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Phasers, Pistols, and the LOOK of the Game

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  • brokenmirror2012brokenmirror2012 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Easy Fix honestly...
    STO Lacks a Mana/Magicka system like all other games... Well add it

    Energy, Certain weapons drain more/less some abilitys etc...

    Introduction of a new class of items, Battery Packs, come with up to 3 mods with...

    [Cap] +10% Capacity
    [Reg] 2 Regeneration
    [Eff] Efficency Lowers power cost on skills by 2%
    [Spk] Power level spike 0.1% chance on weapon use to spike power to 500% over capacity, Does not reduce untill player drains it.
    [Ovr] Overload 0.5% chance to overload a weapons shot draining 2x more but dealing 2x more dmg. (only have 1 perpack)
    [CR] +5% cap +5% Reg
    [Sreg] 6 Reg -10% Cap
    [Scap] +20% cap 1 Reg (Does not exist below mk 2)
    [Force] +1 Force Regen (Explained later) Can only be found x2 on weapons (Only on very rare, a vr with it reads Battery Mk 11 [Force] [Mod] or Battery Mk X [Force] [force]

    Heres a chart for marks:
    Mk-White-green-blue-purple-fleet if applicable
    1-50-75-85-90
    2-80-85-90-95
    3-90-95-100-105
    4-105-105-110-110 (No mistakes here, This is to keep VAs from having around 400 cap)
    5-110-115-120-125
    6-120-125-125-130
    7-130-140-140-140
    8-140-140-145-150
    9-155-160-165-165
    10-180-180-180-180
    11-190-200-200-200
    12-210-210-210-210-220

    Now Regen
    1-2-2-2-2
    2-3-3-3-3
    3-4-4-4-4
    4-4-4-4-4
    5-4-4-4-4
    6-5-5-5-5
    7-5-5-5-5
    8-5-5-5-5
    9-6-6-6-6
    10-6-6-6-6
    11-7-8-9-10
    12-10-10-10-10

    Regen happens on a per second basis

    MACO UNIQUE ENERGYBATTERY
    Mk 10,
    Cap 180
    Reg 10 per second
    0.2% chance to burst a 10energy heal when using a weapon

    Mk 11
    Cap 200
    Reg 10/s
    0.2% chance to burst a 13 energy heal when using a weapon

    Mk 12
    Cap 210
    Reg 10/s
    0.2% chance to burst a 20 energy heal when using a weapon

    ALL ENERGYBATTERYS TO BE PURCHASED WITH EDCS NO TECHS FOR THEM

    MACO 4pc: Variable Matrix, Passive buff, doubes the number of shots before borg can adapt, also reduces energyresist effect on weapons by 10% (in pvp)

    Omega Force
    Mk 10
    Cap 160
    Reg 15/s
    0.5% chance to increase weapon dmg by 5% for 5s when reciving all damage

    Mk 11
    Cap 170
    Reg 16/s
    0.5 Chance to increase dmg by 5% for 5s when reciving all damage

    Mk 12
    Cap 200
    Reg 17/s
    0.5%chance to increase all damage by 5% for 5s when reciving all damage

    Omegaforce 4pc:Adaptive Responce Network: All are teamwide stacks with dif capt buffs but 2 Tact/eng/sci cant stack with itself

    Adaptive Responce network chages depending on the captain
    Tactical: +2% Energyweapon Damage +10% Melee Damage, +20% CritD +5% CritH
    Engineering: +2 Energy Regeneration/s (force regen) (explaination furtherdown) +4% energyweapon dmg
    Science: +5% CritH +10% Effectivness for all debuff skills

    Borg Nanites Trait:
    Force Regen +10 every 5/s

    Force Regen is forced Regeneration that occurs always, Ignores all buffs/debuffs that may increase or decrease regeneration and it will always be there helpful for compensating for rifles and assault weapons...

    NOW FOR WEAPON DRAIN!
    Pistol Drain 3 Energy on use (No regen debuff)
    Rifles Drain 7 Energy on use (Can not regen for 5s after use) *Force regen ignores this
    Assault Weapons Drain 10 Energy on use (Can not regen for 5s After use)
    Pulsewaves drain 20 energy (Can not regen for 5s afrer use)

    Unique Skills/weapons drain
    Name-Primary-Secondary
    TOS type 3-2 (no regen debuff)-30(10s regen debuff)
    Sniper Rifles-7(regen debuff)-7 (regen debuff) <-- Can not regen while charging sniper shot
    OVERCHARGED!-Standard-100 (increase dmg on this by 120% tho)
    Assault Minigun-10 (no debuff)-15(No debuff)
    Compression Bolt-3-6(No debuffs)
    Relitivity Weapons-2-5 <-- for all no debuffs
    Dual Pistols Drain 0.3 for each shot no regen debuff

    Stun Pistols come with a passive +2 regen when used

    So you can see pistols would be the most effective for large scale fights because rifles drain energy quickly (Debuff stops then from regenerating) And now pulsewaves will drop power significantly.

    New 1k Veteran reward to go with ship: DOFF +2 Force Regeneration

    ANd the lib borg trait will actualy make lib borg a desired class making more LTS Sales, more LTS sales means more money means less lockboxes means more content :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cavaduscavadus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    yreodred wrote: »
    I didn't say they never used big weapons on Star Trek. My point was that they didn't carry them always with them.

    Sure, they did. The rifles became pretty standard issue after awhile on VOY for away missions. In ENT we had the M.A.C.O.s. On DS9 they again became standard issue during the Dominion War. I mean, between DS9 and ENT we had actual soldiers in full battle-rattle being featured in nearly every episode after awhile.

    Between a full blown (at least according to the lore) with the KDF, frequent incursions by Borg, Tholians, Romulans, MU forces, Dominon, and at least a dozen other various alien nations and organizations the era of peaceful exploration is officially on hiatus.

    In times of war, like the time STO takes place in, there are soldiers and soldiers' weapons aplenty.
  • brokenmirror2012brokenmirror2012 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    And to everyone complaining about visuals:

    cryptic just give us a way to use crafting it set the visuals for our weapon (Down to color of the beam)

    Cosmetic doesnt affect gameplay in ANY way so bring back the /commands to change colors!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Well, Nemesis had holo-targeting.

    And on the stun pistol, does it by chance look like the TNG "cobra phaser"?

    I don't quite remember the holo targeting being as obvious on weapon in Nemesis as it is in STO. Regardless, it would be cool if we could turn it on or off much like armor and kits. The stun pistol does look like the 'cobra' except it has the holos and it is huge. On my 5'3" (160 cm) science officer, it is larger than her forearm. The cobra was big but still very much a hand held weapon.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I would actually be fine if they added pistol DOffs for some of this as long as they didn't also add rifle DOffs or the pistol DOffs were better.

    One perk of the DOff system I can see is that it becomes "Pay for Balance" if you want to use an odd build. I can actually admire that in a F2P game, if the default method of play is freely earnable and the quirky alternatives involve someone somewhere spending money to bring them up to par.

    Like if they had a unique "Special Ops" DOFF who reduces threat by 25% when using pistols and a Security variant who increases stun pistol damage and range by 12%, stackable up to three. (Yes, that's high but it takes into account that pistol secondaries do less damage.)

    That would be interesting... I could see something like this, but I still think that pistols should have some inherent advantage.
  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I guess it all depends on what other rpg you played or strictly Star Trek whicj I play both.I would say that pistals are more like wand or small battle axe.The Rifle is more like staff or Hammer.

    I much prefer wand when playing a castor role and sword or axe wehn playing a melee role.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
    Star Trek Gamers
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    cavadus wrote: »
    Sure, they did. The rifles became pretty standard issue after awhile on VOY for away missions. In ENT we had the M.A.C.O.s. On DS9 they again became standard issue during the Dominion War. I mean, between DS9 and ENT we had actual soldiers in full battle-rattle being featured in nearly every episode after awhile.
    Yes there where dedicated Starfleet personell carrying heavy weapons. But Starfleet officers especially Starship officers (that's us) where not part of regular ground forces.

    cavadus wrote: »
    Between a full blown (at least according to the lore) with the KDF, frequent incursions by Borg, Tholians, Romulans, MU forces, Dominon, and at least a dozen other various alien nations and organizations the era of peaceful exploration is officially on hiatus.

    In times of war, like the time STO takes place in, there are soldiers and soldiers' weapons aplenty.
    This alone shows how rediculusly exaggerated this game is, not to speak of crypitcs excessive designed starship/ground weapons and uniforms.


    What Star Trek made special wasn't war or open conflict, it was the interaction between the characters, mystery solving and the ambition to solve problems peaceful.
    War storys and endless fighting can be seen at other Sci Fi shows more than enough IMO.

    In my opinion Cryptic never was really interested in making a Star Trek game the should have made a Star Wars or they should have created a Sci Fi universe by themselves.
    To a certain degree STO is the complete opposite of what Star Trek is about.


    Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are. ;)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    There's already a uniform editor with "unlocks" - what's keeping them from implementing a "Gear Editor" with similar unlocks?
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    age03 wrote: »
    I guess it all depends on what other rpg you played or strictly Star Trek whicj I play both.I would say that pistals are more like wand or small battle axe.The Rifle is more like staff or Hammer.

    I much prefer wand when playing a castor role and sword or axe wehn playing a melee role.

    Interesting point but caster vs. melee doesn't determine your damage potential in a well designed RPG aside from losing some damage in exchange for risk mitigation.

    But then that would mean that melee should top damage, followed by phasers, followed by rifles.

    Being farther from an enemy is less risk. If you had equal damage for ranged, mid, and melee, you'd need to make melee and mid-range LESS risky. And if they do less damage than long range, they need substantially lower risk in some fashion.

    One way to do that might be to have an extra resource stat or gear item. Let's call it a Biofunction Monitor. It determines HP regeneration rate and is basically a super-version of what crew are in space. It's normally VERY effective. But it's sapped heavily whenever a rifle is equipped. It's sapped less with a hand weapon (maybe only when firing). And not sapped at all when a melee weapon is active.
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    There are some really cool- really Trek looking weapons in the game, but they're only Mk X blue quality.

    Perhaps there should be a crafting ability to 'upgrade' certain rare weapons. I'd love to get a Mk XII purple split beam (or better yet, sniper) Romulan disruptor rifle. That thing looks absolutely boss.
  • cavaduscavadus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    yreodred wrote: »
    Yes there where dedicated Starfleet personell carrying heavy weapons. But Starfleet officers especially Starship officers (that's us) where not part of regular ground forces.

    No, that's you. My unit operates as a M.A.C.O. outfit. I don't feel the need to force my perspective of ST down your throat so please stop forcing your interpretation of ST down mine.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    cavadus wrote: »
    No, that's you. My unit operates as a M.A.C.O. outfit. I don't feel the need to force my perspective of ST down your throat so please stop forcing your interpretation of ST down mine.


    You don't have to force your perception of game balance down his throat. The game's mechanics already do.

    Whereas either more balance or more nuance would allow you BOTH to have your visions.

    Making pistols equal doesn't make rifles worse.
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    azniadeet wrote: »
    There are some really cool- really Trek looking weapons in the game, but they're only Mk X blue quality.


    lolwut?

    There's a difference in visualizations between qualities? I thought it was just between marks...
  • ccarmichael07ccarmichael07 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I think STO needs to dial back on the "It's a time of many wars" feeling.

    Yeah. I get that. I mean, I'm shooting people, yes?

    I just want to look like Kirk or Riker and not a space marine doing it.

    This is a feeling I've had for a very long time.

    You look at our "Personal Armor" and it looks like something out of Halo.

    We have Mini-guns, which are like the auto-cannons the Troopers carry in Star Wars Episode II and III. We have Dual Pistols, because I'm not entirely sure, and we have swords, which we've never seen on TV before (Tsunkatse Falchion) yet we can't get the ones we have seen, even after we've asked for it. (Ushaan-tor)

    The way ground combat looks and feels in this game, doesn't make me think Star Trek. Not in the least. In fact its pretty much anything BUT Star Trek.

    Me, I still outfit my BOffs with hand phasers. Rifles (Sniper, Compression/Pulsewave, etc) are reserved for Security personnel, and the most you'll ever see in my landing party is 2, but usually it's more like 1. Just feels more "Trek" that way, even if I am gimping my away team by massive amounts.


    "You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
    I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    cavadus wrote: »
    No, that's you. My unit operates as a M.A.C.O. outfit. I don't feel the need to force my perspective of ST down your throat so please stop forcing your interpretation of ST down mine.
    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    In STO the player is clearly in Command of a Starship, not in command of a ground squad.
    If you want to pretend to play as a squad commander then that's YOUR perspective, the game says otherwise.


    This is a feeling I've had for a very long time.

    You look at our "Personal Armor" and it looks like something out of Halo.

    We have Mini-guns, which are like the auto-cannons the Troopers carry in Star Wars Episode II and III. We have Dual Pistols, because I'm not entirely sure, and we have swords, which we've never seen on TV before (Tsunkatse Falchion) yet we can't get the ones we have seen, even after we've asked for it. (Ushaan-tor)

    The way ground combat looks and feels in this game, doesn't make me think Star Trek. Not in the least. In fact its pretty much anything BUT Star Trek.

    Me, I still outfit my BOffs with hand phasers. Rifles (Sniper, Compression/Pulsewave, etc) are reserved for Security personnel, and the most you'll ever see in my landing party is 2, but usually it's more like 1. Just feels more "Trek" that way, even if I am gimping my away team by massive amounts.
    I 100% agree with you.
    The Ground Combat revamp we had didn't help to make the game more Star Trek, it was quite the opposite.
    Ground weapons/armor doesn't look like Star Trek at all, apparently the devs wanted to make their Star Trek game look more "cool", so kids who like Halo/Star Wars/Mass Effect or whatever join STO.

    In the years i play this game i have learned that the devs seem not to care about making a good Star Trek game, the seem to be more interested to turn Star Trek: Online into a stereotype MMO game.
    I said it previously in another thread, i think it would have been better, if they would just make their own generic Sci Fi universe and stop messing around with Star Trek.


    Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are. ;)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    lolwut?

    There's a difference in visualizations between qualities? I thought it was just between marks...

    I'm referring to some of the rare weapons, like the Romulan Split Beam Disruptor, the Fed Type 3 phaser Rifle, all the TOS pistols, etc...
  • mwgacy1mwgacy1 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    yreodred wrote: »
    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    In STO the player is clearly in Command of a Starship, not in command of a ground squad.
    If you want to pretend to play as a squad commander then that's YOUR perspective, the game says otherwise.


    Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are. ;)

    You may be in command of a starship when in space but on the ground you're heading up a small group of 'away team members'. Sounds a lot like commanding a ground squad to me.
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Same thing as before

    1) our trek is in the future; they have artistic freedom

    2) view any serious battle in ANY trek series you will find rifles


    Like some guy you are free to make your team look exactly w/e trek you like with pistols and uniforms so...

    And you are free to use pistols on the ground if you really want to just going to cost a little dps
  • cavaduscavadus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    mwgacy1 wrote: »
    You may be in command of a starship when in space but on the ground you're heading up a small group of 'away team members'. Sounds a lot like commanding a ground squad to me.

    Nope, there's only his interpretation of ST and all of the rest of just don't understand the franchise or something.

    @ mwgacy1

    In STO you could be a freighter captain if you really felt like it. Between all of the non UFP and KDF ships people could be Dominion, Cardassian, Ferengi, whatever they want.

    Again, stop trying to cram your myopic vision of ST down everyone else's throat. Who, exactly, do you think you are? Why do you feel you get to dictate my gameplay experience to me?

    You're neither a dev of STO or a curator of the IP. You don't get to dictate. Period.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    cavadus wrote: »
    Nope, there's only his interpretation of ST and all of the rest of just don't understand the franchise or something.

    @ mwgacy1

    In STO you could be a freighter captain if you really felt like it. Between all of the non UFP and KDF ships people could be Dominion, Cardassian, Ferengi, whatever they want.

    Again, stop trying to cram your myopic vision of ST down everyone else's throat. Who, exactly, do you think you are? Why do you feel you get to dictate my gameplay experience to me?

    You're neither a dev of STO or a curator of the IP. You don't get to dictate. Period.

    How is it cramming a vision down someone's throat to ask for an equal choice?

    The problem is that one weapon type is quantifiably better and it's not even the most commonly seen type.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    vestereng wrote: »
    Same thing as before

    1) our trek is in the future; they have artistic freedom

    2) view any serious battle in ANY trek series you will find rifles


    Like some guy you are free to make your team look exactly w/e trek you like with pistols and uniforms so...

    And you are free to use pistols on the ground if you really want to just going to cost a little dps

    There's only one TOS battle with them before getting outlawed by the creative team. There are few serious battles on TNG with rifles. Beyond that, there are examples of serious battles with other types of weapons... And canon examples where people outlined reasons for choosing one weapon over another, making it preference.

    On top of that, DS9 -- which used the rifles the most -- is the source of the longest dialogue example where the weapons were stated as a matter of preference and it was the DS9 tech manual, by DS9's tech consultants, that said that all phasers do equal damage, rifle or pistol.
  • cavaduscavadus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    There's only one TOS battle with them before getting outlawed by the creative team. There are few serious battles on TNG with rifles. Beyond that, there are examples of serious battles with other types of weapons... And canon examples where people outlined reasons for choosing one weapon over another, making it preference.

    On top of that, DS9 -- which used the rifles the most -- ...

    No, it didn't. ENT had the most rifle usage by far.

    Rifles were busted out in every single TNG movie, nearly every single episode of four seasons worth of DS9, and in a huge majority of ENT after season 1. Hell, season 3 of ENT had SF troops fast-roping out of rafters and Archer torturing people for information in airlocks all Jack Bauer style.

    ST has grown well beyond the obtuse scope presented by some of this thread's posters and STO reflects that. Sounds like there are just some sticks-in-the-mud who can't accept that ST has evolved.
  • ccarmichael07ccarmichael07 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    cavadus wrote: »
    No, it didn't. ENT had the most rifle usage by far.

    Rifles were busted out in every single TNG movie, nearly every single episode of four seasons worth of DS9, and in a huge majority of ENT after season 1. Hell, season 3 of ENT had SF troops fast-roping out of rafters and Archer torturing people for information in airlocks all Jack Bauer style.

    ST has grown well beyond the obtuse scope presented by some of this thread's posters and STO reflects that. Sounds like there are just some sticks-in-the-mud who can't accept that ST has evolved.

    You are missing the point stoleviathan and the OP are making.

    There is canon material which indicates that both hand phasers (Type 1 & 2) produce equal output with rifle phasers (Type III) and so the OP is asking for this to be translated to the ground weapons in STO.

    That doesn't equate to nerf of rifle and assault weapons, and it offers no change to gameplay other than cosmetic, giving people the option of how they arm themselves, without gimping themselves based on an arbitrary design decision which doesn't follow canon.

    We all know canon has to give way to gameplay at times for "fun factor". However, this is a case where canon can be observed accurately, while making the gameplay more fun for those who are trying for a more accurate reflection of Starfleet officers.


    "You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
    I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    cavadus wrote: »
    No, it didn't. ENT had the most rifle usage by far.

    Rifles were busted out in every single TNG movie, nearly every single episode of four seasons worth of DS9, and in a huge majority of ENT after season 1. Hell, season 3 of ENT had SF troops fast-roping out of rafters and Archer torturing people for information in airlocks all Jack Bauer style.

    ST has grown well beyond the obtuse scope presented by some of this thread's posters and STO reflects that. Sounds like there are just some sticks-in-the-mud who can't accept that ST has evolved.

    Militarization is never evolution.

    The way I see it, Star Trek devolved to make inroads with a culture in a period of decline... and still failed to do that, given that the spinoffs and TNG movies were a steady march into failure before the Abrams reboot managed to reconnect with bright colors and snappy pacing. I don't think we're as highbrow as we were in the 60s, 80s, or 90s but to the extent we like violence, we as a culture like bright, kinetic violence more than we like grim "realistic" violence.

    Hence, swirling Apple Store laser guns with color coded kill setting trumping the heavy hardware approach of Trek's failed experiment in coopting cultural ultraviolence.

    Shakespeare it ain't but it's a different flavor of violence than the failed approaches of Enterprise, Voyager, Insurrection, Nemesis... and to an extent (even though I love 'em all and these especially) DS9 and First Contact.

    I think the "grim metal, greasy hardware" approach to violence in media has failed and what has succeeded is "preppy candy rave genocide," light, snappy, and twice as brutal. I'm not sure that speaks well for us as a species or at least for western culture but I can clearly see how Trek's decline probably traces to a cultural disconnect you could see in TNG and how the stuff with the heavy rifles pretty much earmarks every failed attempt at trying to be relevant. They knew that they needed more violence, instinctively, to be a hit again... But they completely misjudged what kind of violence they needed.
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Wasn't a phaser rifle just a pistol mounted in a rifle shell for ease of carrying? Memory Alpha alludes that the type 3 is more powerful than the type 2 (which is more powerful than the type 1) due to an additional power source, in this case that source would be in the rifle shell. The weapons I could really do without are the hip mounted assault weapons. Ridiculous.
  • mwgacy1mwgacy1 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    There is canon material which indicates that both hand phasers (Type 1 & 2) produce equal output with rifle phasers (Type III) and so the OP is asking for this to be translated to the ground weapons in STO

    Pistols already deal similar damage numbers to Rifle's with their primary fire mode (the primary fire DPS is actually a little higher than a Rifle's), the only difference is they can't exploit unless you use the Compression pistol. Given the faster rate of fire and the control they offer (cone AoE Expose/ single target stun) I'm not sure why anyone feels the pistols are even in need of a buff.
    Comparing pistols to rifles is like comparing Science ships to Escorts; they both have similar roles (spaceship/ weapon) but how they fulfil that role is completely different. Whereas a rifle may be able to one shot a target a pistol can deal just as much, if not more damage to multiple targets (Wide Beam affects up to 5 IIRC).

    It just sounds to me like he's using a weapon for the visuals rather than because they fit his playstyle.
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Does anyone else really want a TNG-era phaser rifle?

    http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2421/4030643761_237640a51a.jpg
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    mwgacy1 wrote: »
    Pistols already deal similar damage numbers to Rifle's with their primary fire mode (the primary fire DPS is actually a little higher than a Rifle's), the only difference is they can't exploit unless you use the Compression pistol. Given the faster rate of fire and the control they offer (cone AoE Expose/ single target stun) I'm not sure why anyone feels the pistols are even in need of a buff.
    Comparing pistols to rifles is like comparing Science ships to Escorts; they both have similar roles (spaceship/ weapon) but how they fulfil that role is completely different. Whereas a rifle may be able to one shot a target a pistol can deal just as much, if not more damage to multiple targets (Wide Beam affects up to 5 IIRC).

    It just sounds to me like he's using a weapon for the visuals rather than because they fit his playstyle.

    It may well be that I'm comparing my MACO rifle to my pistols but I really started noticing with the Relativity weapons, where the rifle does more damage.

    I suppose I also noticed it because this took the stun effect to a new level. Stuns are nigh useless in PvE and became moreso after last year's ground revamp and Gozer designed the STFs around sniper rifles. Try doing an STF with no sniper rifles.

    Oh. I see from looking at a chart. Looks like the Relativity weapons stop scaling at Mk X?
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    cavadus wrote: »
    Nope, there's only his interpretation of ST and all of the rest of just don't understand the franchise or something.

    @ mwgacy1

    In STO you could be a freighter captain if you really felt like it. Between all of the non UFP and KDF ships people could be Dominion, Cardassian, Ferengi, whatever they want.

    Again, stop trying to cram your myopic vision of ST down everyone else's throat. Who, exactly, do you think you are? Why do you feel you get to dictate my gameplay experience to me?

    You're neither a dev of STO or a curator of the IP. You don't get to dictate. Period.
    Either YOU don not understand what Star Trek is about or you just want to troll.
    Anyway i couldn't care less.
    Militarization is never evolution.

    The way I see it, Star Trek devolved to make inroads with a culture in a period of decline... and still failed to do that, given that the spinoffs and TNG movies were a steady march into failure before the Abrams reboot managed to reconnect with bright colors and snappy pacing. I don't think we're as highbrow as we were in the 60s, 80s, or 90s but to the extent we like violence, we as a culture like bright, kinetic violence more than we like grim "realistic" violence.

    Hence, swirling Apple Store laser guns with color coded kill setting trumping the heavy hardware approach of Trek's failed experiment in coopting cultural ultraviolence.

    Shakespeare it ain't but it's a different flavor of violence than the failed approaches of Enterprise, Voyager, Insurrection, Nemesis... and to an extent (even though I love 'em all and these especially) DS9 and First Contact.

    I think the "grim metal, greasy hardware" approach to violence in media has failed and what has succeeded is "preppy candy rave genocide," light, snappy, and twice as brutal. I'm not sure that speaks well for us as a species or at least for western culture but I can clearly see how Trek's decline probably traces to a cultural disconnect you could see in TNG and how the stuff with the heavy rifles pretty much earmarks every failed attempt at trying to be relevant. They knew that they needed more violence, instinctively, to be a hit again... But they completely misjudged what kind of violence they needed.
    Very well said.
    Let me just add this.
    I think with the course of DS9 the producers of Star Trek slowly began to make violence something normal in Star Trek. I don't want to say that it was something bad, i must admit that sometimes picard and his excessive diplomatic behaviour was really annoying me.
    Worf: ".... our shields are at 50%!"
    Picard: "yellow alert, we don't want to provoke them..."
    I hope you know what i mean.
    There where also a lot of utterly boring episodes, like most of the deanna troi or some alien-of-the-week episodes.

    On the other hand later series sanctioned violence which slowly became something completely normal in Star Trek.
    Personally i think that it isn't important how often they shoot at each other but i think that it is much more important to generate suspension. And that's where most of later Trek (and STO) was unsucessful, shooting at more and more enemies doesn't create suspension in a movie (or Game).
    Just look at the movie "alien" (the first one) for, you don't see very much but it's thrilling anyway. Maybe that was a bad example but i think most of the time the producers of Trek did an awful job in creating suspension.

    Please don't confuse suspension with militarization, i think the big difference between Star Trek and almost all other Sci Fi series is (was) the portrayal of a positive humanity and future. It was a world where it would be good to live in, not a dystopia sci fi world we see everywhere else. Especially today where everything seems to go down the drain, i really miss the positive message Star Trek once had.


    Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are. ;)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    yreodred wrote: »
    Either YOU don not understand what Star Trek is about or you just want to troll.
    Anyway i couldn't care less.


    Very well said.
    Let me just add this.
    I think with the course of DS9 the producers of Star Trek slowly began to make violence something normal in Star Trek. I don't want to say that it was something bad, i must admit that sometimes picard and his excessive diplomatic behaviour was really annoying me.
    Worf: ".... our shields are at 50%!"
    Picard: "yellow alert, we don't want to provoke them..."
    I hope you know what i mean.
    There where also a lot of utterly boring episodes, like most of the deanna troi or some alien-of-the-week episodes.

    On the other hand later series sanctioned violence which slowly became something completely normal in Star Trek.
    Personally i think that it isn't important how often they shoot at each other but i think that it is much more important to generate suspension. And that's where most of later Trek (and STO) was unsucessful, shooting at more and more enemies doesn't create suspension in a movie (or Game).
    Just look at the movie "alien" (the first one) for, you don't see very much but it's thrilling anyway. Maybe that was a bad example but i think most of the time the producers of Trek did an awful job in creating suspension.

    Please don't confuse suspension with militarization, i think the big difference between Star Trek and almost all other Sci Fi series is (was) the portrayal of a positive humanity and future. It was a world where it would be good to live in, not a dystopia sci fi world we see everywhere else. Especially today where everything seems to go down the drain, i really miss the positive message Star Trek once had.


    Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are. ;)

    Suspense is great and I'm not above finding violence exciting.

    I think as part of the G.I.Joe generation (Late X, Early Y) that we like our violence quick and in neon colors, spanning from Super Friends to Power Rangers to Pokemon. We tend to like our heroes anarchic and edgy but also deeply sentimental and idealistic.

    It's why the last decade saw huge hits in Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Batman, and Avengers... and where I think the dumb violence aspect of J.J. Trek absolutely buried the dumb violence of Voyager and Enterprise in terms of appeal.

    I love the idea of a world with Picards in it and would jump at the challenge of making that work in a game system like STO's... And I love action.

    But I agree that the action we have feels very Halo/Mass Effect/Star Wars derivative. And it's not that Trek is a non-violent IP, whatever Roddenberry wanted. But Trek violence is more like a western with six shooters and shotguns and bar brawls than it is special ops. And you could say that's different in 2409 but I've seen art for Trek pitches and similar sci-fi IPs and they cling to that "attractive young officers with hair gel and six shooter phaser" aesthetic, even when set in a time of war.

    Trek isn't just science fiction. It's an update of that pulp-y Buck Rogers stuff with ray guns and jetpacks, tweaked to be more cowboy inspired and have a social message.

    I absolutely love the IDEA of MACO teams running around. I'd support the Enterprise MACO costumes being added to the C-Store.

    But where it counts, in places like STFs, it's rifles or GTFO. And I can FEEL a dip when I use a stun pistol, which happens to be what all the classic weapons are. If they released compression versions, maybe it wouldn't feel so off.
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