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Fleet Mark Abusers

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  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Just remove the leaver penalty and the problem is solved.
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  • jknamejkname Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Buy zen with your excess it's what I do.
    I do that. Zen is pretty! Doesn't really do anything about the surplus of unrefined dilithium though. Since all payouts are in unrefined, it just backlogs.
    Yes the edc isn't that great once you have full sets of everything but I wasn't suggesting those players at that level do the normals, I was suggesting those who are first time admirals and not eledgible to play the elites be forced to do at least one of each. You argued that there was no point and that there was nothing worth it. I argue that untill elites open you can always do afew normals for the off chance of some rare salvage which can net you a decent amount of dilithium or some good stopgap borg gear.
    Yes, but like I said, I can get vendortrash and dilithium anywhere, I don't need to waste my time on a low-yield source for that.
    If a new player had to learn the ropes and actualy become effective in order to play the missions the you would see fewer scrubs queing for elites in rainbow boats doing effectively nothing.
    You have a naively optimistic view of people, I see. No, the scrubism would continue: It's not that these guys can't do damage to things. It's that they're just mentally TRIBBLE. I mean, I was new once. ONCE. Then someone told me what to do, and I did that thing. Not really complicated. But this VERY SIMPLE thing is somehow utterly beyond the grasp of most. I don't consider myself some kind of genius. I'm just a guy of average mental capacity. But you know something scary? More than half the population is of below average intelligence.
    I also believe more players would actualy pay attention to their chat window if there was an actual effort cost to gaining entry into the elite stf's.
    You're kidding, right? There's an actual effort cost to reaching 40+, too, but that doesn't stop people from being MORONS. You can't fix stupid.
  • flintl0ck33flintl0ck33 Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    perhaps a solution could be a sort of challenge response system to check if a player is actually there.

    Example:

    A team thinks the player is afk or not bothering to play. They would highlight the player and press a challange button. The afker would get a message saying "You are challanged ..press <randomly assigned key> to keep playing. If they do not press the key in a certain time, they are removed from the STF and another selected from the queue.

    Players who fail the check could also have a timed ban applied to them from logging into another STF

    The option to challenge should have no cooldown, so if an afker wants to sit there pressing random buttons for the whole mission...good luck to them!

    It also stops the whole WOW mentality of votekick, where one mistake or issue gets you thrown out.
  • jknamejkname Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    No, if you can keep challenging a guy over and over, it turns into a tool for harassment.

    Although I do like the concept. It could be something you could perform when not in combat, your character walks up to the other guy and gives him a kick to see if he's alive. If he doesn't respond to being kicked by doing anything, he's declared dead.
  • flintl0ck33flintl0ck33 Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    jkname wrote: »
    No, if you can keep challenging a guy over and over, it turns into a tool for harassment.

    Although I do like the concept. It could be something you could perform when not in combat, your character walks up to the other guy and gives him a kick to see if he's alive. If he doesn't respond to being kicked by doing anything, he's declared dead.

    hmm yeah didnt think about the harassment side of it.

    However you could take out the spam click side of it and make the system the same except if the player has been clicked as afk..the system will fire 3 random timed checks at them (1 initial check then another 2 randomly after within a 10 min period) . If they fail they are kicked as normal. If they get all three they cannot be challanged again.
  • jknamejkname Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Two problems: First, because of the nature of sadorandomness, the popups will ALWAYS happen in the middle of DOING SOMETHING, so people will use that just to harass others.

    Second: If you're really willing to wait up to 10 minutes to kick this guy, your raid has already bombed anyway.

    Third: If I were a professional AFKer, I could trivially defeat this.
  • intrepidukintrepiduk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    The solution is simple; if you feel uncomfortable with the liklihood of dealing with endesirables in pugs then don't pug. Pugging is like rolling a dice, you won't get a six every time.
  • hanoverhanover Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    So if you don't know enough people to put a private quest together, you should just have to accept being screwed over by "AFK-ers"?

    Great solution. :rolleyes:
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  • robeasomrobeasom Member Posts: 1,911 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    jkname wrote: »
    No, if you can keep challenging a guy over and over, it turns into a tool for harassment.

    Although I do like the concept. It could be something you could perform when not in combat, your character walks up to the other guy and gives him a kick to see if he's alive. If he doesn't respond to being kicked by doing anything, he's declared dead.
    Getting beaten to death I know a few people I would have liked to have done that to in a STF lol
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  • jacenjacen24jacenjacen24 Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Ive played the game for about a month maybe 2. This weekend i spammed elite stf's and starbase incursions. It was perfect the timers worked out nicely.

    I dont know how many i did but i played from 7am til 11 pm. Stopping to eat and take care of my dog.

    So in 16 hours of play i ran into this once. A guy on incursion. The remainder of us still managed to break the 30 fleet mark barrier.

    My point is when it happens its annoying so you remember it. But it iant nearly as rampant as implied here.

    So just go about your business and forget they exist.

    Ps. I finally got my complete mark12 maco set and my Heavy carrier finally got all mark 12 weapons.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    jkname wrote: »
    I do that. Zen is pretty! Doesn't really do anything about the surplus of unrefined dilithium though. Since all payouts are in unrefined, it just backlogs.

    Yes, but like I said, I can get vendortrash and dilithium anywhere, I don't need to waste my time on a low-yield source for that.

    You have a naively optimistic view of people, I see. No, the scrubism would continue: It's not that these guys can't do damage to things. It's that they're just mentally TRIBBLE. I mean, I was new once. ONCE. Then someone told me what to do, and I did that thing. Not really complicated. But this VERY SIMPLE thing is somehow utterly beyond the grasp of most. I don't consider myself some kind of genius. I'm just a guy of average mental capacity. But you know something scary? More than half the population is of below average intelligence.

    You're kidding, right? There's an actual effort cost to reaching 40+, too, but that doesn't stop people from being MORONS. You can't fix stupid.


    Well I see that we won't be able to agree. I don't understand why you are making it seem like it will only affect you, chances are you would barely notice but it is what it is.
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  • jknamejkname Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    "Happens Every Day" sounds pretty rampant to me. If your house was destroyed by hurricanes at that frequency, you would quickly conclude that the area is plagued by rampant hurricanes and is uninhabitable without extreme countermeasures.

    Assuming your perception of time is not that of a 6 year old and therefore a day is not a lot of time, this means that this is pretty much a constantly occurring event.
  • tinead51tinead51 Member Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    jkname wrote: »
    "Happens Every Day" sounds pretty rampant to me. If your house was destroyed by hurricanes at that frequency, you would quickly conclude that the area is plagued by rampant hurricanes and is uninhabitable without extreme countermeasures.

    Assuming your perception of time is not that of a 6 year old and therefore a day is not a lot of time, this means that this is pretty much a constantly occurring event.

    Wow,you are so wise,your posts are awesome,everything you say is the bestest,I haz so much hero worship for you.All nOObs should friend you,is your handle @RichardCranium ?
    :rolleyes:

    STO needs more peeps like you,for TRIBBLE...
  • varoolvarool Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    jkname wrote: »
    Auto-rating systems for such things rarely work. I've been in lots of games that have them, and they're almost entirely meaningless...and even when they aren't, what are you going to DO about them?

    Honestly, you're better off trying to form contacts with people you've participated in previous successful raids with and forming groups from those. I know what you mean: I, too, come from a small and understaffed fleet. But I also happen to know that none of the solutions proposed really WORK. Even if you measure it based on damage/healing, it's entirely possible that these values are counterproductive: Some butthead will focus ENTIRELY on these stats, often in ways that are counterproductive to the success of the mission, like those guys who ALWAYS, ALWAYS, destroy the generator.

    Meanwhile, the guy who actually tried to protect the Kang gets shafted on stats.

    Ugh, no. I've never played a non-elite raid in my entire career. What a total waste of time! There is a precisely zero percent chance of anything worthwhile dropping in non-Elite STFs.

    i play a KDF raptor plasma torpedo role, i attack heavily armed cubes and stations alone so everyone else can deal with the other things, why should i be shafted because i took up my role of damage per second? there has to be middle ground on this.
    jkname wrote: »
    You are joking, right? In a public game, it often takes longer than that just to figure out what everyone is going to be doing, orient your ship, and then drive to the battle.

    Besides, of all the things you want to be doing in a scenario, you're going to use it SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER, which both GUARANTEES that you're down at least one man, AND wastes time?

    This "solution" of yours does nothing to resolve this problem AND probably makes it worse. It is also a massive waste of time to implement merely to satisfy your pointless spite, since engaging in this behavior does nothing to further the mission goals and is, in fact, entirely counterproductive. Maybe the guy just had a sudden attack of explosive diarrhea. Maybe he's just useless. Either way, if you're spending your time SHOOTING AT HIM, you are ALSO being useless, so now that's TWO people not contributing.

    i tend to agree, although i saw an afker earlier on, i didn't waste time on him, i mentioned it to the team and left it at that as nothing else can be done about it.
    Already looked into that a long time ago.



    Never worked like that before. I'll have to try again. Nontheless doesn't excuse such people abusing the system and ruining it for everyone else.




    Why do you think this system I proposed is a 2-Way PvP system? Of course it's not, else PvPers would end up adding to the problem. It's 1-way, where the group can attack the player.

    Honestly, I really hope Cryptic abandons this stupid queue system and goes back to finding groups the old way. If there is an abuser, he would be quickly alienated by the population and we solve problems. But with this queue nonsense, this is Cryptic's responsiblity. We aren't paying to be griefed and they better realize it.

    what happens if your fleet, your friends in other fleets can not make it but you wish to play an STF? you would either decide to PuG it which case you could end up with an afk'er or worse. it does not address the issue.
    aarons8 wrote: »
    just put them on your ignore list and they shouldnt be on your team anymore in the future.

    what good has an ignore list done? it only makes you less able to PuG for rounds and more and more dependent on your friends and when they are gone? how will you be able to play STFs? this does not address the abusers, infact it is just another form of abuse.
    intrepiduk wrote: »
    The solution is simple; if you feel uncomfortable with the liklihood of dealing with endesirables in pugs then don't pug. Pugging is like rolling a dice, you won't get a six every time.

    what happens in the likelihood they you are not friends with anyone and have no fleet and want to play?
  • intrepidukintrepiduk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    If you are not in a fleet and have no friends, then I humbly suggest the player become sociable and make some, join a casual fleet perhaps and go from there.
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    intrepiduk wrote: »
    If you are not in a fleet and have no friends, then I humbly suggest the player become sociable and make some, join a casual fleet perhaps and go from there.

    You don't need to be in a fleet to make friends in order to do stuff.
    varool wrote: »
    what happens if your fleet, your friends in other fleets can not make it but you wish to play an STF? you would either decide to PuG it which case you could end up with an afk'er or worse. it does not address the issue.

    If I can't find a group, I find something to do, like catch up with accolades. But I'm not going to troll and make other people miserable by wasting their time by sitting still in an STF or Fleet Mark Event.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    varool wrote: »
    i play a KDF raptor plasma torpedo role, i attack heavily armed cubes and stations alone so everyone else can deal with the other things, why should i be shafted because i took up my role of damage per second? there has to be middle ground on this. (snip)

    If you were refering to my version the no you would be averaged with other escorts your level so as long as you did at least the average amount of damage you would be fine. My system also provided a bonus for the more focused builds so if you were geared more heavily to damage than other escorts it would negate the penelty for below average healing. I don't think it would be a probled tho since your average escort has limited healing potential and you are usualy at least healing yourself.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I wonder if ignore could work so that the queue doesn't team you with anyone on your ignore list. Lists could circulate around about players that afk on a constant basis. Ignored players should be mentioned a few times before going on the list since there might be a few afkers that have a legitimate excuse since you can't ignore real life.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    starkaos wrote: »
    Ignored players should be mentioned a few times before going on the list since there might be a few afkers that have a legitimate excuse since you can't ignore real life.

    Yeah, those guys who get spontaneous explosive diarrhea need to be accounted for.
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  • fiberteksyfirfiberteksyfir Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    starkaos wrote: »
    I wonder if ignore could work so that the queue doesn't team you with anyone on your ignore list. Lists could circulate around about players that afk on a constant basis. Ignored players should be mentioned a few times before going on the list since there might be a few afkers that have a legitimate excuse since you can't ignore real life.

    The PUG queues should already do this. If you have somebody on ignore and there are you plus an ignored person, the queue will pop without one of u
  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    starkaos wrote: »
    I wonder if ignore could work so that the queue doesn't team you with anyone on your ignore list. Lists could circulate around about players that afk on a constant basis. Ignored players should be mentioned a few times before going on the list since there might be a few afkers that have a legitimate excuse since you can't ignore real life.

    Oh yes, because we all know grifers wouldn't take advantage of an ignore list either. :rolleyes:

    Sadly everytime I see ideas on how to deal with STF AFK'ers, Fleet Mark abusers, the whole 9 yards every idea basically has an extremely high chance to be griefed. It sadly comes down to the simple same old option you have -

    If you want to risk a PUG then risk a pug. If not? Get into a organized channel and run a private match. There is never going to be a simple straight forward answer that'll not be abused or make everyone happy. :(
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  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    askray wrote: »
    Oh yes, because we all know grifers wouldn't take advantage of an ignore list either. :rolleyes:

    Sadly everytime I see ideas on how to deal with STF AFK'ers, Fleet Mark abusers, the whole 9 yards every idea basically has an extremely high chance to be griefed. It sadly comes down to the simple same old option you have -

    If you want to risk a PUG then risk a pug. If not? Get into a organized channel and run a private match. There is never going to be a simple straight forward answer that'll not be abused or make everyone happy. :(

    What about a take Dmg/ Deal Dmg calculator

    The dev's create a system that looks at what the avg dmg done or taken is - then to be on the safe side use 50% of that number

    If a player does not reach that threshold then they get no loot at the end

    This seems extremely simple as the player won't know the threshold number and has to participte or get nothing. If Real life comes up and you have to go afk - well like real life you might miss out on your reward.

    All around I think this is the best system as it would be almost impossible to abuse.
  • captainmerzancaptainmerzan Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    My personal salution on this is when i run into some one like this i just leave , i have enough toons to go play another one, if every body did this these lurkers would get nothing and soon learn there waisting there time, I won't waist my healing hypos and shields and stuff to benifit some one who wont try to help the team, so the simplest fix to this is when you go in one and there is a lurker there that not moveing and doesnt help the team every body just leave, the lurkers will soon get tired of not getting anything for free .
  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    What about a take Dmg/ Deal Dmg calculator

    The dev's create a system that looks at what the avg dmg done or taken is - then to be on the safe side use 50% of that number

    If a player does not reach that threshold then they get no loot at the end

    This seems extremely simple as the player won't know the threshold number and has to participte or get nothing. If Real life comes up and you have to go afk - well like real life you might miss out on your reward.

    All around I think this is the best system as it would be almost impossible to abuse.
    Okay so what if you're a healer and dishing out a ton of heals not dmg? And before you answer this one, because I got a feeling I know what you'll say, how would they know that you're not AFK healing (ie just healing yourself but not really there) :)
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  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    askray wrote: »
    Okay so what if you're a healer and dishing out a ton of heals not dmg? And before you answer this one, because I got a feeling I know what you'll say, how would they know that you're not AFK healing (ie just healing yourself but not really there) :)

    I think the system registers healing as a metric.

    But it's an avg - no matter what job your doing - your going to be taking dmg if you are involved in any PvE

    that's why I also said the threshold would be 50% of avg - so you would be forced to participate not knowing where that threshold is.
  • phyrexianherophyrexianhero Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    How about this for a possible solution?

    Allow a report option on player (but *not* simply a vote/kick) [the reported player need not be aware he has been reported]. If 2-3 players on the team report the same player *and* the player does not meet some minimum set of criteria by the end of the match (which could include move a certain distance, dealing X damage, *and* spends at least 20% of time in combat) then no rewards are granted to the reported player.

    That way people can play as they like and if they notice someone is AFKing or deliberately trolling then that person will be forced to prove they made an honest effort. Having multiple criteria that must be met would ensure that the player isn't just running around without firing, or taking a hit and never respawning.

    Gozer had worked on a system to stop AFKers in PvPs so hopefully Dods will be able to roll something out like that for PvE in the not too distant future.
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  • yris3yris3 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Not sure a Dev will read that, but I came up with a solution, give the rewards only to people who claim them at the end, like an optional in a STF with a timer, say 30 secs to "claim reward/pass on reward", an afker will miss the reward window unless he stays in front his screen.

    Read "reward" as Fleet marks.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    yris3 wrote: »
    Not sure a Dev will read that, but I came up with a solution, give the rewards only to people who claim them at the end, like an optional in a STF with a timer, say 30 secs to "claim reward/pass on reward", an afker will miss the reward window unless he stays in front his screen.

    Read "reward" as Fleet marks.

    At least in the old STF system you actually had to move to get your loot - now it drops whereever you are - so someone just has to park there butt at the spawn point.

    They should do that in STF again and perhaps fleet events like colony invasion - if you are at the very beginning you have to run to the end to pick up your marks.

    Still the take damage indicator/threshold I mentioned would be the best - if you are not taking x amount of damage you aren't in the fight.

    Even the strecher bearers and medics who would run in to help the wounded got hit - so if you are taking no damage then you get no loot/marks
  • jknamejkname Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I forsee professonal AFKers working around this by using Cannibal Tribbles to ensure they take damage.
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    askray wrote: »
    Oh yes, because we all know grifers wouldn't take advantage of an ignore list either. :rolleyes:

    Sadly everytime I see ideas on how to deal with STF AFK'ers, Fleet Mark abusers, the whole 9 yards every idea basically has an extremely high chance to be griefed. It sadly comes down to the simple same old option you have -

    If you want to risk a PUG then risk a pug. If not? Get into a organized channel and run a private match. There is never going to be a simple straight forward answer that'll not be abused or make everyone happy. :(

    So basically this is ending up more as, "D if you do, D if you don't".

    True, until someone comes up with the perfect system that has 0 flaws, where the system can't be used to grief innocent players. But right now, surely we can't let these people get away with it either. It's just not fair to those who play the game legitimately.

    I'm sure some of you played online games where innocent players are driven away by griefers, and eventually the game basically was populated by trash and the game a wasteland. And right now, with Perfect World's lack of action, that is exactly what is happening right now. You got roleplayers being harassed and driven away from the game they loved, you got griefers ruining the queues, and there are griefers abusing the system and finding ways to kill mission NPCs.

    And what is Perfect World doing? Absolutely nothing that we can see. Which drags down the morale of the system and people lose faith, and just stop supporting this game. Is that what Cryptic really wants?



    Right now, the only two 100% effective, non-griefing methods is:

    1) Perfect World's CSR does take action against such player. Where they can review the logs and determine if they really were afk griefing or not. (Which takes away from other Tickets).

    2) We return to the Pre-Queue system where players can weed out the griefers before the match even started.


    Do we see either of this happening anytime soon? Absolutely not. Which to me means that the Golden Age of STO is long past us and that everything is downhill.
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