That's a patently idiotic comment. They reduce your ability to take damage, so they will then reduce the damage? This hasn't been the pattern in a year straight. They are constantly making the borg weapons stronger every update.....
Fear not! With the new up and coming rep system you can buff your defenses! You just need to get the highest level passive powers! How thoughtful of them right?
This is probably why they are really looking to nerf healing, to make room for the rep system's defensive passives.
many people look at the cap only, however the borg shield is not good as the maco/omega shield for others different reasons: while the borg shield has a good regeneration rate and (only) 15% plasma resistance, the maco shield has 5% Absorption, 5% Bleedthrough, 20% plasma resistance and 10% all energy resistance. The omega shield has 10% Bleedthrough like the borg one, but also a +5% plasma resistance more and a regeneration rate very similar to the borg shield.
If you look at the bog shield only then it is not as good as the maco/omega one.
The real advantage of the borg set is the 3-piece proc (multi regenerative shield array), and you can get it without using the borg shield. By removing the borg console from the set, you have to use also the shield (and may be the borg set will become usefull).
What you say is true, but you were missing my point. You have different playstyle with reg shields than with other shields. People just are too used to high cap / absorb shields, and not the reg playstyle, hence every reg shield is TRIBBLE in their eyes.
The borg shield even in its current form, is one of the best - if not best - regenerative shield out there. Also the values of the borg shields reflect Mk X. So mk XII would have higher stats - even higher regen.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
What you say is true, but you were missing my point. You have different playstyle with reg shields than with other shields. People just are too used to high cap / absorb shields, and not the reg playstyle, hence every reg shield is TRIBBLE in their eyes.
The borg shield even in its current form, is one of the best - if not best - regenerative shield out there. Also the values of the borg shields reflect Mk X. So mk XII would have higher stats - even higher regen.
I know playstyle is important, but often is not so much important... often you have to adjust your playstyle based on your ship, and others constrains (es. shared cooldown).
Based on several tests, a rigenerative shield is good only if you can expect to survive for a long time (at least one minute or more). This can be true in most pve, rarely in pvp.
Moreover, an escort usually have advantage in using shield with a greater cap because if you use an escort for sure you have slots to use tactical team every 15 seconds. Sci vessels usually have better shield stats, but only one lt tactical boff... using one TT on a sci vessel can be a waste, you need some dps... passive defense isn't enough.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
I know playstyle is important, but often is not so much important... often you have to adjust your playstyle based on your ship, and others constrains (es. shared cooldown).
Based on several tests, a rigenerative shield is good only if you can expect to survive for a long time (at least one minute or more). This can be true in most pve, rarely in pvp.
Moreover, an escort usually have advantage in using shield with a greater cap because if you use an escort for sure you have slots to use tactical team every 15 seconds. Sci vessels usually have better shield stats, but only one lt tactical boff... using one TT on a sci vessel can be a waste, you need some dps... passive defense isn't enough.
What does this have to do with the fact that borg shields are completely fine REGENERATIVE shields ? People do not like them, well that's problem of them, not the shields.
What is true however, is that the shield heal proc is a waste on regenerative shields. And would be better off reworked into dmg reduction proc.
And btw, if you do not expect to survive long time in pvp, you do it wrong
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The biggest issue is you are going to be one shot constantly with the borg shield in elite STFs, the thing becomes unusable; it is unlikely they will get fixed because the devs have almost no understanding of that.
They don't play this game. They don't even acknowledge the PROBLEMS we are facing. My fleet battlecruier, with cruiser shields and hull, with field generators and KHG mk XII shields, still is 1-shotted instantly through full shields and hull multiple times a day...
...They're finding solutions to problems that don't exist, and hosing systems that aren't broken in the process. Further they ignore the massive game breaking problems that run rampant every day. In CSE yesterday I was 1-shotted by cube defending negh'vars firing ISO charges, on EVERY cube. 3 of us died instantly every time they spawned. No delay, no pause, before they even finished decloaking we had instant kill iso charges wiping out the team. EVERY TIME...
..Damage doesn't register properly, even when it's less than lethal. Damage to hull bypasses sheilds no matter what shield level. Then hull KEEPS dropping after the impact stops, and you cannot heal it. HE and ET and A2SIF failed to stop my hull drop even though I fired them all off in sequence, and I still died (no plasma, no incoming damage, just kept dying). It continues to drop (with no plasma) well after the fact. Polarize hull doesn't always stop tractor beams.
STFs are woefully frakked to hell and gone. They are broken systematically from the ground up. And yet they are making things worse by handicapping your options re: set bonuses?
Closing a loophole my TRIBBLE. They're just so out of freaking touch they have no clue what they're doing.
I'm all for rebalancing the drop rates and tables, etc. That's not what this is. This is a sweeping change meant to reduce dilithium to make the game a far worse grind than it is, and to further artificially make everything harder not by requiring skill but simply by making you all die in 1 shot every time you see an enemy.
No, don't blame the setup. It's not unique to that ship or that character. All my chars have set shields and all of them get popped through shields instantly. The ISO charge is such bullcrap it needs instant removal from the game. There's no reason to ever EVER have put this on NPC ships. EVER. Period. Let alone put it on ships and jack the damage THROUGH THE ROOF to the point of 1-shotting oddy cruisers with maco XII shields. Yes, that's happened to my fed as well.
...You can check yourself in combatlog stats tracker. It tells you what the enemy damage was to you. It tells you what the max crit was. You can then go into each and every hit if you like. It's absurd, the way this is programmed.
Some good points... from all. And to be honest what we are all discussing is a basic truth.
The dev's do not play their own game and have no clue of its true mechanics.
This was painfully obvious when they got their normal characters and pvp random groups on tribble during an event...
Some decisions, while on the surface were good calls on a spreadsheet, in true game mechanics on the live server were terrible and even catastrophic changes.
The issue with most of this is poor Q/A, which honestly I do not fault the dev's they are doing their job team, they are Developers and they are cranking out a good amount of things.
Such Q/A issues are the fault however of Management, the blame clearly lies on them...
to either control the flow in a timely manner to ensure product is reaching their clients on deadlines set
or to oversee proper control/quality procedures of their product. Yes its a MMO, things will break, but if they did, those changes would be instantly removed until that could be applied correctly without the break.
Now as far as space combat needing a change....
...more like a major overhaul. Question is, Should we? I am sure the devs have the expertise to do it, but the question still remains... should we?
Consider this, simply scrapping the entire system is a logistical nightmare, might as well scrap the game. In truth we are only talking about a few simple things wrong that need to be ironed out.
While we may not agree to the "how" or "what" they are ironing out, I sit back and watch where they are going. A few things I see happening are the following...
Direction
Purpose
No, I did not say Q/A, that is still a work in progress, and THAT needs to be overhauled badly. Still just recently we are starting to see work coming forth that is leading the combat system to a vision.
Personally I would like to see the end result or even a vision of where it is going before making a comment.
We can all agree sometimes the "execution" has been... ummm lacking.
By their own admission they don't track who's working on what. They can't even get a simple changelog for each patch. They have no cohesion and no accountability. They are not working towards a vision any more than 5 people editing different 25-minute segments of a film, only none of them talks to each other. There is no direction.
As for their purpose? Painfully clear. Stop actually working on the game and add restrictions to slow anybody down because they stopped working on the game. In the absence of content they have produced a truly mind-numbing grinder, and it's getting worse with the new STF change. This change does NOT just make things more fair. It makes things cost BUTTLOADS of dilithium, and reduces how much dilithium you get.
It's nothing but a grind. They want you to pay real world money on zen, to convert to dilithium, to get anything done. The game is no longer F2P, in their eyes. Look at the idiotic starbase projects all requiring 200k dilithium for nothing in return. Look at everything that's been happening lately.
I see no direction at all, but a whole lot of purpose. Deadly, sinister purpose. It's really hurting the game. If S7 releases as described I and many others will simply stop playing. Doffs cost 1000 dil? I stop doing doffs. STF rewards are actually part of a grind you have to pay loads for? I stop doing STFs. It's not a reward if it costs you 8000-32000 dilithium PER ITEM.
The game gets driven into the ground? Folks leave that game en masse.
The upcoming changes to the Borg set seem like a bad idea to me. There are several reasons:
1.) It does remove creativity by removing choice.
While it has been pointed out that we'll just have to become more "creative" it is hard to do this when they are forcing players to effectively choose certain "sets". ( Which are in hindsight, massively overpowered; how many people actually consider using non-set shields, engine, deflectors? I know I don't since so many sets can be obtained through missions, etc and they are just superior stat-wise and because of set-bonuses )
2.) Regarding the Borg set not being used as it was supposed to...
This is, to be blunt, either a massive lie or an incredible oversight on the Developers part. Considering how abilities come into effect as you have more of the set and it becomes obvious to see that a 4-piece anomaly set would lead to mix-and-matching. ( As mentioned earlier though, this may be more oversight arising from them not playing their own game and hence not knowing its' uses )
3.) Proper balancing should never require the sledgehammer approach
What I mean by this is that balancing is normally a delicate process that requires time and lots of small changes before you get things right. Unless I've been missing out on months of them tampering with the stats of the Borg set, then this choice seems rather uncalled for.
As a PvE player, this is how I see things.
Even though I don't normally use the Omega set either, their completely removal of it as an option is also rather sad tbh.
As a side note, anybody hear about whats going to happen to Terradome? ( Only tried it once honestly, but it seems to be quite far left-behind in all the updates )
Way off topic: If they slowed character leveling but introduced more pre-endgame content would that make the grinding feel less like grinding? ie: Takes 40 hours of gameplay roughly to get from lieutenant to lt.cmdr but there are over 5 different dailies/special zones that can be run/explored with more added in at each rank. Unrealistic to achieve ( programming constraints/server sizes/etc ) but it could help alleviate endgame boredom by providing more to do. All supposing that the zones level with you.
They don't play this game. They don't even acknowledge the PROBLEMS we are facing. My fleet battlecruier, with cruiser shields and hull, with field generators and KHG mk XII shields, still is 1-shotted instantly through full shields and hull multiple times a day. It's bullcrap. The devs are so disassociated with this game they shouldn't be programming for it anymore.
I too feel the Devs are totally divorced of how the game is actually played. Perhaps we're wrong, but Dstahl's recent comments that the upcoming changes are completely the dev team's doing leaves me no choice but to conclude this.
TBH, I'd rather Brandon (the community rep) was involved in the game design process, I hear he actually PLAYS... and quite a bit too. I'd miss his unfailingly professional and cheerful demeanor in the forums but I really think we'd all benefit more from someone that knows what players face every time they log in being involved in the design process.
The upcoming changes to the Borg set seem like a bad idea to me. There are several reasons:
1.) It does remove creativity by removing choice.
While it has been pointed out that we'll just have to become more "creative" it is hard to do this when they are forcing players to effectively choose certain "sets". ( Which are in hindsight, massively overpowered; how many people actually consider using non-set shields, engine, deflectors? I know I don't since so many sets can be obtained through missions, etc and they are just superior stat-wise and because of set-bonuses )
You mean the choice removed by everyone using 2/3pc borg + a high cap shield because it's comparatively overpowered?
2.) Regarding the Borg set not being used as it was supposed to...
This is, to be blunt, either a massive lie or an incredible oversight on the Developers part. Considering how abilities come into effect as you have more of the set and it becomes obvious to see that a 4-piece anomaly set would lead to mix-and-matching. ( As mentioned earlier though, this may be more oversight arising from them not playing their own game and hence not knowing its' uses )
The Borg set (and it's bonuses) predated the high cap shields which were later released that caused the problem. This isn't even a relevant complaint anyway, it's basically "well, you made the mistake of letting us be OP... so we should continue being OP despite game balance". That's just nonsense logic.
3.) Proper balancing should never require the sledgehammer approach
What I mean by this is that balancing is normally a delicate process that requires time and lots of small changes before you get things right. Unless I've been missing out on months of them tampering with the stats of the Borg set, then this choice seems rather uncalled for.
It's not that big of a deal. Use a different set. This game isn't hard enough for it to matter, plus it effects everyone equally.
They don't play this game. They don't even acknowledge the PROBLEMS we are facing. My fleet battlecruier, with cruiser shields and hull, with field generators and KHG mk XII shields, still is 1-shotted instantly through full shields and hull multiple times a day. It's bullcrap. The devs are so disassociated with this game they shouldn't be programming for it anymore.
Dare I say they all ought to be canned and people that care ought to be hired instead?
No, it's not. My Fleet Vorcha (I'm a TAC captain) w/ the same setup doesn't drop below half-hull (from full) even when eating a High yield Plasma torp. If you managed to get dropped in a single shot, it was because your shields were down, or you don't have any resistance skills/talents/consoles running. That's your fault, you should always have atleast a EPtS running, along w/ atleast one Neutronium.
No, it's not. My Fleet Vorcha (I'm a TAC captain) w/ the same setup doesn't drop below half-hull (from full) even when eating a High yield Plasma torp. If you managed to get dropped in a single shot, it was because your shields were down, or you don't have any resistance skills/talents/consoles running. That's your fault, you should always have atleast a EPtS running, along w/ atleast one Neutronium.
+1
9 out of 10 complains about being "one shotted" is simply wrong setup or playwise (EPTS not active all time, shield power Level not above 100, being stationary target etc.)
My tac in Fleetscourge (Escort!) usually survives Isocharge, if being hit as first or second target. Only when I am the third in the row or getting "multicharged" by the last wave negs in CSE I die.
But the solution there is quite simple: get behind the negs when they spawn. Isocharge is 90? Front only, so no big deal for escorts to stay out of range.
In general the downgrade of the Borgset is a good decision. It is possible in KSE to tank donatras scimitar with an Escort - not by avoiding her frontal arc (as it is intented) but by simply showing her you Front, firing DHCS and flying backwards. This issomething that should not be.
But the mechanism to do it isn't the most elegant way. IMO the "tankiness" of Escorts does not come from the specific set(s). The matter is that escorts can easily avoid most incoming fire. So the passive "evasive" boni should be a bit smaller for escorts.
2.) Regarding the Borg set not being used as it was supposed to...
This is, to be blunt, either a massive lie or an incredible oversight on the Developers part. Considering how abilities come into effect as you have more of the set and it becomes obvious to see that a 4-piece anomaly set would lead to mix-and-matching. ( As mentioned earlier though, this may be more oversight arising from them not playing their own game and hence not knowing its' uses )
The real problem is that the borg set "used as it was supposed to" is completely useless.
Yesterday I tested it on my wells. usually I use the omega shield and the 3 pieces borg set (deflector, engine and console).
well using the borg set "as it was supposed to" (shield, engine, deflector and console) my ship had more than 2000 shield hp less for each face, the shiedl regeneration rate was nearly the same and (of course) I had 5% lless resistance to plasma damage.
yes, I gained the assimilated tractor beam and a +5 power to shields, but it was absolutelly nothing compared to 2000 hp more for each shield's face... since I use TT having 2000 hp more for face is like having a second shield.
If pw will only remove the console from the set without seriously improving the borg shield (a better cap or a much better regeneration rate) I think no one will use the shield or the "engine + deflector" set.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Comments
Fear not! With the new up and coming rep system you can buff your defenses! You just need to get the highest level passive powers! How thoughtful of them right?
This is probably why they are really looking to nerf healing, to make room for the rep system's defensive passives.
What you say is true, but you were missing my point. You have different playstyle with reg shields than with other shields. People just are too used to high cap / absorb shields, and not the reg playstyle, hence every reg shield is TRIBBLE in their eyes.
The borg shield even in its current form, is one of the best - if not best - regenerative shield out there. Also the values of the borg shields reflect Mk X. So mk XII would have higher stats - even higher regen.
I know playstyle is important, but often is not so much important... often you have to adjust your playstyle based on your ship, and others constrains (es. shared cooldown).
Based on several tests, a rigenerative shield is good only if you can expect to survive for a long time (at least one minute or more). This can be true in most pve, rarely in pvp.
Moreover, an escort usually have advantage in using shield with a greater cap because if you use an escort for sure you have slots to use tactical team every 15 seconds. Sci vessels usually have better shield stats, but only one lt tactical boff... using one TT on a sci vessel can be a waste, you need some dps... passive defense isn't enough.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
What does this have to do with the fact that borg shields are completely fine REGENERATIVE shields ? People do not like them, well that's problem of them, not the shields.
What is true however, is that the shield heal proc is a waste on regenerative shields. And would be better off reworked into dmg reduction proc.
And btw, if you do not expect to survive long time in pvp, you do it wrong
Some good points... from all. And to be honest what we are all discussing is a basic truth.
- The dev's do not play their own game and have no clue of its true mechanics.
This was painfully obvious when they got their normal characters and pvp random groups on tribble during an event...- Some decisions, while on the surface were good calls on a spreadsheet, in true game mechanics on the live server were terrible and even catastrophic changes.
The issue with most of this is poor Q/A, which honestly I do not fault the dev's they are doing their job team, they are Developers and they are cranking out a good amount of things.Such Q/A issues are the fault however of Management, the blame clearly lies on them...
Now as far as space combat needing a change....
...more like a major overhaul. Question is, Should we? I am sure the devs have the expertise to do it, but the question still remains... should we?
Consider this, simply scrapping the entire system is a logistical nightmare, might as well scrap the game. In truth we are only talking about a few simple things wrong that need to be ironed out.
While we may not agree to the "how" or "what" they are ironing out, I sit back and watch where they are going. A few things I see happening are the following...
No, I did not say Q/A, that is still a work in progress, and THAT needs to be overhauled badly. Still just recently we are starting to see work coming forth that is leading the combat system to a vision.
Personally I would like to see the end result or even a vision of where it is going before making a comment.
We can all agree sometimes the "execution" has been... ummm lacking.
As for their purpose? Painfully clear. Stop actually working on the game and add restrictions to slow anybody down because they stopped working on the game. In the absence of content they have produced a truly mind-numbing grinder, and it's getting worse with the new STF change. This change does NOT just make things more fair. It makes things cost BUTTLOADS of dilithium, and reduces how much dilithium you get.
It's nothing but a grind. They want you to pay real world money on zen, to convert to dilithium, to get anything done. The game is no longer F2P, in their eyes. Look at the idiotic starbase projects all requiring 200k dilithium for nothing in return. Look at everything that's been happening lately.
I see no direction at all, but a whole lot of purpose. Deadly, sinister purpose. It's really hurting the game. If S7 releases as described I and many others will simply stop playing. Doffs cost 1000 dil? I stop doing doffs. STF rewards are actually part of a grind you have to pay loads for? I stop doing STFs. It's not a reward if it costs you 8000-32000 dilithium PER ITEM.
The game gets driven into the ground? Folks leave that game en masse.
1.) It does remove creativity by removing choice.
While it has been pointed out that we'll just have to become more "creative" it is hard to do this when they are forcing players to effectively choose certain "sets". ( Which are in hindsight, massively overpowered; how many people actually consider using non-set shields, engine, deflectors? I know I don't since so many sets can be obtained through missions, etc and they are just superior stat-wise and because of set-bonuses )
2.) Regarding the Borg set not being used as it was supposed to...
This is, to be blunt, either a massive lie or an incredible oversight on the Developers part. Considering how abilities come into effect as you have more of the set and it becomes obvious to see that a 4-piece anomaly set would lead to mix-and-matching. ( As mentioned earlier though, this may be more oversight arising from them not playing their own game and hence not knowing its' uses )
3.) Proper balancing should never require the sledgehammer approach
What I mean by this is that balancing is normally a delicate process that requires time and lots of small changes before you get things right. Unless I've been missing out on months of them tampering with the stats of the Borg set, then this choice seems rather uncalled for.
As a PvE player, this is how I see things.
Even though I don't normally use the Omega set either, their completely removal of it as an option is also rather sad tbh.
As a side note, anybody hear about whats going to happen to Terradome? ( Only tried it once honestly, but it seems to be quite far left-behind in all the updates
Way off topic: If they slowed character leveling but introduced more pre-endgame content would that make the grinding feel less like grinding? ie: Takes 40 hours of gameplay roughly to get from lieutenant to lt.cmdr but there are over 5 different dailies/special zones that can be run/explored with more added in at each rank. Unrealistic to achieve ( programming constraints/server sizes/etc ) but it could help alleviate endgame boredom by providing more to do. All supposing that the zones level with you.
I too feel the Devs are totally divorced of how the game is actually played. Perhaps we're wrong, but Dstahl's recent comments that the upcoming changes are completely the dev team's doing leaves me no choice but to conclude this.
TBH, I'd rather Brandon (the community rep) was involved in the game design process, I hear he actually PLAYS... and quite a bit too. I'd miss his unfailingly professional and cheerful demeanor in the forums but I really think we'd all benefit more from someone that knows what players face every time they log in being involved in the design process.
You mean the choice removed by everyone using 2/3pc borg + a high cap shield because it's comparatively overpowered?
The Borg set (and it's bonuses) predated the high cap shields which were later released that caused the problem. This isn't even a relevant complaint anyway, it's basically "well, you made the mistake of letting us be OP... so we should continue being OP despite game balance". That's just nonsense logic.
It's not that big of a deal. Use a different set. This game isn't hard enough for it to matter, plus it effects everyone equally.
No, it's not. My Fleet Vorcha (I'm a TAC captain) w/ the same setup doesn't drop below half-hull (from full) even when eating a High yield Plasma torp. If you managed to get dropped in a single shot, it was because your shields were down, or you don't have any resistance skills/talents/consoles running. That's your fault, you should always have atleast a EPtS running, along w/ atleast one Neutronium.
9 out of 10 complains about being "one shotted" is simply wrong setup or playwise (EPTS not active all time, shield power Level not above 100, being stationary target etc.)
My tac in Fleetscourge (Escort!) usually survives Isocharge, if being hit as first or second target. Only when I am the third in the row or getting "multicharged" by the last wave negs in CSE I die.
But the solution there is quite simple: get behind the negs when they spawn. Isocharge is 90? Front only, so no big deal for escorts to stay out of range.
In general the downgrade of the Borgset is a good decision. It is possible in KSE to tank donatras scimitar with an Escort - not by avoiding her frontal arc (as it is intented) but by simply showing her you Front, firing DHCS and flying backwards. This issomething that should not be.
But the mechanism to do it isn't the most elegant way. IMO the "tankiness" of Escorts does not come from the specific set(s). The matter is that escorts can easily avoid most incoming fire. So the passive "evasive" boni should be a bit smaller for escorts.
The real problem is that the borg set "used as it was supposed to" is completely useless.
Yesterday I tested it on my wells. usually I use the omega shield and the 3 pieces borg set (deflector, engine and console).
well using the borg set "as it was supposed to" (shield, engine, deflector and console) my ship had more than 2000 shield hp less for each face, the shiedl regeneration rate was nearly the same and (of course) I had 5% lless resistance to plasma damage.
yes, I gained the assimilated tractor beam and a +5 power to shields, but it was absolutelly nothing compared to 2000 hp more for each shield's face... since I use TT having 2000 hp more for face is like having a second shield.
If pw will only remove the console from the set without seriously improving the borg shield (a better cap or a much better regeneration rate) I think no one will use the shield or the "engine + deflector" set.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves