Yeah i have to agree there. The extra op loot or standard drops at the end were part of the whole end game setup. I honestly dont know how your ment to get better xii and xi equipment in the game other than warzones and starbase 24. Would be SUPER lame to see it gone from stf's. Granted it was not always good. But that extra gem at the end ive come across from time to time has made the grinds seem far less painfull.
Getting the Mk XII sets should still be an accomplishment worth being able to brag about. Even if it's a lot more attainable now for more people, you have to at least have some experience with our most difficult end-game content.
I have the gear , have completed more than a 1000 stf's , 700 before i got my first tech drop of anykind . I am stf out .. Now i have to do it all again . and i don't know what feels worse , the fact that i have put in all this time and spent my money on you guys to feel like you don't give a flying fudge about the folks that supported you thur the really bad times , when the game was really not up to par , lag and all the other issues that we had to endure . or 2 i don't know i just feel betrayed . its like you guys don't really care about the loyals that have been playin since beta .
I really think you have finally found the thing that is gonna have me saying , i need to find a new game .. gratz well done .. sad.. very sad day indeed..
Come on Jeremy!!! You used to be one of us!! I know you know how we all feel about this! You know in your heart this is a big middle finger to those of us who have already invested time into the current STF system who are close to completing all our MACO/Omega/KHG Mk XII sets to be told to start over at tier zero with time-gates and dilithium-gates. Do what you will with the new content and rewards, but for the current STFs and rewards this is completely unacceptable. We had to grind like crazy and to be told that none of that matters and to start over again at zero with more obstacles in the way? Really? What is the big problem with giving us credit to the new store based on accolades or number of STFs completed or how many of the MACO/Omega/KHG Mk XII set pieces we have already? All we ask is that you make it fair!!!
Others have said DS9 will turn into more of a ghost town with the STF store being gone and I agree! This is my number 2 biggest concern that I've seen from logging into the TTS. Removing the STF store will ruin having a nice social hub for end game players to hang out. You have the store there still, I say make use of it! Not everything has to be bought from the UI! You all need to find some use for Commander Roxy and her crew! Don't let them end up being relics of the past.
If things don't change, season 7 or not, this completely sours the game for me.
Ok one other point I forgot. Cryptic have NOT said they will remove the parts you have earnt and so where is the problem is it that you have to work as hard as the rest of us (if you forget the conversion giving you a little help) to get a peice of gear.
Hmm think about it you who are saying its unfair.
You have to do as much as everyone else does to get the same thing only you have the parts you have already got saving you from needing them again.
Where is the problem?
Please explain it to me as I am obviously a MORON.
Let me say it how I see it one lase time.
You have to do as much as me to get something! only once the "store is unlocked by earning it" you dont have to buy what you already have. I on the other hand must get all the pieces. The only differance in Before 57 and after is that we will both know EXACTLY what it takes instead of it being a game of chance.
BUT WHAT YOUR PROPOSING TO DO WONT MAKE IT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT :mad: what your proposing will just cheapen mk 12 khyg/omega/maco and what about people who have missing parts of sets that will have to start all over again ?
Im really starting to wonder whats going on with all these bad/horrible changes and decisions being made. You developers really have lost touch with the core playerbase
I really don't see the issue... so they are missing pieces... they have played how many to date? It hasnt dropped for them yet... so they'll have to run more, how many more noone can actually say... could be 1... or 100... or 1000.... Since its completely random... you never know.
Change the system, they'll have to run more to unlock the piece... BUT, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, you arent stumbling around in the darkness hoping you find the door... you can see it.. it might be a ways down a long hallway... but its there.
No one said you have to start over... purchase your 2 pieces, stick them in the bank and continue playing stf's as you have... focus on the Omega task Force reputation (based on the cost, its not gonna take that much to tier out).
Personally, I am glad LUCK has come out of the equation to obtain MK XII gear... although I do wish it didnt turn into sheer persistance (or bullheadedness). I'd really like to see the top end gear be skill based.
I'm a core player, been here a long time... I like the change.
I just checked and the elite STF's are currently rewarding 3x less marks than they should.
Infected Space Elite is currently awarding 20 Omega Marks without the bonus, on the next push it will award 60 Omega Marks per run.
It will still give 1 elite mark.
This doesn't speak to the OP's question about the loot bag at the end. is it just Marks now and no more random lot? yeah, some of it was lame, but there's also some good stuff in there as well. Are you removing that feature as well?
It's so strange. I play 1 ESTF, get 60 Marks. Then I have to turn in 19 every 2 days. So after 3 turn-ins after 6 days they 57 are converted. Then I can do the next ESTF? If I do more the Marks just pile up...?
It's so strange. I play 1 ESTF, get 60 Marks. Then I have to turn in 19 every 2 days. So after 3 turn-ins after 6 days they 57 are converted. Then I can do the next ESTF? If I do more the Marks just pile up...?
Yes, if you played STFs on a need-to-play basis, you could theoretically do one elite STF every 6 days and have a minimal amount of Omega marks in your bank.
But you would have to find alternate dilithium sources.
So if I were you, I'd play the elite STFs as long as I need dilithium to refine. Perhaps even more for the elite Omega marks for later.
Right now it takes 24 days of maxed refining on a single character to get the 180k dilithium required to max out your reputation in a faction and get the Mk XII sets from Omega Force. 10 days to max out, 14 to get the set. I believe the RSE space sets behave the same, so 24 days there too.
For comparison, the XP assignments we've seen (or heard of) so far all take 40 hours. That's 2 days of refining, and the T5 assignments need 1 day's worth of refining per faction. You can just stockpile it up in the early tiers and keep it up from there, as the game only asks you for 2400 dilithium (1200 per faction) in T1, and is supposed to progress as the game continues. Pretty easy, don't you think?
Let's just hope and pray (or in my case, just hope :P) nobody goes out and changes that, reminding us that all values on Tribble are "subject to change". :mad:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Yes, if you played STFs on a need-to-play basis, you could theoretically do one elite STF every 6 days and have a minimal amount of Omega marks in your bank.
But you would have to find alternate dilithium sources.
So if I were you, I'd play the elite STFs as long as I need dilithium to refine. Perhaps even more for the elite Omega marks for later.
Right now it takes 24 days of maxed refining on a single character to get the 180k dilithium required to max out your reputation in a faction and get the Mk XII sets from Omega Force. 10 days to max out, 14 to get the set. I believe the RSE space sets behave the same, so 24 days there too.
For comparison, the XP assignments we've seen (or heard of) so far all take 40 hours. That's 2 days of refining, and the T5 assignments need 1 day's worth of refining per faction. You can just stockpile it up in the early tiers and keep it up from there, as the game only asks you for 2400 dilithium (1200 per faction) in T1, and is supposed to progress as the game continues. Pretty easy, don't you think?
Let's just hope and pray (or in my case, just hope :P) nobody goes out and changes that, reminding us that all values on Tribble are "subject to change". :mad:
AS someone who rarely plays STFs as-is, I have no problem with that.
Really seems to me the new system is a Feel System and not a true reward system based on accomplishments.
I believe that is the influence of an eastern-world culture.
I suspect in the future we will see more of this "do this - get this reward" kind of thing. I wouldn't be suprised if there was a server-wide removal of loot tables at some point. Meaning enemies no longer drop items at all. Ever.
Everything would be done with dilithium. EC would cease to be a currency (why would they keep it when they dont make money from it) and absolutly everything would be done with dilithium. Then and only then will the change the refining cap.
Not sure if this has been raised before but I'm going to raise it here.
I completed an Infected Space Elite (with optional) only to get Omega Marks and 1 elite mark, what happened to the loot box at the end? I know sometimes it contained junk but sometimes it had a nice weapon or console.
It would be a real shame if this was a permanent change.
I'm also a little worried about what happens to ground STFs after this. Ground STFs are more fun than space, most people don't run them because they are terrible at ground. The problem is they take longer and give the same rewards, so why bother anymore?
Giving people rewards for running one easy elite STF once a week is kinda.. meh. ISE is actually a puggable elite STF, which means anyone can do it. I feel that the system really needs to check the optional accolade before letting you advance, at least you know that someone did them at least once.. and nobody stumbles onto the IGE optional. CGE, KAGE can be done with 4 people, but one bad person in IGE wrecks the optional in an instant.
I believe that is the influence of an eastern-world culture.
I suspect in the future we will see more of this "do this - get this reward" kind of thing. I wouldn't be suprised if there was a server-wide removal of loot tables at some point. Meaning enemies no longer drop items at all. Ever.
Everything would be done with dilithium. EC would cease to be a currency (why would they keep it when they dont make money from it) and absolutly everything would be done with dilithium. Then and only then will the change the refining cap.
While that may sound alarmist, most things "endgame" at this point have had a dilithium cost added to them.
* Reputation system tiers = costs dilithium
* Starbase tiers = costs (massive mountains of) dilithium
* Embassy = costs dilithium
* Crafted gear = costs dilithium
* Fleet gear = costs dilithium after paying dilithium to unlock the tiers to gain access
* STF gear = now costs dilithium, for every item available
Many other items: new ships, hybrid weapons, special sets - either come out of a lockbox, the lobi store or the c-store (primarily T5 ships).
While that may sound alarmist, most things "endgame" at this point have had a dilithium cost added to them.
* Reputation system tiers = costs dilithium
* Starbase tiers = costs (massive mountains of) dilithium
* Embassy = costs dilithium
* Crafted gear = costs dilithium
* Fleet gear = costs dilithium after paying dilithium to unlock the tiers to gain access
* STF gear = now costs dilithium, for every item available
Many other items: new ships, hybrid weapons, special sets - either come out of a lockbox, the lobi store or the c-store (primarily T5 ships).
Were you backing me up there? Seems like it lol. Thanks.
You mention the lockbox / c-store which you could easily argue cost dilithium. The one store I have a real problem with is the Lobi store. Monetaryly (made up word) speaking it is incredibly expensive. It works out at something like $60 for a console that costs 200 Lobi. (200 lobi @ 5 per box = 40 boxes = 5000 zen = about $60)
How do people not have a problem with this?
Sorry drifting off topic. If only there were something more worth saying about these changes...
Edit: Oh and about ur signature, did you see the new embassy thing has a way for you to get a console that increases threat generation? Its SCIENCE though lol. Now you get to choose between that and shield capacity. Nice choice eh?
I'm pretty sure it is permanent, asdfjkadfjkasf. (why the heck would ANYBODY have such a name? )
Where is the proof. From what I have seen in the past it looks like they had to remove it temporarily but will put it back before it goes live. after all folks forget Tribble is a TEST SERVER not every change is going to stay and there is No logical reason money based or otherwise to remove loot so please dont jump to conclusions its like saying "Oh the cstore doesnt work fully on tribble thus they are removing it" iboth you assumption and the example are conclusions jumped to hastely.
Where is the proof. From what I have seen in the past it looks like they had to remove it temporarily but will put it back before it goes live. after all folks forget Tribble is a TEST SERVER not every change is going to stay and there is No logical reason money based or otherwise to remove loot so please dont jump to conclusions its like saying "Oh the cstore doesnt work fully on tribble thus they are removing it" iboth you assumption and the example are conclusions jumped to hastely.
The reason why he is saying this is because they are currently applying the fleet framework to STFs. The fleet missions have no loot bag at the end, and in light of cryptics behavior, it follows that this would be another thing they would take away from us.
Edit: Oh and about ur signature, did you see the new embassy thing has a way for you to get a console that increases threat generation? Its SCIENCE though lol. Now you get to choose between that and shield capacity. Nice choice eh?
I'm waiting to see the actual consoles before I comment on it.
If they do what I think they do, which is that they most likely add threat and nothing else - while bizarrely taking up a sci console slot when threat control is a Tactical skill and also forcing you to sacrifice survivability while you intentionally accept more incoming damage...yeah that's not even remotely worth it and is completely backwards in how a threat control boosting item needs to function.
The reason why he is saying this is because they are currently applying the fleet framework to STFs. The fleet missions have no loot bag at the end, and in light of cryptics behavior, it follows that this would be another thing they would take away from us.
And my point still stands this is all assumption. They may they may not we DONT know and as the saying goes "asumption is the mother of all ****-ups!" and on tyhese forums folks have a astonishing tendancy to take assumption as fact. I have seen folks leave the game over one persons assumption based on a jaded opinion which later turned out not to be true.
What I am trying to say is assumptons are not helping anyone and can harm more then hekp which is why I take a wait and see attitude or give constructive feedback like in this case everyone making it clear that they DONT want loot bags gone as If I where a dev I would read this so far and go "oh another Cryptic is the devil thread" and leave it before concidering it.
Were you backing me up there? Seems like it lol. Thanks.
You mention the lockbox / c-store which you could easily argue cost dilithium. The one store I have a real problem with is the Lobi store. Monetaryly (made up word) speaking it is incredibly expensive. It works out at something like $60 for a console that costs 200 Lobi. (200 lobi @ 5 per box = 40 boxes = 5000 zen = about $60)
How do people not have a problem with this?
Sorry drifting off topic. If only there were something more worth saying about these changes...
Edit: Oh and about ur signature, did you see the new embassy thing has a way for you to get a console that increases threat generation? Its SCIENCE though lol. Now you get to choose between that and shield capacity. Nice choice eh?
Where is the proof. From what I have seen in the past it looks like they had to remove it temporarily but will put it back before it goes live. after all folks forget Tribble is a TEST SERVER not every change is going to stay and there is No logical reason money based or otherwise to remove loot so please dont jump to conclusions its like saying "Oh the cstore doesnt work fully on tribble thus they are removing it" iboth you assumption and the example are conclusions jumped to hastely.
The reason why he is saying this is because they are currently applying the fleet framework to STFs. The fleet missions have no loot bag at the end, and in light of cryptics behavior, it follows that this would be another thing they would take away from us.
That, and I believe I read a post by Borticus that while removing the loot tables, they accidentally removed the associated dilithium. I'll go out to find and quote it.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
The STF reward tables were updated for this push and they contain all the omega marks and elite marks you should get. When they were updated the dilithium was inadvertently removed as a flat reward. They will be back in a release next week.
You can earn dilithium just from the run, as well as from turning in elite marks if you so choose.
Yep, here it is.
Pretty sure "updated for this push" included "We removed the random drop bags". :P
Edit: Ok, so it was Salami, but you get the point. :P
*eats Salami for tricking him like that *
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
And my point still stands this is all assumption. They may they may not we DONT know and as the saying goes "asumption is the mother of all ****-ups!" and on tyhese forums folks have a astonishing tendancy to take assumption as fact. I have seen folks leave the game over one persons assumption based on a jaded opinion which later turned out not to be true.
What I am trying to say is assumptons are not helping anyone and can harm more then hekp which is why I take a wait and see attitude or give constructive feedback like in this case everyone making it clear that they DONT want loot bags gone as If I where a dev I would read this so far and go "oh another Cryptic is the devil thread" and leave it before concidering it.
agreed. runnign around screaming "OMG the sky is falling" is counterproductive and it happens everytime there is any sort of a change.
Comments
I have the gear , have completed more than a 1000 stf's , 700 before i got my first tech drop of anykind . I am stf out .. Now i have to do it all again . and i don't know what feels worse , the fact that i have put in all this time and spent my money on you guys to feel like you don't give a flying fudge about the folks that supported you thur the really bad times , when the game was really not up to par , lag and all the other issues that we had to endure . or 2 i don't know i just feel betrayed . its like you guys don't really care about the loyals that have been playin since beta .
I really think you have finally found the thing that is gonna have me saying , i need to find a new game .. gratz well done .. sad.. very sad day indeed..
Others have said DS9 will turn into more of a ghost town with the STF store being gone and I agree! This is my number 2 biggest concern that I've seen from logging into the TTS. Removing the STF store will ruin having a nice social hub for end game players to hang out. You have the store there still, I say make use of it! Not everything has to be bought from the UI! You all need to find some use for Commander Roxy and her crew! Don't let them end up being relics of the past.
If things don't change, season 7 or not, this completely sours the game for me.
Hmm think about it you who are saying its unfair.
You have to do as much as everyone else does to get the same thing only you have the parts you have already got saving you from needing them again.
Where is the problem?
Please explain it to me as I am obviously a MORON.
Let me say it how I see it one lase time.
You have to do as much as me to get something! only once the "store is unlocked by earning it" you dont have to buy what you already have. I on the other hand must get all the pieces. The only differance in Before 57 and after is that we will both know EXACTLY what it takes instead of it being a game of chance.
I welcome this new STF setup because I could never get around the gambling method rewards of the current STFs with the tech drop stuff.
I'd much rather know what I need to do to achieve the new equipment rather than gamble for it.
People who complain about the lockboxes should not defend the current method of STF rewards.
I really don't see the issue... so they are missing pieces... they have played how many to date? It hasnt dropped for them yet... so they'll have to run more, how many more noone can actually say... could be 1... or 100... or 1000.... Since its completely random... you never know.
Change the system, they'll have to run more to unlock the piece... BUT, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, you arent stumbling around in the darkness hoping you find the door... you can see it.. it might be a ways down a long hallway... but its there.
No one said you have to start over... purchase your 2 pieces, stick them in the bank and continue playing stf's as you have... focus on the Omega task Force reputation (based on the cost, its not gonna take that much to tier out).
Personally, I am glad LUCK has come out of the equation to obtain MK XII gear... although I do wish it didnt turn into sheer persistance (or bullheadedness). I'd really like to see the top end gear be skill based.
I'm a core player, been here a long time... I like the change.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Someone play Space Infected.
Yes please
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
This doesn't speak to the OP's question about the loot bag at the end. is it just Marks now and no more random lot? yeah, some of it was lame, but there's also some good stuff in there as well. Are you removing that feature as well?
Yes, if you played STFs on a need-to-play basis, you could theoretically do one elite STF every 6 days and have a minimal amount of Omega marks in your bank.
But you would have to find alternate dilithium sources.
So if I were you, I'd play the elite STFs as long as I need dilithium to refine. Perhaps even more for the elite Omega marks for later.
Right now it takes 24 days of maxed refining on a single character to get the 180k dilithium required to max out your reputation in a faction and get the Mk XII sets from Omega Force. 10 days to max out, 14 to get the set. I believe the RSE space sets behave the same, so 24 days there too.
For comparison, the XP assignments we've seen (or heard of) so far all take 40 hours. That's 2 days of refining, and the T5 assignments need 1 day's worth of refining per faction. You can just stockpile it up in the early tiers and keep it up from there, as the game only asks you for 2400 dilithium (1200 per faction) in T1, and is supposed to progress as the game continues. Pretty easy, don't you think?
Let's just hope and pray (or in my case, just hope :P) nobody goes out and changes that, reminding us that all values on Tribble are "subject to change". :mad:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
My character Tsin'xing
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
No you don't, you need them and the Mk XII set to get the elitest costume.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Thread has completely derailed.
If you have no reason to run ground missions, people will not.
Large portion of content is for ground what happens when the numbers go to space only.
Really what kind of reputation system allows you to get all ground equipment while never doing a ground mission.
The ground players had something to show before, now it will meaning nothing.
Really seems to me the new system is a Feel System and not a true reward system based on accomplishments.
I believe that is the influence of an eastern-world culture.
I suspect in the future we will see more of this "do this - get this reward" kind of thing. I wouldn't be suprised if there was a server-wide removal of loot tables at some point. Meaning enemies no longer drop items at all. Ever.
Everything would be done with dilithium. EC would cease to be a currency (why would they keep it when they dont make money from it) and absolutly everything would be done with dilithium. Then and only then will the change the refining cap.
I'm pretty sure it is permanent, asdfjkadfjkasf. (why the heck would ANYBODY have such a name?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Giving people rewards for running one easy elite STF once a week is kinda.. meh. ISE is actually a puggable elite STF, which means anyone can do it. I feel that the system really needs to check the optional accolade before letting you advance, at least you know that someone did them at least once.. and nobody stumbles onto the IGE optional. CGE, KAGE can be done with 4 people, but one bad person in IGE wrecks the optional in an instant.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
While that may sound alarmist, most things "endgame" at this point have had a dilithium cost added to them.
* Reputation system tiers = costs dilithium
* Starbase tiers = costs (massive mountains of) dilithium
* Embassy = costs dilithium
* Crafted gear = costs dilithium
* Fleet gear = costs dilithium after paying dilithium to unlock the tiers to gain access
* STF gear = now costs dilithium, for every item available
Many other items: new ships, hybrid weapons, special sets - either come out of a lockbox, the lobi store or the c-store (primarily T5 ships).
Were you backing me up there? Seems like it lol. Thanks.
You mention the lockbox / c-store which you could easily argue cost dilithium. The one store I have a real problem with is the Lobi store. Monetaryly (made up word) speaking it is incredibly expensive. It works out at something like $60 for a console that costs 200 Lobi. (200 lobi @ 5 per box = 40 boxes = 5000 zen = about $60)
How do people not have a problem with this?
Sorry drifting off topic. If only there were something more worth saying about these changes...
Edit: Oh and about ur signature, did you see the new embassy thing has a way for you to get a console that increases threat generation? Its SCIENCE though lol. Now you get to choose between that and shield capacity. Nice choice eh?
Where is the proof. From what I have seen in the past it looks like they had to remove it temporarily but will put it back before it goes live. after all folks forget Tribble is a TEST SERVER not every change is going to stay and there is No logical reason money based or otherwise to remove loot so please dont jump to conclusions its like saying "Oh the cstore doesnt work fully on tribble thus they are removing it" iboth you assumption and the example are conclusions jumped to hastely.
The reason why he is saying this is because they are currently applying the fleet framework to STFs. The fleet missions have no loot bag at the end, and in light of cryptics behavior, it follows that this would be another thing they would take away from us.
Yes.;)
I'm waiting to see the actual consoles before I comment on it.
If they do what I think they do, which is that they most likely add threat and nothing else - while bizarrely taking up a sci console slot when threat control is a Tactical skill and also forcing you to sacrifice survivability while you intentionally accept more incoming damage...yeah that's not even remotely worth it and is completely backwards in how a threat control boosting item needs to function.
Ok, maybe I didn't wait. :P
And my point still stands this is all assumption. They may they may not we DONT know and as the saying goes "asumption is the mother of all ****-ups!" and on tyhese forums folks have a astonishing tendancy to take assumption as fact. I have seen folks leave the game over one persons assumption based on a jaded opinion which later turned out not to be true.
What I am trying to say is assumptons are not helping anyone and can harm more then hekp which is why I take a wait and see attitude or give constructive feedback like in this case everyone making it clear that they DONT want loot bags gone as If I where a dev I would read this so far and go "oh another Cryptic is the devil thread" and leave it before concidering it.
Erm, 5000 zen is only 50$.
That, and I believe I read a post by Borticus that while removing the loot tables, they accidentally removed the associated dilithium. I'll go out to find and quote it.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Yep, here it is.
Pretty sure "updated for this push" included "We removed the random drop bags". :P
Edit: Ok, so it was Salami, but you get the point. :P
*eats Salami for tricking him like that
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
My character Tsin'xing