Cruisers can kill anything an escort can. The difference is that it takes a cruiser much longer to do it. This is of course not news to anyone. Timed missions don't do cruisers any favors. Cruisers can go toe to toe with an enemy for days, problem is you don't have days because the mission clock is going tick...tick...tick. Meanwhile the escorts are darting about killing everything in sight. I can see where cruiser skippers get the feeling that they're underpowered. Cruisers aren't underpowered...it's just that so many missions in STO depend on killing the enemy as fast as possible and that's not the cruiser's strong suit. It's not cruisers that need an overhaul...it's the missions.
Cruisers aren't underpowered...it's just that so many missions in STO depend on killing the enemy as fast as possible and that's not the cruiser's strong suit. It's not cruisers that need an overhaul...it's the missions.
Not sure I agree as we have got the stage now where sci ships out damage cruisers. How many sci ships are there with 3 or 4 tactical slots and sensor analysis? Ships like assault cruiser are starting to feel very underwhelming as there role is DPS with tank but they cannot really do it.
If anyone calls me a noob (like the arrogant prick that put 'noob' in the title of a certain sticked 'help' thread), I'll feed you to my pack of cannibalistic tribbles!
If you're a Liberated (or assimilated) Borg, they'll eat your implants as well! They aren't picky...
With that said...
I've found that science vessels are fantastic in how many debuffs they can do to pretty much cripple opponenets!
You only ever need one or two for most spots to really make things that much faster.
I doubt they're reading this, but hats off to the one or two science people who have the buffs to help other teammates who are low on shields. Saved meh more than once on occasion!
Escorts are crazy. Super high turn radius AND insane damage but squishy. I feel this is fitting fairly well with how the class works.
As for cruisers, meh. I'm in a light cruiser and the painfully-slow turn speed is terrible unless I'm using 'Evasive Maneuvers' about once every 1.5 minutes.
I believe cruisers could have a cruiser-specific weapon type that focuses on AoE damage. It would hit multiple targets and possibly apply a light DoT for continual damage in addition to the other effects that the energy type would give.
Perhaps restrict the best explosives/torpedoes/etc to cruisers? Make them focused on the big AoE burst while the escorts focus on burst single-target damage?
1&2 are all in PWE's hands, I'll keep trying to help with 3, as unlikely as it is to happen
Maybe an example will help, to show where many have a too immediate mentallity:
Consider 2 setups fighting a Tactical Cube:
A) Great Escort, good Cruiser. Great Escort, good Escort.
Now, which of those setups has the best DPS? No, it's not B.
See, in setup B, both Escorts either blow up sometimes or they have to retreat or they're fighting from a safe distance where they take much less damage (but deal much less as well) whereas in setup A, the Cruiser tanks, allowing the Escort to stay point-blank to the target with no fear of destruction and that difference, on top of the Cruiser's own DPS, is what makes setup A more damaging.
Tanks are already beneficial. Not mandatory, but beneficial.
Problem is:
- Most Cruiser pilots don't even want to tank, they seem to just want a super-ship with an Escort's firepower AND massive durability. Pure munchkin mentallity.
- Most Escort pilots don't realise when someone else is tanking and they can unleash at point-blank.
I can tank a Gate or Tac Cube on the Bortas from 100% to 0% and the Escorts are still zipping around, wasting a lot of DPS.
Would I still be tanking if they didn't? Maybe, maybe not, but at least I'd be challenged: with maxed Threat Control, it's really trivial to hold Threat at present.
My problem with Threat Control is that its not toggleable. I'd very much want to spec into that; I have a cruiser and I love tanking in mmo gameplay.
Even as an escort, I'd like to hit the stance toggle, lose half HP, and Go Down Fighting, while drawing fire from someone else who's really about to go down. In PVP that stance would be active all the time.
Its very useful... just not all the damn time! Tanking would be more common if we had a choice to when we want to Draw Fire.
Give us a Ens Tac slot ability for Draw Fire, and remove that from our ground skills... Tacs can tank in space, not on the ground!!
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
I have a Tac Oddy. Fantastic ship, a great hearler and tank. I guess my biggest hangup about the bigger cruisers is mounting torps. I can't see wasting a slot, even the 180 torp, on an Oddy or Galaxy. Even 7 turrets and a torp will leave you motionless infront of your target, or having to turn once you pass to get that torp back in the firing arc.
Torps should be far more viable an option for the big boats, and not with a 2500 zen price tag.
Galaxy variant cstore ships need to be on par with the Oddy cstore ships.
Don't nerf escorts or sci ships, just try to find creative ways to make big boats more useful, and I say this as a guy who has been in elite stfs with 4 other cruisers, as well as flying an escort with 4 other escorts. The difference is night and day, and not the fault of the escort ship, but the design of the cruiser.
Galaxy variant cstore ships need to be on par with the Oddy cstore ships.
No. No. Just... NO. There is no justification for this. Anywhere. The Odyssey is supposed to be the superior ship. Why would you want to insult it by doing this? I agree the Galaxy is underpowered, but news flash, it's not the only cruiser out there. This is not a Galaxy thread. You want to bmw about cryptic insulting that particular ship, then go make a new thread. Just as I don't want this to turn into a cruiser vs escort thread, I am just as against it becoming another pointless Galaxy thread.
Don't take this the wrong way, but that's an outdated, overused, killed many times over from usage design. And no way in hell would I ever support a Galaxy being as powerful as an Odyssey. Ever.
-.-
*rage over*
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Look Guys, I think we an all agree that cruisers were fine and dandy pre-season 6... so why not just reset their combat capabilities to what they were then? That would restore balance without needing new weapons, skills, buffs etc.
Look Guys, I think we an all agree that cruisers were fine and dandy pre-season 6... so why not just reset their combat capabilities to what they were then? That would restore balance without needing new weapons, skills, buffs etc.
Just a thought that will likely be ignored
i still can't see anything that nerfed directly or indirectly how cruisers performed before season 6. that was also discussed in a thread few month ago, and nothing of substance was found there as i recall. So yeah, undo all changes done to the cruiser during season 6...won't change anything significant.
as i said before...most cruiser complains are about the galaxy r, and that ship needs some change.
most other cruisers just perform as they should, atleast the 3 i used lately do. (assault cruiser, starcruiser, oddy starcruiser)
No. No. Just... NO. There is no justification for this. Anywhere. The Odyssey is supposed to be the superior ship. Why would you want to insult it by doing this? I agree the Galaxy is underpowered, but news flash, it's not the only cruiser out there. This is not a Galaxy thread. You want to bmw about cryptic insulting that particular ship, then go make a new thread. Just as I don't want this to turn into a cruiser vs escort thread, I am just as against it becoming another pointless Galaxy thread.
Don't take this the wrong way, but that's an outdated, overused, killed many times over from usage design. And no way in hell would I ever support a Galaxy being as powerful as an Odyssey. Ever.
-.-
*rage over*
So why does Excelsior insult the Galaxy then ?
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i still can't see anything that nerfed directly or indirectly how cruisers performed before season 6. that was also discussed in a thread few month ago, and nothing of substance was found there as i recall. So yeah, undo all changes done to the cruiser during season 6...won't change anything significant.
I remember having that discussion and I'm not sure if it was cruisers, it may be the NPCs getting better resistances (Low level sustained damage would suffer but burst is generally so high that it doesn't matter), however something definitely changed even if it wasn't with cruisers, if my jack of all trades Excelsior didn't fall flat on it's face with season 6 I wouldn't have the build I do now so going back a little, seeing what made such builds fail dismally and reversing that would go some way to solving that.
as i said before...most cruiser complains are about the galaxy r, and that ship needs some change.
most other cruisers just perform as they should, atleast the 3 i used lately do. (assault cruiser, starcruiser, oddy starcruiser)
I agree that the Galaxy could do with a few changes, playing with BOFFs, a nicer turn rate... that sort of thing, although the Galaxy variants are very eng heavy I think it's to compensate for the lack of tanking the tac captain brings so that they can stay in a fight and use the tac career skills to do damage in large quantities and ok tht doesn't sit well with engineers and there should be an element of customisation for all the ships (perhaps a uni BOFF on all ships) so that you can better suit it to the captain.
I have a Tac Oddy. Fantastic ship, a great hearler and tank. I guess my biggest hangup about the bigger cruisers is mounting torps. I can't see wasting a slot, even the 180 torp, on an Oddy or Galaxy. Even 7 turrets and a torp will leave you motionless infront of your target, or having to turn once you pass to get that torp back in the firing arc.
Torps should be far more viable an option for the big boats, and not with a 2500 zen price tag.
When I run the tac Oddy I use TS 1 and 2 and the 180 degree with 7 beams and i never stop broadsiding while throwing out torpedoes every 15 seconds...
My problem with Threat Control is that its not toggleable.
That's one problem with Threat Control. The other is that it's a damned expensive skill and it's sitting there competing for attention with other, much more attractive skills. I personally feel that it should be swapped with Attack Patterns on the skill tree. At 1000 skill points per level it would be much less of a sacrifice to skill into and Attack Patterns is actually very, very cheap considering how powerful the skills it buffs are.
Regarding the turn point, I tried a little experiment in my tac oddy, cycling aux to dampeners. With the omega engines at 25(45) engine power managed to get about 13 degrees turn at full speed. Just enough to justify trying 4 ap cannon front and 4 turrets rear. Wasn't appalling, wasn't great.
Regarding the turn point, I tried a little experiment in my tac oddy, cycling aux to dampeners. With the omega engines at 25(45) engine power managed to get about 13 degrees turn at full speed. Just enough to justify trying 4 ap cannon front and 4 turrets rear. Wasn't appalling, wasn't great.
What's your turning radius like? I find that it's easy enough to boost turn rate on a cruiser, but most of the time thanks to inertia ratings I find that it takes me something like 2.5-4 km to make that turn when they have really low base turn rates.
What's your turning radius like? I find that it's easy enough to boost turn rate on a cruiser, but most of the time thanks to inertia ratings I find that it takes me something like 2.5-4 km to make that turn when they have really low base turn rates.
Pretty big tbh, but if I flew it all the time inertia would be something i'd fly around: throttling back to make a sharp turn, that kind of thing. I'd also swap the monotanium console for another neutronium for 4 in total: aux to dampeners gives a kinetic resist bonus.
It kind of worked. Pretty niche though. Best thing is, it'd leave you free to chain ep power to X as well, I believe.
Personally, I thi nk cruisers are fine, right up to when you hit VA. Then you start end game stuff and realise that currently escorts are fairly solid and kick out a shed load more damage. Dunno if any ones suggested this before, but how about cruisers having some form of innate power drain resistance, but keep everything else the same?
Not trying to start any cruiser vs escort shenanigans.
When I run the tac Oddy I use TS 1 and 2 and the 180 degree with 7 beams and i never stop broadsiding while throwing out torpedoes every 15 seconds...
Found it very effective?
2500 zen for 1 torp, and only one damage type at that. that's not very fair to cruiser players in my opinion. As too how effective, you have to consider how many skills and consoles your sacrifing for that one quantum torpedo.
No. No. Just... NO. There is no justification for this. Anywhere. The Odyssey is supposed to be the superior ship. Why would you want to insult it by doing this? I agree the Galaxy is underpowered, but news flash, it's not the only cruiser out there. This is not a Galaxy thread. You want to bmw about cryptic insulting that particular ship, then go make a new thread. Just as I don't want this to turn into a cruiser vs escort thread, I am just as against it becoming another pointless Galaxy thread.
Don't take this the wrong way, but that's an outdated, overused, killed many times over from usage design. And no way in hell would I ever support a Galaxy being as powerful as an Odyssey. Ever.
-.-
*rage over*
LOL and the Excelsior should be be retired. People want to fly their favorite ships, not have players like you dictate what should be the best at endgame.
Look Guys, I think we an all agree that cruisers were fine and dandy pre-season 6... so why not just reset their combat capabilities to what they were then? That would restore balance without needing new weapons, skills, buffs etc.
Just a thought that will likely be ignored
I've heard you lamenting how jack of all trades cruisers are worthless now, but you also said that very recently someone had finally convinced you to shift your power (to weapons if memory serves). So I have to ask just WHAT this jack of all trades cruiser you can't use anymore was? It didn't have all power to weapons or shields from what I can gather, so it was neither good at DPS nor tanking.
Have you considered that this jack of all trades cruiser may in fact have never been useful at all? That whatever changes you keep wanting to roll back did in fact do nothing more than bring said uselessness to light better than before?
I'm really trying to understand how this jack of all trades cruiser you keep bringing up actually worked. My only cruiser experience is post S6, so I'm not sure how a jack of all trades cruiser could have ever worked before, since I can't seem to find what the big changes to cruisers were. What's more, since I build my cruisers with an eye towards DPS and "just enough" tankiness to barely hang on while tanking a gate and a tac cube I can't imagine how anything else would've worked as an useful build for PvE? I mean.. you do damage and you tank, throw in some debuffs and that's what I think cruisers are meant to be, and they work AMAZINGLY well at it.
Consoles:
borg, 2x neut, 1 mono
2x field gen
3x tet consoles
(Written at 01:00 so I will clarify later if requested)
the above is the "Jack of all trades cruiser build I was using pre S6
well jam sensors is simply TRIBBLE...only way for cruiser is HE and TSS. Aux to sif 1 is too low. get aux2sif3.
i suggest: TT1, delta1 or beta1, faw3 or TT1, spread 2, faw3
ET1, RSP, EWP1, aux2sif3
EptW1, EPtS2
EPtS1 or EPtW1(situational)
HE1, TSS2
use 7 beams and only one torp tube front.
get 2 DOFFs that increase powerlevels on Emergency power to x and 1 or 2 that decrease the cooldown.
run atleast 100 power on weapon , so that when you hit EPtW it goes over the 125. it will counter the drain even if it is over 125.
leave engine power at absolute minimum, raise shield above 50...rest in aux.
now you have 3 support heals (if you get a ExS instead of EWP, you have 4) if you are under fire you can rotate EPtS constantly...should also proc your doffs to boost HE1, TSS2 and aux to sif for further powerfull heals that you can share with others.
tbh i would actually rather play an excelsior with 3 DBB front and 4 turrets back and BO3, but thats personal preference. and rotating 2x EPtW1.
For a "jack of all trades" build any oddy is better, even the free one.
Sorry I should have said about my power levels being min engines and aux with a balance of weaps and shields, when runing the EPtX i could have 125 out of the one that was up
But as stated multiple times that used to be quite effective and outperformed some pug escorts at the time.
LOL and the Excelsior should be be retired. People want to fly their favorite ships, not have players like you dictate what should be the best at endgame.
I am not dictating to other players what should be best endgame. I don't have to. The game does that already. And I agree, the Excelsior should be retired, but since it's so popular, it was put into game. And it's actually a very nasty little ship. I had one go head to head with my Tac Oddy and it was able to hold it's own. It never went through my shields, but it survived very well.
As for your other statement about flying your fave ship, by all means please do. I certainly won't stop you. But I won't support everyone having their favorite ship be the most powerful. I already said that yes, the Galaxy is underpowered. I have said it many times over many threads. I agree that for such an iconic ship, it got the short end of the stick, but they gave us alternatives that are very powerful.
I mean, what is the Regent? Just a pretty skin? Well other than that, it's also a very powerful cruiser. It's one of the four purely tactical cruisers. That includes the Assault Cruiser, Mirror Universe Assault Cruiser, Regent Class Cruiser, and Tactical Odyssey Cruiser. You want a cruiser that can deal damage, use one of those four.
If you want a cruiser that will never die and can tank to kingdom come, use a Star Cruiser, Mirror Star Cruiser, Fleet Star Cruiser, Galaxy-R, Science and Operations Odysseys. But don't expect them to be able to deal tons of damage. At least not the way the others listed above can.
As for ships I don't honestly know how to classify, well those include the Galor and Excelsior, since those two ships are nimble little buggers that can deal damage and tank, but not as well as the others in either respect simply due to design (I may be wrong here, but don't blast me too hard plox, the Borg do it enough already). And the D'kora? I still am having trouble figuring out what that ship is XD.
That being said, in answer to your comment above, if your favorite ship doesn't cut it quite like you want it to, there are alternatives. They may not be your favorite ship, but at least they exist. Hell, I was dubious about the Odyssey when I first saw it, and was still quite fond of my Sovereign, but I gave it a chance, and now I love it. It may not be that pretty, but it grows on you, and eventually you get used to it, then start to like it, and now like me, really like it.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I am not dictating to other players what should be best endgame. I don't have to. The game does that already. And I agree, the Excelsior should be retired, but since it's so popular, it was put into game. And it's actually a very nasty little ship. I had one go head to head with my Tac Oddy and it was able to hold it's own. It never went through my shields, but it survived very well.
As for your other statement about flying your fave ship, by all means please do. I certainly won't stop you. But I won't support everyone having their favorite ship be the most powerful. I already said that yes, the Galaxy is underpowered. I have said it many times over many threads. I agree that for such an iconic ship, it got the short end of the stick, but they gave us alternatives that are very powerful.
I mean, what is the Regent? Just a pretty skin? Well other than that, it's also a very powerful cruiser. It's one of the four purely tactical cruisers. That includes the Assault Cruiser, Mirror Universe Assault Cruiser, Regent Class Cruiser, and Tactical Odyssey Cruiser. You want a cruiser that can deal damage, use one of those four.
If you want a cruiser that will never die and can tank to kingdom come, use a Star Cruiser, Mirror Star Cruiser, Fleet Star Cruiser, Galaxy-R, Science and Operations Odysseys. But don't expect them to be able to deal tons of damage. At least not the way the others listed above can.
As for ships I don't honestly know how to classify, well those include the Galor and Excelsior, since those two ships are nimble little buggers that can deal damage and tank, but not as well as the others in either respect simply due to design (I may be wrong here, but don't blast me too hard plox, the Borg do it enough already). And the D'kora? I still am having trouble figuring out what that ship is XD.
That being said, in answer to your comment above, if your favorite ship doesn't cut it quite like you want it to, there are alternatives. They may not be your favorite ship, but at least they exist. Hell, I was dubious about the Odyssey when I first saw it, and was still quite fond of my Sovereign, but I gave it a chance, and now I love it. It may not be that pretty, but it grows on you, and eventually you get used to it, then start to like it, and now like me, really like it.
Lets talk about popular for a minute.
How many tv show episodes and or movies has the ODDY been in?
Now compare that number, to say, the Galaxy or Soveriegn.
Simple truth, people are attracted to STO are most likely fans of the tv shows and films. The Galaxy Enterprise and the Sovereign Enterprise were just as much a staring character as Jean Luc Picard and Data.
Look around, how much of STO's modelling is based off TNG/DS9/Voyager. 50%, 75%, 99% of the game features content that looks and feels like those shows in my opinion. Yet the those iconic ships, including the Voyager, are obsolete by vessels with little or no tv/movie time.
One of the most powerful ships in the game isn't even a Federation or Klingon vessel, it's a bug! I have nothing personal against the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, but it's small beans in the big scheme of Star Trek.
Now I think they did an amazing job designing the Oddy. It fits into the Star Trek universe well. But I prolly will never see it on the big screen. I am fortunate enough to have seen many Enterprises, including the D and the E on the silverscreen. They are, for lack of a better term, moviestars. They deserve more respect than STO gives them. Without them, there would be no STO period!
How many tv show episodes and or movies has the ODDY been in?
Now compare that number, to say, the Galaxy or Soveriegn.
Simple truth, people are attracted to STO are most likely fans of the tv shows and films. The Galaxy Enterprise and the Sovereign Enterprise were just as much a staring character as Jean Luc Picard and Data.
Look around, how much of STO's modelling is based off TNG/DS9/Voyager. 50%, 75%, 99% of the game features content that looks and feels like those shows in my opinion. Yet the those iconic ships, including the Voyager, are obsolete by vessels with little or no tv/movie time.
One of the most powerful ships in the game isn't even a Federation or Klingon vessel, it's a bug! I have nothing personal against the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, but it's small beans in the big scheme of Star Trek.
Now I think they did an amazing job designing the Oddy. It fits into the Star Trek universe well. But I prolly will never see it on the big screen. I am fortunate enough to have seen many Enterprises, including the D and the E on the silverscreen. They are, for lack of a better term, moviestars. They deserve more respect than STO gives them. Without them, there would be no STO period!
...
I think I stated quite a few times that I am saddened by the fact that so many iconic ships got shafted. I don't really know the purpose of your post, and why you quoted mine in making it.
And I agree with a lot of what you said, but I am just going to swallow my pride and go with what the game gives me. Regardless of personal feeling (except in the case of the Excelsior. There isn't enough zen in the world to make me fly that thing).
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
To your comment earlier about the D'Kora and where does it fit.... I won one this summer, didn't like it at first, but I kept reading about it and have developed a build that rocks, imo. :cool:
This ship won't win a turning battle with an escort, but it can be a real Borg buster (high dps) and tank at the same time. It is a cross between a cruiser and escort. It has a base hull of 39k and can mount DHC!
This ship pulls aggro all the time and can handle it for the most part. It is fun to fire the EMP, then switch to Battle Mode and hit the target with Polaron, Disruptor, and Tetyron Glider procs/buff, then drop the Tricobalt mine against a bare hull :cool:. The swarm missles are there in reserve too, but long cool down. You can also do a decent amount of heals for your team with it.
I think many under-estimate the capabilities of this ship. I am not sure if this fits the theme of your thread, but I thought I would share.
This is my main ship now for the above, plus I have access to the Exchange, Bank, and Mail from my bridge.
Comments
Cruiser/Battlecruiser only, restrict them to highest Tier.
Same arc as a standard beam array but with the punch of a DBB.
Thats how you give a Cruiser some more teeth. Thats how you give a Ship Of The Line its true Battleship firepower.
If you're a Liberated (or assimilated) Borg, they'll eat your implants as well! They aren't picky...
With that said...
I've found that science vessels are fantastic in how many debuffs they can do to pretty much cripple opponenets!
You only ever need one or two for most spots to really make things that much faster.
I doubt they're reading this, but hats off to the one or two science people who have the buffs to help other teammates who are low on shields. Saved meh more than once on occasion!
Escorts are crazy. Super high turn radius AND insane damage but squishy. I feel this is fitting fairly well with how the class works.
As for cruisers, meh. I'm in a light cruiser and the painfully-slow turn speed is terrible unless I'm using 'Evasive Maneuvers' about once every 1.5 minutes.
I believe cruisers could have a cruiser-specific weapon type that focuses on AoE damage. It would hit multiple targets and possibly apply a light DoT for continual damage in addition to the other effects that the energy type would give.
Perhaps restrict the best explosives/torpedoes/etc to cruisers? Make them focused on the big AoE burst while the escorts focus on burst single-target damage?
Why Season 7 is better than you realize
Raise Refining Cap for Gold/Lifetime!
1. A passive Threat generation bonus.
2. Harder PvE (endgame) content.
3. A smarter playerbase.
1&2 are all in PWE's hands, I'll keep trying to help with 3, as unlikely as it is to happen
Maybe an example will help, to show where many have a too immediate mentallity:
Consider 2 setups fighting a Tactical Cube:
A) Great Escort, good Cruiser.
Now, which of those setups has the best DPS? No, it's not B.
See, in setup B, both Escorts either blow up sometimes or they have to retreat or they're fighting from a safe distance where they take much less damage (but deal much less as well) whereas in setup A, the Cruiser tanks, allowing the Escort to stay point-blank to the target with no fear of destruction and that difference, on top of the Cruiser's own DPS, is what makes setup A more damaging.
Tanks are already beneficial. Not mandatory, but beneficial.
Problem is:
- Most Cruiser pilots don't even want to tank, they seem to just want a super-ship with an Escort's firepower AND massive durability. Pure munchkin mentallity.
- Most Escort pilots don't realise when someone else is tanking and they can unleash at point-blank.
I can tank a Gate or Tac Cube on the Bortas from 100% to 0% and the Escorts are still zipping around, wasting a lot of DPS.
Would I still be tanking if they didn't? Maybe, maybe not, but at least I'd be challenged: with maxed Threat Control, it's really trivial to hold Threat at present.
Even as an escort, I'd like to hit the stance toggle, lose half HP, and Go Down Fighting, while drawing fire from someone else who's really about to go down. In PVP that stance would be active all the time.
Its very useful... just not all the damn time! Tanking would be more common if we had a choice to when we want to Draw Fire.
Give us a Ens Tac slot ability for Draw Fire, and remove that from our ground skills... Tacs can tank in space, not on the ground!!
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Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
The punch of a DBB with the arc of a beam array.
Its to OP a design for the HBA. It negates both standard and DB arrays at one time.
Better designs for a unrestricted Heavy Beam Array have been given.
R.I.P
Torps should be far more viable an option for the big boats, and not with a 2500 zen price tag.
Galaxy variant cstore ships need to be on par with the Oddy cstore ships.
Don't nerf escorts or sci ships, just try to find creative ways to make big boats more useful, and I say this as a guy who has been in elite stfs with 4 other cruisers, as well as flying an escort with 4 other escorts. The difference is night and day, and not the fault of the escort ship, but the design of the cruiser.
No. No. Just... NO. There is no justification for this. Anywhere. The Odyssey is supposed to be the superior ship. Why would you want to insult it by doing this? I agree the Galaxy is underpowered, but news flash, it's not the only cruiser out there. This is not a Galaxy thread. You want to bmw about cryptic insulting that particular ship, then go make a new thread. Just as I don't want this to turn into a cruiser vs escort thread, I am just as against it becoming another pointless Galaxy thread.
Don't take this the wrong way, but that's an outdated, overused, killed many times over from usage design. And no way in hell would I ever support a Galaxy being as powerful as an Odyssey. Ever.
-.-
*rage over*
Just a thought that will likely be ignored
i still can't see anything that nerfed directly or indirectly how cruisers performed before season 6. that was also discussed in a thread few month ago, and nothing of substance was found there as i recall. So yeah, undo all changes done to the cruiser during season 6...won't change anything significant.
as i said before...most cruiser complains are about the galaxy r, and that ship needs some change.
most other cruisers just perform as they should, atleast the 3 i used lately do. (assault cruiser, starcruiser, oddy starcruiser)
So why does Excelsior insult the Galaxy then ?
I remember having that discussion and I'm not sure if it was cruisers, it may be the NPCs getting better resistances (Low level sustained damage would suffer but burst is generally so high that it doesn't matter), however something definitely changed even if it wasn't with cruisers, if my jack of all trades Excelsior didn't fall flat on it's face with season 6 I wouldn't have the build I do now so going back a little, seeing what made such builds fail dismally and reversing that would go some way to solving that.
I agree that the Galaxy could do with a few changes, playing with BOFFs, a nicer turn rate... that sort of thing, although the Galaxy variants are very eng heavy I think it's to compensate for the lack of tanking the tac captain brings so that they can stay in a fight and use the tac career skills to do damage in large quantities and ok tht doesn't sit well with engineers and there should be an element of customisation for all the ships (perhaps a uni BOFF on all ships) so that you can better suit it to the captain.
Thier friendship fell apart and grew distant, thanks to the incident, and Excelsior has never forgiven Galaxy.......
R.I.P
When I run the tac Oddy I use TS 1 and 2 and the 180 degree with 7 beams and i never stop broadsiding while throwing out torpedoes every 15 seconds...
Found it very effective?
That's one problem with Threat Control. The other is that it's a damned expensive skill and it's sitting there competing for attention with other, much more attractive skills. I personally feel that it should be swapped with Attack Patterns on the skill tree. At 1000 skill points per level it would be much less of a sacrifice to skill into and Attack Patterns is actually very, very cheap considering how powerful the skills it buffs are.
What's your turning radius like? I find that it's easy enough to boost turn rate on a cruiser, but most of the time thanks to inertia ratings I find that it takes me something like 2.5-4 km to make that turn when they have really low base turn rates.
Pretty big tbh, but if I flew it all the time inertia would be something i'd fly around: throttling back to make a sharp turn, that kind of thing. I'd also swap the monotanium console for another neutronium for 4 in total: aux to dampeners gives a kinetic resist bonus.
It kind of worked. Pretty niche though. Best thing is, it'd leave you free to chain ep power to X as well, I believe.
Personally, I thi nk cruisers are fine, right up to when you hit VA. Then you start end game stuff and realise that currently escorts are fairly solid and kick out a shed load more damage. Dunno if any ones suggested this before, but how about cruisers having some form of innate power drain resistance, but keep everything else the same?
Not trying to start any cruiser vs escort shenanigans.
2500 zen for 1 torp, and only one damage type at that. that's not very fair to cruiser players in my opinion. As too how effective, you have to consider how many skills and consoles your sacrifing for that one quantum torpedo.
LOL and the Excelsior should be be retired. People want to fly their favorite ships, not have players like you dictate what should be the best at endgame.
Many love the old TOS connie but such a ship would be severly outmatched by a modern vessel.
R.I.P
I've heard you lamenting how jack of all trades cruisers are worthless now, but you also said that very recently someone had finally convinced you to shift your power (to weapons if memory serves). So I have to ask just WHAT this jack of all trades cruiser you can't use anymore was? It didn't have all power to weapons or shields from what I can gather, so it was neither good at DPS nor tanking.
Have you considered that this jack of all trades cruiser may in fact have never been useful at all? That whatever changes you keep wanting to roll back did in fact do nothing more than bring said uselessness to light better than before?
I'm really trying to understand how this jack of all trades cruiser you keep bringing up actually worked. My only cruiser experience is post S6, so I'm not sure how a jack of all trades cruiser could have ever worked before, since I can't seem to find what the big changes to cruisers were. What's more, since I build my cruisers with an eye towards DPS and "just enough" tankiness to barely hang on while tanking a gate and a tac cube I can't imagine how anything else would've worked as an useful build for PvE? I mean.. you do damage and you tank, throw in some debuffs and that's what I think cruisers are meant to be, and they work AMAZINGLY well at it.
2 torps (same type)
TT1, HY2, FAW3
EPtW1, RSP, EPtS, EWP
ET1, aux2sif1
EPtA1
ST1, JS2
Consoles:
borg, 2x neut, 1 mono
2x field gen
3x tet consoles
(Written at 01:00 so I will clarify later if requested)
the above is the "Jack of all trades cruiser build I was using pre S6
well jam sensors is simply TRIBBLE...only way for cruiser is HE and TSS. Aux to sif 1 is too low. get aux2sif3.
i suggest: TT1, delta1 or beta1, faw3 or TT1, spread 2, faw3
ET1, RSP, EWP1, aux2sif3
EptW1, EPtS2
EPtS1 or EPtW1(situational)
HE1, TSS2
use 7 beams and only one torp tube front.
get 2 DOFFs that increase powerlevels on Emergency power to x and 1 or 2 that decrease the cooldown.
run atleast 100 power on weapon , so that when you hit EPtW it goes over the 125. it will counter the drain even if it is over 125.
leave engine power at absolute minimum, raise shield above 50...rest in aux.
now you have 3 support heals (if you get a ExS instead of EWP, you have 4) if you are under fire you can rotate EPtS constantly...should also proc your doffs to boost HE1, TSS2 and aux to sif for further powerfull heals that you can share with others.
tbh i would actually rather play an excelsior with 3 DBB front and 4 turrets back and BO3, but thats personal preference. and rotating 2x EPtW1.
For a "jack of all trades" build any oddy is better, even the free one.
But as stated multiple times that used to be quite effective and outperformed some pug escorts at the time.
Where did this come from?
I am not dictating to other players what should be best endgame. I don't have to. The game does that already. And I agree, the Excelsior should be retired, but since it's so popular, it was put into game. And it's actually a very nasty little ship. I had one go head to head with my Tac Oddy and it was able to hold it's own. It never went through my shields, but it survived very well.
As for your other statement about flying your fave ship, by all means please do. I certainly won't stop you. But I won't support everyone having their favorite ship be the most powerful. I already said that yes, the Galaxy is underpowered. I have said it many times over many threads. I agree that for such an iconic ship, it got the short end of the stick, but they gave us alternatives that are very powerful.
I mean, what is the Regent? Just a pretty skin? Well other than that, it's also a very powerful cruiser. It's one of the four purely tactical cruisers. That includes the Assault Cruiser, Mirror Universe Assault Cruiser, Regent Class Cruiser, and Tactical Odyssey Cruiser. You want a cruiser that can deal damage, use one of those four.
If you want a cruiser that will never die and can tank to kingdom come, use a Star Cruiser, Mirror Star Cruiser, Fleet Star Cruiser, Galaxy-R, Science and Operations Odysseys. But don't expect them to be able to deal tons of damage. At least not the way the others listed above can.
As for ships I don't honestly know how to classify, well those include the Galor and Excelsior, since those two ships are nimble little buggers that can deal damage and tank, but not as well as the others in either respect simply due to design (I may be wrong here, but don't blast me too hard plox, the Borg do it enough already). And the D'kora? I still am having trouble figuring out what that ship is XD.
That being said, in answer to your comment above, if your favorite ship doesn't cut it quite like you want it to, there are alternatives. They may not be your favorite ship, but at least they exist. Hell, I was dubious about the Odyssey when I first saw it, and was still quite fond of my Sovereign, but I gave it a chance, and now I love it. It may not be that pretty, but it grows on you, and eventually you get used to it, then start to like it, and now like me, really like it.
Lets talk about popular for a minute.
How many tv show episodes and or movies has the ODDY been in?
Now compare that number, to say, the Galaxy or Soveriegn.
Simple truth, people are attracted to STO are most likely fans of the tv shows and films. The Galaxy Enterprise and the Sovereign Enterprise were just as much a staring character as Jean Luc Picard and Data.
Look around, how much of STO's modelling is based off TNG/DS9/Voyager. 50%, 75%, 99% of the game features content that looks and feels like those shows in my opinion. Yet the those iconic ships, including the Voyager, are obsolete by vessels with little or no tv/movie time.
One of the most powerful ships in the game isn't even a Federation or Klingon vessel, it's a bug! I have nothing personal against the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, but it's small beans in the big scheme of Star Trek.
Now I think they did an amazing job designing the Oddy. It fits into the Star Trek universe well. But I prolly will never see it on the big screen. I am fortunate enough to have seen many Enterprises, including the D and the E on the silverscreen. They are, for lack of a better term, moviestars. They deserve more respect than STO gives them. Without them, there would be no STO period!
...
I think I stated quite a few times that I am saddened by the fact that so many iconic ships got shafted. I don't really know the purpose of your post, and why you quoted mine in making it.
And I agree with a lot of what you said, but I am just going to swallow my pride and go with what the game gives me. Regardless of personal feeling (except in the case of the Excelsior. There isn't enough zen in the world to make me fly that thing).
This ship won't win a turning battle with an escort, but it can be a real Borg buster (high dps) and tank at the same time. It is a cross between a cruiser and escort. It has a base hull of 39k and can mount DHC!
Here is my build:
(4) Polarized Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons
(3) Disruptor turrets
(1) Tricobalt Mine launcher
Omega Force Deflector & Shield, Borg Engine
(2) RCS Consoles, (1) Armor of various flavors, (1) Ferengi Battle Module
Assimlated Module, Field Generator, Shield Regenerator
(3) Induction Coils
Boff Layout:
EPS1, EPS2, AuxtSt2, EWP2
EPE1, DEM1
TSS1, HE2
TT1, CSV1, CSV2
TT1
This ship pulls aggro all the time and can handle it for the most part. It is fun to fire the EMP, then switch to Battle Mode and hit the target with Polaron, Disruptor, and Tetyron Glider procs/buff, then drop the Tricobalt mine against a bare hull :cool:. The swarm missles are there in reserve too, but long cool down. You can also do a decent amount of heals for your team with it.
I think many under-estimate the capabilities of this ship. I am not sure if this fits the theme of your thread, but I thought I would share.
This is my main ship now for the above, plus I have access to the Exchange, Bank, and Mail from my bridge.
Thx
Locutus
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/