From what I'm seeing in these replies, I'm getting the feeling that people are assuming ALL doff's don't give any Dil, CXP or anything now... when the patch notes only said the Fleet doffs don't give those out.
Or did I misread that?
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
We can no longer turn unwanted ones in for dilithium or recruitment CXP
We cannot slot them in fleet missions.
The dilithium exploit explaination is false as dilithium is still time-gated and most likely the dilithium collected from these DOFFs would be used in Fleet Mission provisioning (which is also time gated). STO has enough safeguards in place.
Slotting them in fleet missions as an exploit is also false because the said mission is time gated, you have to get the appropriate DOFFs, and it is unsustainable.
Now I realize this was an unintended consequence but it actually turned out to be a positive consequence for the Fleet Advancement system. This actually served as a great purpose for Fleet Credits (which are fairly worthless, lets be honest), especially at lower tiers. There was something to spend them on, espcially for people who have already amassed hundreds of thousands. Stop saddling players with even more grinding. To borrow from Stephen King and adapt, "All grind and no play makes STO a very boring game". As it is, most people's playtime is now focused solely on the Starbase.
From a pure development and player perspective, if these Fleet DOFFs go live with these new restrictions then what is the purpose of having anything lower than Very Rare? It behooves the players not to buy anything other than Very Rares (perhaps Rares) because they serve a minimal purpose now. Keeping them as-is serves a larger purpose. Why would we even bother buying anything from Common - Rare? More to the point, why was anything less than Very Rare developed? Changing this now actually translates to a waste of time developing - you had to take time to develope them, hook them up, and now time to change them. It is exactly this type of development that is hurting the progress of this game.
Now let me ask you guys (devs) this since it appears this whole thing was not thought through very well. How do players distinguish between these DOFFs which are the "Cannots" and the DOFFs which they can: turn into dilithium, recruitment CXP, and use for fleet slotting? You have now created an additional problem which now creates a need for even more developer time to be wasted on a distinction. In addition, just wait until the GMs and Bug tickets start rolling in, so now that is even more staff time wasted.
It is obvious someone's priorities are in the wrong place and they panicked without thinking rationally and made a knee-jerk decision (not good in any MMO especially a struggling one). You do realize that to buy one you need 500 FCs which = 500 dilithium. If you convert them you only get 75 dilithium. That is an 85% loss in the player's resources. As it is, it is not sustainable and most likely this dilithium is exhausted in the system. Even if this dilithium enters the zen market you stand to lose money by restricting it. If that fleet DOFF dilithium is used to purchases Zen points, as more dilithium enters the system Zen prices drop, meaning you get less dilithium for your zen. The weaker zen becomes, the more players will need to buy to achieve their desired amount of dilithium (the lower the exchange rate the more money you make, same for the higher).
I don't know. I think this one was quite silly and a waste of time for no reason.
WOW! I agree with this completely, I will also return to being a silver player if this gets pushed to holodeck. This is nuts!
From what I'm seeing in these replies, I'm getting the feeling that people are assuming ALL doff's don't give any Dil, CXP or anything now... when the patch notes only said the Fleet doffs don't give those out.
Or did I misread that?
You are misreading that. I am not assuming all doffs are quitting to give dil or cxp on dismissal. How you came to the conclusion that any of us are thinking that from reading the posts here that almost universally say FLEET DOFFS is a little surprising.
What we are saying (most of us anyway) is that we are meh with the fleet doffs not giving dil or csp when dismissed (think its dumb, but we can live with it). What is not ok is not being able to contribute fleet doffs to fleet projects. What else is not ok is not being able to tell a fleet doff from a non-fleet doff because both can posted to the exchange, but I only want to buy DOFFS i can use on projects. See the problem?
You are misreading that. I am not assuming all doffs are quitting to give dil or cxp on dismissal. How you came to the conclusion that any of us are thinking that from reading the posts here that almost universally say FLEET DOFFS is a little surprising.
What we are saying (most of us anyway) is that we are meh with the fleet doffs not giving dil or csp when dismissed (think its dumb, but we can live with it). What is not ok is not being able to contribute fleet doffs to fleet projects. What else is not ok is not being able to tell a fleet doff from a non-fleet doff because both can posted to the exchange, but I only want to buy DOFFS i can use on projects. See the problem?
I see and understand the problem.
But I got confused on a few of the reaction details. Now I know I read it wrong, and apologize
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
From a pure development and player perspective, if these Fleet DOFFs go live with these new restrictions then what is the purpose of having anything lower than Very Rare? It behooves the players not to buy anything other than Very Rares (perhaps Rares) because they serve a minimal purpose now. Keeping them as-is serves a larger purpose. Why would we even bother buying anything from Common - Rare? More to the point, why was anything less than Very Rare developed? Changing this now actually translates to a waste of time developing - you had to take time to develope them, hook them up, and now time to change them. It is exactly this type of development that is hurting the progress of this game.
Now let me ask you guys (devs) this since it appears this whole thing was not thought through very well. How do players distinguish between these DOFFs which are the "Cannots" and the DOFFs which they can: turn into dilithium, recruitment CXP, and use for fleet slotting? You have now created an additional problem which now creates a need for even more developer time to be wasted on a distinction. In addition, just wait until the GMs and Bug tickets start rolling in, so now that is even more staff time wasted.
Well the release notes for this patch were posted, and it dosent appear that they are going to stop allowing you to contribute fleet doffs to projects... so thats awesome!
Well the release notes for this patch were posted, and it dosent appear that they are going to stop allowing you to contribute fleet doffs to projects... so thats awesome!
Yes, the change isn't in tomorrow's patch notes, just like it isn't in the Tribble patch notes!
The last four or five Tribble patch notes made no mention of this ever being implemented, hence the bug reports. As the Holodeck patch notes are, more often than not, just a copy and paste I'm not as optimistic as you cameltoe02.
since its been raged about all day in here and other threads, and the only dev response was the "working as intended" gem, I am guessing its going to hit Holodeck tomorrow. I am also guessing that immediately after it hits holodeck tomorrow, the forums are going to burn.
The forums...
The forums.....
The forums are on fire.....
is it additionally intended that DOFFs you purchase from the DOFF rewards vendor (the lt on ESD) can not be donated? Because I was trying to use a green trader and it wouldn't let me use the one that I bought with Dil from there.
The Doffs from Ferra are bound. You can not donate any bound doffs to starbases. You also can't trade in bound ones. There are very few ways to get rid of bound doffs besides dismissing them.
Am I getting it right that in a couple days, you'll be able to buy doffs off the exchange that can't be contributed to fleet projects and don't reward dil. and recruitment cxp when dismissed? And still looking exactly the same as "normal" doffs?
Because that would be very, very wrong. It's like buying a car without even knowing if it has an engine! Just what exactly is one supposed to do with such doffs then resell them (god forbid one binds them in active duty).
Either make those fleet doffs somehow distinct, or make them bound on pickup so they can never actually see the exchange.
I agree entirely with this assessment.
Optimally, of course, would be allowing the Fleet doffs to be contributed to fleet projects; I cannot imagine why Cryptic would prohibit them from being contributed!
You have to admit its an awesome response: "working as intended"
Its like when a Predator drone drops a hellfire on a aftgan village - and they ask the control guys at the CIA what when wrong : "working as intended"
or
when the US election with Florida's "new" electontic voting system displays that 15,000 votes were for Romney in the district - but the are only 1500 eligable voters - what's up? "working as intended"
I only tested beam banks against NPC but like you I could not get them working. Could we also please get a responce about fleet mines being broken and some types missing?
In short, the chat seems to create strange relations between muted players. It's more about how many are muted and what's their online/offline status, rather then how long they have been muted to begin with.
I'm sure in all these pages somebody's said it dozens of times, but SERIOUSLY?
Let's go back a bit to when these were put in. Why were they put in? Rather, why were we TOLD it was being put in? Because of the high requirement of duty officers for starbase progression and the difficulty of generating them by normal recruitment.
So the reason they were put in is now removed. Frankly, they don't need to exist anymore, standard recruitment and the grinder are more than sufficient for normal needs.
this is working as intended, so shut up and eat stuff .
The intention is wrong then. What is the point of white doffs that cannot be used for the very purposes white doffs are used for: grind/dismiss/feed to sb projects?
And please don't give the me the "people with a lot of credits will buy a lot of useful doffs to be sold/used on exchange". As fleet credits don't come out of thin air, people had to grind for them or spend other types of resources.
Ah gosh... Why am I still trying to talk some sense into those people...
That seems a bit strange. As long as you make sure they cost more FC then any FC you'dget for contributing gthem; I don't see the logicin blocking their use in other Fleet projects.
(And if you wondwer why someone might buy a Fleet Doff to advance a project, yet effectively take a 'loss' in Fleet Credits - hey, sometimes you just want to get a Fleet Project finished to get what it supoplies to the Fleet; and get the next one up.)
I wish the STO Dev team woulsd reconsider the decision to have Fleet Doffs not be usable for Projects; and as long as they fix any possible fleet credit exploits, there wouldn't be any issue to allowing it that I can see.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
There's only two possibilities: you are incorrect and this is actually bugged, or the developers spent a lot of time designing a system to generate common doffs and make fleet credits more useful but completely missed the point by making them completely useless for starbase projects (and without noting it in the release notes, assuring that there's going to be a ton of threads soon and bug reports filed).
As others have noted, in a way these are even worse than the Ferra doffs because even though these cannot be dismissed for dilithium or used in projects, these are unbound and will be exploited on the exchange. When people are paying hundreds of thousands for a single common duty officer, they're going to be mighty angry when they can't even use them for the purpose that the player intended (starbase projects).
If it truly is working as intended, I am disheartened to see that Cryptic did not listen to the player community on this, let the doff problem grow even bigger as more fleets hit higher tiers, and have set themselves up for a lot of annoyed customers who are only going to flare up the forums, file bug reports, rip off other users on the exchange, or leave the game in frustration.
As others have also mentioned, there is NO exploit possible from being able to contribute doffs to starbases. You make less Fleet Credits than you spent on the doffs (just like your fleet mark boost that goes live with this patch) and the dilithium you would have gotten from dismissing is less than you would have gotten for an appropriate level of Fleet Credits. If a player is getting less back than he spends, it cannot be an exploit.
Zeronius, at least give us the dignity of explaining your "working as intended" comment. You are able to reply many times to things like silencing in-chat (which is a small problem, comparatively) to the now entirely erroneous concept of allowing gimped DoFFs into the wild (read: exchange)
Zeronius, at least give us the dignity of explaining your "working as intended" comment. You are able to reply many times to things like silencing in-chat (which is a small problem, comparatively) to the now entirely erroneous concept of allowing gimped DoFFs into the wild (read: exchange)
Even a visorless Geordi could see that.....
continued silence from Zero on this matter only implies that things are working as intended.
pppSTF is one of them... I was on mute for less than a day when they two admins tried to unmute me, to no avail. We have tried to tinker with log/relogs, kick/invite and still didn't work. If you need someone for a guinea pig, I will most happily volunteer...
Yep, less than 24 hours and no ability to unmute.
I submitted multiple bug reports, and many others have submitted bug reports on this issue.
We've been given boilerplate responses that amount "sorry, nothing we can do for you."
So while the SB DOFF changes are majorly frustrating and poorly conceived - I'm glad this issue at least finally has a bit of attention.
I'll send an in game e-mail to farktoid with details.
Comments
Or did I misread that?
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
WOW! I agree with this completely, I will also return to being a silver player if this gets pushed to holodeck. This is nuts!
You are misreading that. I am not assuming all doffs are quitting to give dil or cxp on dismissal. How you came to the conclusion that any of us are thinking that from reading the posts here that almost universally say FLEET DOFFS is a little surprising.
What we are saying (most of us anyway) is that we are meh with the fleet doffs not giving dil or csp when dismissed (think its dumb, but we can live with it). What is not ok is not being able to contribute fleet doffs to fleet projects. What else is not ok is not being able to tell a fleet doff from a non-fleet doff because both can posted to the exchange, but I only want to buy DOFFS i can use on projects. See the problem?
But I got confused on a few of the reaction details. Now I know I read it wrong, and apologize
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
No, the length of time doesn't seem to have any effect. I've muted someone, and almost immediately tried to unmute them, with no success.
And I'm sure you know which channel I'm referring to, right?
Lost for words.
commodoreshrvk summed up my feelings on this quite well, particularly:
Yes, the change isn't in tomorrow's patch notes, just like it isn't in the Tribble patch notes!
Hmm.
The forums...
The forums.....
The forums are on fire.....
Lol are you even hearing what you're saying?
The Doffs from Ferra are bound. You can not donate any bound doffs to starbases. You also can't trade in bound ones. There are very few ways to get rid of bound doffs besides dismissing them.
Optimally, of course, would be allowing the Fleet doffs to be contributed to fleet projects; I cannot imagine why Cryptic would prohibit them from being contributed!
Sorry, misinterpreted a post.
I completed testing on Tribble, the proc is still not working.
Here is a FRAPS capture of 3 beams working over my Karfi, the last shield direction never gets a proc the whole time.
http://hendric.smugmug.com/Other/Video-Games/21921663_M52d4H#!i=2042013759&k=Gpcg9b9&lb=1&s=A
(tested multiple times, still no proc. The beam arrays are still reporting as Tetryon beam arrays in the damage window.)
Its like when a Predator drone drops a hellfire on a aftgan village - and they ask the control guys at the CIA what when wrong : "working as intended"
or
when the US election with Florida's "new" electontic voting system displays that 15,000 votes were for Romney in the district - but the are only 1500 eligable voters - what's up? "working as intended"
I love it!
http://hendric.smugmug.com/Other/Video-Games/21921663_M52d4H#!i=2042114564&k=2nfQDnV&lb=1&s=A
I only tested beam banks against NPC but like you I could not get them working. Could we also please get a responce about fleet mines being broken and some types missing?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=5406831&postcount=11
In short, the chat seems to create strange relations between muted players. It's more about how many are muted and what's their online/offline status, rather then how long they have been muted to begin with.
Thank you. i was hoping that was not a bug.
I'm sure in all these pages somebody's said it dozens of times, but SERIOUSLY?
Let's go back a bit to when these were put in. Why were they put in? Rather, why were we TOLD it was being put in? Because of the high requirement of duty officers for starbase progression and the difficulty of generating them by normal recruitment.
So the reason they were put in is now removed. Frankly, they don't need to exist anymore, standard recruitment and the grinder are more than sufficient for normal needs.
this is working as intended, so shut up and eat stuff .
The intention is wrong then. What is the point of white doffs that cannot be used for the very purposes white doffs are used for: grind/dismiss/feed to sb projects?
And please don't give the me the "people with a lot of credits will buy a lot of useful doffs to be sold/used on exchange". As fleet credits don't come out of thin air, people had to grind for them or spend other types of resources.
Ah gosh... Why am I still trying to talk some sense into those people...
That seems a bit strange. As long as you make sure they cost more FC then any FC you'dget for contributing gthem; I don't see the logicin blocking their use in other Fleet projects.
(And if you wondwer why someone might buy a Fleet Doff to advance a project, yet effectively take a 'loss' in Fleet Credits - hey, sometimes you just want to get a Fleet Project finished to get what it supoplies to the Fleet; and get the next one up.)
I wish the STO Dev team woulsd reconsider the decision to have Fleet Doffs not be usable for Projects; and as long as they fix any possible fleet credit exploits, there wouldn't be any issue to allowing it that I can see.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
There's only two possibilities: you are incorrect and this is actually bugged, or the developers spent a lot of time designing a system to generate common doffs and make fleet credits more useful but completely missed the point by making them completely useless for starbase projects (and without noting it in the release notes, assuring that there's going to be a ton of threads soon and bug reports filed).
As others have noted, in a way these are even worse than the Ferra doffs because even though these cannot be dismissed for dilithium or used in projects, these are unbound and will be exploited on the exchange. When people are paying hundreds of thousands for a single common duty officer, they're going to be mighty angry when they can't even use them for the purpose that the player intended (starbase projects).
If it truly is working as intended, I am disheartened to see that Cryptic did not listen to the player community on this, let the doff problem grow even bigger as more fleets hit higher tiers, and have set themselves up for a lot of annoyed customers who are only going to flare up the forums, file bug reports, rip off other users on the exchange, or leave the game in frustration.
As others have also mentioned, there is NO exploit possible from being able to contribute doffs to starbases. You make less Fleet Credits than you spent on the doffs (just like your fleet mark boost that goes live with this patch) and the dilithium you would have gotten from dismissing is less than you would have gotten for an appropriate level of Fleet Credits. If a player is getting less back than he spends, it cannot be an exploit.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Even a visorless Geordi could see that.....
continued silence from Zero on this matter only implies that things are working as intended.
*shakes fist* Daaaamn youuuuuuu!!!!!!
Don't blame me, man. Not my fault its all working as intended.
somehow im not surprised.
why isnt this in the patch notes ANYWHERE!?
you guys suck. really. you do.
Yep, less than 24 hours and no ability to unmute.
I submitted multiple bug reports, and many others have submitted bug reports on this issue.
We've been given boilerplate responses that amount "sorry, nothing we can do for you."
So while the SB DOFF changes are majorly frustrating and poorly conceived - I'm glad this issue at least finally has a bit of attention.
I'll send an in game e-mail to farktoid with details.