This is for the "earn your stripes" analogy poster:
Having spent a turn in the Navy and having earned rank.. I find it kind of insulting that you would compare 1,000 days in a video game to earning rank in the armed forces.
I could care less that Cryptic is giving away the ship to new Lifers...it doesn't affect me in any way. The only reason I can see others getting upset is that there will be more of the Chimera flying about so it will be less rare and therefore less "kewl"
Get over yourself. You didn't "earn" anything...it's a game. This morning there were about ten of us in ESD all flipping to tactical in unison. It was pretty cool looking.
I survived the 2012 Forum Merge - Join Date 11/2008
This is for the "earn your stripes" analogy poster:
Having spent a turn in the Navy and having earned rank.. I find it kind of insulting that you would compare 1,000 days in a video game to earning rank in the armed forces.
Get a grip, it's just an analogy, I find it insulting that you would be insulted over it.
It's a nice looking ship and interesting in that its a new Fed class type of ship, Those who have played 1000 days deserve such a reward. I started playing 1st day of free play , I hold no grudge to anyone who gets this ship from 1000 day commitment. If a person wants to pay $200 for a ship its there (in my opinion) bad choice. Also i=I wouldn't be surprised if in next six months we see a 2000-2500 zen basic version that doesn't have the moving parts and stuff and will look less shiny.
This is for the "earn your stripes" analogy poster:
Having spent a turn in the Navy and having earned rank.. I find it kind of insulting that you would compare 1,000 days in a video game to earning rank in the armed forces.
He's not making a direct comparison to the entire thing, he's making an analogy of one part of something to another part of something else to try to help people understand his point.
Personally, i'm happy he got creative and didn't just go with the overused car analogy.
Rename the stuff Lifetime perks and be done with it. It's semantics people are arguing about.
Well and the fact that some people literally had to wait 1000 days to get them all and some didn't.
So it's the fact that the "true" veterans didn't get the ship (never mind it didn't exist back then) on their first day of lifetiem membership, not the fact they had to "earn" it.
And it is strange to just log in and be called a 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900 and 1000 day veteran, even though it may be your first day. It makes you feel akward.
I am in the camp, that they should rename it lifetime perks, let people have the gizmos and cosmetic stuff and make the accolades and titles actually time based achievments.
It just doesn't make sense to call a first day "newb" a 1000 day veteran. However I would change those accolades into "Days subscribed or played" so silver players can earn them as well for logging in every day. Mind you, just the accolades and titles, not the other stuff.
He's not making a direct comparison to the entire thing, he's making an analogy of one part of something to another part of something else to try to help people understand his point.
Personally, i'm happy he got creative and didn't just go with the overused car analogy.
Maybe I'll try another one:
You go to school for 1000 days and earn your diploma.
A bunch of people come along and spend $300 and buy that same diploma.
Rename the stuff Lifetime perks and be done with it. It's semantics people are arguing about.
Well and the fact that some people literally had to wait 1000 days to get them all and some didn't.
So it's the fact that the "true" veterans didn't get the ship (never mind it didn't exist back then) on their first day of lifetiem membership, not the fact they had to "earn" it.
And it is strange to just log in and be called a 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900 and 1000 day veteran, even though it may be your first day. It makes you feel akward.
I am in the camp, that they should rename it lifetime perks, let people have the gizmos and cosmetic stuff and make the accolades and titles actually time based achievments.
It just doesn't make sense to call a first day "newb" a 1000 day veteran. However I would change those accolades into "Days subscribed or played" so silver players can earn them as well for logging in every day. Mind you, just the accolades and titles, not the other stuff.
That would actually be fair to everybody.
Agreed 1000%, it needs to be renamed, TRIBBLE "days" definition no longer applies to the reward.
It's a nice looking ship and interesting in that its a new Fed class type of ship, Those who have played 1000 days deserve such a reward. I started playing 1st day of free play , I hold no grudge to anyone who gets this ship from 1000 day commitment. If a person wants to pay $200 for a ship its there (in my opinion) bad choice. Also i=I wouldn't be surprised if in next six months we see a 2000-2500 zen basic version that doesn't have the moving parts and stuff and will look less shiny.
I think most of us would be perfectly ok with that!
I'm not saying people who payed for this game for 1000 Days shouldn't get somehting special, that's not the question. But i think that a new TYPE of ship is a bit too much. A Cruiser/escort hybrid, there is nothing even remotely like that availlabe for Starfleet. I think it's a bit unfair for everyone else to keep it from them.
Don't missunderstand me, that's not about denying veterans something they deserve. But that kind of ship is too unique imo.
I think, it would have been better if they would have released it on the C-Store without its moving parts and things like that (just like galr25 said) and gave the special version to the veterans. That would have prevented much mischief in the playerbase.
Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
You go to school for 1000 days and earn your diploma.
A bunch of people come along and spend $300 and buy that same diploma.
Point set match
One of these is not like the other. Your analogy is deeply flawed because in this scenario, there is no actual equivalent to the real world circumstances of this little "debacle".
The issue is that in the first sentence, you say "earn". In the second, you say "buy".
Let's make this perfectly clear: You, at no time, "earned" any veteran rewards. You bought them, and they were included in the price of your subscription.
In reality, what you earned was the money in the real world you used to then buy your subscription. You provided a service your your employer, earning your currency. You then used your currency to buy things like food, pay for utilities, and spend on things that (in theory) increase your happiness, such as video games.
You traded your money in as a subscription fee for access to the game (and after F2P, Gold benefits). The "veteran rewards" were included in the price both as an incentive to continue paying, and as a "thank you" for supporting the game's future development by giving them the money to do so.
The LTSer also earned their money by performing a service for their boss, and then also decided to spend it on something that made them happy (again, in theory), such as the LTS itself. the Vet Reward was included in the price, but illogically, was locked away behind an arbitrary waiting period, even though they were technically paid through for eternity, and could never unsubscribe for any reason.
Cryptic made the logical choice of letting someone have immediately what they paid for as a part of their fee. Everywhere else in the world, if I pay for something, I have an expectation to receive it in return for my money right then and there (or in the case of an internet purchase, for it to be set up and on its way as soon as possible).
Your analogy up top is a deeply flawed and poorly constructed straw man which I have just set on fire.
Sophistry: a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
Instead of going on the defensive and remarking about what a meanie I am, perhaps you should accept that I'm attacking your argument, and not you, and think about what I have actually said. Everything I have said is based purely on logic and fairness, and should not be taken personally.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Don't missunderstand me, that's not about denying veterans something they deserve. But that kind of ship is too unique imo.
I think, it would have been better if they would have released it on the C-Store without its moving parts and things like that (just like galr25 said) and gave the special version to the veterans. That would have prevented much mischief in the playerbase.
I really want that kind of ship but without the moving parts and the special console.
An escort/cruiser hybrid. Something like the Excelsior. Or an GalX with more turning speed xD
A more accurate analogy would be someone paying $15/month for 30 months to buy a house, only to find out his neighbor just bought the identical house next door for one lump sum of $300.
The rewards were never "earned", but "bought". If you didn't pay for it, you don't get it. Time spent was always meaningless, only the money spent.
One of these is not like the other. Your analogy is deeply flawed because in this scenario, there is no actual equivalent to the real world circumstances of this little "debacle".
The issue is that in the first sentence, you say "earn". In the second, you say "buy".
Let's make this perfectly clear: You, at no time, "earned" any veteran rewards. You bought them, and they were included in the price of your subscription.
In reality, what you earned was the money in the real world you used to then buy your subscription. You provided a service your your employer, earning your currency. You then used your currency to buy things like food, pay for utilities, and spend on things that (in theory) increase your happiness, such as video games.
You traded your money in as a subscription fee for access to the game (and after F2P, Gold benefits). The "veteran rewards" were included in the price both as an incentive to continue paying, and as a "thank you" for supporting the game's future development by giving them the money to do so.
The LTSer also earned their money by performing a service for their boss, and then also decided to spend it on something that made them happy (again, in theory), such as the LTS itself. the Vet Reward was included in the price, but illogically, was locked away behind an arbitrary waiting period, even though they were technically paid through for eternity, and could never unsubscribe for any reason.
Cryptic made the logical choice of letting someone have immediately what they paid for as a part of their fee. Everywhere else in the world, if I pay for something, I have an expectation to receive it in return for my money right then and there (or in the case of an internet purchase, for it to be set up and on its way as soon as possible).
Your analogy up top is a deeply flawed and poorly constructed straw man which I have just set on fire.
Instead of going on the defensive and remarking about what a meanie I am, perhaps you should accept that I'm attacking your argument, and not you, and think about what I have actually said. Everything I have said is based purely on logic and fairness, and should not be taken personally.
Nope, you earned them. :rolleyes:
Pretty sure LTS is advertising right not to BUY that sub to get all the former vet rewards.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] EXPLORE.
Dec '07 Account I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
Pretty sure LTS is advertising right not to BUY that sub to get all the former vet rewards.
Your staunch refusal to understand is at the core of your manufactured emotional distress over a business decision that has essentially no real effect on you.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Look, IMO, these "Vet Rewards" were always actually Subscrption Incentives. Tell me how a subscription based game could call them anything other than vet reward. With F2P, these perks finally filled the niche they were designed for. I swear, many of you sound worse then my two children fighting over a toy. Get your priorities straight. This is a game, not a job. Yall a bickering over nothing more than computer data. Sad, I come to STO to get away from childish bickering at my work, only to find it here too.
Your staunch refusal to understand is at the core of your manufactured emotional distress over a business decision that has essentially no real effect on you.
I believe he was being sarcastic, see the eyeroll emote?
I bought my Lifetime sub to STO at the start of the 2nd week of open beta and my investment has long since paid for itself.
I actually think that the newer players are tacking a bigger risk with buying a lifetime sub now since the game is now F2P and its uncertain if they?ll ever hit their breakeven point on their investment.
And yes vet rewards are still very much in STO but now they only apply subscribers that pay month to month.
I?m glad that Cryptic has finally found a way to distinguish (way to late IMO) the difference between Lifetime subscribers and monthly subbing gold members, Old school Lifers has well has the newer ones are still taking a much bigger risk on STO than a month to month subscriber that can opt out of their sub at any time.
Call it what you will but if Cryptic is able to bring in more money to this MMO with the sale of more lifetime subs then I say great for them and great for the future of STO.
I generally don?t play STO anymore; however, I?m glad to know that should I feel the spark to come back and play that they?ll most likely be a lot more Lifetime players around that will be fully invested in and pushing for the success of this MMO.
Whether you are a Lifer from 2 years ago or 2 Days ago, you?re still just a lifer to me.
I was known has 0Gambit0 before I was forced to change my handel :mad:
Your staunch refusal to understand is at the core of your manufactured emotional distress over a business decision that has essentially no real effect on you.
Another attempt at billitlement? *sigh*
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] EXPLORE.
Dec '07 Account I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
If everyone who threatened to quit "A GAME" over something insignificant actually did so, the forums, the game and maybe even the world would be a better, happier place.
I survived the 2012 Forum Merge - Join Date 11/2008
Get a grip, it's just an analogy, I find it insulting that you would be insulted over it.
You know, I used to like you Doctor. I really did. I didn't always agree with the things you had to say, but you oft times posted thought provoking things.
Yup, I used to like you, Doctor. That is until you decided that the only logical response to Cryptic's amazingly good business decision was for you to start acting like a crazy person, eshewing any idea that strays from your so very entitled , me me me me me attitude.
Your right. It's just an analogy. An analogy where you decide to insult the men and women who have served and died in the armed forces defending their country. And you compare them to a vet reward in a video game ???
What the ever living %$#@ is wrong with you man ?
And then you try to defend that instead of just saying you're sorry.
Could have said, "Hey, sorry, bad choice of words" instead you double down on your insult and claim that you are the injured party ?
I used to like you, Doctor. Now, you are simply someone who will insult the brave men and women of the armed forces (any country), and then not even admit his mistake, but rather try and use all this fabricated internet rage to try and say that you're offended because a large number of us find your "analogy" insulting.
To try and defend your insult, instead of just saying , sorry.
*shakes my head*
You keep saying in many threads that you are on the edge , thinking of leaving the game.
Please Do.
I for one won't miss someone of your now revealed character.
This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn't providing any civilized discussion, so due to this as well as the high number of flaming/trolling posts and/or reported posts in this thread; I'm closing this thread down.
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Thanks,
syberghost
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Funny I was just about to post the same thing but type this reply...
"I've read every single post in this thread since it was first posted and I've allowed it to take it's course up until now, unfortunately the constructive and civilised discussion and/or feedback has come to end, and so due to this reasoning as well as to prevent insults flying back and forth, I'm closing this thread."
Comments
Having spent a turn in the Navy and having earned rank.. I find it kind of insulting that you would compare 1,000 days in a video game to earning rank in the armed forces.
The boss, apparently.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Get over yourself. You didn't "earn" anything...it's a game. This morning there were about ten of us in ESD all flipping to tactical in unison. It was pretty cool looking.
*Glass raised*
My brother's best army buddy was shot down in Afghanistan about a year ago. RIP.
Get a grip, it's just an analogy, I find it insulting that you would be insulted over it.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
He's not making a direct comparison to the entire thing, he's making an analogy of one part of something to another part of something else to try to help people understand his point.
Personally, i'm happy he got creative and didn't just go with the overused car analogy.
Well and the fact that some people literally had to wait 1000 days to get them all and some didn't.
So it's the fact that the "true" veterans didn't get the ship (never mind it didn't exist back then) on their first day of lifetiem membership, not the fact they had to "earn" it.
And it is strange to just log in and be called a 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900 and 1000 day veteran, even though it may be your first day. It makes you feel akward.
I am in the camp, that they should rename it lifetime perks, let people have the gizmos and cosmetic stuff and make the accolades and titles actually time based achievments.
It just doesn't make sense to call a first day "newb" a 1000 day veteran. However I would change those accolades into "Days subscribed or played" so silver players can earn them as well for logging in every day. Mind you, just the accolades and titles, not the other stuff.
That would actually be fair to everybody.
Maybe I'll try another one:
You go to school for 1000 days and earn your diploma.
A bunch of people come along and spend $300 and buy that same diploma.
Point set match
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Agreed 1000%, it needs to be renamed, TRIBBLE "days" definition no longer applies to the reward.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
I'm not saying people who payed for this game for 1000 Days shouldn't get somehting special, that's not the question. But i think that a new TYPE of ship is a bit too much. A Cruiser/escort hybrid, there is nothing even remotely like that availlabe for Starfleet. I think it's a bit unfair for everyone else to keep it from them.
Don't missunderstand me, that's not about denying veterans something they deserve. But that kind of ship is too unique imo.
I think, it would have been better if they would have released it on the C-Store without its moving parts and things like that (just like galr25 said) and gave the special version to the veterans. That would have prevented much mischief in the playerbase.
Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are.
One of these is not like the other. Your analogy is deeply flawed because in this scenario, there is no actual equivalent to the real world circumstances of this little "debacle".
The issue is that in the first sentence, you say "earn". In the second, you say "buy".
Let's make this perfectly clear: You, at no time, "earned" any veteran rewards. You bought them, and they were included in the price of your subscription.
In reality, what you earned was the money in the real world you used to then buy your subscription. You provided a service your your employer, earning your currency. You then used your currency to buy things like food, pay for utilities, and spend on things that (in theory) increase your happiness, such as video games.
You traded your money in as a subscription fee for access to the game (and after F2P, Gold benefits). The "veteran rewards" were included in the price both as an incentive to continue paying, and as a "thank you" for supporting the game's future development by giving them the money to do so.
The LTSer also earned their money by performing a service for their boss, and then also decided to spend it on something that made them happy (again, in theory), such as the LTS itself. the Vet Reward was included in the price, but illogically, was locked away behind an arbitrary waiting period, even though they were technically paid through for eternity, and could never unsubscribe for any reason.
Cryptic made the logical choice of letting someone have immediately what they paid for as a part of their fee. Everywhere else in the world, if I pay for something, I have an expectation to receive it in return for my money right then and there (or in the case of an internet purchase, for it to be set up and on its way as soon as possible).
Your analogy up top is a deeply flawed and poorly constructed straw man which I have just set on fire.
Instead of going on the defensive and remarking about what a meanie I am, perhaps you should accept that I'm attacking your argument, and not you, and think about what I have actually said. Everything I have said is based purely on logic and fairness, and should not be taken personally.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
I really want that kind of ship but without the moving parts and the special console.
An escort/cruiser hybrid. Something like the Excelsior. Or an GalX with more turning speed xD
The rewards were never "earned", but "bought". If you didn't pay for it, you don't get it. Time spent was always meaningless, only the money spent.
Nope, you earned them. :rolleyes:
Pretty sure LTS is advertising right not to BUY that sub to get all the former vet rewards.
Dec '07 Account
I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget
Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
Your staunch refusal to understand is at the core of your manufactured emotional distress over a business decision that has essentially no real effect on you.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
I believe he was being sarcastic, see the eyeroll emote?
I bought my Lifetime sub to STO at the start of the 2nd week of open beta and my investment has long since paid for itself.
I actually think that the newer players are tacking a bigger risk with buying a lifetime sub now since the game is now F2P and its uncertain if they?ll ever hit their breakeven point on their investment.
And yes vet rewards are still very much in STO but now they only apply subscribers that pay month to month.
I?m glad that Cryptic has finally found a way to distinguish (way to late IMO) the difference between Lifetime subscribers and monthly subbing gold members, Old school Lifers has well has the newer ones are still taking a much bigger risk on STO than a month to month subscriber that can opt out of their sub at any time.
Call it what you will but if Cryptic is able to bring in more money to this MMO with the sale of more lifetime subs then I say great for them and great for the future of STO.
I generally don?t play STO anymore; however, I?m glad to know that should I feel the spark to come back and play that they?ll most likely be a lot more Lifetime players around that will be fully invested in and pushing for the success of this MMO.
Whether you are a Lifer from 2 years ago or 2 Days ago, you?re still just a lifer to me.
I was known has 0Gambit0 before I was forced to change my handel :mad:
Another attempt at billitlement? *sigh*
Dec '07 Account
I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget
Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
That is getting a little too far fetched Doc..
You know, I used to like you Doctor. I really did. I didn't always agree with the things you had to say, but you oft times posted thought provoking things.
Yup, I used to like you, Doctor. That is until you decided that the only logical response to Cryptic's amazingly good business decision was for you to start acting like a crazy person, eshewing any idea that strays from your so very entitled , me me me me me attitude.
Your right. It's just an analogy. An analogy where you decide to insult the men and women who have served and died in the armed forces defending their country. And you compare them to a vet reward in a video game ???
What the ever living %$#@ is wrong with you man ?
And then you try to defend that instead of just saying you're sorry.
Could have said, "Hey, sorry, bad choice of words" instead you double down on your insult and claim that you are the injured party ?
I used to like you, Doctor. Now, you are simply someone who will insult the brave men and women of the armed forces (any country), and then not even admit his mistake, but rather try and use all this fabricated internet rage to try and say that you're offended because a large number of us find your "analogy" insulting.
To try and defend your insult, instead of just saying , sorry.
*shakes my head*
You keep saying in many threads that you are on the edge , thinking of leaving the game.
Please Do.
I for one won't miss someone of your now revealed character.
Little ironic coming from someone who bragged about bagging a Wells that was accidentally put up on the Exchange for 9k a few days ago eh?
This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn't providing any civilized discussion, so due to this as well as the high number of flaming/trolling posts and/or reported posts in this thread; I'm closing this thread down.
Thanks,
syberghost
"I've read every single post in this thread since it was first posted and I've allowed it to take it's course up until now, unfortunately the constructive and civilised discussion and/or feedback has come to end, and so due to this reasoning as well as to prevent insults flying back and forth, I'm closing this thread."
Ninja posts :rolleyes: