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Kinetic rifles and pistols
hp1239
Member Posts: 50 Arc User
For those of us who bought the retail copies of sto at Target and received the TR-116 kinetic rifle I make this humble request of the developers. Though its cool that the gun micro-transports the rounds behind obstacles, could it please be made to level up? Also, it has 2 modes which are essentially the same. How about a Full-Auto mode and a Sniper Mode? Finally how about an update for the sound. Im seeing large caliber shell cases arcing away but my rifle sounds like poomp!? Furthermore, how about a kinetic pistol? I know none of this will prob happen but i can put it out there right?
Thanks for at least reading this
Thanks for at least reading this
Post edited by hp1239 on
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conclusion was: that it was too powerfull for PVP (maybe if they really abandon PVP, they do it)
a mkXII version of that gun would be too powerfull for PVE too...imagine you can sit behind a rock and blast away a captain npc, without any effort. Thats game breaking...
The rifle does not function like that. You cannot just sit behind cover and "punch in" your target. It requires an initial visual sighting to "lock-on" and is subject to range like any other weapon. A lot of weapons that scale up only go up a small amount each time. Since the max dmg for the TR-116 is only about 96 dps, even at mk xii, the damage would be in line with other mk xii weapons. It wouldnt give any more advanatge in starbase incursion than any other weapon. Combat drones and security escorts give you more advantage because they actively seek out targets.
This is awesome.
Yeah, this would be great to see. PvP and PvE would be too easy, though.
Actually, as defalus said, you can target an out-of-sight opponent if you know their name using the /target command.
I don't care, though. I just want to be able to keep using this awesome weapon. Besides, I don't think a leveling TR-116 would be as overpowered in PVP as some do, given how much kinetic resistance most armors provide (usually more than they do energy resistance). And only the slow secondary fire works without LoS, anyway.
It would also remind people that the gimmicky, crappy, 2-dimensional Borg have a gaping plot hole hanging out for everyone to see.
Thus they were caught trying to adapt to the wrong thing.
It makes a lot more sense than gunpowder weapons being magic against them. That suggestion is right up there with the borg being forced to retreat by someone with a board with a nail in it....
Or they can balance out the PvP and the worry of over using in PvE and story mission by making these projectile weapon needing ammunition. These can be bought at starbases, awarded from Doff mission, or expensivly replicated from your ship.
Maybe forcing you to put the ammo into item slot will help as well since that will take one less thing a player can use in combat.
Another way of balancing may be over heating. Since projectile weapons does produce friction and friction causes heat. Over heating too much should also break the weapon as well, if not disabling it for a short time, so this can help stop the spamming of this weapon in PvP.
With replicator technology being used for such petty things as making tea and technology in the future being WAY better than it is now it makes zero sense for guns and ammo to be wildly expensive, overheating, stalling junk.
There are simply no projectile weapons widely available in Star Trek except for some sure-as-hell banned prototypes. Please, don't make this even less Star Trek than it is already. If you all want Mass Effect, go play Mass Effect. I just don't get this.
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There is nothing un Star Trek about kinetic weapons.
I am sure the Klingon warrior over there would have no qualms about using his mek'leth as a tomahawk to take you out while you're fumbling with your phaser. A thrown bladed weapon is technically a kinetic weapon which has the potential to nullify most defence against energy weapons, making it a viable tactical option.
And likewise with Federation security officers being proficient in martial arts in the event physical stopping power is required to subdue an enemy that is too close to use energy weapons on.
You do not see officers shirking away from hand to hand combat because "it is not Star Trek", when the matter of survival is at stake.
As far as I am concerned, STO is interestingly suitable for a variety of 'primitive' spaceborne weapon systems as well due to the insanely close ranges between battling starships. Which is why we have had the Ferengi rapid fire missile launcher as a close range assault weapon.
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Going back to using projectile weaponry (I'm not talking about "kinetic" per se - after all, torpedoes are widely available) would really be an astounding step backwards in development, similiar to modern-day techs developing high-tech slingshots for military use. The only reason for that is the "coolness" factor of explosions, smoke and shells. But it wouldn't make sense, at all. Forcefields, inpenetrable by matter are one of the most basic features every engineer in Star Trek can come up with. This is also why the "personal shields" in STO don't make much sense being penetrable by melee weapons, but hey every game nowadays has shields which recharge automatically over time so STO had to, too, right?
Close-combat weapons for boarding actions on narrow space ships are a logical choice (unless you introduce "personal shields", but that's a game invention. The show had prototypes which didn't work if I remember correctly). But projectile weapons which can magically bypass shields aren't. Think about it, a starships basic deflector shield does protect the ship from objects in space colliding with the ship at the speed of light and beyond. Why would ANY kind of projectile bypass even the most basic protective technology? This is, by the way, something I never get: All Sci-Fi settings with projectile based weapons have this kind of problem: If starships can shield themselves against all the garbage that's coming at the ship during space travel, why do in comparision slow projectiles hurt them?
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You may not be aware of this, but the some sections of the U.S. Military, the Marines I believe, are now issuing hand axes, essentially "Tomahawks" to the troops due to their superiority over simple knives in close hand to hand combat. This would not be a step backward, as the TR-116 is an updated version of a tried-and-true weapon. It is also canon, having been used in series.
That being said, I see nothing wrong with the TR-116 leveling with the toon, seeing that there really aren't that many out there and they are essentially no longer available. It is a fun weapon, but at high levels it is almost useless due to the low damage it delivers. In fact, the only time I ever use mine anymore is when I'm doing ground missions against the Borg. I would love to make more use of it, personally.
~ Cap
Close-combat weapons and tools are fine, like I said. They still have a use, but my point was that projectile firearms in Star Trek are hopelessly outdated, hence the Slingshot comparison. Though, I'm sure that there are actually some sort of Slingshots for the military for whatever obscure reasons, but you don't arm your default G.I. with it.
The TR-116 IS canon, however it is also canon that they never produced more than the prototype since the development of the regenerative phaser already rendered the TR-116 obsolete. The second rifle was replicated illegally and used for assasinations - there would be no way that Starfleet officers would use this rifle on a larger scale or any other weapons like that. Sure, there are some in the game because it was a marketing gimmick and has no real ingame reason to be there and I don't mind if it levels with the toon, to get that out of the way. But there is really no justification for projectile rifles or pistols in Star Trek ^^
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Using less advance technology doesn't mean going back.
Sometime in the 2000s, the US military conducted a military exercise that pits two admirals against each other. Both sides had state of the art tech of the time, but they were at stalemate because of it. One side, then decided to give up using most of their tech and use an old fashion infiltration and sabotage strategy. They manage to disable a ship without detection even with high tech radar and sensors on board. The primitive side won the exercise.
Lower tech weaponry doesn't = to better weapon.
Kevlar stops bullet, lets us an ax.
Shields stops energy weapons, lets us bullets.
It is logical to use any methods that is possible to gain an advantage.
That is mostly a rock paper scissors exercise, though, and a reminder not to rely too much on any one strat or weapon.
It isn't an argument for scrapping modern firearms and arming everyone with pointy sticks.
and if you think only 2 cm ahead you will come to realize that kevlar is even more effective against slashing and stabbing weapons
if you think another 2 cm ahead...shields are designed to repell projectiles like micro asteroids etc. so they are most effective against projectiles anyway.
and the scene in which picard kills a borg with a tommy gun...well guess what, they are not bullets...they are photons shaped by forcefields...so basically an energy weapon not unlike the plasma weapons. And the only reason it was in the film is, because it looked cool...not because it was some sort of canon loophole.
In the first episode in which the borg are featured...a borg transports onto the enterprise and nobody could touch him because of the forcefield surrounding him. (same effect as in dune)
the only reason why melee weapons are in this game is because they wanted players to give a chance to battle with bathlets and lirpas. I think it was never intended to let them even be close to the effectiveness of any other energy weapon ingame.
i want to add, that if you are a fan of melee combat, there are like a trillion better games that feature melee combat. Let Star Trek be star trek, and that is without projectile weapons or swords as viable combat weapons.
This
@baudl: Thanks for your explanation
Besides, Starfleet developed a phaser that can overcome shielding. If someone has a countermessure against something, you try to overcome it instead of throwing a rock at it.
If you look at the visuals this is obviously were they want this game
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to be fair...the cover system in ME would have been great in STO. just remembering all the shooting scenes, where everybody takes cover behind a rock/container etc. Thats typical Star trek.
but during the rewamp of the ground combat, they left that oppportunity out...instead they implemented a useless shooter mode that makes the use of KIT abilities and captain abilities very hard to use.
but does it make sense? It makes fully sense to train hand to hand combat...for when you are forced by any circumstance to fight without a energ/projectile weapon. But it makes utterly no sense at all for a boarding party to have bladed weapons. Even today, do you see police forces run around with swords when storming a building? a knife and a hammer, yes, but those are used for primarely non lethal things. why would it make sense, when boarding a space ship. I understand that projectile weapons have a disadvantage in space...the same thing maybe as in airplanes today. Or the recoil in low gravity environments.
1) This is star-trek. It's meant to be out there, and take you away from the normal and mundane.
2) Even in the lore replicators and transporters are energy intensive. Energy is plot device plentiful, but not unlimited.
3) Who wants to lug 60lbs. of ammo, replicator equipment (which it should be noted is not always stable), or generators when you have a handheld device able to do the same or more damage without considerations like aerodynamics or drag.
Oh yes, it does. Not on a planet's surface or in open terrain, but keep in mind that a strhip interior is meant to be a narrow area. Granted, in STO it makes no sense since ship interiors for some reason have those ridiculous hangar-bay sized hallways but if you think about the show the ship interiors are not THAT big plus on smaller craft resemble submarine-dimensions. If you can close in on your opponent with a bladed weapon in this enviroment you overcome his ranged capabilities since you need space to properly use a ranged weapon, even a phaser. Plus you have the moral element - fierce klingon warriors closing in with sharp bladed weapons inflict hideous wounds - in a time where there are mostly "civilized" energy weapons used that is an even more horrifying thought than getting blasted with a disruptor.
Plus, Klingons don't go in and charge at you with a bat'leth while you shoot them. At least most of the time XD They are not dumb and have disruptors but can switch if the need arises. And if they can come close and the opponent has a basic knowledge of hand-to-hand combat he still can't block a blade.
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it makes completely sense in a theatralic and role play setting, which ofcourse this game is.
But if it would make any sense in a more or less real world environment, swat teams would storm a building with short swords.
and no it makes no sense to use a sword in a confined and limited space like a submarine...try to swing a sword in a 2m x 2m room.
while your klingon warrior tries to overcome the distance, he finds himself infornt of a closed door.:( a disruptor may breach the lock...oh wait, they only have swords^^
so, in my opinion the arguments you bring may work if you want to make a movie ? la "worst of the 80's B-movies", otherwise it makes no sense to use anything else but a knife in such an environment you described.
Further what you described are cavalery tactics of the 17th century (or something like that) when closing in on the enemy at high speeds made perfect sense, since reloading took a lot of time, and accuracy was non existing. There it made sense...improvements in accuracy and reloading periods made the cavalery obsolete. same applies in this situation, since relaoding and accuracy should be no problem.
i mean it is not like this wasn't already thought through by experts...they came up with a knife that is put on the tip of a short rifle. That makes sense...and is proven to be usefull in specific situations.
but let's not derail this thread any further, in my opinion outting projectile weapons and giving melee weapons more usefullness in this game is highly un -Star Trek and un -Sci Fi. There are plenty of other games out there that feature exactly this, no need to have it in STO too.
PS: the KHG weapon would be the perfect example how a weapon for boarding ships would look like...so it is ingame already.
The first was against Hirogen using portable energy dampening devices, making phasers completely useless as well as the transporting TR-116. They utilized the TR-116 without the transporter, allowing them to defeat the Hirogen by penetrating their heavy armor using the tritanium slugs the thing hurls.
The second was against the Borg when they boarded a Probe scout ship and used them against the Borg because their energy shields would not block the rifles. In effect, the Federation had adapted to the Borg's ability to adapt to energy attacks and came up with a new way to beat them.
Like I said, not canon, but they're two good examples of why the TR-116 or an advanced version of the weapon would be more useful in certain circumstances. That's what it is, a circumstantial weapon, nothing more.
Just a note I picked up from Memory Alpha as well about the TR-116.
Multiple novels have made use of the TR-116 but only in certain circumstances, which the person that made the entry into Memory Alpha is correct about. Phasers in the end, still come out on top as the best general hand weapon and at most times, a far superior combat weapon. Only in certain circumstances is the TR-116 viable over a phaser.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
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You can replicate the ammo of course but you'd need to have it in your capt's equipped inventory item.
Thus, you cannot be replicating or swapping items under red alert.
10 round ammo clips.
There, the gun can now fire kinetic under normal fire mode (non-teleported rounds, requires LOS, unlimited ammo) and its teleported high damage, ammo consuming bullets for its special ability.
Solution!