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There NEEDS to be a Level Gate to Fleet Missions
hasukurobi
Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
Today I was doing Fleet Starbase Defense and what was our enemy of choice? The Borg... That was bad enough but consider that what we have here are Borg ships Vs. folks in MIRANDAS! I was max level but there were a number who were not.
This happens all the time where you get low level folks in these missions and while it would be fine for them to team together at a lower level against lower level enemies it is very bad when they mix with higher level folks. No matter WHAT you do to boost a Miranda it will NEVER have the power of a lvl 50 in a Tier 5 ship. It will pop fast, deal next to no damage, and have no worthwhile support powers. So essentially you have allowed us to go into battle with ships that may as well not be there instead of actual helpers.
Now understand, this is not a rant against new players at all. It is not their fault they get teamed with higher level folks to battle these outrageous forces. There just NEEDS to be a level lock on these missions so that either everyone who does them NEEDS to be lvl 50 OR they will at least only get paired with folks in their same grade.
On a side Rant though... The enemy ships in these are stupid buffed. I mean I have flown a number of these Klingon ships and they are nowhere near that powerful. Isometric Charge is only that deadly after maxed Attack Pattern Alpha & Omega III with full Particle Generators when it has bounced to its limit as a for instance. The Bortasqu' is a very powerful and tough ship but it does not have shields that have 100's of thousands of hit points per facing that regenerate in the tens of thousands per click. I have never liked the "Cheating" enemy who is just OP for the sake of being OP. I do not mind the Borg being super vicious but can we maybe have the ships we can actually FLY behave the way ours do? Otherwise it begs the question why our ships are so much less powerful.
This happens all the time where you get low level folks in these missions and while it would be fine for them to team together at a lower level against lower level enemies it is very bad when they mix with higher level folks. No matter WHAT you do to boost a Miranda it will NEVER have the power of a lvl 50 in a Tier 5 ship. It will pop fast, deal next to no damage, and have no worthwhile support powers. So essentially you have allowed us to go into battle with ships that may as well not be there instead of actual helpers.
Now understand, this is not a rant against new players at all. It is not their fault they get teamed with higher level folks to battle these outrageous forces. There just NEEDS to be a level lock on these missions so that either everyone who does them NEEDS to be lvl 50 OR they will at least only get paired with folks in their same grade.
On a side Rant though... The enemy ships in these are stupid buffed. I mean I have flown a number of these Klingon ships and they are nowhere near that powerful. Isometric Charge is only that deadly after maxed Attack Pattern Alpha & Omega III with full Particle Generators when it has bounced to its limit as a for instance. The Bortasqu' is a very powerful and tough ship but it does not have shields that have 100's of thousands of hit points per facing that regenerate in the tens of thousands per click. I have never liked the "Cheating" enemy who is just OP for the sake of being OP. I do not mind the Borg being super vicious but can we maybe have the ships we can actually FLY behave the way ours do? Otherwise it begs the question why our ships are so much less powerful.
Post edited by hasukurobi on
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Maybe a better solution would be to scale the rewards based on the character levels present -- so if you have two Vice Admirals and three LT5s on a Fleet Alert, the game would see that you are doing a 250-level mission with only 115 levels and make the Fleet Mark rewards x2.17. This way, even if you lose the mission because of inadequate DPS, you would be compensated by higher rewards for the early stages.
Or maybe I'm just crazy :eek:
Just my 2 ECs
I still don't understand why they just don't scale this damned event like they do with the Mirror Universe event.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Although it would be important to adjust the system in a more innovative ways (as opposed to upper their boosted damage output and HP) so as not to encourage high level players from returning to lower tier ships as a mainstream way of steamrolling content with little effort or button mashing.
I want to continue to see lower level players mix with higher levels - but the rewards need to be attuned to each group and one group should not hamper the other.
Battle of Wolf 359. That had Mirandas and the like fighting the Borg alongside Defiants and Sovereigns. Why not in game too?
These are fleet missions. Which means that everyone in a fleet should be able to join in. This will be the reason for allowing Lieutenants on the same map as VAs. Gating people by level will remove a lot of the purpose of these events - allowing fleets to work together the achieve a goal.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I feel bad for the lowbies when I see them in the fleet mark events as well too. I try and use my ship the best I can (like when I'm in my Armitage I will often assign my fighters to escort one of the lowbies to assist in his DPS since the vast majority of my DPS comes from my cannons anyway).
As people said, you don't want to be mad at them. It's not their fault and I don't want to gate it since I like bortjinx's general concept of the fleet/group all working together, regardless of rank.
But there needs to be more done to help compensate for the fact that low tier ships just cannot handle the number of ships that assault the base, due not to the captain, but due to the lack of consoles, weapon hardpoints and BOff slotting.
At the same time, you don't want to nerf it either and make it a turkey shoot for VAs.
I don't know what the solution is, but it is a problem.
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
The present situation is bad. It should be improved..
A five person mission require that everybody on the team by a strong contributor. So maybe the real solution, if we like variety and the chance for lower levels to participate, is to make the events bigger so each player has a smaller burden to bear. Or to make them work by levels instead of players: maybe the match has a "cumulative level" of 250, and it will keep adding new players until it reaches that. So 5 level 50 players, or 3 level 50s, plus 2 level 35s, plus 2 level 15s. Or maybe even add NPC players to the match to keep the team's total level relevant: low level character brings in a Miranda, the starbase launches a Typhoon class battleship and a wing of Delta Flyers (all respawn) to help you out.
That would be less frustrating for both VA- and Lt.-level players.
Currently, when finding a low-level ship in a Fleet Action, I'm using the same strategy as when I'm grouped with an afk-leecher in an STF. I leave immediately.
This is the purpose of fleet content. To allow fleets to do stuff together. Not for fleets to be split into smaller groups because they are different ranks. Otherwise, what is the point of having fleet content, if all that is going to happen is members of the fleet would end up in different instances, completely removing the whole idea of fleets doing fleet content, you know, as a fleet.
If you don't like it, perhaps you should find a fleet where everyone is the same rank as you.
If they can't be bothered to get to 45 they don;t get to contribute simple.
Look this isnlt just an inside a fleet issue, it's a huge issue in pugs. I've had at leats one run in 10 situations where i'm the only person in somthing better than a T2 ship on a team of 5. One player simply cannot carry the whole group like that, it dosen't work that way. Hell given average player competance even 1 non-T5 ship is a serious handicap, let along severla of them.
Fact is they just shouodn;t be there, they take the missions and make them drasticlly harder. i've never been part of a 5 man that had even 1 lowbie in that didn't have a horribble run and bassiclly fail hard.
i use a shuttle
in pvp i see a guy in that golf ball science ship and he not only does not die but he kills people
you used to be able toi do STF's in shuttles
and they bloicked it, but thats ok cause i got all the stuf i needed and am tired of them anywqay
except i like fleet defence and no win
cause i can bring my shuttle
my shuttle of horror
and watfdch the fleet boys cry home to mama
Bigger problem with fleet events is the number of people who have NFC on what they are supposed to do and refuse to listen when you tell them.
Jim
That being said, I can understand how some people may be frustrated. Here's a possible solution. Rather than limit something to 5 ships, limit it to, say, 50 ship points. A VA would be worth 10 points and a lieutenant would be worth 3. All other ranks would be scaled in between. The match would start when between 50 - 55 ship points were achieved. This way, rather than losing out on a VA to a lieutenant you'd lose a VA to two lieutenants, a comdr and a captain, for example.
I feel that this would satisfy the canon and spirit of Trek as well as provide a solution that makes sense.
That's not the true problem here. The real problem, and I've seen this many times, is when a new or inexperienced player tries to play a fleet mission, says in team chat that they are new and don't know what to do, and they are told to, and I quote: "Learn to play, Noob!".
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
But there is no check on segregation by the players themselves:
10 pointer: Hey there, wanna play in a fleet action?
Other pointer: Sure!
10 pointer: How many points are you worth?
Other pointer: 5
10 pointer: Oh. Sorry, too low. Good luck!
LTs should be able to play with VAs. What really needs to happen is the players need to learn their role in a through research and not expect to be hand-held. For those with experience, remember *you* were an LT once and had to enter the Fleet action for the first time as well. If anyone helped you then pass it forward.
Captain Ruri Gokou of the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk
Catian Atrox Carrier
I would be OK with this idea, though it would need to address Scarlet's concern. I suspect, however, that would be fairly easy to do on the back end.
Hmmm... the more I think about this the more I like it.
Heineko, you can pug the fleet missions through the PVE queue. You might need to be a member of a fleet - some of the scripting is based on a random players' fleet info after all - but I know as a fact that members of more than one fleet can be pugged together by the queuing system.
The missions can be pretty fun, though the rewards are not very competitive.
Your thinking of the battle of sector 001, but yes your point is valid.
There would be 5 slots reserved for people under the level of 30, if these slots are not filled then the mission can still go ahead but it would be 5 over 30's fighting a mission designed for 5 over 30's. If some under 30's join then they get allocated to the under 30 spots, the mission also doesn't start until the 5 over 30 slots are filled. That way you get the extra help of some lowbies but also have a decent team to fight with.
This would also grant lowbies tonnes of experience for later on in the game.
Squirrel
Vulcan Kolinahr Fleet
Live Long and Prosper
It's fine, the game should knock you on your TRIBBLE every now and then. It's good for you.
Wasn't Wolf 359 the battle at the start of First Contact? Or was it the one in the TNG series? I forget tbh.
Edit: Nvm, someone cleared it up. I was thinking of the battle for Sector 001 in First Contact.
Edit 2: Having caught up with the posts in this thread, I'm left wondering why some of you are even in fleets at all. You don't seem to have any inclination to work with your fleet's lower ranked members. If you don't like encountering lower levels in the PvE queue that is expressly set up to allow for all ranks to work together, then simple, stay out of that PvE queue and put together your own group for those events.
But don't complain that a fleet event actually allows fleets to work together regardless of rank. This is working as intended, and I for one, like it.
The match level system needs to be redesigned. Perhaps let lower levels gain temporarily access to their higher level BO abilities. Or perhaps instead of matching highest level, we should be matching lower level. Either way, a balance needs to be made so low levels are not useless while at the same time not letting the high levels blast away all the mobs. When I help a lower player, they tend to want to do their part, not watch me blast everything for them.