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Addition to the dilithium exchange

therealfluffytherealfluffy Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Since the current incarnation of the dilithium exchange has been practically killed with the introduction of those massive dilithium sink starbase projects, how about adding fleet marks to the formula? I wouldn't mind selling some of my fleet marks for dilithium (or Zen for that matter). A third variable would make the market more dynamic and interesting and since many people seem to lack enough fleet marks (at least the people posting in this forum), hopefully it would add something positive to the game.

EDIT: When I think of it - why not allow any currency to be exchanged for any other currency on the exchange on a truly free market?
Post edited by therealfluffy on
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Comments

  • intrepidukintrepiduk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I totally agree, I recently left a fleet for reasons I won't discuss. Nevertheless, I have 100k fleet credits and some fleet marks that I have no need for, exchanging it to something else would be very useful for those who are not in fleets.
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Current rates on the exchange have made zen worthless. If the price of zen continues to fall, the c-store items will also need to be downwardly adjusted. Cryptic cannot run the c-store on a worthless currency.

    Minimum exchange rate per zen should now be adjusted to somewhere between 1,000 to 2,000 dilithium.

    Anything less than 1,000 dilithium will be similar to stealing.

    Zen is backed by real money. If real money cannot maintain its value, up against an artificial currency, there will be no reason for anyone to buy zen. Prices in the c-store will also look extremely over valued.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I'm ok with the idea of a fleetmark exchange, but for credits please, I don't need dilithium. :D
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    diogene0 wrote: »
    I'm ok with the idea of a fleetmark exchange, but for credits please, I don't need dilithium. :D
    Tier four and tier five will require less fleet marks and more dilithium. All those fleet store items will also require extensive dilithium. If Cryptic doesn't adjust the exchange values, players will not be able to afford fleet store items. Or, the price of fleet store items will need to be drastically reduced.

    Adding another currency to the exchange will only cripple the system.
  • tjexcimer500tjexcimer500 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Then there is the other side of the coin:
    Those not building bases are more than happy selling their dilithium for Zen at the current rates (and lower). This is how a "free" market works.
    Minimum exchange rate per zen should now be adjusted to somewhere between 1,000 to 2,000 dilithium. Anything less than 1,000 dilithium will be similar to stealing.
    Zen is backed by real money. If real money cannot maintain its value, up against an artificial currency, there will be no reason for anyone to buy zen.

    I'd guess that plenty of people are buying zen and converting it to dilithium to build their bases. 1000 dilithium per zen? Really? Before S6 it wasn't even 1/3 of that amount - so then by your statement we've all been stealing the entire year. Real money isn't even backed to maintain its value - that's why the cost of living increases usually more than your increase in pay.
    EDIT: When I think of it - why not allow any currency to be exchanged for any other currency on the exchange on a truly free market?

    Now we're talking!!!
    There are Four Lights... say no to ARC
    Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
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  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Then there is the other side of the coin:
    Those not building bases are more than happy selling their dilithium for Zen at the current rates (and lower). This is how a "free" market works.

    I'd guess that plenty of people are buying zen and converting it to dilithium to build their bases. 1000 dilithium per zen? Really? Before S6 it wasn't even 1/3 of that amount - so then by your statement we've all been stealing the entire year. Real money isn't even backed to maintain its value - that's why the cost of living increases usually more than your increase in pay.
    Star Trek: Online" is a video game. Unless there are mechanisms in place to protect the value of real money, people will have no substantial reason to use it to buy zen. If the value of the dollar has fallen, the price of c-store items should skyrocket to compensate.

    Cryptic should adjust the c-store prices upward, or they should adjust the exchange value per zen upward.

    One or the other has to happen.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    linyive wrote: »
    Star Trek: Online" is a video game. Unless there are mechanisms in place to protect the value of real money, people will have no substantial reason to use it to buy zen. If the value of the dollar is so low, the price of c-store items should skyrocket to compensate the loss.

    Well it seems that you're the only person in game having this concern. Most of us are enjoying the fact that our dilithium has more value now. And since the price of dil is increasing, it means that people are keep buying more ay after day, which means it's worth it for them. It's like a real stock exchange.

    If you don't like to buy zen then don't, I'm not sure Crypric is going to ruin the balances of the game for your very own issues. :)
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    diogene0 wrote: »
    Well it seems that you're the only person in game having this concern. Most of us are enjoying the fact that our dilithium has more value now. And since the price of dil is increasing, it means that people are keep buying more ay after day, which means it's worth it for them. It's like a real stock exchange.

    If you don't like to buy zen then don't, I'm not sure Crypric is going to ruin the balances of the game for your very own issues. :)
    I don't mind buying zen. I just want it to maintain its value. If the exchange doesn't get fixed, I may have to completely stop buying zen (or dilithium). Why spend real money on an in game currency that doesn't hold its value? Once the value of zen becomes worthless, outside of the c-store, I will see no more reason to invest. I have invested a substantial amount into zen. I don't want the currency to lose any value.
  • majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Wasn't this part of Cryptic's plan? To make more people buy Zen rather than grind dilithium for it. To me it's a rather smart business tactic, making Dilithium much more valuable than it has in the past. Means more people will fork out real money for Zen instead of using their dilithium to buy it from players who are selling their Stipend's.
    Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Wasn't this part of Cryptic's plan? To make more people buy Zen rather than grind dilithium for it. To me it's a rather smart business tactic, making Dilithium much more valuable than it has in the past. Means more people will fork out real money for Zen instead of using their dilithium to buy it from players who are selling their Stipend's.
    I think this system will have the opposite affect. Once more people realize what is happening, they will stop using zen to buy dilithium. Its just a mater of time. I have personally stopped buying dilithium. I went back to grinding dilithium, so I can save my zen for c-store purchases.
  • dudeman32569dudeman32569 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    If people do end up not buying dilithium with zen because of the price, dilithium sellers will start selling more dilithium for less zen just so they can make a sale at all. Prices fluctuate in a free market, that's how it works. WAD
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    If people do end up not buying dilithium with zen because of the price, dilithium sellers will start selling more dilithium for less zen just so they can make a sale at all. Prices fluctuate in a free market, that's how it works. WAD
    Once you start thinking video games are base upon real life, you also start to lose all sense of reality. Video games are based upon fantasy.
  • dudeman32569dudeman32569 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    linyive wrote: »
    Once you start thinking video games are base upon real life, you also start to lose all concept of reality. Video games are based upon fantasy.

    Yet the dilithium exchange is controlled entirely by real rules of supply and demand (with the exception of the imposed minimum and maximum prices), with the prices being set by the players (real people) that are buying/selling. Fancy that?
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Yet the dilithium exchange is controlled entirely by real rules of supply and demand (with the exception of the imposed minimum and maximum prices), with the prices being set by the players (real people) that are buying/selling. Fancy that?
    ....but, its not reality. Period. Cryptic should do something to preserve the value of zen, for it is backed by real life currency. Dilithium, fleet marks, and energy credits cannot be bought with actual money. Only zen can be bought directly. C-store items are bought through the use of a currency that is backed by real money.

    If you want to buy my zen, I want you to pay me its equivalent in dilithium

    Why?

    Dilithium cannot be used to buy c-store items.

    Dilithium cannot be bought directly with real money.

    Only zen can.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The value of Zen changes all the time. When the Exchange started it was around 120 Dilithium per CP. Then it jumped up to near 400. Now it's decreasing again. There's never been a fixed amount. If Cryptic were to set minimums then people would just scream price fixing.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • dudeman32569dudeman32569 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Funny, I don't recall ever claiming that a video game was reality. The fact is, when there is a market to exchange goods and currencies (yes, even virtual ones), the values that people choose to trade at will be based on what the buyer and seller deem they are worth. I know that if I can't sell dilithium at a certain price, I'll adjust my price accordingly until it does sell. Its simple economics that are at play here, even if it is a video game. However, as long as people are buying dilithium at the current rates, I am more than happy to supply them.
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  • cptvanorcptvanor Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    linyive wrote: »
    ....but, its not reality. Period.

    But it is reality. It's a currency market pure and simple. The fact that the currency is virtual doesn't change a single thing. Hell most people today in their every day life use much more virtual currency they they do physical cash. Just because it's currency in a video game doesn't change the fact that it's still a form of currency.

    Market forces are at play here, just like they are in every other currency market in the world. It's also not like other currency's don't fluctuate in value. Do you honestly believe a Dollar is worth the same today as it was 5 years ago, or 50?

    Also Zen unlike dollars has a somewhat controlled value. As long a the Z store is there, Zen will always have a outside control over value, because it will cost the same amount of zen to buy a Odyssey or respec, regardless of the ratio between Zen and Dilithium. Because it still costs $20 to buy a Odyssey.

    So in a way the value of Zen isn't changing, just the ration between Z and D. There's nothing Cryptic or PWE can do to change that, short of changing the amount of Dilithium in the game.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    EDIT: You are also mistaken if you think EC cannot be bought with real currency. It is against this game's EULA but it happens all the time.
    You can buy EC with real currency simply by buying Zen, using the Zen to buy Lockbox Keys, and then selling the Keys on the Exchange to get EC. There's nothing wrong with doing that at all. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    EDIT: You are also mistaken if you think EC cannot be bought with real currency. It is against this game's EULA but it happens all the time.

    It's not. It's what tradeable c-store items are for. And it's a lot safer than the goldsellers you can find anywhere.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
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  • dwhornetdwhornet Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Leave the market alone, Zen will eventually go back up when new stuff (Z-Store or season 7) is released. We currently just have a huge new dilithium sink in the game, and the market is adjusting to it.
  • chevaliertialyschevaliertialys Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    You keep insisting that Zen is backed by real money. This is false. A currency being "backed by" something means that it can be freely exchanged for that currency in both directions.. You can buy Zen for real money, but you cannot buy real money with Zen without violating the EULA. Zen has some characteristics of a currency in game, but it is not a real currency.

    There is no way to transfer Zen between players, so the the market of what Zen can purchase is limited to only things that one seller is offering (some items are transferable, but the vast majority are not and the transferable ones cannot be converted back to Zen) which is why Zen is much more akin to arcade tickets than the Euro.

    As has been pointed out, the beauty of a market is that it will self correct. Once dilithium is too expensive to buy, people will stop buying it and demand will decrease, resulting in a lower price. If you don't like the price, no one is forcing you to buy to or sell. You can hold your Zen until you are able to sell it at a price you think is fair.
  • captainbradycaptainbrady Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Well as an actual paying member of this game, I will not sell a single zen point for any less than 200 dilithium. Sorry, I'll spend my money on store items or whatever. I furthermore refuse to but additional zen to sink into the base project and I founded the fleet. Why? Because I'm not trying to impress some random leech who wants to free load off of my fleet. My fleet's base is for our entertainment only, it's not some recruiting tool. Besides we're getting on fine with our 8000 each ration and we'll soon have everything completed in Tier II. In any case we'll get it done when we get it done and it will not interrupt our gameplay. Those of you who are sinking tons or real world currency into this game so that someday dilithium can be worth more than real money, and so you can have the small glory of bragging to others are:

    1) foolish and
    2) being used by both cryptic and bums who want something in this game for nothing.

    For example when some fool's first question when joining my fleet is "what's your base at?" that person can't join my fleet for a trillion ec. Everyone else should think of it likewise. If you're spending real world money to entice some random free loader to join your fleet is this the type of person you want? No I think not. I'm not going to be used by cryptic or f2p freeloaders.
  • captainbradycaptainbrady Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Yet the dilithium exchange is controlled entirely by real rules of supply and demand (with the exception of the imposed minimum and maximum prices), with the prices being set by the players (real people) that are buying/selling. Fancy that?

    i have my doubts. I suspect that the system cryptic has in place is easily manipulated. This isn't a real currency exchange where actual US dollars are traded for Yen, Euros etc.
  • cptvanorcptvanor Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I will not sell a single zen point for any less than 200 dilithium.

    I furthermore refuse to but additional zen to sink into the base project and I founded the fleet.

    Ok. If that's the way you feel, then do or don't do what ever you feel is right.

    Those of you who are sinking tons or real world currency into this game so that someday dilithium can be worth more than real money, and so you can have the small glory of bragging to others are.[/QUOTE]

    I doubt anyone is speculating on the Zen market, figuring that some day they'll be able to cash in their Zen for Cash...

    I also doubt that many are spending real money to upgrade their SB solely for the sake of bragging rights. Although if they are, it's their money and doing so is no more foolish then spending money many other things people do for the sake of prestige.
  • cptvanorcptvanor Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    This isn't a real currency exchange where actual US dollars are traded for Yen, Euros etc.

    You honestly think that real currency exchange and speculation isn't manipulated?
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    linyive wrote: »
    Star Trek: Online" is a video game. Unless there are mechanisms in place to protect the value of real money, people will have no substantial reason to use it to buy zen. If the value of the dollar has fallen, the price of c-store items should skyrocket to compensate.

    Cryptic should adjust the c-store prices upward, or they should adjust the exchange value per zen upward.

    One or the other has to happen.

    If Cryptic adjusts the c-store prices upward while maintaining the trend of one time unlocks, I will be buying less zen, not more. I could care less about the Dilithium exchange rate.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
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