Dabo is ok it uses a fictional money and is a fictional game, but when you use real money and gambling in a teen environment it equals bad future problems, and if you feel you cannot lose that teaches an even worse lesson.
And again totally ignores the concept of personal responsibility.
Also, how do you know the game is a "teen" environment? Being rated teen and having a majority of your playerbase actually being teenaged are two different things. Didn't I read somewhere that the average age of an online gamer is mid-30's?
Also, you didn't answer the question where I asked if you seriously believe PWE/Cryptic would make as much money with your idea of everything in the c-store vs their idea of c-store/lockboxes.
Just sticking something in here, the lock boxes are better because the drop rate for mirror ships must be significantly higher than the Orb weaver since they are selling for less than 5M on the exchange last I checked.
They sell for less because they're just worth less, regardless of rarity. They're more or less re-skins of ships (I believe the MU Star Cruiser = Assault Cruiser, and MU Assault Cruiser = Star Cruiser?), whereas the other ships all have unique qualities.
When building the bridge, I had toyed with the idea of putting in some federation AC unit in the corner. I didn't, but my expectation was that your engineering crew (or starfleet's) came over in EV suits, and turned down the thermostat.
::: ROTFLMAO ...
I'm glad to see that the difference in environments WAS taken into account.
And again totally ignores the concept of personal responsibility.
Also, how do you know the game is a "teen" environment? Being rated teen and having a majority of your playerbase actually being teenaged are two different things. Didn't I read somewhere that the average age of an online gamer is mid-30's?
Also, you didn't answer the question where I asked if you seriously believe PWE/Cryptic would make as much money with your idea of everything in the c-store vs their idea of c-store/lockboxes.
Personal responsibility is what the rating is for, to assure parents the game issued material will be age appropriate for teenagers and gambling with real money to bet prizes is way outside the box. Minors are not required to have personal responsibility, that is why they cannot enter into binding contracts for credit cards, marriage, and gambling. The reason being is the law does not find them responsible in these circumstances.
Yes I think they would make more money.....i like to know what I am buying. So many could except getting what they paid for, more than the numbers of players continuously condemning this poor behavior that has violated the communites trust
Personal responsibility is what the rating is for, to assure parents the game issued material will be age appropriate for teenagers and gambling with real money to bet prizes is way outside the box. Minors are not required to have personal responsibility, that is why they cannot enter into binding contracts for credit cards, marriage, and gambling. The reason being is the law does not find them responsible in these circumstances.
and minors can only participate in the gambling either with resources earned in game (dilithium traded to buy keys, no money involved) or with their own money (personal responsible for how they spend it) or with money given to them by their parents/caretakers (parents responsibility).
And of course no one can hold minors responsible for entering into contracts and marriage. We aren't talking about that. We are talking about people taking responsibility for how they spend their own disposible income. Minors still make decisions regarding what they will buy, last I checked.
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.
That covers the usual gamut of what content in game will lead to school shootings or devil worshipping, but nothing about parents doing their job and not letting little Jimmy or Sally go crazy with C-store purchases.
And before we continue this cry of "But think of the children!", who do you think actually buys keys?
13 year olds who throw a tantrum because they want to open up lockboxes of the month for a Tholian ship? (who is 13 right now and knew what a Tholian is before S6 or think the ships look cooler than the Armitage?)
Or ye olde TOS Trekkie collectorman who has too much disposable income or will sell his kidneys for a bottle of Spock's sweat on ebay?
Refrain from projecting your own disdain of company direction through adolescent meatshields. It's disgusting when soccer moms do it and its doubly depressing when STO forumers try it.
and minors can only participate in the gambling either with resources earned in game (dilithium traded to buy keys, no money involved) or with their own money (personal responsible for how they spend it) or with money given to them by their parents/caretakers (parents responsibility).
And of course no one can hold minors responsible for entering into contracts and marriage. We aren't talking about that. We are talking about people taking responsibility for how they spend their own disposible income. Minors still make decisions regarding what they will buy, last I checked.
Good try thou.
Minors technically are not responsible for how they spend their income,because they can not be expected to understand a simple purchase agreement, therefore the seller holds liability when selling to minors they are exempts from binding disclaimers, because they are under an age of a culpable mental state to be held responsible. This mental state my also exempt them from being prosecuted from criminal acts.
Minors technically are not responsible for how they spend their income,because they can not be expected to understand a simple purchase agreement, therefore the seller holds liability when selling to minors they are exempts from binding disclaimers, because they are under an age of a culpable mental state to be held responsible. This mental state my also exempt them from being prosecuted from criminal acts.
Thank you.
Keep dancing around the issue with off-point comparisons. It makes your argument look better.
Except, it really doesn't.
Sovereignman expressed it much better than I ever could. Please read his post.
Keep dancing around the issue with off-point comparisons. It makes your argument look better.
Except, it really doesn't.
Sovereignman expressed it much better than I ever could. Please read his post.
I read his post it makes my point simulated gambling is with simulated currencies......not real ones. I do not dance.....it is what it is no matter how you try to rationalize it.
Personal responsibility is what the rating is for, to assure parents the game issued material will be age appropriate for teenagers and gambling with real money to bet prizes is way outside the box.
You are dancing the Houdini because you're trying to make something out of nothing.
A tiny square with a T on it is not a substitute for a parent doing their job. Something that is outside the box requires you to use what's in the box, your brain.
There is nothing predatory at work here. PWE is not selling heroin to minors at the local schoolyard regardless of how you feel when STO went F2P and lockboxes came about.
There is no lawsuit or government babysitting necessary when the parent is doing their job of monitoring their child's activities, financial or otherwise.
Here in the United States of China we call that, "personal responsibility".
You are dancing the Houdini because you're trying to make something out of nothing.
A tiny square with a T on it is not a substitute for a parent doing their job. Something that is outside the box requires you to use what's in the box, your brain.
There is nothing predatory at work here. PWE is not selling heroin to minors at the local schoolyard regardless of how you feel when STO went F2P and lockboxes came about.
There is no lawsuit or government babysitting necessary when the parent is doing their job of monitoring their child's activities, financial or otherwise.
Here in the United States of China we call that, "personal responsibility".
The old Lobi store inventory has been replaced. But the minimum number of Lobi rewarded per box has been increased. So save your Lobi and hope they rotate the old stock back in? I dunno.
As for the consoles, the exchange is flooded with them. I picked up 7 of them for about 10 mil.
I was informed where on the exchange they were, and I couldn't help myself 'stealing' one for a bit over 1 mil EC. My shuttle rocks the vault now.
...Now I need to decide what to do with all those stacks of boxes clogging my bank.
Minors technically are not responsible for how they spend their income,because they can not be expected to understand a simple purchase agreement, therefore the seller holds liability when selling to minors they are exempts from binding disclaimers, because they are under an age of a culpable mental state to be held responsible. This mental state my also exempt them from being prosecuted from criminal acts.
Thank you.
Are you suggesting that people from the ages of 13 - 17 do not understand a simple purchase agreement? Because I'm reasonably sure that money management is taught from a very young age.
This is a game rated teen? Teens do not need a star trek influenced gambling problem by the time they are 18. Well many more would purchase in the c-store that would guarantee income, instead of turning so many of us off to the game and micro transactions. Just call it what it is and let us purchase what we want and give us some rare drops and take the gambling aspect out for the kids, protect that teen rating.
Any teen that has the disposable income, a credit card, and no parental supervision of online spending, already has problems more serious than gambling.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Eh, ran out of time, had it all finished up and out the door before I realized I'd missed it.
Out of curiosity, those who've been on the bridge. . . have you found the button yet? I'm concerned many people won't and will be confused/disappointed.
I'm assuming the Orb Weaver and Carrier have the same bridge. If so, yesthe button was an awesome little find and I'm glad it wasn't obvious (like the Doff console is.)
However, I was excited and disappointed about the ceiling. When you look up and realize that the room is essentially 14 sided and the walls and ceiling parts are copies of the floor you are on, my initial reaction was WHOA! But then it was Awww, when I DIDN'T see my other BOFFs manning terminals on the "other" bridges... ala an Escher painting!
It would have been a nice touch to the craziness of the bridge, the Tholians in general, and a way to see more than 2 BOFFs on your "bridge."
That "aw shucks" moment aside, nice work on the bridge and the ships.
If I could make 1 request, it would be to revisit the Borg piece visuals on the ship. The shields look like there are smudges of green on the hull, instead of the circuit board feel other ships get. The engine on th back looks awesome, but the part that extends onto the hull is just floating there (keep in mind I only have the Carrier.) Also, the deflector is rather comical with how big it gets! It reminded me of Nero's ship in the Abrams Trek.
Any teen that has the disposable income, a credit card, and no parental supervision of online spending, already has problems more serious than gambling.
This, starting with a desperate need to take their parents to court for willful neglect.
You're right but since my teams run Need or Greed settings as standard, as do any STF's etc I end up doing then its a bit of an oversight is all I was pointing out.
they were made common so every player in the game wouldnt complain of box spamm better having one player that for reason was to farm them that the whole of sto getting spamm
Agreed. Tholians do not breath oxygen, are giant buugs, and live on demon class planets. Their ships would ne well ove 200 degrees, and the controls would be made for big insects. Tholian shipps make no sense.
guess thats why they said the life surport has been altered so u can have to use a ev suit
It doesn't feel like gambling when I don't lose. I get something cool and useful with each key. It's more like opening a mystery box that is worth the price I paid, regardless of what it contains (so far).
And that's why the lockboxes aren't considered gambling under the law -- because you always get /something/ for your money.
To be considered gambling under the law, someone would have to lose (i.e. get nothing for their money), and that's not happening here.
Lockboxes are more like the games at a carnival or fair -- everybody pays money to throw softballs at a target, hoping to win the giant stuffed toy bear -- but most people win balloons or temporary tattoos instead.
Everybody gets something, even if they don't think it's worthy of the ticket price.
There, I said it. I like these Tholian lock boxes. The rewards are cool. They are fun to unlock. I don't feel ripped off.
If you would like to flame me now, go ahead. If you would like to join my camp of lock box gurus, please do so.
This thread may now begin.
i like them to paid 120$ and have all 3 tholian ships and love them all i got lots of master keys and got the ships with the EC i made from the master keys
- less annoying (don't drop every 2nd kill)
- do not clutter my inventory
- i do not have to rightclick>dismiss that crazy often
- they have so sh*tty rewards that i don't even care to open them (a Star Wars Sword? Ships that were never on the show? (and are useless to me personally if i look at the Stats, all of them!), plus some very very uninteresting off duty clothing options,
yay thx for saving me some money-grind Crytpic, more of that please!)
the only thing thats worse is that there is even more Bind on Pickup stuff in the Lobi Store, good thing i don't want any of it.
I totally would have expected to see the First Contact suit in the Lobi Store, yet they've gone the Greed [x2] route and put a $ sign on the Mk XII loot from Nukara (yay now i don't want to play their new content either!) and put the Suit that i wanted as a 700 Zen PER CHAR unlock in the C-Store woohoo you can keep that too because i'm not paying that 11 times for all my chars, not to mention that i have no reason to play Nukara with how the rewards work anyway.
Yes this is totally better, i do not HATE it like the last 2 Boxes, i just DON'T CARE anymore.
So i have more time actually ENJOYING the GAME.
In their defense, they do pay for the servers, the staff and the rest.
I would of liked them more if i didnt love tholians, if they werent one of my favorite species in star trek, and happy to finally be able to score a ship of theirs. So i sold aa car that ive been trying to sell for a while, got 2700 bucks out of it, putting that money into my 4 door for my kids/family car for me and want to build the motor up a little bit, so i took a few hundred out as play money. I took 180 bucks of it and bought zen, and then bought keys. I opened 180 worth of keys, and did not open ONE orb weaver, NOT ONE.
If someone is going to spend that much money cryptic, you should at least give them one good freaking ship instead of a fistfull of TRIBBLE, because im never spending that kind of money, or any money in the z store ever again now because of this. I could of seen one of the last few boxes maybe giving me a orb weaver, but none of them out of 180 bucks worth of keys? Its a freaking joke, i know its gambling but when i see so many of these things flash on the screen, and then see and hear of one guy getting 5 in a row...tell me how is this fair? How is this freaking fair to customers. Im done giving money to this game because thsi has ruined it for me with one of my favorite species. I got my recluse, but all i wanted was my tholian web.... And dont consider this as a u mad bro type thread, more of a im dissapointed with where this game has gone when i was holding out my faith in it. My faith is truly gone in it . 3 years of waiting for sto to launch from when i got the first word of the whisper of a rumor online and my dream game is finally dieing in my eyes....and ive stuck up on this game for everything.......but now that ive actually spent money on these lockboxes, more than 10-20 bucks, almost 200 bucks and got JACK ****.....yah it shows where the game is going.
I took 180 bucks of it and bought zen, and then bought keys. I opened 180 worth of keys, and did not open ONE orb weaver, NOT ONE.
Oh man... Why didn't you sell the keys on exchange and buy Orb Weaver for EC? 180 dollars equals 18000 Zen (correct me if I'm wrong - I'm silver). You bought 160 keys for that. If you sold them, you would have had from 160 million to 240 million EC. You could buy two, maybe three Weavers for that!
Agree Tholian lock boxes are a win. I got 50 some lobi in one box. I got both mirror universe ships, a bunch of the fleet buff things, every single type of war specialist I can't be dissapointed from that.
Comments
And again totally ignores the concept of personal responsibility.
Also, how do you know the game is a "teen" environment? Being rated teen and having a majority of your playerbase actually being teenaged are two different things. Didn't I read somewhere that the average age of an online gamer is mid-30's?
Also, you didn't answer the question where I asked if you seriously believe PWE/Cryptic would make as much money with your idea of everything in the c-store vs their idea of c-store/lockboxes.
I actually just opened 20 Ferengi boxes yesterday. I like trying to score some good Photonic DOffs.
They sell for less because they're just worth less, regardless of rarity. They're more or less re-skins of ships (I believe the MU Star Cruiser = Assault Cruiser, and MU Assault Cruiser = Star Cruiser?), whereas the other ships all have unique qualities.
::: ROTFLMAO ...
I'm glad to see that the difference in environments WAS taken into account.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Personal responsibility is what the rating is for, to assure parents the game issued material will be age appropriate for teenagers and gambling with real money to bet prizes is way outside the box. Minors are not required to have personal responsibility, that is why they cannot enter into binding contracts for credit cards, marriage, and gambling. The reason being is the law does not find them responsible in these circumstances.
Yes I think they would make more money.....i like to know what I am buying. So many could except getting what they paid for, more than the numbers of players continuously condemning this poor behavior that has violated the communites trust
and minors can only participate in the gambling either with resources earned in game (dilithium traded to buy keys, no money involved) or with their own money (personal responsible for how they spend it) or with money given to them by their parents/caretakers (parents responsibility).
And of course no one can hold minors responsible for entering into contracts and marriage. We aren't talking about that. We are talking about people taking responsibility for how they spend their own disposible income. Minors still make decisions regarding what they will buy, last I checked.
Good try thou.
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.
http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp
That covers the usual gamut of what content in game will lead to school shootings or devil worshipping, but nothing about parents doing their job and not letting little Jimmy or Sally go crazy with C-store purchases.
And before we continue this cry of "But think of the children!", who do you think actually buys keys?
13 year olds who throw a tantrum because they want to open up lockboxes of the month for a Tholian ship? (who is 13 right now and knew what a Tholian is before S6 or think the ships look cooler than the Armitage?)
Or ye olde TOS Trekkie collectorman who has too much disposable income or will sell his kidneys for a bottle of Spock's sweat on ebay?
Refrain from projecting your own disdain of company direction through adolescent meatshields. It's disgusting when soccer moms do it and its doubly depressing when STO forumers try it.
Minors technically are not responsible for how they spend their income,because they can not be expected to understand a simple purchase agreement, therefore the seller holds liability when selling to minors they are exempts from binding disclaimers, because they are under an age of a culpable mental state to be held responsible. This mental state my also exempt them from being prosecuted from criminal acts.
Thank you.
Keep dancing around the issue with off-point comparisons. It makes your argument look better.
Except, it really doesn't.
Sovereignman expressed it much better than I ever could. Please read his post.
I read his post it makes my point simulated gambling is with simulated currencies......not real ones. I do not dance.....it is what it is no matter how you try to rationalize it.
You are dancing the Houdini because you're trying to make something out of nothing.
A tiny square with a T on it is not a substitute for a parent doing their job. Something that is outside the box requires you to use what's in the box, your brain.
There is nothing predatory at work here. PWE is not selling heroin to minors at the local schoolyard regardless of how you feel when STO went F2P and lockboxes came about.
There is no lawsuit or government babysitting necessary when the parent is doing their job of monitoring their child's activities, financial or otherwise.
Here in the United States of China we call that, "personal responsibility".
+1 (wish I could explain things so clearly)
I was informed where on the exchange they were, and I couldn't help myself 'stealing' one for a bit over 1 mil EC. My shuttle rocks the vault now.
...Now I need to decide what to do with all those stacks of boxes clogging my bank.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Are you suggesting that people from the ages of 13 - 17 do not understand a simple purchase agreement? Because I'm reasonably sure that money management is taught from a very young age.
Any teen that has the disposable income, a credit card, and no parental supervision of online spending, already has problems more serious than gambling.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I'm assuming the Orb Weaver and Carrier have the same bridge. If so, yesthe button was an awesome little find and I'm glad it wasn't obvious (like the Doff console is.)
However, I was excited and disappointed about the ceiling. When you look up and realize that the room is essentially 14 sided and the walls and ceiling parts are copies of the floor you are on, my initial reaction was WHOA! But then it was Awww, when I DIDN'T see my other BOFFs manning terminals on the "other" bridges... ala an Escher painting!
It would have been a nice touch to the craziness of the bridge, the Tholians in general, and a way to see more than 2 BOFFs on your "bridge."
That "aw shucks" moment aside, nice work on the bridge and the ships.
If I could make 1 request, it would be to revisit the Borg piece visuals on the ship. The shields look like there are smudges of green on the hull, instead of the circuit board feel other ships get. The engine on th back looks awesome, but the part that extends onto the hull is just floating there (keep in mind I only have the Carrier.) Also, the deflector is rather comical with how big it gets! It reminded me of Nero's ship in the Abrams Trek.
This, starting with a desperate need to take their parents to court for willful neglect.
they were made common so every player in the game wouldnt complain of box spamm better having one player that for reason was to farm them that the whole of sto getting spamm
guess thats why they said the life surport has been altered so u can have to use a ev suit
so uh...where would this stuff be on the exchange?
And that's why the lockboxes aren't considered gambling under the law -- because you always get /something/ for your money.
To be considered gambling under the law, someone would have to lose (i.e. get nothing for their money), and that's not happening here.
Lockboxes are more like the games at a carnival or fair -- everybody pays money to throw softballs at a target, hoping to win the giant stuffed toy bear -- but most people win balloons or temporary tattoos instead.
Everybody gets something, even if they don't think it's worthy of the ticket price.
KFS
i like them to paid 120$ and have all 3 tholian ships and love them all i got lots of master keys and got the ships with the EC i made from the master keys
system Lord Baal is dead
these boxes ARE better
they are
- less annoying (don't drop every 2nd kill)
- do not clutter my inventory
- i do not have to rightclick>dismiss that crazy often
- they have so sh*tty rewards that i don't even care to open them (a Star Wars Sword? Ships that were never on the show? (and are useless to me personally if i look at the Stats, all of them!), plus some very very uninteresting off duty clothing options,
yay thx for saving me some money-grind Crytpic, more of that please!)
the only thing thats worse is that there is even more Bind on Pickup stuff in the Lobi Store, good thing i don't want any of it.
I totally would have expected to see the First Contact suit in the Lobi Store, yet they've gone the Greed [x2] route and put a $ sign on the Mk XII loot from Nukara (yay now i don't want to play their new content either!) and put the Suit that i wanted as a 700 Zen PER CHAR unlock in the C-Store woohoo you can keep that too because i'm not paying that 11 times for all my chars, not to mention that i have no reason to play Nukara with how the rewards work anyway.
Yes this is totally better, i do not HATE it like the last 2 Boxes, i just DON'T CARE anymore.
So i have more time actually ENJOYING the GAME.
I would of liked them more if i didnt love tholians, if they werent one of my favorite species in star trek, and happy to finally be able to score a ship of theirs. So i sold aa car that ive been trying to sell for a while, got 2700 bucks out of it, putting that money into my 4 door for my kids/family car for me and want to build the motor up a little bit, so i took a few hundred out as play money. I took 180 bucks of it and bought zen, and then bought keys. I opened 180 worth of keys, and did not open ONE orb weaver, NOT ONE.
If someone is going to spend that much money cryptic, you should at least give them one good freaking ship instead of a fistfull of TRIBBLE, because im never spending that kind of money, or any money in the z store ever again now because of this. I could of seen one of the last few boxes maybe giving me a orb weaver, but none of them out of 180 bucks worth of keys? Its a freaking joke, i know its gambling but when i see so many of these things flash on the screen, and then see and hear of one guy getting 5 in a row...tell me how is this fair? How is this freaking fair to customers. Im done giving money to this game because thsi has ruined it for me with one of my favorite species. I got my recluse, but all i wanted was my tholian web.... And dont consider this as a u mad bro type thread, more of a im dissapointed with where this game has gone when i was holding out my faith in it. My faith is truly gone in it
Banshee
Bloodthristy
Guild - <Lords of The Dead>
LvL 60 CW-Dragon Server
They do seem to be dropping a little more often lately, but it isn't too bad..... yet...