Oh yes, because we all know grifers wouldn't take advantage of an ignore list either. :rolleyes:
I really can't see how a griefer would exploit an exclude-X-player-from-being-in-the-same-team-as-me list. If a griefer ignores you, you will never be teamed with him...so...you're missing what, exactly? A giant conspiracy to put you on some sort of global ignore list wouldn't really work, because trying to get a mass group of players to ANYTHING is an exercise harder than herding cats. Thus, maybe a FEW people, all of which were that moron's friends anyway, might exclude you...OH THE HUGE MANATEE.
1) Perfect World's CSR does take action against such player. Where they can review the logs and determine if they really were afk griefing or not. (Which takes away from other Tickets).
Yes, but there are thousands of these people. Either you'd need a detailed investigation of every incident, or you'd have people being punished on hearsay. The first is logistically infeasible, the second is a disaster.
2) We return to the Pre-Queue system where players can weed out the griefers before the match even started.
I wasn't around for that, but can't you essentially do this by pre-forming a team before queuing as a team? As a side benefit, you can form a group that doesn't pop a nag box about every single dropped grenade and potion.
Do we see either of this happening anytime soon? Absolutely not. Which to me means that the Golden Age of STO is long past us and that everything is downhill.
That is a given. The entropy of a closed system always increases. Thus, the game progressively gets worse until it inevitably dies. Just witness the latest update, which did nothing except nerf things and add additional annoyance to the game for anyone joining KDF, as if KDF doesn't already have few enough players that we need to annoy the **** out of those who still want in after they've already slogged through 25 levels of Fed.
In any world there are two kinds of people. Those who make the rules, and those who obey them. Crying for rules says you are weak. Be the rule you would like to see in the world, and the world will change.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
Anyone caught idling in a Public Queue without initalizing Red Alert after 30 seconds at the start of the event, engages a PvP Flag in which others players can attack that player under the premise of "dereliction of duty". Upon destruction, that player cannot collect any rewards from the Event and cannot respawn for the remainder of the event.
I haven't read the entire thread but.. why not just use a vote-kick system? If four people vote to kick the fifth person, they are removed from the team, and the map. It works in other games, I fail to understand why it wouldn't work here.
If someone is just going to sit at the start point, then you are already down a person. May as well get rid of them so they don't reap the rewards of your effort.
It's potentially exploitable, like any system, but the chances are extremely low of a coordinated troll assault taking out the one decent person on the team, since it would need to be unanimous.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
In any world there are two kinds of people. Those who make the rules, and those who obey them. Crying for rules says you are weak. Be the rule you would like to see in the world, and the world will change.
Crying for rules? No, I'm asking for the cops to "serve and protect", which they promised me that they would do.
Yes, but there are thousands of these people. Either you'd need a detailed investigation of every incident, or you'd have people being punished on hearsay. The first is logistically infeasible, the second is a disaster.
You rather we ignore the problem and let them continue to grief? Why not have a big sign that says, "Griefers Welcome, harass all you want"?
I wasn't around for that, but can't you essentially do this by pre-forming a team before queuing as a team? As a side benefit, you can form a group that doesn't pop a nag box about every single dropped grenade and potion.
No Queues period. You grouped up and went on a mission as a team.
That is a given. The entropy of a closed system always increases. Thus, the game progressively gets worse until it inevitably dies. Just witness the latest update, which did nothing except nerf things and add additional annoyance to the game for anyone joining KDF, as if KDF doesn't already have few enough players that we need to annoy the **** out of those who still want in after they've already slogged through 25 levels of Fed.
Nerf things, Cryptic broke them.
Cryptic claims how much they care about STO and the community, but when they break things, they just sweap it under the carpet and pretend nothing is wrong. Right now some STFs are completely unplayable and we have to wait a week for them to get fixed? That really doesn't sound like a good way to run a business.
Guess MMO companies are getting lazy in fixing things they broke, even TOR had this trouble. But if you go back to the Varent Days of Everquest, if there was a bug after a patch, it was fixed within 24 hours.
Or do we just let them continue to abuse the system and ruin it for everyone else?
Suggestion: DON'T PUG events if you don't want these issues. Pick Up Grouping is a problem across all MMOs.
Personally though, with the amount of Marks they now give out for easy things like 75 per Doff Commendation Report missions; 50 for the Foundry wrapper mission and 5 for the under two minute Starbase dailies...
I really wonder why folks who want marks bother with the Fleet Events or Nukara any longer. As usual Cryptic over rewards for the simple stuff; and the mission and event content designed for the Fleet system gets used less, eventually leading the Cryptic data mining team to report there's no need for future mission/event content of this type.
Cryptic seems to discard any meaningful 'Risk vs Reward' metric soon after implementing any new system, and thn wonders why any mission content made to support it is underused.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Personally though, with the amount of Marks they now give out for easy things like 75 per Doff Commendation Report missions; 50 for the Foundry wrapper mission and 5 for the under two minute Starbase dailies...
Ah yes, 75 marks for 10,000 CXP. Yeah that's a fair trade. Then spend the next few months grinding back to that level. :rolleyes:
I really wonder why folks who want marks bother with the Fleet Events or Nukara any longer. As usual Cryptic over rewards for the simple stuff; and the mission and event content designed for the Fleet system gets used less, eventually leading the Cryptic data mining team to report there's no need for future mission/event content of this type.
Cryptic seems to discard any meaningful 'Risk vs Reward' metric soon after implementing any new system, and thn wonders why any mission content made to support it is underused.
If I had my way, Marks would be general reward. From Ensign all the way to VA in STFs. You do what you want to do, problem solved.
But knowing Cryptic, this new Rep system is for Season 7, is just going to be another boring grind. Which only can be done within the new zones. Which people would burn out within a month. Frankly, they are just making things worse with this method, due to it not being long term enterainment.
I'm sorry, but I shouldn't be forced to avoid content because of a few individals who devote themselves to harassing others.
But here's the thing: I honestly don't see many, or really, ANY, people who are outright devoted to harassing others. Just lots of people who are terribly, terribly, bad.
Right now some STFs are completely unplayable and we have to wait a week for them to get fixed? That really doesn't sound like a good way to run a business.
So your solution to the problem "Cryptic doesn't have enough people doing QA to catch all the serious bugs" is "...so let's give them less time for testing"?
I don't think that solution is going to have the desired effect.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I haven't read the entire thread but.. why not just use a vote-kick system? If four people vote to kick the fifth person, they are removed from the team, and the map. It works in other games, I fail to understand why it wouldn't work here.
If someone is just going to sit at the start point, then you are already down a person. May as well get rid of them so they don't reap the rewards of your effort.
It's potentially exploitable, like any system, but the chances are extremely low of a coordinated troll assault taking out the one decent person on the team, since it would need to be unanimous.
I could imagine people "greifing" the Vote-Kick system. Imagine if a fleet is doing a "Fleet run" and doesn't have enough for a five-man. The fleet could pm everyone else to kick the guy right before the marks are awarded so only the fleetmates get Marks.
I could imagine people "greifing" the Vote-Kick system. Imagine if a fleet is doing a "Fleet run" and doesn't have enough for a five-man. The fleet could pm everyone else to kick the guy right before the marks are awarded so only the fleetmates get Marks.
Why would they do that?? Besides trolling, no fleet would do that, it's not like they get more fleet marks or that persons share of marks.
I could imagine people "greifing" the Vote-Kick system. Imagine if a fleet is doing a "Fleet run" and doesn't have enough for a five-man. The fleet could pm everyone else to kick the guy right before the marks are awarded so only the fleetmates get Marks.
I had posted my idea on how to counter that in an earlier thread that was inexplicably deleted. All that needs to be done is to have a timer after which kick voting is disabled. It would vary by event, but in timed things like Blockade, perhaps the option is only available for the first five of the fifteen minutes. Events where the time depends on the proficiency of the team would be a bit more tricky. In any case, the rest of the team can usually figure out within a couple minutes whether someone is a parasite and kick them. Once the option is disabled, there would be no potential for griefing. If for some reason a team decides to unjustifiably kick a person early, then they're down a player for no good reason, and hopefully to their own detriment. I suppose there is still the possibility of a parasite being active for the first couple minutes to keep up appearances until they're unkickable, but maybe most of them wouldn't even bother.
But here's the thing: I honestly don't see many, or really, ANY, people who are outright devoted to harassing others. Just lots of people who are terribly, terribly, bad.
I'd name one fleet that is well-known and devoted, but unfortunately that's breaking the forum rules.
So your solution to the problem "Cryptic doesn't have enough people doing QA to catch all the serious bugs" is "...so let's give them less time for testing"?
I don't think that solution is going to have the desired effect.
Where did I ever say "give them less time for testing"? :rolleyes:
But even as someone working for Cryptic, you must admit that the team really needs to do some major bug squashing. Because Khitomer becoming unplayable and the team not doing an emergency patch, has really got quite a bit of people miffed.
BTW, for thread note: Ignore doesn't work in preventing you from grouping with people you don't want to group with. I had that infamous fleet on ignore and still managed to group with one of their moocher members.
Where did I ever say "give them less time for testing"? :rolleyes:
When you complained we have to wait a week for the fix. The fix has to be identified. Then it has to be coded. Before that coding can start, decisions have to be made about which version of the codebase to put it in, based on what else is impacted, because during the meantime they've been coding other fixes and features; just saying "add the fix to the code that existed as of that patch" doesn't take into account the possibility that other work already done would then need to be redone to account for this fix, so decisions would have to be made about whether to backport it and dual (or more than dual) maintain the code, or add it to the current branch being developed. If the latter, it would then be held up for EVERYTHING to get tested, not just this one change.
A lot of the errors that wind up in the game are probably due to attempts to shortcut those processes.
By the time we see a patch, the developers have been doing weeks of further coding. Depending on how much is impacted by the fix for this issue, it could be no big deal to dual-maintain it, or it could be a massive impact that brings all development to a halt while the codebase is synced. If the latter, the more likely decision would be to roll the fix into the next scheduled release of new features, which could be weeks away. It all depends on the magnitude of the fix and the number of people affected by the bug.
Since none of us has access to the code, we can't know what's impacted by the fix for this problem, and this is just one fix we're talking about.
A week for a fix? That's not unusual at all. That's about how long it takes to get an important but non-show-stopper fix in at my employer, too, and we've got more people working QA than STO has total employees.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
First a question. Do you gain experience or rewards while dead? As in, if I were killed in a fleet event and never respawned would the loot table drop any reward for me? Am I awarded xp, marks, or special loot?
Next a proposal. Assuming it's not set already, a deceased player should gain no xp, rewards, or drops while deceased. If you are deceased for a set period of time you are automaticly removed from the match. Perhaps instead of a vote kick option theres a vote kill option. It would only be activated 5 minutes after the start of an event. Once a vote is passed the player voted against explodes and is sent into a respawn with a 1 mintue countdown timer. If you haven't respawned by the time the timer finishes you are automaticaly kicked from the game. A player voted against has the option to end the vote but only if they are within 10 k of an enemy or a friendly. There is a 15 second timer on the vote so all players get a chance to vote and the target of the vote has tho opportunity to move into range if they were for instance just respawned. You can not initiate a vote against a deceased player or while deceased. The respawn is available instantly and is independant of any other respawn timers.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Is it possible some of them are just starting the queue so their friends can play? If not then they really are evil and there is only one very simple solution, the STO agonizer-mouse-glove. When donning this elegant mitten of pain it will be impossible to remove it until the mission is at an end. while wearing it your teammates can send helpful jolts of electricity into your finger tips to inspire you to fight harder. Naturally, the more players that send shocks to you the greater the intensity of the inspiration.
Is it possible some of them are just starting the queue so their friends can play? If not then they really are evil and there is only one very simple solution, the STO agonizer-mouse-glove. When donning this elegant mitten of pain it will be impossible to remove it until the mission is at an end. while wearing it your teammates can send helpful jolts of electricity into your finger tips to inspire you to fight harder. Naturally, the more players that send shocks to you the greater the intensity of the inspiration.
Lulz. Im sure there are other uses as well.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
When you complained we have to wait a week for the fix. The fix has to be identified. Then it has to be coded. Before that coding can start, decisions have to be made about which version of the codebase to put it in, based on what else is impacted, because during the meantime they've been coding other fixes and features; just saying "add the fix to the code that existed as of that patch" doesn't take into account the possibility that other work already done would then need to be redone to account for this fix, so decisions would have to be made about whether to backport it and dual (or more than dual) maintain the code, or add it to the current branch being developed. If the latter, it would then be held up for EVERYTHING to get tested, not just this one change.
A lot of the errors that wind up in the game are probably due to attempts to shortcut those processes.
By the time we see a patch, the developers have been doing weeks of further coding. Depending on how much is impacted by the fix for this issue, it could be no big deal to dual-maintain it, or it could be a massive impact that brings all development to a halt while the codebase is synced. If the latter, the more likely decision would be to roll the fix into the next scheduled release of new features, which could be weeks away. It all depends on the magnitude of the fix and the number of people affected by the bug.
Since none of us has access to the code, we can't know what's impacted by the fix for this problem, and this is just one fix we're talking about.
A week for a fix? That's not unusual at all. That's about how long it takes to get an important but non-show-stopper fix in at my employer, too, and we've got more people working QA than STO has total employees.
Find it somewhat funny that a moderator derailing a thread. :P
Anyhow, if they haven't found an answer for a bug, they could've easily rerolled the previous build until the bugs that were caused by that build was repaired. And given the amount of bugs from this weeks build, they should've done so.
Comments
Yes, but there are thousands of these people. Either you'd need a detailed investigation of every incident, or you'd have people being punished on hearsay. The first is logistically infeasible, the second is a disaster.
I wasn't around for that, but can't you essentially do this by pre-forming a team before queuing as a team? As a side benefit, you can form a group that doesn't pop a nag box about every single dropped grenade and potion.
That is a given. The entropy of a closed system always increases. Thus, the game progressively gets worse until it inevitably dies. Just witness the latest update, which did nothing except nerf things and add additional annoyance to the game for anyone joining KDF, as if KDF doesn't already have few enough players that we need to annoy the **** out of those who still want in after they've already slogged through 25 levels of Fed.
Starbase Blockade. Starbase Defense. Starbase Alert. Starbase Incursion.
If someone is just going to sit at the start point, then you are already down a person. May as well get rid of them so they don't reap the rewards of your effort.
It's potentially exploitable, like any system, but the chances are extremely low of a coordinated troll assault taking out the one decent person on the team, since it would need to be unanimous.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Crying for rules? No, I'm asking for the cops to "serve and protect", which they promised me that they would do.
Not sure what you are saying, but there are more than those with Queues.
You rather we ignore the problem and let them continue to grief? Why not have a big sign that says, "Griefers Welcome, harass all you want"?
No Queues period. You grouped up and went on a mission as a team.
Nerf things, Cryptic broke them.
Cryptic claims how much they care about STO and the community, but when they break things, they just sweap it under the carpet and pretend nothing is wrong. Right now some STFs are completely unplayable and we have to wait a week for them to get fixed? That really doesn't sound like a good way to run a business.
Guess MMO companies are getting lazy in fixing things they broke, even TOR had this trouble. But if you go back to the Varent Days of Everquest, if there was a bug after a patch, it was fixed within 24 hours.
Suggestion: DON'T PUG events if you don't want these issues. Pick Up Grouping is a problem across all MMOs.
Personally though, with the amount of Marks they now give out for easy things like 75 per Doff Commendation Report missions; 50 for the Foundry wrapper mission and 5 for the under two minute Starbase dailies...
I really wonder why folks who want marks bother with the Fleet Events or Nukara any longer. As usual Cryptic over rewards for the simple stuff; and the mission and event content designed for the Fleet system gets used less, eventually leading the Cryptic data mining team to report there's no need for future mission/event content of this type.
Cryptic seems to discard any meaningful 'Risk vs Reward' metric soon after implementing any new system, and thn wonders why any mission content made to support it is underused.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I'm sorry, but I shouldn't be forced to avoid content because of a few individals who devote themselves to harassing others.
Ah yes, 75 marks for 10,000 CXP. Yeah that's a fair trade. Then spend the next few months grinding back to that level. :rolleyes:
If I had my way, Marks would be general reward. From Ensign all the way to VA in STFs. You do what you want to do, problem solved.
But knowing Cryptic, this new Rep system is for Season 7, is just going to be another boring grind. Which only can be done within the new zones. Which people would burn out within a month. Frankly, they are just making things worse with this method, due to it not being long term enterainment.
So your solution to the problem "Cryptic doesn't have enough people doing QA to catch all the serious bugs" is "...so let's give them less time for testing"?
I don't think that solution is going to have the desired effect.
I could imagine people "greifing" the Vote-Kick system. Imagine if a fleet is doing a "Fleet run" and doesn't have enough for a five-man. The fleet could pm everyone else to kick the guy right before the marks are awarded so only the fleetmates get Marks.
Why would they do that?? Besides trolling, no fleet would do that, it's not like they get more fleet marks or that persons share of marks.
I had posted my idea on how to counter that in an earlier thread that was inexplicably deleted. All that needs to be done is to have a timer after which kick voting is disabled. It would vary by event, but in timed things like Blockade, perhaps the option is only available for the first five of the fifteen minutes. Events where the time depends on the proficiency of the team would be a bit more tricky. In any case, the rest of the team can usually figure out within a couple minutes whether someone is a parasite and kick them. Once the option is disabled, there would be no potential for griefing. If for some reason a team decides to unjustifiably kick a person early, then they're down a player for no good reason, and hopefully to their own detriment. I suppose there is still the possibility of a parasite being active for the first couple minutes to keep up appearances until they're unkickable, but maybe most of them wouldn't even bother.
I'd name one fleet that is well-known and devoted, but unfortunately that's breaking the forum rules.
Where did I ever say "give them less time for testing"? :rolleyes:
But even as someone working for Cryptic, you must admit that the team really needs to do some major bug squashing. Because Khitomer becoming unplayable and the team not doing an emergency patch, has really got quite a bit of people miffed.
BTW, for thread note: Ignore doesn't work in preventing you from grouping with people you don't want to group with. I had that infamous fleet on ignore and still managed to group with one of their moocher members.
When you complained we have to wait a week for the fix. The fix has to be identified. Then it has to be coded. Before that coding can start, decisions have to be made about which version of the codebase to put it in, based on what else is impacted, because during the meantime they've been coding other fixes and features; just saying "add the fix to the code that existed as of that patch" doesn't take into account the possibility that other work already done would then need to be redone to account for this fix, so decisions would have to be made about whether to backport it and dual (or more than dual) maintain the code, or add it to the current branch being developed. If the latter, it would then be held up for EVERYTHING to get tested, not just this one change.
A lot of the errors that wind up in the game are probably due to attempts to shortcut those processes.
By the time we see a patch, the developers have been doing weeks of further coding. Depending on how much is impacted by the fix for this issue, it could be no big deal to dual-maintain it, or it could be a massive impact that brings all development to a halt while the codebase is synced. If the latter, the more likely decision would be to roll the fix into the next scheduled release of new features, which could be weeks away. It all depends on the magnitude of the fix and the number of people affected by the bug.
Since none of us has access to the code, we can't know what's impacted by the fix for this problem, and this is just one fix we're talking about.
A week for a fix? That's not unusual at all. That's about how long it takes to get an important but non-show-stopper fix in at my employer, too, and we've got more people working QA than STO has total employees.
Next a proposal. Assuming it's not set already, a deceased player should gain no xp, rewards, or drops while deceased. If you are deceased for a set period of time you are automaticly removed from the match. Perhaps instead of a vote kick option theres a vote kill option. It would only be activated 5 minutes after the start of an event. Once a vote is passed the player voted against explodes and is sent into a respawn with a 1 mintue countdown timer. If you haven't respawned by the time the timer finishes you are automaticaly kicked from the game. A player voted against has the option to end the vote but only if they are within 10 k of an enemy or a friendly. There is a 15 second timer on the vote so all players get a chance to vote and the target of the vote has tho opportunity to move into range if they were for instance just respawned. You can not initiate a vote against a deceased player or while deceased. The respawn is available instantly and is independant of any other respawn timers.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Lulz. Im sure there are other uses as well.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Find it somewhat funny that a moderator derailing a thread. :P
Anyhow, if they haven't found an answer for a bug, they could've easily rerolled the previous build until the bugs that were caused by that build was repaired. And given the amount of bugs from this weeks build, they should've done so.