+8 power total seems about right, considering single power consoles do +4 max to single system or so.
Also it has a passive ability that is always active if you keep shooting. Most consoles have active effect with much lower "power" and on 3 min cooldown. Passives should always be much more weaker than actives.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
In a nuttshell: yes, the leech was OP on stacking and it was fine by me that it would be nerved down. But again: the nerve has completely overshoot its target. Period.
+8 power total seems about right, considering single power consoles do +4 max to single system or so.
Also it has a passive ability that is always active if you keep shooting. Most consoles have active effect with much lower "power" and on 3 min cooldown. Passives should always be much more weaker than actives.
Yeah well, except those power consoles are complete junk as well.
u r one fuking idiot op..because of u blabbering the
console was nerfed...fuking noob idiots and ur need to glorify urself as build makers...
Are you, by a chance related to Jar Jar Binks ?
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I think we all agree that leech was TRIBBLE and it needed a fix. Some of us (myself included) don't agree with the fact that is was too "fixed" and Borticus said they intend to fix the energy gain back to how it was and only leave the stacking on target fix. So far those are the facts.
Now, I see two more problems on this forum:
one is some people saying that since other consoles were nerfed and are useless, leech should have the same faith. I believe this is a very wrong approach, not for leech in particular, but for the whole idea in general. If your dog dies, should the neighbor's die also? Or is something stupid happen, we should let that happen in the future because we have a precedent?
Second, there are people here that propose some behaviors for a newly fixed leech, and I think that is a good way to go. Maybe cryptic finds a way to implement some ideas, maybe not. But at least those people try to do something, other than being happy/******** for the leech "fix".
Also, I personally don't care if I paid money or not for a console, but you pretty much got the leech behaving in a way and now it doesn't. And to be honest that's not fair either. As also leech stacking multiple times is not fair also for the fed player. But I'm sure we can have a normal behavior that won't include extremes.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
u r one fuking idiot op..because of u blabbering the
console was nerfed...fuking noob idiots and ur need to glorify urself as build makers...
Winner of the first annual, Faceroller Award right here folks. You managed to out do some serious competition kid. You should feel proud.
Now for the serious bit.
There's two opinions I have on leech. 1 it shouldn't have been nerfed at all because the Bug, and Dkora still exist.
My more fair and impartial side 2: It definitely got hit too hard, at this point it is easily worse than a power boost console, and those got kicked in the junk so hard that they are now virtually useless themselves. As stupidly annoying as AMS is, they didn't touch it at all. (funny the klink exclusive console got kicked in the junk but the feddy one didn't ) AMS is still more powerful than any other console you could put in it's place. There's no opp cost with it either. Yet Leech was the one that got it. 8 drain and 8 power boost was fine. If anything it helped make up for the flat out disadvantage klink ships have compared to fed ones. (and the only exception to this is the new Fleet Cruisers, compared to the joke worthy fed ones... too bad the klinks lost out MUCH more than they gained in Fleet Escorts, and BOPs vs Fed Fleet Escorts, and Fleet Sci ships). The whole problem came from the fact you could stack 40 leeches on target.
1 leech I don't think anyone here is going to say, other than the most stupid of us was a problem. The problem was 5 leeches.
And even then, leech's real problem stemmed from the fact that there was no applicable resistance to it. Had they fixed this, by applying the same borderlined overkill 50 percent resistance that all sci type skills have I think leech would be fine.
Cryptic, you have Resistance skills, how about actually making sure they work before you go and tweak powers blindly. That way when you discover "oh **** the resistance doesn't actually work" you do not inadvertently nerf a given ability Twice and send it to the useless pile.
+8 power total seems about right, considering single power consoles do +4 max to single system or so.
Also it has a passive ability that is always active if you keep shooting. Most consoles have active effect with much lower "power" and on 3 min cooldown. Passives should always be much more weaker than actives.
Agree, i would make it gain 5 unspeced and 10 -12 fully speced with 2-3 flow cap consoles. IMO that's a fair trade for skill points and sci console used.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Hey I can post again....guess that's one good thing about the new forums.
Personally, I think the real problem is that the console was supposed to have been fixed according to the devs a long time ago. I don't recall the exact patch notes but they clearly stated that while you might be getting hit by five people using leech you would not suffer a drain beyond two full consoles. The people shooting you would still get the power boost but you wouldnt suffer from 5 consoles worth of drain.
In my opinion a properly working leech is essential to help offset the MACO shield. I know feds don't think that shield helps that much but you are getting a passive power boost from just getting shot while not having to waste a console slot either. Plus the 10% all energy weapon resistance, 5% absorption, oh and high cap level isnt bad either.
Should you be able to have 50 drains on you? Of course not....nobody that I know wants that either. However, if the console is made completely worthless then it does leave a pretty big void in the KDF arms race....which we are already behind in.
I don't even care about the power drain I just want the power level boost. Or just take the KHG placate proc that was nerfed to hell and put a passive MACO like power boost on it. Oh and why not just make any future sets/consoles faction neutral like the Borg set? You will waste less time developing junk, less time having to nerf stuff, and probably hear less complaining.
Well even 2 stacks worth of leach would have been to much imo anyway. Maco is not the obvious choice for everyone... I have mk xii macos on pretty much all my toons and I don't use any of them. Its a good shield but not the best option all the time....
Honesty what I think would be even a better option as far as the arms race argument goes... is to simply make the other factions STF stuff an option. Perhaps they cost 1 STF part +10 chips or something to bribe the local Ferengi to miss place a shipment in your cargo hold. Or to make the idea sweeter to Cryptic and man do i hate this one.. 25 lobi Crystals or some TRIBBLE.
Maybe its just me, but it is not the smartest solution to change an item from
"Oh, it can be exploited if used by many on the same enemy"
to
"OK, it is completly useles"
..+3 in each subsystem while useing 2 purple MKXI flow capacitors is a waste of space
It's a shame that there is almost no synergy of effects in this game (aka "the sum is greater than its parts).
But I understand the message:
"dont use any other tactical console than your weapon energy buff"
"dont use any othe sci console than field generator"
"use eng. console slots fpr universal modules"
Known issue. Unfortunately not caught due to code merger issues. It is under investigation - that's all I can share at this time until we get closer to resolution.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Hey I love the idea of just giving all factions access to the same STF gear. It would probably make most everyone happy.
I want a Maco on my klink so bad. I'm still flying ith my res cap 3 mkX on my klink. I have an omega, and borg on standby.. but the lack of bleed through has spoiled me completely.
The thing is that I don't think anyone would defend the MACO shield as being balanced either. It's certainly way too good even without the semi-exploitable energy proc.
I think part of the problem is that on-hit effects are very difficult to balance because there's so little cost on the user's part for getting their benefits. Plasmonic leech triggers with any shot from a basic energy weapon, and what do you give up to have that effect? A Sci console? Same with MACO.
It's also kind of lame when a store console does a better job of power draining than the game's actual Science abilities.
I want a Maco on my klink so bad. I'm still flying ith my res cap 3 mkX on my klink. I have an omega, and borg on standby.. but the lack of bleed through has spoiled me completely.
the KHG shield is great and all, but just EPtS1 and TSS1 cannot fill that shield back up effectively, its a drop in the bucket. that shield is best used on a greedy build with EPtS3 or something. sure its great for getting refilled with RSP or distro doffs, but you end up using those much sooner then you would like. a maco for my klink would dramatically boost survivability
Here is a MACO MK XII on a SC and the leech console info. I haven't ran leech in ages so I really don't give a TRIBBLE. It's pointless, it was bugged, people should've stopped stacking leech on teams. But let's ask another question, did 5 man ISC teams running leech really stop the 3-5 man fleet teams from winning? I have never been on a team that lost to a team from ISC. That includes pugging.
With that said, leech is half (base stats) what the MACO shield provides. The placate on the KHG is stupid. Never have liked that proc. Oh no, they can't see me for 2 seconds and now they have to retarget me. Oh no. If I wanted that, I'd just add jam sensors.
I'd take the MACO over KHG anyday of the week. the SC with the MK XII MACO and 2 blue BFI doffs is insane. With that said, my KDF cruiser, does decent enough with a MK X KHG, but if I'm not with a teammate that can send an extend to me, I will swap my LT/LTC engy abilities for epts3. It's difficult to be support + greedy with that shield.
The Omega shield, ran that on a vorcha and used to run it on a bortas, it was super bada$$ and awesome. constantly cycling epts1/3 on that shield is just insane. Add your BFI and diaper for emergencies.
The MACO still trumps all on a cruiser, IMO. Cross-faction gear FTW. And more KDF escorts please. I find it amazing that the KDF is support to be the tactical/war hungry faction yet we get the weakest ship in the game, (bop.) And the bop isn't even the most agile anymore (SERIOUSLY!)
Blackjack nailed it right, would be nice to have cross faction gear. Maybe the easiest way to fix many things... Sort of.
Also agree, bop is a joke. At least make some boxes bops that are better. Better hull and one more comsole. Since pl was "fixed" I dumped the bortasqu (to fly it w/o leech, I had to modify my "fun" build, dump torp spread, target engines and pol hull, re-arrange boffs and go with standard 8 beamer and cycle epw and eps. Found myself flying in circles and pressing space bar. Then falling asleep... Lol No offense for cruisers pilots, but I one hate that.). For the first time I dust out the bug. Got it months ago but never used it. That is by far the best escort in the game (I know, many said it but I never tried it). That (maybe not so op) should be a model for a bop - with less hull maybe. And dontdrunk, I now agree with you, that little sh*t is way op. Bug vs bop, you don't even have to try too hard to win. I'll post some values in regards to output damage, with 5 tac energy consoles vs 4. I have a hunch the difference is not as insignificant as I thought.
In regards to hg shield, w/o using at least a epts2 and tss2, kind of hard to fill...especially when having a bug whipping your rear.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Just saying this "YES to cross faction gear sets!"
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Agree, i would make it gain 5 unspeced and 10 -12 fully speced with 2-3 flow cap consoles. IMO that's a fair trade for skill points and sci console used.
well your opinion is that of a fed player .not a klingon player nor one who actually payed the 10$ to buy that ship in the first place....i did
the only reason to buy any C store ship is that they are unique in a way ...that was this ship unique attribute.
i am fully speced on flows and yet i get with it and massive shooting +2 on a best day
yea it gave up to 8 times stack ..but so what?? the only problem is that it just was suppose to be considered on the oponnent side ...he should be able to be stack leeched.
oh wait a minute...power siphon skill can be stacked..what do u know.....
and sensor scan??? and attack pattern beta...
should we nerf them all as well???
but lets say for an instance those pvp players are right...leech was so strong yada yada yada....so once again ...let only one use it ....or even better the benefit would still be the same but the affect on the opponent would be just as one ..
once again ..a 2 continous energy sipohns with the doffs to match it would draing ur energy 30 all across the board for 50 sec out of every minute...i know cause i have this ship with this build on the fed side...and thats just one ship ...all the while adding me the same amount......sounds familiar???? get two of those ships on one player in pvp and all u need is another tac to pop him in 5 sec....
feds have a lot of their own things..klink have theirs...deal with it ..or switch to klingon ...
when u pay 10$ for a whole ship that got completely nerfed and now is useless yea u get angry ..when it happens more than once imagine the feelings.....
so yea dont stack it from multiple oponnents ..lets say ok ..i rlly couldnt be bothered with that as PVP in this game suks anyways....but individual benefit???...not ur call or others with ur suggestions of 8 and 10 or what ever ..
if u want them to nerf something how bout the federation new flight pets....or the fact u suddenly have flight deck officers with reduced recharge to hanger bays ...or the intrepid console???...list goes on and on ..
yet u dont see any klingon side threads that cry about it all the time.
well your opinion is that of a fed player .not a klingon player nor one who actually payed the 10$ to buy that ship in the first place....i did
the only reason to buy any C store ship is that they are unique in a way ...that was this ship unique attribute.
i am fully speced on flows and yet i get with it and massive shooting +2 on a best day
yea it gave up to 8 times stack ..but so what?? the only problem is that it just was suppose to be considered on the oponnent side ...he should be able to be stack leeched.
oh wait a minute...power siphon skill can be stacked..what do u know.....
and sensor scan??? and attack pattern beta...
should we nerf them all as well???
but lets say for an instance those pvp players are right...leech was so strong yada yada yada....so once again ...let only one use it ....or even better the benefit would still be the same but the affect on the opponent would be just as one ..
once again ..a 2 continous energy sipohns with the doffs to match it would draing ur energy 30 all across the board for 50 sec out of every minute...i know cause i have this ship with this build on the fed side...and thats just one ship ...all the while adding me the same amount......sounds familiar???? get two of those ships on one player in pvp and all u need is another tac to pop him in 5 sec....
feds have a lot of their own things..klink have theirs...deal with it ..or switch to klingon ...
when u pay 10$ for a whole ship that got completely nerfed and now is useless yea u get angry ..when it happens more than once imagine the feelings.....
so yea dont stack it from multiple oponnents ..lets say ok ..i rlly couldnt be bothered with that as PVP in this game suks anyways....but individual benefit???...not ur call or others with ur suggestions of 8 and 10 or what ever ..
if u want them to nerf something how bout the federation new flight pets....or the fact u suddenly have flight deck officers with reduced recharge to hanger bays ...or the intrepid console???...list goes on and on ..
yet u dont see any klingon side threads that cry about it all the time.
Lol. Lol bc you get my post too personal. It's an opinion. And an opinion I believe in. Feds have/had issues also (energy wake, phaser procs - this isn't really fed but mostly Feds used phasers, etc). To your surprise, a confession: I play 99% as Klingon. I also had purchased the leech. And this pl "fix" messed my bortasqu fun build that I had. So I hate it. But in the sense of fairness, the power gain (before fix) from the leech is too good. I like it, but was a bit too much. Now, the stacking on target is a different story, cryptic only wanted to address that, but they "fix" also stacking for the owner. More than likely they will address the last, so the energy gain from the leech will be back.
Some of the other things you mention are also a cause of imballance, I agree, but I was referring to only the leech since this post is about it. If you'd like some opinions on something else, open a new thread and folks will share their thoughts. There are some threads on pvp about siphons, doffs, you name it, lol. But just remember (in case you forgot, lol) this is a pvp forum and we share our thoughts from pvp point of view (most of us don't want to see a faction decisive advantage because this just jacks up the fun). Most of us don't really care about pve, or care less. And even if we would be pve fans, those changes don't really affect pve that much, lol. Would be funny though to hear a pvp hardcore saying that a deredix is too hard to kill...
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Personally, I think the real problem is that the console was supposed to have been fixed according to the devs a long time ago. I don't recall the exact patch notes but they clearly stated that while you might be getting hit by five people using leech you would not suffer a drain beyond two full consoles. The people shooting you would still get the power boost but you wouldnt suffer from 5 consoles worth of drain.
tHIS^^^. It was suppossedly fixed a long while back but it got broke again (imagine that) somehwere and was back to its old overstacking days.
Of course the recent re-fix has overshot the the issue and nerfed it beyond use, which is Cryptics method of fixing things. Wide swings of the nerf hammer that eventually get back to being centered.
well your opinion is that of a fed player .not a klingon player nor one who actually payed the 10$ to buy that ship in the first place....i did
the only reason to buy any C store ship is that they are unique in a way ...that was this ship unique attribute.
i am fully speced on flows and yet i get with it and massive shooting +2 on a best day
yea it gave up to 8 times stack ..but so what?? the only problem is that it just was suppose to be considered on the oponnent side ...he should be able to be stack leeched.
oh wait a minute...power siphon skill can be stacked..what do u know.....
and sensor scan??? and attack pattern beta...
should we nerf them all as well???
but lets say for an instance those pvp players are right...leech was so strong yada yada yada....so once again ...let only one use it ....or even better the benefit would still be the same but the affect on the opponent would be just as one ..
once again ..a 2 continous energy sipohns with the doffs to match it would draing ur energy 30 all across the board for 50 sec out of every minute...i know cause i have this ship with this build on the fed side...and thats just one ship ...all the while adding me the same amount......sounds familiar???? get two of those ships on one player in pvp and all u need is another tac to pop him in 5 sec....
feds have a lot of their own things..klink have theirs...deal with it ..or switch to klingon ...
when u pay 10$ for a whole ship that got completely nerfed and now is useless yea u get angry ..when it happens more than once imagine the feelings.....
so yea dont stack it from multiple oponnents ..lets say ok ..i rlly couldnt be bothered with that as PVP in this game suks anyways....but individual benefit???...not ur call or others with ur suggestions of 8 and 10 or what ever ..
if u want them to nerf something how bout the federation new flight pets....or the fact u suddenly have flight deck officers with reduced recharge to hanger bays ...or the intrepid console???...list goes on and on ..
yet u dont see any klingon side threads that cry about it all the time.
I get that you aren't a pvper. But I will type slowly for you.
You didn't have to be a klink player (and I am one. Infact I'm in the process of becoming primarily kdf since there are frankly an over abundance of Fed Premades out there. It's time someone shows willingness to help balance the scales.) to see what made the Leech so bad. The 8 stack? That was not an issue.
The issue, was the 40 stack that you got when 5 ships focused the same target. There is literally 0 defense against this other than hope maybe you get a lucky tric shot or 3 to kill the people shooting you all at once. You could use EPS Power Transfer, Batteries, Emergency Power you name it, and your power level would not budge 1 point. Frankly the 40 stacking 24/7 with 0 down time took the fun out of KvF for me. And KvK. Because it made it far far too easy. It was a skill replacement.
Energy siphon does not even do remotely close to what you claim it does, and infact it's one of the most useless skills in the game for several factors, not the least among them, is that Power Insulators makes a farce out of it. I can tell you don't actually use the skill, or you only use it in lolpve, because otherwise you'd notice just how totally TRIBBLE it is. Oh not only that Esiphon is cleared by ST.
Sen Scan is clearable by Sci Team, APB is unlikely to ever stack past 1 application of APB, due to Tac Team. There are working counters. There was not one for leech.
Let me guess you think Jam Sensors and boarding party are the bees knees as well.
Ahhh right here you admit you don't pvp. Yeah, your opinion on Abilities, means nothing then. Go back to Drozana, kid.
Actually the KDF whine all the time. Especially when my overload sends their precious consoled little steroided shuttles that try to pass them selves off as bops to the Respawn point, over and over again.
There are some legit Grievances in this game and contrary to your lil faceroller's beliefs, Leech was indeed one of them.
Yes the Gibbing went far too far. Yes I can come up with drain builds that still work without it, and Team Loadouts to compliment it. That being said, the 40 stack needed to go, and if you had ever pvped you'd know that. Oh and for the record, working drain builds don't have lolenergysiphon.
well your opinion is that of a fed player .not a klingon player nor one who actually payed the 10$ to buy that ship in the first place....i did
the only reason to buy any C store ship is that they are unique in a way ...that was this ship unique attribute.
i am fully speced on flows and yet i get with it and massive shooting +2 on a best day
yea it gave up to 8 times stack ..but so what?? the only problem is that it just was suppose to be considered on the oponnent side ...he should be able to be stack leeched.
oh wait a minute...power siphon skill can be stacked..what do u know.....
and sensor scan??? and attack pattern beta...
should we nerf them all as well???
but lets say for an instance those pvp players are right...leech was so strong yada yada yada....so once again ...let only one use it ....or even better the benefit would still be the same but the affect on the opponent would be just as one ..
once again ..a 2 continous energy sipohns with the doffs to match it would draing ur energy 30 all across the board for 50 sec out of every minute...i know cause i have this ship with this build on the fed side...and thats just one ship ...all the while adding me the same amount......sounds familiar???? get two of those ships on one player in pvp and all u need is another tac to pop him in 5 sec....
feds have a lot of their own things..klink have theirs...deal with it ..or switch to klingon ...
when u pay 10$ for a whole ship that got completely nerfed and now is useless yea u get angry ..when it happens more than once imagine the feelings.....
so yea dont stack it from multiple oponnents ..lets say ok ..i rlly couldnt be bothered with that as PVP in this game suks anyways....but individual benefit???...not ur call or others with ur suggestions of 8 and 10 or what ever ..
if u want them to nerf something how bout the federation new flight pets....or the fact u suddenly have flight deck officers with reduced recharge to hanger bays ...or the intrepid console???...list goes on and on ..
yet u dont see any klingon side threads that cry about it all the time.
first of all i said i dont pvp now ...never said i didnt ...just gotten fed up with it as its such a broken system and enough said about that...not to mention it gotten real hard to find good KDF teams.
second i am no kid nor far from it money wise had no problem spending a mere 10$ and much more if i ever wanted...this is not to point..
point is as a programmer myself ( yea see the not kid info ) ...and even if i wasnt they set out to do one simple thing..prevent multiple leech from multiple opponents and instead of affecting the receiver aspect affected the user aspect..
more over they havnt even took the time to test it properly as what they claim in the patch notes is clearly not true..
even if it was the case for them they just made a 800C points or 1000Z completely useless..not half ..not quarter or 90% ..but useless ...
there are not many that do PVP ..just try que one up and see how much time it takes to do it ..yet for PVP players the entire ship got nerfed...same thing happened with siphon drones and with theta radiation ..only non of the latter was completely destroyed..this one right here did..
good for you that you gloat but a thing aimed at us right now would be aimed at u as well at some point ....
but while on the subject ..the very thing that broke pvp is maybe the ability to multiple stack same abilities on the same opponent which i was always very much against it..
so yea dont nerf siphonss ..just prevent it from multiple sources...same as for beta pattern energy siphon sensor scan subnuke etc etc.
by your approach every one of these things should not only be nerfed from multiple opponents but nerfed as a power from the get go ..
this is the time to mention how many times i found here all sort of people crying about the power of subnuke and Sensor scan....
The Devs broke it in an attempt to fix it. They do this often and even explained it as the method they use when they fix something. Find both extremes of a power, the nerfed and the OP and then work it back to a middle ground that is balanced.
Plasmonic Leech like the VTR was broken, they are attempting to fix it.
We can only hope they do not take forever to get to that middle ground.
first of all i said i dont pvp now ...never said i didnt ...just gotten fed up with it as its such a broken system and enough said about that...not to mention it gotten real hard to find good KDF teams.
second i am no kid nor far from it money wise had no problem spending a mere 10$ and much more if i ever wanted...this is not to point..
point is as a programmer myself ( yea see the not kid info ) ...and even if i wasnt they set out to do one simple thing..prevent multiple leech from multiple opponents and instead of affecting the receiver aspect affected the user aspect..
more over they havnt even took the time to test it properly as what they claim in the patch notes is clearly not true..
even if it was the case for them they just made a 800C points or 1000Z completely useless..not half ..not quarter or 90% ..but useless ...
there are not many that do PVP ..just try que one up and see how much time it takes to do it ..yet for PVP players the entire ship got nerfed...same thing happened with siphon drones and with theta radiation ..only non of the latter was completely destroyed..this one right here did..
good for you that you gloat but a thing aimed at us right now would be aimed at u as well at some point ....
but while on the subject ..the very thing that broke pvp is maybe the ability to multiple stack same abilities on the same opponent which i was always very much against it..
so yea dont nerf siphonss ..just prevent it from multiple sources...same as for beta pattern energy siphon sensor scan subnuke etc etc.
by your approach every one of these things should not only be nerfed from multiple opponents but nerfed as a power from the get go ..
this is the time to mention how many times i found here all sort of people crying about the power of subnuke and Sensor scan....
First for a programmer, your post formatting? Is The Suck. So basically because you are an adult (allegedly) who has a big wallet. You think it is okay to simply open said wallet and auto win? To me that is utterly boring any dunce can do that. Any dunce that can not properly spell, or even somewhat spell properly or form proper complete sentences, and paragraphs can do that, as you're proving right now.
No one is arguing that leech is okay right now. No one that is being serious anyway. Cryptic bungled it, like usual and they have vowed to fix it. You need to get off the rag about it already.
As a matter of fact there are some pretty intelligent people here, that have several ideas on how to fix leech properly. Not just "make it so it never stacks past 8". But you're too busy being on the rag to see it.
Siphon drones are ludicrously strong, kid. I have done testing on that unlike yourself, and they are more than capable of draining someone dry, like a vampire high on meth.
And again, attack pattern beta is pretty much lulz for more than one ship to be carrying due to tac team right now, as the best you can hope for realistically speaking? Is 1 copy hitting, thanks to Tac team. Esiphon? Is The Suck, much like your posting ability, even if it does stack from multiple sources (which it doesn't) you can easily clear it with sci team. Not that you would need to since it's drain has always been utterly pathetic. Sensor scan? Funny Sci team clears it too.
What I think you are trying to say, but I'm not certain of because you're borderlined illiterate right now is that you just want leech to be good, and put back to 40 stacks of Auto Win, because you can't win without your target having a permanent minus 40 to all power levels. Yes?
Actually by my approach which you don't seem to be capable of grasping, (because you're on the rag. Seriously man, get some pills for that PMS problem you have there) I would bring powers down, some up. And leave some alone. Because unlike you, who doesn't pvp. I know where things stand right now. (Coincidentally also unlike Gecko, who's too stupid to figure anything out)
You see, nerfing and buffing is not a mutually exclusive thing, nor do you have to do it to multiple things at a time.
I've been nerfed, buffed, and all points between over the last two years. I have done to the best of my ability, adapted to various changes, balance passes etc and have done my best to help others along the way.
Maybe when you grow up, or get some treatment for your rag issues, and actually game more than play at drozana with your dress up dolls, whining about how allegedly useless your ship is now that you lost one console, you'll see that.
first of all i said i dont pvp now ...never said i didnt ...just gotten fed up with it as its such a broken system and enough said about that...not to mention it gotten real hard to find good KDF teams.
second i am no kid nor far from it money wise had no problem spending a mere 10$ and much more if i ever wanted...this is not to point..
point is as a programmer myself ( yea see the not kid info ) ...and even if i wasnt they set out to do one simple thing..prevent multiple leech from multiple opponents and instead of affecting the receiver aspect affected the user aspect..
more over they havnt even took the time to test it properly as what they claim in the patch notes is clearly not true..
even if it was the case for them they just made a 800C points or 1000Z completely useless..not half ..not quarter or 90% ..but useless ...
there are not many that do PVP ..just try que one up and see how much time it takes to do it ..yet for PVP players the entire ship got nerfed...same thing happened with siphon drones and with theta radiation ..only non of the latter was completely destroyed..this one right here did..
good for you that you gloat but a thing aimed at us right now would be aimed at u as well at some point ....
but while on the subject ..the very thing that broke pvp is maybe the ability to multiple stack same abilities on the same opponent which i was always very much against it..
so yea dont nerf siphonss ..just prevent it from multiple sources...same as for beta pattern energy siphon sensor scan subnuke etc etc.
by your approach every one of these things should not only be nerfed from multiple opponents but nerfed as a power from the get go ..
this is the time to mention how many times i found here all sort of people crying about the power of subnuke and Sensor scan....
Hey man, you don't need to let those things upset you. Really. Mostly on this forum people counter eachother but we are still friends at the end of the day, lol.
I haven't called you a kid, never thought you are and lastly I don't give a squat if you are or not. Common sense is related to education not to age.
Now, again, some of us have opinions that we discuss here. Some of us are wrong, and the hole point, for your own game experience is to realize and accept when you're wrong. Mav, even though is blunt, is one of the most experienced sto players in this forum, I wouldn't go on bashing him or others like him, at least till you don't have a solid proof.
You should not let your ego interfere with facts. I mostly play pug pvp and I can tell you that most pvp fvk games are won by klings. So it's easier to win a pug as a kling than a fed, mainly because fed players are so many more vs klinks. Klings are "the few and the proud", lol, that's why they are better as percentage than Feds (not having solid data, just using my observations)
The fact that pvp sucks for people like you is mainly because Criptic had done almost nothing (except low priority help that we get from bort and jesse) to improve pvp experience for players that are totally inexperienced to moderately experienced. Trust me, we all know how much it takes to wait for a pvp match. That's the sad truth about the pvp state in sto...
Keep in mind that I don't want to TRIBBLE people up (pvper or pveer) with my crazy ideas (lol), but, as I said, some have ideas that we like to discuss, this is how we learn from eachother and enlarge our knowledge.
We are not crying for nerfs here, we try to find ways and ideas hoping that cryptic will listen to us (as a majority not minority) and make this game better and more fun. You wouldn't like getting trashed every time in pvp right? You learn to play, you became good, you meet focus fire from 4 people with leeches. Not nice to be blown apart by anybody, even the least experienced, just because of this jacked up leech.
Most of our talk is ment to be constructive. Just try to keep that in mind.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Comments
Also it has a passive ability that is always active if you keep shooting. Most consoles have active effect with much lower "power" and on 3 min cooldown. Passives should always be much more weaker than actives.
u r one fuking idiot op..because of u blabbering the
console was nerfed...fuking noob idiots and ur need to glorify urself as build makers...
Yeah well, except those power consoles are complete junk as well.
Are you, by a chance related to Jar Jar Binks ?
Now, I see two more problems on this forum:
one is some people saying that since other consoles were nerfed and are useless, leech should have the same faith. I believe this is a very wrong approach, not for leech in particular, but for the whole idea in general. If your dog dies, should the neighbor's die also? Or is something stupid happen, we should let that happen in the future because we have a precedent?
Second, there are people here that propose some behaviors for a newly fixed leech, and I think that is a good way to go. Maybe cryptic finds a way to implement some ideas, maybe not. But at least those people try to do something, other than being happy/******** for the leech "fix".
Also, I personally don't care if I paid money or not for a console, but you pretty much got the leech behaving in a way and now it doesn't. And to be honest that's not fair either. As also leech stacking multiple times is not fair also for the fed player. But I'm sure we can have a normal behavior that won't include extremes.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Winner of the first annual, Faceroller Award right here folks. You managed to out do some serious competition kid. You should feel proud.
Now for the serious bit.
There's two opinions I have on leech. 1 it shouldn't have been nerfed at all because the Bug, and Dkora still exist.
My more fair and impartial side 2: It definitely got hit too hard, at this point it is easily worse than a power boost console, and those got kicked in the junk so hard that they are now virtually useless themselves. As stupidly annoying as AMS is, they didn't touch it at all. (funny the klink exclusive console got kicked in the junk but the feddy one didn't ) AMS is still more powerful than any other console you could put in it's place. There's no opp cost with it either. Yet Leech was the one that got it. 8 drain and 8 power boost was fine. If anything it helped make up for the flat out disadvantage klink ships have compared to fed ones. (and the only exception to this is the new Fleet Cruisers, compared to the joke worthy fed ones... too bad the klinks lost out MUCH more than they gained in Fleet Escorts, and BOPs vs Fed Fleet Escorts, and Fleet Sci ships). The whole problem came from the fact you could stack 40 leeches on target.
1 leech I don't think anyone here is going to say, other than the most stupid of us was a problem. The problem was 5 leeches.
And even then, leech's real problem stemmed from the fact that there was no applicable resistance to it. Had they fixed this, by applying the same borderlined overkill 50 percent resistance that all sci type skills have I think leech would be fine.
Cryptic, you have Resistance skills, how about actually making sure they work before you go and tweak powers blindly. That way when you discover "oh **** the resistance doesn't actually work" you do not inadvertently nerf a given ability Twice and send it to the useless pile.
Agree, i would make it gain 5 unspeced and 10 -12 fully speced with 2-3 flow cap consoles. IMO that's a fair trade for skill points and sci console used.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
the reply button is on the top, not the bottom of the post :rolleyes:
sorry your favorite exploit was removed, now you will have to play fair
Personally, I think the real problem is that the console was supposed to have been fixed according to the devs a long time ago. I don't recall the exact patch notes but they clearly stated that while you might be getting hit by five people using leech you would not suffer a drain beyond two full consoles. The people shooting you would still get the power boost but you wouldnt suffer from 5 consoles worth of drain.
In my opinion a properly working leech is essential to help offset the MACO shield. I know feds don't think that shield helps that much but you are getting a passive power boost from just getting shot while not having to waste a console slot either. Plus the 10% all energy weapon resistance, 5% absorption, oh and high cap level isnt bad either.
Should you be able to have 50 drains on you? Of course not....nobody that I know wants that either. However, if the console is made completely worthless then it does leave a pretty big void in the KDF arms race....which we are already behind in.
I don't even care about the power drain I just want the power level boost. Or just take the KHG placate proc that was nerfed to hell and put a passive MACO like power boost on it. Oh and why not just make any future sets/consoles faction neutral like the Borg set? You will waste less time developing junk, less time having to nerf stuff, and probably hear less complaining.
P.S I didnt spell check
Honesty what I think would be even a better option as far as the arms race argument goes... is to simply make the other factions STF stuff an option. Perhaps they cost 1 STF part +10 chips or something to bribe the local Ferengi to miss place a shipment in your cargo hold. Or to make the idea sweeter to Cryptic and man do i hate this one.. 25 lobi Crystals or some TRIBBLE.
"Oh, it can be exploited if used by many on the same enemy"
to
"OK, it is completly useles"
..+3 in each subsystem while useing 2 purple MKXI flow capacitors is a waste of space
It's a shame that there is almost no synergy of effects in this game (aka "the sum is greater than its parts).
But I understand the message:
"dont use any other tactical console than your weapon energy buff"
"dont use any othe sci console than field generator"
"use eng. console slots fpr universal modules"
..ok, ok get it... :rolleyes:
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I want a Maco on my klink so bad. I'm still flying ith my res cap 3 mkX on my klink. I have an omega, and borg on standby.. but the lack of bleed through has spoiled me completely.
I think part of the problem is that on-hit effects are very difficult to balance because there's so little cost on the user's part for getting their benefits. Plasmonic leech triggers with any shot from a basic energy weapon, and what do you give up to have that effect? A Sci console? Same with MACO.
It's also kind of lame when a store console does a better job of power draining than the game's actual Science abilities.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
the KHG shield is great and all, but just EPtS1 and TSS1 cannot fill that shield back up effectively, its a drop in the bucket. that shield is best used on a greedy build with EPtS3 or something. sure its great for getting refilled with RSP or distro doffs, but you end up using those much sooner then you would like. a maco for my klink would dramatically boost survivability
With that said, leech is half (base stats) what the MACO shield provides. The placate on the KHG is stupid. Never have liked that proc. Oh no, they can't see me for 2 seconds and now they have to retarget me. Oh no. If I wanted that, I'd just add jam sensors.
I'd take the MACO over KHG anyday of the week. the SC with the MK XII MACO and 2 blue BFI doffs is insane. With that said, my KDF cruiser, does decent enough with a MK X KHG, but if I'm not with a teammate that can send an extend to me, I will swap my LT/LTC engy abilities for epts3. It's difficult to be support + greedy with that shield.
The Omega shield, ran that on a vorcha and used to run it on a bortas, it was super bada$$ and awesome. constantly cycling epts1/3 on that shield is just insane. Add your BFI and diaper for emergencies.
The MACO still trumps all on a cruiser, IMO. Cross-faction gear FTW. And more KDF escorts please. I find it amazing that the KDF is support to be the tactical/war hungry faction yet we get the weakest ship in the game, (bop.) And the bop isn't even the most agile anymore (SERIOUSLY!)
http://oi46.tinypic.com/2dhy9at.jpg
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Also agree, bop is a joke. At least make some boxes bops that are better. Better hull and one more comsole. Since pl was "fixed" I dumped the bortasqu (to fly it w/o leech, I had to modify my "fun" build, dump torp spread, target engines and pol hull, re-arrange boffs and go with standard 8 beamer and cycle epw and eps. Found myself flying in circles and pressing space bar. Then falling asleep... Lol No offense for cruisers pilots, but I one hate that.). For the first time I dust out the bug. Got it months ago but never used it. That is by far the best escort in the game (I know, many said it but I never tried it). That (maybe not so op) should be a model for a bop - with less hull maybe. And dontdrunk, I now agree with you, that little sh*t is way op. Bug vs bop, you don't even have to try too hard to win. I'll post some values in regards to output damage, with 5 tac energy consoles vs 4. I have a hunch the difference is not as insignificant as I thought.
In regards to hg shield, w/o using at least a epts2 and tss2, kind of hard to fill...especially when having a bug whipping your rear.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Member since December 2009
well your opinion is that of a fed player .not a klingon player nor one who actually payed the 10$ to buy that ship in the first place....i did
the only reason to buy any C store ship is that they are unique in a way ...that was this ship unique attribute.
i am fully speced on flows and yet i get with it and massive shooting +2 on a best day
yea it gave up to 8 times stack ..but so what?? the only problem is that it just was suppose to be considered on the oponnent side ...he should be able to be stack leeched.
oh wait a minute...power siphon skill can be stacked..what do u know.....
and sensor scan??? and attack pattern beta...
should we nerf them all as well???
but lets say for an instance those pvp players are right...leech was so strong yada yada yada....so once again ...let only one use it ....or even better the benefit would still be the same but the affect on the opponent would be just as one ..
once again ..a 2 continous energy sipohns with the doffs to match it would draing ur energy 30 all across the board for 50 sec out of every minute...i know cause i have this ship with this build on the fed side...and thats just one ship ...all the while adding me the same amount......sounds familiar???? get two of those ships on one player in pvp and all u need is another tac to pop him in 5 sec....
feds have a lot of their own things..klink have theirs...deal with it ..or switch to klingon ...
when u pay 10$ for a whole ship that got completely nerfed and now is useless yea u get angry ..when it happens more than once imagine the feelings.....
so yea dont stack it from multiple oponnents ..lets say ok ..i rlly couldnt be bothered with that as PVP in this game suks anyways....but individual benefit???...not ur call or others with ur suggestions of 8 and 10 or what ever ..
if u want them to nerf something how bout the federation new flight pets....or the fact u suddenly have flight deck officers with reduced recharge to hanger bays ...or the intrepid console???...list goes on and on ..
yet u dont see any klingon side threads that cry about it all the time.
Lol. Lol bc you get my post too personal. It's an opinion. And an opinion I believe in. Feds have/had issues also (energy wake, phaser procs - this isn't really fed but mostly Feds used phasers, etc). To your surprise, a confession: I play 99% as Klingon. I also had purchased the leech. And this pl "fix" messed my bortasqu fun build that I had. So I hate it. But in the sense of fairness, the power gain (before fix) from the leech is too good. I like it, but was a bit too much. Now, the stacking on target is a different story, cryptic only wanted to address that, but they "fix" also stacking for the owner. More than likely they will address the last, so the energy gain from the leech will be back.
Some of the other things you mention are also a cause of imballance, I agree, but I was referring to only the leech since this post is about it. If you'd like some opinions on something else, open a new thread and folks will share their thoughts. There are some threads on pvp about siphons, doffs, you name it, lol. But just remember (in case you forgot, lol) this is a pvp forum and we share our thoughts from pvp point of view (most of us don't want to see a faction decisive advantage because this just jacks up the fun). Most of us don't really care about pve, or care less. And even if we would be pve fans, those changes don't really affect pve that much, lol. Would be funny though to hear a pvp hardcore saying that a deredix is too hard to kill...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
R.I.P
I get that you aren't a pvper. But I will type slowly for you.
You didn't have to be a klink player (and I am one. Infact I'm in the process of becoming primarily kdf since there are frankly an over abundance of Fed Premades out there. It's time someone shows willingness to help balance the scales.) to see what made the Leech so bad. The 8 stack? That was not an issue.
The issue, was the 40 stack that you got when 5 ships focused the same target. There is literally 0 defense against this other than hope maybe you get a lucky tric shot or 3 to kill the people shooting you all at once. You could use EPS Power Transfer, Batteries, Emergency Power you name it, and your power level would not budge 1 point. Frankly the 40 stacking 24/7 with 0 down time took the fun out of KvF for me. And KvK. Because it made it far far too easy. It was a skill replacement.
Energy siphon does not even do remotely close to what you claim it does, and infact it's one of the most useless skills in the game for several factors, not the least among them, is that Power Insulators makes a farce out of it. I can tell you don't actually use the skill, or you only use it in lolpve, because otherwise you'd notice just how totally TRIBBLE it is. Oh not only that Esiphon is cleared by ST.
Sen Scan is clearable by Sci Team, APB is unlikely to ever stack past 1 application of APB, due to Tac Team. There are working counters. There was not one for leech.
Let me guess you think Jam Sensors and boarding party are the bees knees as well.
Ahhh right here you admit you don't pvp. Yeah, your opinion on Abilities, means nothing then. Go back to Drozana, kid.
Actually the KDF whine all the time. Especially when my overload sends their precious consoled little steroided shuttles that try to pass them selves off as bops to the Respawn point, over and over again.
There are some legit Grievances in this game and contrary to your lil faceroller's beliefs, Leech was indeed one of them.
Yes the Gibbing went far too far. Yes I can come up with drain builds that still work without it, and Team Loadouts to compliment it. That being said, the 40 stack needed to go, and if you had ever pvped you'd know that. Oh and for the record, working drain builds don't have lolenergysiphon.
I thought he ment power siphons, lol. But I see he didn't.
Btw, I love this thread...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=317921
Has the answers of many questions...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
first of all i said i dont pvp now ...never said i didnt ...just gotten fed up with it as its such a broken system and enough said about that...not to mention it gotten real hard to find good KDF teams.
second i am no kid nor far from it money wise had no problem spending a mere 10$ and much more if i ever wanted...this is not to point..
point is as a programmer myself ( yea see the not kid info ) ...and even if i wasnt they set out to do one simple thing..prevent multiple leech from multiple opponents and instead of affecting the receiver aspect affected the user aspect..
more over they havnt even took the time to test it properly as what they claim in the patch notes is clearly not true..
even if it was the case for them they just made a 800C points or 1000Z completely useless..not half ..not quarter or 90% ..but useless ...
there are not many that do PVP ..just try que one up and see how much time it takes to do it ..yet for PVP players the entire ship got nerfed...same thing happened with siphon drones and with theta radiation ..only non of the latter was completely destroyed..this one right here did..
good for you that you gloat but a thing aimed at us right now would be aimed at u as well at some point ....
but while on the subject ..the very thing that broke pvp is maybe the ability to multiple stack same abilities on the same opponent which i was always very much against it..
so yea dont nerf siphonss ..just prevent it from multiple sources...same as for beta pattern energy siphon sensor scan subnuke etc etc.
by your approach every one of these things should not only be nerfed from multiple opponents but nerfed as a power from the get go ..
this is the time to mention how many times i found here all sort of people crying about the power of subnuke and Sensor scan....
The Devs broke it in an attempt to fix it. They do this often and even explained it as the method they use when they fix something. Find both extremes of a power, the nerfed and the OP and then work it back to a middle ground that is balanced.
Plasmonic Leech like the VTR was broken, they are attempting to fix it.
We can only hope they do not take forever to get to that middle ground.
R.I.P
First for a programmer, your post formatting? Is The Suck. So basically because you are an adult (allegedly) who has a big wallet. You think it is okay to simply open said wallet and auto win? To me that is utterly boring any dunce can do that. Any dunce that can not properly spell, or even somewhat spell properly or form proper complete sentences, and paragraphs can do that, as you're proving right now.
No one is arguing that leech is okay right now. No one that is being serious anyway. Cryptic bungled it, like usual and they have vowed to fix it. You need to get off the rag about it already.
As a matter of fact there are some pretty intelligent people here, that have several ideas on how to fix leech properly. Not just "make it so it never stacks past 8". But you're too busy being on the rag to see it.
Siphon drones are ludicrously strong, kid. I have done testing on that unlike yourself, and they are more than capable of draining someone dry, like a vampire high on meth.
And again, attack pattern beta is pretty much lulz for more than one ship to be carrying due to tac team right now, as the best you can hope for realistically speaking? Is 1 copy hitting, thanks to Tac team. Esiphon? Is The Suck, much like your posting ability, even if it does stack from multiple sources (which it doesn't) you can easily clear it with sci team. Not that you would need to since it's drain has always been utterly pathetic. Sensor scan? Funny Sci team clears it too.
What I think you are trying to say, but I'm not certain of because you're borderlined illiterate right now is that you just want leech to be good, and put back to 40 stacks of Auto Win, because you can't win without your target having a permanent minus 40 to all power levels. Yes?
Actually by my approach which you don't seem to be capable of grasping, (because you're on the rag. Seriously man, get some pills for that PMS problem you have there) I would bring powers down, some up. And leave some alone. Because unlike you, who doesn't pvp. I know where things stand right now. (Coincidentally also unlike Gecko, who's too stupid to figure anything out)
You see, nerfing and buffing is not a mutually exclusive thing, nor do you have to do it to multiple things at a time.
I've been nerfed, buffed, and all points between over the last two years. I have done to the best of my ability, adapted to various changes, balance passes etc and have done my best to help others along the way.
Maybe when you grow up, or get some treatment for your rag issues, and actually game more than play at drozana with your dress up dolls, whining about how allegedly useless your ship is now that you lost one console, you'll see that.
Hey man, you don't need to let those things upset you. Really. Mostly on this forum people counter eachother but we are still friends at the end of the day, lol.
I haven't called you a kid, never thought you are and lastly I don't give a squat if you are or not. Common sense is related to education not to age.
Now, again, some of us have opinions that we discuss here. Some of us are wrong, and the hole point, for your own game experience is to realize and accept when you're wrong. Mav, even though is blunt, is one of the most experienced sto players in this forum, I wouldn't go on bashing him or others like him, at least till you don't have a solid proof.
You should not let your ego interfere with facts. I mostly play pug pvp and I can tell you that most pvp fvk games are won by klings. So it's easier to win a pug as a kling than a fed, mainly because fed players are so many more vs klinks. Klings are "the few and the proud", lol, that's why they are better as percentage than Feds (not having solid data, just using my observations)
The fact that pvp sucks for people like you is mainly because Criptic had done almost nothing (except low priority help that we get from bort and jesse) to improve pvp experience for players that are totally inexperienced to moderately experienced. Trust me, we all know how much it takes to wait for a pvp match. That's the sad truth about the pvp state in sto...
Keep in mind that I don't want to TRIBBLE people up (pvper or pveer) with my crazy ideas (lol), but, as I said, some have ideas that we like to discuss, this is how we learn from eachother and enlarge our knowledge.
We are not crying for nerfs here, we try to find ways and ideas hoping that cryptic will listen to us (as a majority not minority) and make this game better and more fun. You wouldn't like getting trashed every time in pvp right? You learn to play, you became good, you meet focus fire from 4 people with leeches. Not nice to be blown apart by anybody, even the least experienced, just because of this jacked up leech.
Most of our talk is ment to be constructive. Just try to keep that in mind.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...