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Why do you or don't you use the Foundry.

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  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    trenttyler wrote: »
    Players want 100% professional quality content that develops a story arc, and blend seamlessly with prior content. Unfortunately the foundry does not provide this.

    Have the devs? lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I plan on trying some foundry missions soon. So far I been stuck doing the regular story missions. That is on my Fed. Now on my KDF I'm stuck doing the cluster missions to get him leveled up as well. I plan on doing a Foundry on my KDF to see what they are really like. However once I'm done with the major story line provided. I will really hit the Foundry as that will keep me going. Since I don't have a lot of time to do group missions. As my time on the game varies. I don't want to be caught up in the group mission and have to leave.
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  • avantgarde01avantgarde01 Member Posts: 273 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I use the Foundry and enjoy it. There are some really well written missions out there which are a joy to play. There are also some epic multi part missions that are extremely engrossing. The Foundry also fills a void that current Cryptic generated content does not. I enjoy ground combat with my boffs. Star cluster missions and the Breen daily are the only ways to get consistent ground combat missions. Otherwise you have to play the same old story missions over and over again. I currently do the Nagus daily Boarding Party missions, pretty much every single day, and other Foundry missions that offer ground combat.

    I've thought about producing some Foundry missions myself. After getting into it, I found that some assets integral to my stories aren't there yet. Hopefully that will change as they continue to add more to the Foundry.
  • thetruthurtsthetruthurts Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    trenttyler wrote: »
    While i understand some people love the Foundry and the ability to make their own stories. Some are really well done and on a professional level, but, always a but most players do not play a game to play player developed content.

    This was the argument when the foundry first rolled out before P2W. Players want 100% professional quality content that develops a story arc, and blend seamlessly with prior content. Unfortunately the foundry does not provide this. I was against the big push for player developed content, just because Cryptic said it would free them up to make ever increasing amounts of FE's, we see how that went.

    Cryptic saw the writing on the wall and hoped the foundry would be the saving grace of this game, and ultimately they bet wrong. All the foundry has done is demonstrate how passionate people are about this game, and lets Cryptic/PWE spend all there dev cycles on lock boxes and how to fleece people out of huge amounts of real world cash. This has a unintended consequence, P2W games are becoming main stream and the value of your play time has dropped considerably, unless some still think F2P is cheaper than buying a game and expansion pacs.

    The reason the foundry has not been as popular as the devs would have liked is because of the simple reason that it doesnt reward people for the amount of time it takes to play most "good" missions. If it did, I have a feeling most people would be more than happy to play foundry missions.
  • pyryckpyryck Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I do not use the Foundry.

    While I'm quite sure that there are some truly engrossing epic stories programmed up within the Foundry by the dedicated hard-working authors, I didn't and don't pay to play non official STO content.

    Way back when I was afraid that UGC, user generated content, was going to be relied on to fill the content needs of STO. And that has come to pass for the most part.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I use the foundry every now and then.

    It's given me some of the best (and worst :P) experiences in this game. I am however a firm believer in Sturgeons Law. Most of the UGC missions suck. I would like to see better ways to tell if a mission is good, bad or makes the Eye of Argon look like Shakespeare. :P
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I use the foundry every now and then.

    It's given me some of the best (and worst :P) experiences in this game. I am however a firm believer in Sturgeons Law. Most of the UGC missions suck. I would like to see better ways to tell if a mission is good, bad or makes the Eye of Argon look like Shakespeare. :P

    I would if:
    1. i had ANY talent to tell good stories. :o

    2. i had the time to create missions, in the first place

    On the other hand i LOVE doing missions made by some really talented people here. It's a huge joy to play some really trekkish missions for a change.


    Thank you for reading.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • thetruthurtsthetruthurts Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    pyryck wrote: »
    I didn't and don't pay to play non official STO content.

    That is an interesting statement, as it does not apply to free players. They arent paying any sub, therefore they cannot stipulate what they are supposedly paying for. And even if they make zen store purchases, they are only paying for that specific item, not for any certain type of game development. Assuming the majority of players do not pay a sub, that would mean that line of reasoning also does not apply to the majority.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    Have the devs? lol.

    Do you enjoy making Foundry missions...if yes then who care how many people play it, over 200 that's still a lot....I enjoy your stuff, and most likely would have left this game if it was not for people like you. Who cares what this thread say or thinks, its the Forums, and we are just the loudmouths of STO, but don't represent the bulk of the playerbase.

    I rather make something awesome and have 200 people like it, than make a POS and have everyone like it. If players want to pass on the foundry and get quick stuff, and wait for cryptic to make more FE (2013) that's on them.

    When it comes to Cryptic making new story content they have ADHD, and when they see a butterfly they drop what they were doing and try to catch it.....Whatever happen to Children of Kahn that was the next Featured series and no clue what happen to that one.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • captainbmoneycaptainbmoney Member Posts: 1,323 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I don't use it because I don't understand how it works completely.

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  • sumghaisumghai Member Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    At one stage I wanted to have a go creating my own Foundry mission.

    However, given a lack of a Trek-worthy plot, the inability to use my toon / BOff as NPC character costumes and the lack of assets / functionality to make an authentic Intrepid-class interior, I've put the Foundry aside in favour of campaigning for improved gameplay using customizable ship interiors in general.
    Laws of thermodynamics as applied to life: 0 - You must play the game. 1 - You can't win. 2 - You can't break even. 3 - You can't quit.
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  • voicesdarkvoicesdark Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Going to try really hard not to off end anyone on either side of this (Foundry Authors or Dev Team), not really sure how well that'll work, but I don't intend to.

    For me personally the biggest problem with the Foundry is also the biggest problem with STO, it all seems and plays like it's 1/4-1/2 finished. Star trek is about exploration, cooperation between races and the conflicts that can arise, and about the story of the adventures. Cryptic has not been able to capture the dynamic range of Star Trek and with the limitations of the Foundry it is even more pronounced.

    I have played some amazingly creative foundry missions, but at the same time you can only play so many before it's just the same old recycled assets, but again this is the same problem as in the game. Granted some authors have managed some truly amazing customizations on maps. (example: Kirkfat for one)

    There are game/map creation programs out there with legally free versions that give you so much more control over the creation process (IE click and drag 3d room/map editing) that truly put the foundry to shame. To be honest the foundry comes off as a hashed together rush job that's only real purpose is to be a selling point to get people interested in playing the game and spending money on ingame items on the premise of being able to create your own adventures in the Star Trek Universe.

    No offense to anyone out there but to be honest it's frustratingly difficult to sort through all the TRIBBLE in the foundry and find good missions. The UGC review system is nothing more than a glorified popularity contest, and needs to be seriously reworked. a general star system isn't in-depth enough for proper reviews. There have been many suggestions on how to improve that system such as an average rating based on specific points (example 5/5 for maps, 2/5 story, 1/5 mission diversity...)

    I've played several foundry missions where the overall story was far beyond the story content Cryptic has created, but the extensive limitations of the foundry toolset has greatly diminished the authors ability to properly do their story justice.

    Example: The Romulan Star Empire is in ruins, Sela's rise to power and her questionable actions have lead a group of Romulans to separate from new colonies and homeworld and set out into a remote part of Romulan space to create a new colony where they can rebuild and freely accept aid from other races, beginning to bridge the gap between Romulans and other races....

    No player controllable Romulan ships, no remote planet maps that haven't already been used to death, little romulan assets, inability to accurately edit a map in 3d or create custom terrain maps. Even simcity with how old it is gave you the ability to set some slider presets and generate a custom terrain.

    There are a number of clusters in the game, add planetary systems in there that you can actually go to, not just random spots that are either an anomaly or a planet system with the same cookie cutter missions.

    Give the players the tools to work with to properly create what they envision and instead of treating everyone like the world's biggest village idiot just make it intuitive. And add cross faction teaming for the foundry missions. simple mission idea: Feds get a distress call signal coming from a long lost fed ship in borg space, klingons get a distress call from a long lost kdf ship and the signal is coming from the exact location as the fed one....both intrigued by the mystery the fed and kdf captains (players) decide to team up and investigate together....there's a million more ideas like that that UGC authors I'm sure have been wanting to do but can't.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • therumancer23therumancer23 Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I more or less see the Foundary as being pointless as far as content goes. Other than rapidly grinding out the daily officer reports mission (which is best done with non-missions) there is very little payoff for the Foundary, especially if your character is already maxxed out. What's more it's very much a trial and error experience when it comes to actually finding a decent mission, assuming you just want story and nothing else, because at the end of the day that is all "The Foundary" is going to be able to do for you, and even storywise there are a lot of limitations because apparently the guys doing the Foundary missions can't use iconic characters and situations and such. What's more the Foundary more or less let's the users re-cycle stuff that is already in the game, and create what amount to fairly lifeless shooting galleries, as the people doing foundary missions can't include new gameplay elements, design unique mini-games, or similar things.

    At the same time, I can see why it can't be any other way, as giving a free hand to create any content they want to foundary users could create IP contract violations, or simple game balance issues if they could create their own items and mission rewards from whole cloth.

    As it stands, the foundary is nice as a supplementary tool, but it's no replacement for actual, professionally created content, and rewards that can advance your characters or at least open up more options.

    I'll also say as someone who has spent a bit of money on this game, that I have noticed Cryptic adding in more content like the starbases, as minor/grindcore as that was. Given the money Cryptic/Perfect World has made, I think there is no reason why they can't add more basic/free content to the game without a cash shop tie in gimmick.

    If nothing else, I think Perfect World/Cryptic needs to realize that fan-inertia will only go so far. There is going to be a point where people are going to realize they really have nothing to do with their extremely expensive tricked out Temporal Ship w/ Polarized Disruptors and C-store consoles in every slot, except grind the same STFs and other maps/missions and revel in how much overkill they can do. Such things need to be balanced by new content for people to play with their toys in. I personally think that given the money being made, the Temporal Ship should have launched at the same time as a Temporal Cold War-Themeed campaign of 8-12 missions (which of course you could do successfully with any kind of ship).

    The foundary is no excuse for neglecting content, and PW/Cryptic should balance free content upgrades with the paid content. As much as promises about territory control, possible Romulan Factions, and similar things are, some smaller content additions while waiting for the big ones would be nice, I mean other than whatever the latest lockbox is.
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    There is a 2.0 list that is stickied in the Foundry mission forum. Anything spotlighted, etc., gets added to the list.

    I'll go and check it out then .
    Any chance that it's either broken down to categories similar to those I mentioned or that they have a 10 word synopsis that one cans scroll through on the fly ?
    If not , will future versions of such a list include those ?
    If you're interested in the holographic rights stuff in the path to 2409, please check out "Vulcan Love Slave #9." Or, if you want a continuation of the Defera FE, see mygod_itsfullofstar's "Checks and Balances."

    See , as you've written above , a very short synopsis in a recomendation list would go a long LOOOOONG way toward initiating interest based on the topic .
    (I for example am interested in both topics as described above)
    Perhaps you'll get 1 or maybe even 2 FE series by the end of 2014. Hopefully they will continue the story for you. However, I'd be surprised if it wasn't just some kind of new enemy of the season, designed more with the c-store in mind. Story tacked on later.

    C-Store FIRST , New Tech second (the D'Angelo obsession) , Story Third .
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If people in general were not motivated by rewards, then there would be no need to attach rewards to almost every mission.

    While this is true , ppl are also motivated to check out new "official" content .
    That is why I've played most of the FE missions (or "Alpha") .
  • naharikajalnaharikajal Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I am not a creator of missions myself but I play foundry missions a lot. I love that tool because it gives me (as a player) a nearly endless pool of great Sci-Fi and Star Trek Stories to play/enjoy.

    Actually without the Foundry missions I would not play STO as much as I do now. From time to time I like to be a MMO-player and grind all my purple gear but mostly I am more a fan of good told stories. STFs give me gear and Foundry missions the story.

    Also I am a person with a big imagination so if an author tells me that "2 hours past" or "The Klingon starts to shout at you" I can "see" this things happen (like when you are reading a book).

    This is my reward for playing these mission. I know I am a minority with this thinking ^^ Don't get me wrong: I want to see ig rewards for completing them as well as all you other guys. So I hope they will be added very soon.

    About the canon discussion. As someone stated already: to me personally it's equal to the ST novels. In other words: I don't care if it's canon or whatever word you use. It's not important to me if it's written by Branon Braga or Kirkfat. As long as it's good and give me a Trek-feeling I really don't care!

    Btw: very interesting discussion so I just wanted to post my personal opinion in here.
  • thetruthurtsthetruthurts Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    While this is true , ppl are also motivated to check out new "official" content .
    That is why I've played most of the FE missions (or "Alpha") .

    Some may be. But if they did not add any rewards to the missions, lots of people would complain and say they would rather spend that same amount of time doing dailies.
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I almost played a foundry mission once, then I asked myself why am I doing this again ?

    Couldn't answer that and went back to grinding stf while watching tv on my laptop
  • thetruthurtsthetruthurts Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    vestereng wrote: »
    I almost played a foundry mission once, then I asked myself why am I doing this again ?

    Couldn't answer that and went back to grinding stf while watching tv on my laptop

    Would you have actually played it if you would have gotten a reward comparable to playing an official mission?
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Yeah maybe but I also kind of like doing stf I get to play with other people, it's why I am playing a multiplayer game in the first place - I don't know if you can bring other players with you into a foundry mission ?
  • hevachhevach Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    vestereng wrote: »
    Yeah maybe but I also kind of like doing stf I get to play with other people, it's why I am playing a multiplayer game in the first place - I don't know if you can bring other players with you into a foundry mission ?

    You can. It can create minor plot holes (enemy groups scale with party size, so what's referred to as a single ship in dialog becomes several and a wing of fighters can include a battleship), but so can teaming on standard missions and there's no restriction there. Some of the fancy tricks some foundry authors use to create map transitions without a loading screen can end up locking people outside of the map if you're not careful. Some authors will add green text warning you to make sure your entire party is on the transport pad or in the turbolift, but not all.
  • varoolvarool Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    i already have drawn up everything for my first few foundry missions, i can even post up the complete conversation script of one such mission. i want to use the foundry but at this moment i can not and due to other matters over the next month or so, so i will not be able to even consider it let alone build the zen to get a slot for missions. at some point i will get the foundry and get these missions created.
  • thetruthurtsthetruthurts Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    vestereng wrote: »
    Yeah maybe but I also kind of like doing stf I get to play with other people, it's why I am playing a multiplayer game in the first place - I don't know if you can bring other players with you into a foundry mission ?

    Yes, you can. And the numbers of NPCs in foundry missions scale with group number like they do in normal missions.
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    edited October 2012
    varool wrote: »
    i already have drawn up everything for my first few foundry missions, i can even post up the complete conversation script of one such mission. i want to use the foundry but at this moment i can not and due to other matters over the next month or so, so i will not be able to even consider it let alone build the zen to get a slot for missions. at some point i will get the foundry and get these missions created.

    You can get slots with dilithium. 10,000 for four if memory serves.

    And like everyone else says: You can team for Foundry missions. Has anyone ever run into a feature in this game you can't team up for? I sure haven't.

    Beyond Kirkfat's great mission list, I highly recommend you all take a look at http://starbaseugc.com Home of:
    PodcastUGC - A foundry and general sto/other trek podcast
    BroadcastUGC - A weekly videocast where authors team up to play Foundry missions, acting out the parts and reviewing
    PrimetimeUGC - A twice-monthly videocast in a sort of variety show format, with author interviews, missions reviews, hilarious parodies, news and more.
    Foundry Files - a newly-revived spinoff of STOked focusing on the Foundry
    Duke of Rock's Mission Reviews - Well-thought out one-page reviews of great Foundry missions.
    Author announcements of new missions
    Foundry-related news

    And the chatroom where authors gather to discuss the Foundry... and lots of other things.
    The Foundry Roundtable live Saturdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Off-topic...

    I'm noticing some violations of Forum Rules in this thread. Could those responsible please go back and clean up their posts before any further moderation is necessary?

    Let's keep the conversation civil. It's a good thread, lots of valid opinions being expressed, and there's no need for further hostility here.

    Thanks in advance for your cooperation! :)
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kirksplat wrote: »
    See sig. Thanks.

    Played and rated.

    Now for the bad news: My seldom used original Fed toon (in his T2 ship) completed the journey from sol to the dark corner of eta-eridani in about 5 minutes and died at least a dozen times EACH space encounter as well as quite a few times on the ground so:
    A. It's not exactly meant for all levels
    and
    B. should have a transwarp to mission start for those without slipstream.
    :cool:

    definitely NOT killer issues but the time I spent travelling and dying completely destroyed my nightly dilith grinding time (lost about 10K dilith last night due to time constraints).

    Other than that- the dialog was excellent and sickbay was brilliant. NICELY done. You plannig on doing a continuation mission ? I'd really like to see the Lt. and 'prisoners' interaction with the Capt. following this mission.
    ;)
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    To an extent, as can be seen from various replies - it is likely going to depend on the player. I'm not that big into the I need a gold carrot for even looking at something, and I have to say that the Foundry is one of the few reasons that I'd recommend the game to anybody (most people I know are not after the gold carrot either).
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    edited October 2012
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    Played and rated.

    Now for the bad news: My seldom used original Fed toon (in his T2 ship) completed the journey from sol to the dark corner of eta-eridani in about 5 minutes and died at least a dozen times EACH space encounter as well as quite a few times on the ground so:
    A. It's not exactly meant for all levels
    and
    B. should have a transwarp to mission start for those without slipstream.

    A. Difficulty is really hard to determine sometimes. The same player can run the same mission twice and find it really hard one playthrough and steamroll it the next. We also have no way of predicting player skill or gear level. Its kind of a guessing game for authors. Plus, some players delight in difficulty, where others hate it.

    B. Not something authors can put with their missions. Would love to have it though, how about with a small (huge) dilithium fee that goes to the author, lol!

    Glad you liked it though, Kirkfat is one of our greatest authors, not to mention a great UGC community luminary.
    The Foundry Roundtable live Saturdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    Played and rated.

    Now for the bad news: My seldom used original Fed toon (in his T2 ship) completed the journey from sol to the dark corner of eta-eridani in about 5 minutes and died at least a dozen times EACH space encounter as well as quite a few times on the ground so:
    A. It's not exactly meant for all levels
    and
    B. should have a transwarp to mission start for those without slipstream.
    :cool:

    definitely NOT killer issues but the time I spent travelling and dying completely destroyed my nightly dilith grinding time (lost about 10K dilith last night due to time constraints).

    Other than that- the dialog was excellent and sickbay was brilliant. NICELY done. You plannig on doing a continuation mission ? I'd really like to see the Lt. and 'prisoners' interaction with the Capt. following this mission.
    ;)

    My god, does your ship have shields? I can't control how the mission scales. They are easy mobs for most players. Do you have skill points distributed on your Fed toon? I also can't put a transwarp door to eta eridani. Thanks for playing though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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