An ensign Uslot and small increase in shielding strength would make the BoP up to just under par with vessel changes in the game since the fleet versions arrived and raised the bar.
I'm okay with that, certainly beats the "Give them a 2nd commander slot, 7th weapon, 5 tact slots and 30k hull" posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueprom3theus
And also, im not asking when was your last time you Flew a bop, I'm asking if you have ever flown one.
No? I don't fly them? I fight them, every single day, for the last 200 days ( a long break from the game before that ) ? I know what they can do, how weak they are and whether or not battlecloak helps them enough.
.
Mew, do yourself a favor and fly one, you'll see ts not as good as you think. In fact, 1.5 yrs ago when I made my first kling, I did that to understand the race and to be able to kick klings butts. But I end up staying on red race. But not bc bop is so awesome as you think, lol. I stopped playing bop few months ago bc of its squishiness.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
travel from your previous posts it seems like you want to increase the BoPs damage/damage console addition.
So this is just to reinforce the whole Ima Shoot you and run thing everyone is crying "OMG Bops are soo weak..... they are only good for shooting and running......................... please make them better at shooting and running" and then also reinforces my previous statements ( in another thread ) where I clearly stated that if you buff BoPs further, that they will continue doing exactly the same and nothing you do to the BoP will change how they are being used as long as battle cloak exists.
id just like to say this is the bops purpose, and it should continue to be. people complaining that they are doing what they are supposed to are just mad they gettin styled on. i dont think anyone here wants to change its role to something else, and none of the proposed changes would. on a bop, in every category of things that would help it do its job better, there is a -1, compared to any escort. except for the battlecloak that is overrated.
and don't give me that "oh you should learn" It isn't about education, it is about disagreeing with your opinions. and I have seen a fair amount of inaccurate comments like "yeah you can only use battle cloak outside of battle, if you use battlecloak in battle you are as good as dead"
Clearly there is a lack of experience of people with BoPs in this thread, and people that have used BoPs correctly.
Just an FYI simply having a few people say the same thing, doesn't make that same thing correct.
i cant remember the last time a bop survived attacking me alone, and then tryed to battle cloak to get away and not instead evasive away. so ya. bops equal free kills to me, they don't stand a chance. all they can hope to do is pop newbs and kick people wile they are down. your resistance to accepting the math behind a bops disadvantage is admirable, but pretty pointless. this is the popular opinion for good reason.
I'm okay with that, certainly beats the "Give them a 2nd commander slot, 7th weapon, 5 tact slots and 30k hull" posts.
no body has proposed doing all that at once. with 2 commander stations it still wouldn't be able to leverage more exotic alpha strikes like it used to be able to before science was nerfed to the ground. a 7th weapon slot is an extra turret. big deal. 5 tac slots or 30k hull is absurd though, if people suggested that they proboly weren't being serious. 5 tactical consoles on any ship is a sin committed by geco, and with escort hull and shields the bop would just be an escort
I'm okay with that, certainly beats the "Give them a 2nd commander slot, 7th weapon, 5 tact slots and 30k hull" posts.
Now you're exaggerating what I mentioned. I didn't say '2nd commander slot', I said 'another BOFF skillslot', and then mentioned the effing Ning'tao, which implies an LTC slot. Most of what I mentioned basically just involves melding the two fleet BoPs into a single BoP, which is what Cryptic should've done to begin with. I didn't mention increased hullstrength, and neither did anyone else. The 3rd rear weapon slot is ultimately not that important in the grand scheme of things, and wouldn't do a damn thing to unbalance things unless someone carried a tricobalt mine launcher in it. That's why I said 'maybe'.
Stop misrepresenting what I and others have suggested, and stick with reality.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
travel from your previous posts it seems like you want to increase the BoPs damage/damage console addition.
So this is just to reinforce the whole Ima Shoot you and run thing everyone is crying "OMG Bops are soo weak..... they are only good for shooting and running......................... please make them better at shooting and running" and then also reinforces my previous statements ( in another thread ) where I clearly stated that if you buff BoPs further, that they will continue doing exactly the same and nothing you do to the BoP will change how they are being used as long as battle cloak exists.
and don't give me that "oh you should learn" It isn't about education, it is about disagreeing with your opinions. and I have seen a fair amount of inaccurate comments like "yeah you can only use battle cloak outside of battle, if you use battlecloak in battle you are as good as dead"
Clearly there is a lack of experience of people with BoPs in this thread, and people that have used BoPs correctly.
Just an FYI simply having a few people say the same thing, doesn't make that same thing correct.
No? I don't fly them? I fight them, every single day, for the last 200 days ( a long break from the game before that ) ? I know what they can do, how weak they are and whether or not battlecloak helps them enough.
I don't particularly care if we're shooting and running, when it comes down to it. That's how the BoP was designed to be, and I don't really contest that. The addition of the tac slot and upgrading a LT to LTC wouldn't change this, you're right. What it WOULD do is enable a BoP to start doing what it's supposed to do. . .ambush and destroy an enemy with a precisely timed strike (which is a maneuver that requires a certain degree of skill, timing, and patience). Anytime I try doing that in a Hegh'ta (with Mk XII anti-borg fore weapons and torp spread) with alpha and fire-at-will activated and de-cloak ambushing, the most likely result is that I'll just knock the guy down to 5-15%% health and then have to escape anyways. It only really works on 'noobs' who don't react quickly enough. This is because the BoPs are UNDERPOWERED!!!. That tactic is about the only thing BoPs excel at (other than torpedoing someone/supporting allied from cloak using a B'rel), and we can no longer pull it off as well as a stinkin' Defiant or other fed escort that gets the drop on someone. THAT is what the problem is. The Hoh'sus BoP is a step in the right direction, but it's a half-assed move that took a few k HP and a friggin engineering console slot, making the gain far less impressive.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Maybe someone can explain why the Fleet Hoh'sus BoP is so trash as a fleet BoP?
Too little hull, shield mods that are either on par with or inferior to the Hegtha. Boff layouts which really aren't superior to the Hegtha.
It gets +1 console to it's name.
Now compare this to say a Fleet Defiant or Fleet MVAM.
+1 Tac Consoles (bringing them up to 5. That 5th tac console lets you reliably pierce through TT like it wasn't even there if you do it right, Consistently rather than a lucky shot from an overload)
Far Superior Shield mods. (Fleet mvam goes from .9 mod to .99 mod) Better hull modifiers.
The Hoshus is a side step to an already questionable ship. While it's not a total Fail Package like the Fleet Qin has turned out to be (and the Somraw ain't far behind with both of their total lack of a 5th tac console)
The bop also presently greatly suffers from Sci's CC ability being on the questionable side making it's only asset that any Escort couldn't already do and do better, abit dodgy without excellent team work and strategy.
The X Wing, had potential to be the Hegtas replacement and let's not kid ourselves here, the Fleet Ships are meant to be the replacements of the T5s across the board. But unfortunately someone, who was very stupid, decided to give it almost as much hull as a Delta Flyer, which means it is quite possible to nearly one shot it through TT with an Overload1 high crit. (vs a BO3 lucky crit from a Scort on the HegTa) The bops replacement/upgrade could have and should have been the X Wing but Cryptic in their infinite wisdom once again completely sabotaged the KDF from getting a real upgrade.
Tac cons vs 4 vs 5
Ens 1 vs 2
Lt, ltc, cmdr same
Hull 24,750 vs 34,000 (when seperated about 28,000?)
Shield Modifier .88 vs .99
Base Turn 21 vs .16 (22? when seperated?)
Crew 75 vs 150
So the only advantage one of these fleet ships has over the other is:
- one more ensign
- one more tac console
- 10% more shields
- 100% more crew
- 25% more hull (about 15% when seperated)
- (the two strongest pets in game when seperated)
- (better turnrate when seperated)
now c'mon... That's no advantage compared to battlecloak!
When was the last time you went up against a BoP swarm?
With evenly sized team, a BoP swarm is typically pretty underwhelming. However, I am guessing what you really mean is you by yourself against a swarm of BoPs. In that case, of course they should win, as should the team with the numbers advantage no matter what ships they are flying. Maybe I am wrong, but it sure seems you want BoPs to be so gimped that you can take multiple ones by yourself because balance doesn't apply when you think you're Kirk or something like that.
_________________________ TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz- Svarog | Veles | et al.
So the BoP question again. Mav, mewi have you ever considered that you both could be right?
Now obviously the BoP isnt that good in an arena. As many have pointed out it is just surpassed by other ships and the battlecloak wont help you much.
Now Kerrat is entirely different. It is more of an open world scenario which changes many things.
1. there isnt the same number of players on both sides. So you can have 3 Bops attacking one player. That means they can probably strike and cloak in battle without that much fear of retaliation. That also means they can just cloak and run if they see enemy reinforcements coming.
2. in an arena you know your enemy. In kerrat a BoP can simply add in a fight, strike and be gone. Since you didnt know there is a Bop around you probably dont have a burst prepared. Also you are likely not grouped with your allies. That means you probably dont even realize at first something decloaked and killed someone.
Now i dont know if any of you ever played Dark Age of Camelot. It was the best game in terms of PvP ever (in my opinion). The situation kind of reminds me of assassins in that game. They could staelth and sneak attack. They were not so useful in any high end premade group but they were nice to play solo or in small groups to ambush people in the open world.
The BoP may not have a place in an arena match but that doesnt mean it cant have an advantage in an open world scenario like kerrat.
Edit: Why on earth did the Forum censor the short form of Dark Age of Camelot?
BoP is nice gank ship. It might be popular once we have some sort of open pvp zone.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
So the BoP question again. Mav, mewi have you ever considered that you both could be right?
Now obviously the BoP isnt that good in an arena. As many have pointed out it is just surpassed by other ships and the battlecloak wont help you much.
Now Kerrat is entirely different. It is more of an open world scenario which changes many things.
1. there isnt the same number of players on both sides. So you can have 3 Bops attacking one player. That means they can probably strike and cloak in battle without that much fear of retaliation. That also means they can just cloak and run if they see enemy reinforcements coming.
2. in an arena you know your enemy. In kerrat a BoP can simply add in a fight, strike and be gone. Since you didnt know there is a Bop around you probably dont have a burst prepared. Also you are likely not grouped with your allies. That means you probably dont even realize at first something decloaked and killed someone.
Now i dont know if any of you ever played ****. It was the best game in terms of PvP ever (in my opinion). The situation kind of reminds me of assassins in that game. They could staelth and sneak attack. They were not so useful in any high end premade group but they were nice to play solo or in small groups to ambush people in the open world.
The BoP may not have a place in an arena match but that doesnt mean it cant have an advantage in an open world scenario like kerrat.
In what gore-spattered padded room from hell is that ever a good idea? BoP's are *not* shuttles and should *not* be considered "balanced" when they're effectively gimping their team in 2/3rd's of the game's PvP.
If the BoP was trading durability for more than a small turn-rate advantage and the "I-can't-believe-they-didn't-shoot-me-why-am-I-still-alive" cloak, maybe it'd not be in need of a buff. But it isn't, and it is. It's not an amazing alpha-striker, it's not a fantastic science ship, it's not a tough little dps'er that can hang in a firefight, and it's not anything like the ideal healer.
Basically, if there's no niche for the BoP to fill in a five man, why bring one along over, say, another carrier that can launch a pair of them and more siphon drones? Or a Fleet Vor'cha that's got almost as much teeth and worlds better ability to move between team healer and team TRIBBLE-kicker?*
*Realistically, it should be able to do both at once without too much trouble.
What I wish the Fleet BoP had looked like in stats. Still squishy compared to all T4 or 5 escorts ingame but kept close enough to par to not be laughible becuase an extra 750 hull plus a 4th tac console minus 25 crew is not what many would call an improvement.
Gimps the Ning'tao less for the two LTC slots but still keeps the hull very low making this BoP the squishier B'rel. Divides the bonus power up to accent its design as a stealth bomber over raider class.
In what gore-spattered padded room from hell is that ever a good idea? BoP's are *not* shuttles and should *not* be considered "balanced" when they're effectively gimping their team in 2/3rd's of the game's PvP.
I never said the BoP design was a good idea, or that i agree with it. I am just pointing out that Kerrat and the Arena are different things.
I don't particularly care if we're shooting and running, when it comes down to it. That's how the BoP was designed to be, and I don't really contest that. The addition of the tac slot and upgrading a LT to LTC wouldn't change this, you're right. What it WOULD do is enable a BoP to start doing what it's supposed to do. . .ambush and destroy an enemy with a precisely timed strike (which is a maneuver that requires a certain degree of skill, timing, and patience). Anytime I try doing that in a Hegh'ta (with Mk XII anti-borg fore weapons and torp spread) with alpha and fire-at-will activated and de-cloak ambushing, the most likely result is that I'll just knock the guy down to 5-15%% health and then have to escape anyways. It only really works on 'noobs' who don't react quickly enough. This is because the BoPs are UNDERPOWERED!!!. That tactic is about the only thing BoPs excel at (other than torpedoing someone/supporting allied from cloak using a B'rel), and we can no longer pull it off as well as a stinkin' Defiant or other fed escort that gets the drop on someone. THAT is what the problem is. The Hoh'sus BoP is a step in the right direction, but it's a half-assed move that took a few k HP and a friggin engineering console slot, making the gain far less impressive.
May I suggest something, one KDF patriot to another? Make sure that you have specced for a cannon build.
Get rid of the borg weapons, they're only good for STF's. Save-up and buy weapons with at least x2 [acc].
Run a cannon build 4x DHC and 2x turrets.
Make sure you are at least running:
TAC I, APD I, APO I, CRF III
TAC I, CSV I, CRF II
ENG I, EptS II
SCI I, TSS II
Use at least:
RCS console
Assimilated Console
P.Leach
I think that the BOP needs a bit more? It usually takes three or four of them, depending if one has SNB to take me out? and often, I usually either kill at least one of them or force at least one of them to withdraw for a bit only using two copies of BO-1 and torpedos.
May I suggest something, one KDF patriot to another? Make sure that you have specced for a cannon build.
Get rid of the borg weapons, they're only good for STF's. Save-up and buy weapons with at least x2 [acc].
Run a cannon build 4x DHC and 2x turrets.
Make sure you are at least running:
TAC I, APD I, APO I, CRF III
TAC I, CSV I, CRF II
ENG I, EptS II
SCI I, TSS II
Use at least:
RCS console
Assimilated Console
P.Leach
2-part Jem'Hadar set (deflector & engine)
And see what happens
Yeah, I'm working on the Acc weapons. The key thing is earning EC while also trying to earn Dilithium and the occasional bout of fleetmarks. I don't multitask easily, and Acc weapons are effing expensive.
My current BOFF setup (I change from single-target to AoE depending on situation) is:
For burst damage, I feel it works nicely, though I've been considering swapping out APO3 with C:RF 3, just so see how it works.
I have 1 neutronium console and two RCSs, and I feel I match Defiants well enough (somehow they're seemingly able to match a BoP in turning rate). Assimilated Console and two Field Generators. All three tac console slots are filled with the appropriate energy damage boosters (I switch between Phaser and Antiproton, anti-Borg). I've been told I do well enough, for a BoP, but I'm always open to new ideas for boosting burst DPS, since that's what a BoP is really meant for (in my opinion, at least).
EDIT: I don't feel comfortable running an all-cannon build in PvP because I have concerns about power use and about burst damage. You'd be surprised how much a successful torp spread 3 hit can do in damage. . .as long as it hits before they activate tac team or w/e. That's the only issue with torps, they're slow.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
yeah... it's sort of like... comparing a canary to a falcon...
I would use Canary to Jaguar myself.
The "Bop is great for kerrat" argument is also weak sauce. you have no idea how many defiants there could be lurking about (chances are None, because feds are Jim Kirk and must stop the borg! but that's the Playerbases problem not a problem with the ship) the defiant, Fleet or Not, can Hit Harder, is every big as agile, and every bit as fast.
It hits it kills then VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM it's back out... and cloaked.
The Bop is an ambush kitten, An Escort, can fufill it's role just as easily, and is more like a Cheetah on the Serengeti.
When I go to Kerrat, I don't get nervous at all even if I know there are 2 or more bops on the prowl if I am in my mvam. Because I know I can swat at least one of them to the floor, when he or his buddy or both decide to come get some.
I don't fear bops in my Vorcha, in KvK either.
The Raptor, and Defiant are the real kings of kerrat. Not the bop.
The "Bop is great for kerrat" argument is also weak sauce. you have no idea how many defiants there could be lurking about (chances are None, because feds are Jim Kirk and must stop the borg! but that's the Playerbases problem not a problem with the ship) the defiant, Fleet or Not, can Hit Harder, is every big as agile, and every bit as fast.
It hits it kills then VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM it's back out... and cloaked.
The Bop is an ambush kitten, An Escort, can fufill it's role just as easily, and is more like a Cheetah on the Serengeti.
When I go to Kerrat, I don't get nervous at all even if I know there are 2 or more bops on the prowl if I am in my mvam. Because I know I can swat at least one of them to the floor, when he or his buddy or both decide to come get some.
I don't fear bops in my Vorcha, in KvK either.
The Raptor, and Defiant are the real kings of kerrat. Not the bop.
Ya know.. this makes me wonder if I should bring my Tac/B'rel back out of retirement..
Hmm.. Fly something that has less hull then Bird of Prey Carrier pets.. Something that has almost equal hull to some shuttles...
Something that has the same Boff slot (Universal of course), And weapon slots as the Tier 4 Defiant....
Wait why do I want to take my B'rel out of Retirement again?
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Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Comments
I'm okay with that, certainly beats the "Give them a 2nd commander slot, 7th weapon, 5 tact slots and 30k hull" posts.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Mew, do yourself a favor and fly one, you'll see ts not as good as you think. In fact, 1.5 yrs ago when I made my first kling, I did that to understand the race and to be able to kick klings butts. But I end up staying on red race. But not bc bop is so awesome as you think, lol. I stopped playing bop few months ago bc of its squishiness.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
id just like to say this is the bops purpose, and it should continue to be. people complaining that they are doing what they are supposed to are just mad they gettin styled on. i dont think anyone here wants to change its role to something else, and none of the proposed changes would. on a bop, in every category of things that would help it do its job better, there is a -1, compared to any escort. except for the battlecloak that is overrated.
i cant remember the last time a bop survived attacking me alone, and then tryed to battle cloak to get away and not instead evasive away. so ya. bops equal free kills to me, they don't stand a chance. all they can hope to do is pop newbs and kick people wile they are down. your resistance to accepting the math behind a bops disadvantage is admirable, but pretty pointless. this is the popular opinion for good reason.
no body has proposed doing all that at once. with 2 commander stations it still wouldn't be able to leverage more exotic alpha strikes like it used to be able to before science was nerfed to the ground. a 7th weapon slot is an extra turret. big deal. 5 tac slots or 30k hull is absurd though, if people suggested that they proboly weren't being serious. 5 tactical consoles on any ship is a sin committed by geco, and with escort hull and shields the bop would just be an escort
Now you're exaggerating what I mentioned. I didn't say '2nd commander slot', I said 'another BOFF skillslot', and then mentioned the effing Ning'tao, which implies an LTC slot. Most of what I mentioned basically just involves melding the two fleet BoPs into a single BoP, which is what Cryptic should've done to begin with. I didn't mention increased hullstrength, and neither did anyone else. The 3rd rear weapon slot is ultimately not that important in the grand scheme of things, and wouldn't do a damn thing to unbalance things unless someone carried a tricobalt mine launcher in it. That's why I said 'maybe'.
Stop misrepresenting what I and others have suggested, and stick with reality.
I don't particularly care if we're shooting and running, when it comes down to it. That's how the BoP was designed to be, and I don't really contest that. The addition of the tac slot and upgrading a LT to LTC wouldn't change this, you're right. What it WOULD do is enable a BoP to start doing what it's supposed to do. . .ambush and destroy an enemy with a precisely timed strike (which is a maneuver that requires a certain degree of skill, timing, and patience). Anytime I try doing that in a Hegh'ta (with Mk XII anti-borg fore weapons and torp spread) with alpha and fire-at-will activated and de-cloak ambushing, the most likely result is that I'll just knock the guy down to 5-15%% health and then have to escape anyways. It only really works on 'noobs' who don't react quickly enough. This is because the BoPs are UNDERPOWERED!!!. That tactic is about the only thing BoPs excel at (other than torpedoing someone/supporting allied from cloak using a B'rel), and we can no longer pull it off as well as a stinkin' Defiant or other fed escort that gets the drop on someone. THAT is what the problem is. The Hoh'sus BoP is a step in the right direction, but it's a half-assed move that took a few k HP and a friggin engineering console slot, making the gain far less impressive.
And cryptic caters to people like him. Jim Kirk wannabes, that get butt hurt because they get killed.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Too little hull, shield mods that are either on par with or inferior to the Hegtha. Boff layouts which really aren't superior to the Hegtha.
It gets +1 console to it's name.
Now compare this to say a Fleet Defiant or Fleet MVAM.
+1 Tac Consoles (bringing them up to 5. That 5th tac console lets you reliably pierce through TT like it wasn't even there if you do it right, Consistently rather than a lucky shot from an overload)
Far Superior Shield mods. (Fleet mvam goes from .9 mod to .99 mod) Better hull modifiers.
The Hoshus is a side step to an already questionable ship. While it's not a total Fail Package like the Fleet Qin has turned out to be (and the Somraw ain't far behind with both of their total lack of a 5th tac console)
The bop also presently greatly suffers from Sci's CC ability being on the questionable side making it's only asset that any Escort couldn't already do and do better, abit dodgy without excellent team work and strategy.
The X Wing, had potential to be the Hegtas replacement and let's not kid ourselves here, the Fleet Ships are meant to be the replacements of the T5s across the board. But unfortunately someone, who was very stupid, decided to give it almost as much hull as a Delta Flyer, which means it is quite possible to nearly one shot it through TT with an Overload1 high crit. (vs a BO3 lucky crit from a Scort on the HegTa) The bops replacement/upgrade could have and should have been the X Wing but Cryptic in their infinite wisdom once again completely sabotaged the KDF from getting a real upgrade.
3 Eng
4 Tact vs 3 vs 3
3 Sci
Univeral LT Same Same Same
Universal LT Same Same Same
Universal LTC Same Same Same
Universal C Same Same Same
Hull 24750 vs 22,500 vs 24,000
Shield Modifier .88 vs .8 vs .8
Base Turn 21 vs .23 vs 21
Crew 75 vs 35 vs 100
Fleet Defiant/Retro
5 tact vs 4
2 sci
3 eng
Tact Commander
Tact LT Commander
Tact Ensign
Engineer LT
Science LT
Hull 33,000 vs 30,000
Shield modifier .9
Base Turn 17
MVAM vs Fleet Advanced Escort
5 Tactical vs 4
Crew 150
Base Hull 34100 vs 31000
Base Turn 16
Shield Modifier .99 vs .9
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
hmm.. must be more than a year... guess people started realizing that don't work anymore...
So the only advantage one of these fleet ships has over the other is:
- one more ensign
- one more tac console
- 10% more shields
- 100% more crew
- 25% more hull (about 15% when seperated)
- (the two strongest pets in game when seperated)
- (better turnrate when seperated)
now c'mon... That's no advantage compared to battlecloak!
With evenly sized team, a BoP swarm is typically pretty underwhelming. However, I am guessing what you really mean is you by yourself against a swarm of BoPs. In that case, of course they should win, as should the team with the numbers advantage no matter what ships they are flying. Maybe I am wrong, but it sure seems you want BoPs to be so gimped that you can take multiple ones by yourself because balance doesn't apply when you think you're Kirk or something like that.
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
Now obviously the BoP isnt that good in an arena. As many have pointed out it is just surpassed by other ships and the battlecloak wont help you much.
Now Kerrat is entirely different. It is more of an open world scenario which changes many things.
1. there isnt the same number of players on both sides. So you can have 3 Bops attacking one player. That means they can probably strike and cloak in battle without that much fear of retaliation. That also means they can just cloak and run if they see enemy reinforcements coming.
2. in an arena you know your enemy. In kerrat a BoP can simply add in a fight, strike and be gone. Since you didnt know there is a Bop around you probably dont have a burst prepared. Also you are likely not grouped with your allies. That means you probably dont even realize at first something decloaked and killed someone.
Now i dont know if any of you ever played Dark Age of Camelot. It was the best game in terms of PvP ever (in my opinion). The situation kind of reminds me of assassins in that game. They could staelth and sneak attack. They were not so useful in any high end premade group but they were nice to play solo or in small groups to ambush people in the open world.
The BoP may not have a place in an arena match but that doesnt mean it cant have an advantage in an open world scenario like kerrat.
Edit: Why on earth did the Forum censor the short form of Dark Age of Camelot?
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
In what gore-spattered padded room from hell is that ever a good idea? BoP's are *not* shuttles and should *not* be considered "balanced" when they're effectively gimping their team in 2/3rd's of the game's PvP.
If the BoP was trading durability for more than a small turn-rate advantage and the "I-can't-believe-they-didn't-shoot-me-why-am-I-still-alive" cloak, maybe it'd not be in need of a buff. But it isn't, and it is. It's not an amazing alpha-striker, it's not a fantastic science ship, it's not a tough little dps'er that can hang in a firefight, and it's not anything like the ideal healer.
Basically, if there's no niche for the BoP to fill in a five man, why bring one along over, say, another carrier that can launch a pair of them and more siphon drones? Or a Fleet Vor'cha that's got almost as much teeth and worlds better ability to move between team healer and team TRIBBLE-kicker?*
*Realistically, it should be able to do both at once without too much trouble.
Hull: 24,750
Shields: 4,180
Weapons: fore: 4 aft: 3
Crew: 75
BOff: 1C 1LTC 2LT 1E
Consoles: T4 E3 S3
Devices: 2
Turn: 21
Impulse: 0.2
Battle Cloak
+15 to weapons
What I wish the Fleet BoP had looked like in stats. Still squishy compared to all T4 or 5 escorts ingame but kept close enough to par to not be laughible becuase an extra 750 hull plus a 4th tac console minus 25 crew is not what many would call an improvement.
Fleet Ning'Tao (B'rel refit)
Hull: 16,500
Shields: 4000
Weapons: fore: 4 aft: 2
Crew: 75
BOff: 1C 2LTC 1LT
Consoles: T3 E3 S3
Devices: 2
Turn: 22
Impulse: 0.2
Advanced battle Cloak
+10 weapons
+5 Auxillary
Gimps the Ning'tao less for the two LTC slots but still keeps the hull very low making this BoP the squishier B'rel. Divides the bonus power up to accent its design as a stealth bomber over raider class.
R.I.P
I never said the BoP design was a good idea, or that i agree with it. I am just pointing out that Kerrat and the Arena are different things.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
The changes being suggested hardly equates the BOP with a battleship.
May I suggest something, one KDF patriot to another? Make sure that you have specced for a cannon build.
Get rid of the borg weapons, they're only good for STF's. Save-up and buy weapons with at least x2 [acc].
Run a cannon build 4x DHC and 2x turrets.
Make sure you are at least running:
TAC I, APD I, APO I, CRF III
TAC I, CSV I, CRF II
ENG I, EptS II
SCI I, TSS II
Use at least:
RCS console
Assimilated Console
P.Leach
2-part Jem'Hadar set (deflector & engine)
And see what happens
Correct, but I also see some comparing the BoP with an escort which is just as WRONG.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
yeah... it's sort of like... comparing a canary to a falcon...
Yeah, I'm working on the Acc weapons. The key thing is earning EC while also trying to earn Dilithium and the occasional bout of fleetmarks. I don't multitask easily, and Acc weapons are effing expensive.
My current BOFF setup (I change from single-target to AoE depending on situation) is:
TT1 C:RF1 TorpSpread3 APO3
TT1 BO2 C:RF 2
EPtS 1 RSP1
PolarizeHull1 HE2
For burst damage, I feel it works nicely, though I've been considering swapping out APO3 with C:RF 3, just so see how it works.
I have 1 neutronium console and two RCSs, and I feel I match Defiants well enough (somehow they're seemingly able to match a BoP in turning rate). Assimilated Console and two Field Generators. All three tac console slots are filled with the appropriate energy damage boosters (I switch between Phaser and Antiproton, anti-Borg). I've been told I do well enough, for a BoP, but I'm always open to new ideas for boosting burst DPS, since that's what a BoP is really meant for (in my opinion, at least).
EDIT: I don't feel comfortable running an all-cannon build in PvP because I have concerns about power use and about burst damage. You'd be surprised how much a successful torp spread 3 hit can do in damage. . .as long as it hits before they activate tac team or w/e. That's the only issue with torps, they're slow.
I would use Canary to Jaguar myself.
The "Bop is great for kerrat" argument is also weak sauce. you have no idea how many defiants there could be lurking about (chances are None, because feds are Jim Kirk and must stop the borg! but that's the Playerbases problem not a problem with the ship) the defiant, Fleet or Not, can Hit Harder, is every big as agile, and every bit as fast.
It hits it kills then VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM it's back out... and cloaked.
The Bop is an ambush kitten, An Escort, can fufill it's role just as easily, and is more like a Cheetah on the Serengeti.
When I go to Kerrat, I don't get nervous at all even if I know there are 2 or more bops on the prowl if I am in my mvam. Because I know I can swat at least one of them to the floor, when he or his buddy or both decide to come get some.
I don't fear bops in my Vorcha, in KvK either.
The Raptor, and Defiant are the real kings of kerrat. Not the bop.
Ya know.. this makes me wonder if I should bring my Tac/B'rel back out of retirement..
Hmm.. Fly something that has less hull then Bird of Prey Carrier pets.. Something that has almost equal hull to some shuttles...
Something that has the same Boff slot (Universal of course), And weapon slots as the Tier 4 Defiant....
Wait why do I want to take my B'rel out of Retirement again?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku