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Improvements to the Bird of Prey design
travelingmaster
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I'm a reasonably skilled BoP pilot (and occasional braggart) who looks forward to possibly using stronger BoPs down the road (maybe the Hoh'sus?). Since BoPs are a favorite subject of mine, I figured I would create a thread specifically about BoPs, and how they could be reasonably improved in order to remain relevant.
To start things off, I would say go with a 4th tac console (same as the Hoh'sus) AND an extra BOFF skill slot (like what the Ning'tao has). . .with the same hull strength and maneuverability as either the Hegh'ta or B'Rel Retro. MAYBE add in a 3rd weapon slot to the rear. None of this 'add a tac slot but remove several k hullpoints/some shield modifier', which results in a marginal, overpriced 'improvement'.
I do not feel this would make the Bird of Prey class 'overpowered', especially not when compared to some Federation escorts/destroyers and the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. It would simply keep the BoP up to date.
What do you all think? Try to restrict discussion to BoPs. . .that's what I made this thread for :P
EDIT: As some might notice, I'm not pleased with the 'fleet' Birds of Prey being offered.
To start things off, I would say go with a 4th tac console (same as the Hoh'sus) AND an extra BOFF skill slot (like what the Ning'tao has). . .with the same hull strength and maneuverability as either the Hegh'ta or B'Rel Retro. MAYBE add in a 3rd weapon slot to the rear. None of this 'add a tac slot but remove several k hullpoints/some shield modifier', which results in a marginal, overpriced 'improvement'.
I do not feel this would make the Bird of Prey class 'overpowered', especially not when compared to some Federation escorts/destroyers and the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. It would simply keep the BoP up to date.
What do you all think? Try to restrict discussion to BoPs. . .that's what I made this thread for :P
EDIT: As some might notice, I'm not pleased with the 'fleet' Birds of Prey being offered.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Post edited by travelingmaster on
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Torps are great for bop killin.
So are tractor beams, VMs, PSWs. Try them sometime.
Do you happen to fly a Danube? :P
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
basically you want the best attributes of the fed escorts with a battle cloak. Basically.
Got it. Totally fair. You have such an awesome grasp of balance. Seriously, how come more people can't think like you?:rolleyes:
Real Join Date: Oct. 2009
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
it looks like your coming from the perspective that the bop is overpowered, which is LAUGHABLE. just because a bop users styles on you, doesn't mean its overpowered. your the one who isnt skilled enough to properly grasp the nuances of balance. in every category the bop gives something substantial up, the ship their using isn't even at the same level as any escort
any of its best station combos are already recreated on exclusively federation escorts, each of which have more weapons, more hitpoints, sometimes as much maneuverability, and more stations. oh and the battle cloak, ya that makes such a difference. :rolleyes: i cant wait till feds get battle cloak, it will get them killed more then it will help them.
KBF CO
We are the Dead
join date Aug 2008
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
when did I say the BOP was overpowered? I'm just saying its a little insane to basically want a fed escort copy with a huge advantage (battle cloak) and no trade offs. And Sorry, if you think thats "fair" in any capacity, your just another one of those human-wishing-they-were-klingon star trek con goers with nothing better to do then troll STO droning about how much better klingons are then everyone. There. Its been said. Thats my perspective.
Real Join Date: Oct. 2009
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
In case you didn't know, his main is a fed. So he's talking purely from the perspective of what he thinks should be ballanced. Because the bop right now is a piece of TRIBBLE. And it is an iconic Klingon ship, that should get some more love to be on pair with the new fleet escorts.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
starwrathforever, bud, seriously. You know deep down that the BOP is weakly unbalanced currently. To say otherwise is you being an ostrich that sticks his head in the ground when danger is near. The Federation escorts have way better stats. What are you not understanding in the figures that you are seeing when you look at the ships. Are you seriously basing your entire viewpoint on the battlecloak?
No like EVERY KDF player, we ask for and deserve parity in ships. The BOP's have not received due attention. The Feds keep to their tired old argument about battle cloak because they have nothing else as an excuse.
Before you bemoan another, consider the equal assumption you have based your argument on, when looking toward the Escort-Carrier, and MVAE, and the host of equally impressive Fed escorts. "So you basically have the best attributes of an escort..."
Also, why should the BOP not have these attributes? Just because? The battle cloak and universals? Hardly seems like a reason to me. And if it is a reason, why is the BOP, the ONLY ship in the game that has sacrificed so much for that? The escort-carrier gave up nothing. The MVAE got beefed up, and I don't see it loosing anything. And what about the Defiant and the other escort that got 5 TAC consoles? What sacrifices did those ship have to make? Looking at the former stats of those ships, very little, if not outright nothing. And YET, in spite of all the potential of these ships, there are STILL feds about demanding that the Defiant gets the battle cloak!!! Now whose about grasping balance...
The rest of the ships have evolved. ITS time for the BOP to evolve as well.
Oh, star knows it allright, he's just annoyed. Lol. Like most bop haters from Kerrat. They should go in a bop and than waste their hate about bop on forums
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
I know, but OZZIE's my favourite TAC, and I do care for him dearly (thats for you starwrathy
your noob is showing, every time you bring up battle cloak. apparently you don't know the difference between crazed RPers and skilled players. im only 1 of those things. don't make me start implying you have feminine hygiene issues, thats what did in the last thread.
all i saw asked for was a 'copy' of a fed escort minus enhanced hitpoints and shields. the bop would still have to get its kill quick or bug out, it still wouldn't be durable enough to do anything less. the defense creep in this game makes ships twice as durable as they were since the snix ability overhaul, the bops offense and unique station combinations were enough back then to be as or more dangerous then a normal escorts purely weapons damage. since then we have mk XII weapons, acc mods being king of bop swating, every killer bop combination possibility being nerfed into ineffectiveness, or theres an actual full blooded escort that can do it too, and do it wile being a lot more durable.
battle cloak is NOT worth giveing up a single hitpoint for. lets review
1 cloaking during combat, in range of people shooting at you
- good luck not dieing almost instantly when your shields go down. every single time you survive doing this you could have just as easily evasived away, and would have proboly taken less damage doing that.
2 cloaking when your out of range
- handy, but if your doing a full engine power evasive, your already safe, only you get to cloak a little sooner then you would verses a normal cloak
3 your impulse mod is so high, almost nothing can catch up to you as long as your useing a hyper engine
- at that point a cloak isnt even needed, fed escorts some how get by without any cloak
4 positioning for attack
- any cloak will do here. the bop especially NEEDS this, its to fragile to fly into combat out in the open, and its inferior tactical abilities need every single advantage they can get to have a real impact or get a kill
whats the battle cloak worth? not a damn thing. theres no reason why every cloak shouldn't be a battle cloak. i want defiant and galaxy Xs to get them, like i said it will get them killed more then help them.
DDIS drives me nuts at times. And I'm not even sure exactly about all this. But for sure battle cloak isn't so easily worth all that some people, some, seem to think it is. And the new BOP's are trash.
And really, as long as he keeps punching you bop haters in the ***, I'm backing him up all the way.
-Vortax-
+1 /10 char.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
The disparity of the stats between BoPs and Escorts has been addressed elsewhere in detail. Let me just say that adding a 4th tac console and another Boff skillslot would NOT even the odds between a BoP and a Fed escort.
The escorts have more hull and likely more shield modifier. Some will have 5 tac consoles. With proper structuring, they can be nearly as maneuverable as a BoP (especially the Defiant). Also, I said the 3rd aft weapon slot would be a 'maybe'. In my eyes, it's not a deal-breaker. . .because it would just mean a 3rd turret to me.
Also, it's not my fault you don't know how to fight BoPs properly. I've come across players who know how, and they show you just how weak the BoP is. The only advantage the BoP has right now is the advantage of surprise and the ability to run away. That's it. It's outclassed in nearly every other aspect. . .the turn rate isn't even that much better, when up against skilled players.
thanks i think, not trying to drive anyone nuts, but i think everything i said is plane for anyone to see, as long as they can survive a bop attack 90% of the time. its in your bop vids too, what im seeing. you can make short work of newbs with it, but even a mediocre defense from a competition player is enough to force a retreat. the bops main objective is to be the pure spike damage that finishes someone off whos already under attack, wile an escort would want to go for high constant damage as well as spike because he can stay in the fight longer and has so many built in tac stations. PSW stun then spikeing, tric bombing, CPB setting up a trop strike, chain scrambling, and everything else i used to fall victim too are things a bop can no longer do, the nerfs have taken those options away from it.
someones got to set um strait till mav gets back, if he even bothers coming back
Is there any other Klingon Capt. who also feels BoP's are irrelivent ? I starter on BoP's and after learning how easy it is to yank them outta cloak decided the paper tiger isn't something that should be in a serious battle unless I forgot to take my meds that day.
They're scout ships (destroyers) for %^#@'s sake, not battleships.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
That is their only advantage?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
With the state of the game NOW, yes, it's the only advantage(edit: and only IF that can be called an advantage).
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
When was the last time you went up against a BoP swarm?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Lots of times in kvk.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
As far as I'm concerned. . .yeah, that's the only advantage the BoP has in a fight.
Also, nowhere did I say I wanted BoPs to be a Fed escort. The modifications I mentioned still wouldn't make the BoP the equal of a Fed escort, because they'd have less hull and probably slightly less shield modifier.
Also, it's been explained to you REPEATEDLY that the Battlecloak is NOT anything special. It offers an advantage in running away, that's it (and only when used properly). Please stop refusing to learn/pay attention when people correct your inaccurate opinions.
You have brought this 'argument' up before, and it's been debunked. Please stop making yourself look stupid, you're a better player than that. I've fought you, and I know.
And also, im not asking when was your last time you Flew a bop, I'm asking if you have ever flown one.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
travel from your previous posts it seems like you want to increase the BoPs damage/damage console addition.
So this is just to reinforce the whole Ima Shoot you and run thing everyone is crying "OMG Bops are soo weak..... they are only good for shooting and running......................... please make them better at shooting and running" and then also reinforces my previous statements ( in another thread ) where I clearly stated that if you buff BoPs further, that they will continue doing exactly the same and nothing you do to the BoP will change how they are being used as long as battle cloak exists.
and don't give me that "oh you should learn" It isn't about education, it is about disagreeing with your opinions. and I have seen a fair amount of inaccurate comments like "yeah you can only use battle cloak outside of battle, if you use battlecloak in battle you are as good as dead"
Clearly there is a lack of experience of people with BoPs in this thread, and people that have used BoPs correctly.
Just an FYI simply having a few people say the same thing, doesn't make that same thing correct.
No? I don't fly them? I fight them, every single day, for the last 200 days ( a long break from the game before that ) ? I know what they can do, how weak they are and whether or not battlecloak helps them enough.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
R.I.P