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Number Crunching with Hilbert
fakehilbert
Member Posts: 252 Arc User
I have parsed 10GB log data starting in Dec 11. (That's when I started logging everything.)
I intend to publish some in-depth analysis of the data at http://hilbertguide.com in the coming days/weeks.
Available so far:
I intend to publish some in-depth analysis of the data at http://hilbertguide.com in the coming days/weeks.
Available so far:
- EPtS
- TSS
- ST
- Science vs Engineering
- Borg shield proc and BFI doff
Post edited by fakehilbert on
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it's pretty clear that BFI doffs are silly and need a looking-at.
Too real.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Another thing to note is, people switching away from tss to BFI.
Sci/Sci, Eng/Cru and KDF setups (and the off Tac/T3 Golfball) are in there too, but not as many.
The values are averages over all players in those matches, so my personal build will slightly alter the disrtibution since my personal abilities will be represented more often than others, but overall it should be a fairly good look at arena pvp of the last 10 months.
I have note cleaned up the data (doing so would have taken weeks), so even STFs and a little bit of ground combat are in there, but I'm doing vastly more arena matches than anything else, so I don't expect this to have much of an effect on the data.
Seeing as you are mentioning ES though it isn't the healing that makes that skill an issue imo... its the resist. To be honest I don't even have any issues with ES the way it works... I just really don't like the fact that the opportunity cost is so low on it that we see it on escorts and sci healers. I think it needs to be the big boy heal that makes cruisers a team asset instead of the liability they are now....
Anyway great data... more fuel for the fire... BFI doffs need changed pronto.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Interesting how the data changes over time as well, with more people using BFI and less people using the borg set. Seems like the borg proc is pretty much in the sweet spot for balance, but BFI is a huge issue.
I don't know I would still say the borg proc is borked as well...
Frankly I would love to see the borg set deleted.
Like the situation where you run into a fight, use BFI doffs and u get massive heals on the scoreboard where if you run into the same situation with an RSP, the scoreboard score is way less, but effectively the same results is being achieved? (full shields)
I think that different heals have different ways of regenerating and showing it off in the stats/logs possible that they use different tick's per timeframe or whatever?
Did you include that into your calculation as well?
I disagree, the borg 3 piece set is being used on like what? 90% of ships? The hull heal is insane from Borg set, the fact that it eliminates every other set in almost every build, makes it overpowered. "Sweet Spot" you become far more squishy when you use another set, far more.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
As thats a definte issues with BFI and EPtS, on the other hand the Borg set definetly never overheals that much because of what it takes to proc it.
Also hw did you get so many weeks of parses in one giant log like this?
That is exactly what i was asking, see my post above, BFI seems to work way differently and behave different then RSP or TSS keeping ur shields filled. I almost think that BFI keeps healing shields with full log entries even if only 5 points are eaten from your shields, like RSP doesn't even register in the logs AT ALL.
I'm not denying that BFI doffs aren't a problem for the overal heal/dmg balance in the game atm though, dont get me wrong, i just want all facts on the table.
So, did u test the overhealing versus other abilities and include this in your analysis?
Edit: Also, BFI is actually bugged atm, where it's effectiveness is currently based off your AUX power, the BFI healing still works if your auxiliary is procced and offline. And even switching powerlevels to max and use BFI while your aux is still offline procs it to the full effect of full aux.
MT-
Really on some of my ships the borg heal proc is hitting for 2200 a tick... it overheals all over the place...
Frankly the borg set was the worst set for balance ever added to this game. It completely destroys balance... how do you balance a game where people with the set get at least double the healing of people with out it.
The borg set was the biggest travisty ever laid on this game balance wise... at least prior to f2p not everyone bothered getting a full set having to run those dumb stfs... Now its defacto... I get it for every toon witih in an hour of hitting level cap... cause its just that OP. It would be nice to be able to run regular sets again... heck I havn't used a piece of aegis gear since F2P launched.
All other gear is obsoleted by the "retro" borg set. lol
So a simple fix might be to disable set bonuses on PvP maps, maybe? Sounds good to me. That would open up so many more gear options and really allow you to take min/maxing to its limits. Plus, that would me no more Temporal "take your hands of the keyboard" Fields.
Its the 3pc borg set that still is the main problem, and mutliple extend shields and RSP, not BFI Doff.
Balance the borg set, make it require 4pc bonus to get either the hull or shield heal procs, leave the Doff alone.
Nerf the DOff and you will just force more people to use 3 pc borg.
Of course SDO doffs are providing the biggest heals on my builds, clearly much more efficient than they should be.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Good solution, but not one Cryptic would ever be willing to take. They have made it abundantly clear that they want continuity between PvP and PvE systems.
That being said, another good solution would be more very powerful items that aren't a part of sets, something that the fleet elite items do to a certain extent.
It's no fun for a player that has worked hard to unlock a certain power or effect, to be told they cannot use it in a certain circumstance. It's a more user-friendly option to tune such effects such that turning them off is never a necessity.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
That said, some items (not gear) should be turned off. The fleet bonuses for example rightfully don't have an effect in PvP. The same should be true for bonuses you get from doff missions, consumables like ablative jevonite, and of course team batteries, but sadly isn't. I wouldn't mind seeing deuterium disabled in PvP either, I certainly wouldn't miss grinding it.
Even if the borg proc was cut in half, aside from Tet Glider, the other STF set bonuses/powers are mostly pointless and people will still use the Borg set (or Glider).
The other sets have bonuses and special powers that are mostly terrible, irrelevant or very build specific and not very appealing.
This is correct, one thing Hilbert may have over looked as well as yourself. Is that TRH tested BFI and it's effectiveness while having flow capacitors. Flow capacitors enhance the heal ten fold.
My stuff may not be as fancy as Hilbert's, but it's good enough to depict the reality in a test that was 5 minutes long.
Anyway first picture: With Flow Caps
http://i49.tinypic.com/16918bq.png
This is a Jem Hadar Attack Ship using a very similar build to the other ship involved in this test. The bars at 625 is the redirect feedback doff proc. 3 BFI doffs were used, points in flow capacitors 99, full aux. Numbers for total heals from redirect feedback in a 5 minute test were 350k
Second picture: Without Flow Caps
http://i49.tinypic.com/300xhxy.png
Again this is a Jem Hadar attack ship. The bars closest to 500 is the redirect feedback doff proc. 3 BFI doffs were used, points in flow capacitors 0, full aux. Numbers for total heals from redirect feedback in a 5 minute test was 200k.
We had two Jem Hadars sit face to face and shoot one another during this test with low weapon power. These are the results.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Borg set bonus has been an issue since day one. Even it's last nerf hasn't taken it off the must use list.
I'm going to really really kick myself for suggesting this, but how about splitting off the MACO shields energy resist and power link bonus so that it becomes part of a set bonus (and buff the grav beam while they're at it). Same goes for the KDF shield, make the placate and acc debuff a three piece set bonus. That may force a good few players to make some difficult choices.
Or
Change the Borg heal proc so it's a four set bonus, forcing people to use the full set (including the much unused shield). After all, for a 2 piece set bonus, the heal proc is crazy powerful.
Argh, who am I kidding, people would just whine that it'll make the game too difficult.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Frankly I would rather be shooting at teams full of glider then teams full of 3 piece borg sets.
The borg set is the most insanely game breaking set ever released in this game... Glider V1.0 was less of an issue....
Lets be honest... every 45 seconds I can count on 100% of the time my borg hull proc to heal me for 2200 a tick... and the shield proc when I run a 3 piece... on the same timer giving me a TSS 2. The set is pure bunk and it always has been.
Take the borg set away for 2-3 days and see what would happen... the 1 hour match would be a thing of the past...
Frankly all the talk of nerfing BFI... lets be honest the borg set is far more broken then bfi doffs.
They could both get axed in the next patch by accident for a week... and I bet we would all have a ton more fun.
You know I have never been a fan of seperate mechanics either... however I have to say I'm warming to the idea... cause frankly
To bring BFI doffs... and Borg procs into real balance... you would have to nerf them so hard that the 70% of the people in this game that only PvE will have your head.
Frankly just turning all the dumb sets off in PvP would perhaps be the simple solution. lol
Ya I know not going to happen...
Really though I feel for you I have no idea how you fix the simple fact that if you don't have a min of 2 piece borg on for the hull heal you might as well not que up... and BFI doffs... You can probaly get by with axing half there numbers and if we don't say much about it I am not sure the majority of the pve guys would even notice.
The first preview chart shows average magnitudes over time (something like a ship equipped with one normalised copy of EPtS/ES/TSS/...). The situation will improve a bit towards non-BFI healing when we look closer at absolute healing numbers and start adding some things instead of averaging them.
I'll also be able to look at some data from premade matches prior to BFI/TT for comparison, although I'm afraid that the earliest data points I have (Dec 2010) won't be particularly meaningful since these are the super quick SW wins in the KT league. But I am confident that there will be some useful mid-2011 logs.