all we get is Omega marks and that useless item (forget the name) that'll require 5 runs to get any dilithium out of it, there is no incentive to play these STFs anymore, and what the hell is the use of the Optional anymore either? Oh look we got the optional on elite... 15 extra omega marks... that was worth it...
Bring back the Dilithium and Drops for STFs!!!
Fleet events on the other hand do not require any skill, tactics or team play whatsoever, they are boring as hell as you don't need to think at all.
Anyone know if you get anything extra from rescuing the runabouts in the Klingon one? I haven't noticed anything.
Fleet events are biased towards Tactical captains/ships, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd placements are determined by DPS, this makes it nearly impossible for any science or engineering ships to rank 1st to get the Purple drops, at least int Stfs you had a chance.
If Cryptic really think they can change the game so that you will need to grind for upto 4 hours a day to get the 8K dilithium to increase refining they are sorely mistaken.
I can see the following things happen now
1. Less players play STFs
2. More players will play fleet events or other content alone to get the dilithium needed, thus detracting from being a MMO
3. There will be more people camping in fleet events to get the diltihium without doing anything.... while this can be seen good and bad by other players its annoying as hell still
4. Alts will not be played as often if at all as people will not have time to grind 2 or more toons to get dilithium/fleet marks/romulan marks/omega marks to level up their equipment
5. players will leave in droves to other MMO's
One of the best features as a lifetime player is the ability to refine upto a weeks worth of Dilithium upon logging in if you haven't been active for a few days. I have taken oppertunity of this so many times where I am away on holiday for a week or away for the weekend, I could grind for dilithium for a evening or 2 before going away to ensure I had enough to last me when I could not log in.
Now this is not going to be able to happen due to restricting dilithium and the time it takes to get it now
Lets go by Dahl's estimate of 4 hours to get 8K
To get enough dilithium to cover a week of being away from the game to refine when you return you will need 56,000 dilithium
This is equal to 28 hours straight playing only events which give dilithium, now this is will be over 2 days so you will obviously want 8k refined both of these days too, so we shall add another 8 hours to this time frame giving 36 straight hours gaming
Now no-one is going to game for this long at once, so to stick with the 2 day frame that equals to breaks of 6 hours for sleep and food... and to think Season 7 was supposed to stop the long grind.
Realistically to the causal gold player, you will rarely have enough time in game to accrue Dilithium for this gold benefit to be worth it
And how many hours of STF grinding was required to get a complete Mk XII space set under the old system? Oh yeah, that's right, under the old system there was no guarantee you would EVER get the Mk XII set even after thousands of hours of grinding. How is the new system worse again?
Then people will gravitate to them yes, but they could have done that without cryptic gimping STF rewards. Here's a mind blowing thought, add dilithium to FA's and... leave the dilithium in STFs aswell. :eek:
I'm still not seeing the point of what you're talking about here (particularly now that you're using European currency...) could you please be more clear with your analogy?
And you bet I'd rather do things that are fun. This is why at the moment I'm Playing through S.T.A.L.K.E.R. call of pripyat, GTA4/stories, retro city rampage, the witcher 2, the walking dead and eagerly awaiting hitman absolution INSTEAD of "enjoying" the new changes in STO.
With a lack of viable reward, the fun things in STO just aren't fun enough to compete with the fun those other game provide me. With a viable reward I'm more willing to put myself through it for the eventual satisfaction a reward brings.
classic. gg
That was great fun - but hey if only lasted 5 min and I had to only press my space bar 5 times - for 1440 dilthium
Next time I was like that was too much work so I took in the Oddy with the saucer sep and at the openning spawn point sent it in to battle while I just sat there - again watching the un-team play and bullying from a distence(people rushing to destroy a ship before the other guy could)
That was much better just let my saucer section do a little phaser firing - well shortly after the chaos ended I was awarded another 1440 dilthium for my effort.
Yeah the game is getting better and better - wait until the bots and professional AFKers start hitting these Fleet actions - that will be entertaining.
just put the sets and gear in the cash shop for the ones that don?t want to grind and have the money to spend and get over it.
For the self entitled elitist jerks ...well!?! i guess we just have to assimilate them.
Middle first - Part of enjoying the game is advancing my character so that they are better than when I started play that day, the other part is being able to actually enjoy the content I'm playing, and the rest, for an MMO, is enjoying the social aspects from the remainder of the playerbase.
When the stated goal is 30 days of maximum dilithium income for one set of end-game gear, okay, I can (sorta) live with that, it's advancement even though it does take a while. When the other half of the stated goal is that I'm supposed to spend that 30 days playing longer than "average", and, if I was to go over "average" by only 1/2 an hour, I'd be unable to advance anything else but my dilithium income. This isn't "a minor part of the game", this is a significant key to advancement...
And for the top - Zen comes from RL payments to Cryptic. Whether it's a direct infusion geared for Zen, a side effect from being subscribed, or legacy payments because of a massive infusion of cash from as far back as beta, someone is (has been) giving Cryptic money for the Zen.
Cool. Academy event, maybe a contraband turn in, and *poof*, tons of Dil in an hour. As the saying would be, "for now - muahahaha"... I based my math off the claim in the blog that Cryptic desires 4 hours of playing their selected "dilithium granting content" (which, by the way, is selected to not grant any other end-game advancement except for maybe gear/ECs), and backed it up with their claims that, again, from the blog, the "average" player logs 3.5 hours/day, and that their goal (from a pre season-7 post) for the reputation system is 1 hour a day on 3 different days a week...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
let me do the math for you...
to be simple, count 5 elite STF's.
in the old system, you received 5x 1100dil, + at least 10 EDC (=~1000dil), and i don't count the other rewards (tech, salvage) now. that makes out ~6500 dil, WORST CASE
if you were lucky (with tech/salvage drop), you could easily get 8-10k+ dil with 5 elite STF's, maybe between 7-8k in average.
now, you receive 5 borg neural processors, and 5x60 omega marks, (75, if you complete the optional). lets be optimist, count in the optional. that turns out to 5 BNP = 1000dil, and 5x75/50 = 7,5 x 500 dil (8x 500, if you have another 25omega marks from somewhere else). that turns out 5000 dil BEST CASE
and FYI, the omega mark to dilithium conversion only available if you reach teir5 of the omega reputation.
i wouldn't call that a bit less...
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
Not to mention that from what I understand the Omega Marks to Dilithium conversion only starts after hitting tier 5, meaning that tiers 1-4 you're doing 5 times the work for 5 times less the reward for quite a while.
yup, i wrote that at the end of my post
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
missed it amidst the rest of the wall-o-text, plus one should never forum post 10 minutes after prying oneself out of bed. My bad.
The Average lvl 50 wanted to be an Abouve Average 51+ lvl long a go and you lost the chance to deliver. When AWEN had the next playable Faction you would liek to see
and over 7000 voted Romulan.. you had a chance to deliever.. thats the goodwill hole your dug and alianated my massive Star Fleet Battles Star Fleet Command Fleet.. they enjoyed
KDF for a few months and ran out of story based content and left.. 1 old hand came back and enjoys the added options.. F-2-P brought none of then back.
Tsuki ni Kawatte Oshioki Yo
by Muse
Paranoia is in bloom,
The PR, transmissions will resume
They'll try to, push drugs that keep us all dumbed down
And hope that, we will never see the truth around
(So come on)
Another promise, another seed
Another, packaged lie to keep us trapped in greed
And all the, green belts wrapped around our minds
And endless red tape to keep the truth confined
(So come on)
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious
So come on
Interchanging mind control
Come let the, revolution takes its toll
If you could, flick the switch and open your third eye
You'd see that, we should never be afraid to die
(So come on)
Rise up and take the power back
It's time the, fat cats had a heart attack
You know that, their time's coming to an end
We have to, unify and watch our flag ascend
(So come on)
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious
So come on
Hey, hey, hey, hey
Hey, hey, hey, hey
Hey, hey, hey, hey
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious
So come on
Remember the backlash when contraband hand-ins went up from 3 to 5 (and took double the time), for the same amount of dilithium? That will be nothing compared to the fallout from this.
Must really think the player base are all idiots if you believe nobody can see through that corporate shill BS.
there were other ways to achieve the same thing, like after X number of runs you recieved an accolade and prototype tech salvage for the particular stf. just one example, no reason to go to the rep system from the 'players can't get the gear' point of view, no reason to increase doff costs, are the increases and nerfs in dilithium across the board...
oh wait...yes there was a reason, money.
as i said in my last post, people who already have all they need don't give a frak about this update, it's all good. you look at it from another perspective, or several other perspectives of other gamers and it's BS. it's not even a well done money grab. it's obvious, only people wearing cryptics rose colored glasses see it any differently.
let cryptic defend themselves, blow more smoke up everyones exhaust manifolds...what they did and why they did it is obvious. especially since everything they did could have been done differently...
and one final nail, most popular faction got what this update? 2 more ships. spend spend spend, cryptic loves and listens to...your money. that's what they cater to.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
Dilithiumgate should be immortalised in an STOWiki page, with that page's information and Stahl's weak attempt at an excuse of a dev blog.
Evidence of how things used to be and hard and needlessly the devs nerfed it all in a cashgrab attempt.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PS. BTW Mr Stahl hope you bought some good beer with the extra money i gave you! You lieing SOB!
Citation is work. I come here to play. I havge had meltdowns over this before.
I'm not talking about studies for the most part. I'm talking qualitative critical work and, yes, I put my faith in that kind of work.
Why would I lie on a message board? People don't do that with communities they care about. It's a dumb accusation that will send me off on a two hour goose chase.
It's a repeated argument in Jane McGonigal's "Reality is Broken." There are several scholarly papers -- mostly fairly qualitative criticism from academics that she cites. There's a lot of work past that but she cites some of the more cited papers.
And I think that's GENUINE intellectualism, even without large samples or mounds of quantitative work that she cites. And I think a humanities professor's qualitative insight shouldn't be seen as inferior to quantitative inquiry. When analyzing a behavioral trend, the qualitative insight is the one that counts.
And I think someone who's a Ph.D studying this stuff deserves more respect than to dismiss it as somebody's opinion. It's never JUST somebody's opinion when somebody's life and studies hinge on some form of structural literary or cultural analysis.
Yesterday I did one Cure space (normal) with completed bonus objective (yes, I'm sure it was completed). I received 19 Omega Marks as a reward. So it means that to get 500 dilithium I will have to do that run 3 times, while before season 7 i would get 480 dili for just one run. Awesome...
Oh, and that also means that this:
"Approx. 20 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks"
is either a lie, or something is bugged.
Despite the fact that you obviously don't care at all what we have to say or think, I'd be remiss if I didn't state that I'm just as annoyed with all of you this morning as I was last night. PWE/Cryptic really showed its true colors yesterday, and now you just look foolish and disgraceful. I hope the loss of respect was worth it.
In addition when are we going to see Reputation Marks added to the Romulan and Borg episodes?
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Link: Castra - a german Fleet.
That's Romulan Marks for Dil. 50 RM for 500 dil.
STF BNP conversion to dil is even worse.
That means one BNP = 100 dil. Elite STFs used to reward 1100 dil. 10 Elite STF runs for 1000 dil...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]