Good idea. I won't. I also won't play a game that forces me to either grind PvE for MONTHS just to be competitive in PvP, or pay ridiculous amounts of money to accomplish the same objective.
Guild Wars 2... the beautiful title that lets me level from 1-level cap, get the best gear in the game, etc etc without ever even having to touch PvE at all - and not without any loss in effectiveness.
I love you, ArenaNet. U haz da cookiez.
I have a simple question in my one fleet I'm in now my character has a basic Star Cruiser and much of my equipment I got at modest prices, drops or from the fleet bank as member withdrawals and my ship is pretty nasty.
What is the big deal you seem not to need a Tier 5 ship to compete in PvE and I would think with a good bridge crew and Tier XI and XII equipment plus cool things you find and earn on missions you can compete. So the game is f2p in the important sense of the word you can get most of the things you need in game. And I'm sure if you have a capital ship of the line they will as a fleet help you out outfitting if you ask.
That one statement made everything you said completely laughable at best.
I have no interest in that.
How many times must I repeat myself before it sinks in?
I DO NOT PVE. I DO NOT WANT TO PVE. I DO NOT WANT TO KILL THE SAME TACTICAL CUBE IN INFECTED FOR THE 50,000,000,000TH TIME WITH THE SAME SLEEP-INDUCING BORING AND INCOMPETENTLY STUPID AI ALL DAY AND NIGHT.
I WANT PVP.
TO BE COMPETITIVE IN PVP, YOU WILL WIELD INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE WITH BOUGHT GEAR. THIS IS WHERE THE TERM PAY-TO-WIN STEMS FROM. PAY WITH DOLLARS, OR PAY WITH MONTHS/YEARS OF PVE GRIND JUST TO BE ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY PVP.
IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.
Has it sunk in yet?
PvE is not my concern.
Any argument you make for PvE will go in one ear and out the other as it is completely and totally IRRELEVANT to me.
Dost thou comprehendeth yet?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I agree with the post citing it's too expensive. I would probably have made the effort to get at least 4 of the ships if the price wasn't this high. But lets be honest, all the previous T5 ships were sufficient for everything the game has to offer. These new ones are just Pay2Win as they are setup. No challenge is really present that my Escorts (Patrol, and MVAE) can't really currently handle with the exception of no win scenario (beyond level 5 in a pub). Sure I get one shotted now by more things, But with the added content being relatively boring I don't even care to bother.
This brings up something else, Why isn't their a fleet version of the MVAE? The defiant is the only escort that qualifies for the discount on the FSMs.
(lot of posts in this thread please forgive if this is a repeat) If you own the C-store version of a ship then the Fleet version is 75% off.
While it DOES suck that these ships require not only a **** ton of work but also more money.
Again, that's great for the people who have the C-store ships and would like to have the slightly better fleet version. I wouldn't say that 500 zen for a slightly better ship is a really great deal, but it's a hell of a lot better than paying 2000 zen if you want the fleet version of the Saber or Nova or any other ship that has no T5 C-store variant. You're paying a lot of zen for ships that are per character unlocks and don't come with a unique universal console.
I've seen these modules on the exchange for only 6 million ec.
A good day's worth of loot sold on the exchange can net you that.
Not to mention buying items on the exchange below vendor buyback, and crafting low tier ship weapons for sale.
I bought one on the exchange after playing for about 4 hours. I plan on buying more on the exchange and I hope Cryptic adds some more fleet ships on the KDF, there is a few in the zen/C-store I would buy if they had a fleet version.
and if you have so many toons you need a two or three dozen then you for sure have enough dilithium refining ability to buy all the zen/C-Points you want.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
I bought all the KDF CStore ships so now to maintain the ability to be competitive in PvP I have to drop some five more dollars on each of my thirteen KDF toons after I have ground enough fleet cred to get the fleet ship yards open?
If I have enough money next payday I think I will buy a Legacy package for MWO.
I think it is time I cut my losses here and "vote" with my wallet when it comes to my approval of the new STO pay to win.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
I bought all the KDF CStore ships so now to maintain the ability to be competitive in PvP I have to drop some five more dollars on each of my thirteen KDF toons after I have ground enough fleet cred to get the fleet ship yards open?
If I have enough money next payday I think I will buy a Legacy package for MWO.
I think it is time I cut my losses here and "vote" with my wallet when it comes to my approval of the new STO pay to win.
That's been precisely what I've been trying to convey, and agree with you 100%. MWO and GW2 will be my new crack.
Granted, GW2 won't have the same combat mechanics, but if you want to 100% PvP focus from the time you turn on the game for the first time, you can in that game.
MWO is just pure awesome. "Naval" combat (in that you are controlling massive capital war machines that require forethought to movement, acknowledgement of terrain, etc) and again, you can fully focus on PvP.
This makes me hazahappeh. Sad Pandas become Happy Pandas.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Gamer: ******nit... aw well. Guild Wars 2 launches in a month, Mech Warrior Online is in beta, Phantasy Star Online 2 is scheduled to begin tests in the USA soon... See ya Cryptic.
Cryptic: Troll successful. ...hey, wait! WTF?!?!
My major issue is dan Stahl has alway said as recent as a couple of ask cryptics ago that we do not charge for season feature and content updates.....lies.....modules for fleet ships.....I have always tried to support the team when I see things like this it is betrayal......
Excuse me for saying but the parent company Perfect World is an expert in f2p games and their normal model is make the base game fully playable all the way up for free but offer options in their games for people to get things they want.
I never said not getting a T5 ship decked out is a good thing in PvP but you can do PvP just die a bit faster and have to try a bit harder to compete you don't have to spend one penny on the game ever. This is the same for any other game they offer. And they as the new owners are adding content and moving the game forward when it was clearly stallked for over a year. A decked out Tier 4 ship is still a good ship it just might take some more effort to win with it and compete in some cases.
Seocond point its a company they need to make money on the game or they will drop it so your opposed to the new ships and pricing fine but spending the money keeps this game active.
Would you rather the game not have changes at all or worse gone for good I happen to like STO like I enjoy Champions Online (I hated a change there but love other changes).
Name one option that requires me to actually PvP and have fun in order to stay competitive in PvP and have fun.
None? Didn't think so.
You want to PvE grind like a zombie to make progress? Go for it.
I'd rather play a game that rewards what I want to do, and not force me to do something I don't want. I play games to have fun, not to work.
I have a full time job, wife, and kid to keep that ambition up. Game doesn't need to add to it.
Hence why I move to a game and company that cares more about making something fun for their audience than milking them for pennies or the mindless and excruciating, long grind in order to keep "the numbers" up.
Yet ironically... ArenaNet stands as among the most successful MMO developers of all time, and surprisingly pulled off a F2P model to such great success as to have earned one of the most loyal and largest fan bases of MMO history, WoW being the sole successor.
And they did it with a production staff of 36 people.
Wonder why Cryptic can't do that...
Nevertheless, 3 F2P blockbusters right around the corner. GW2, PSO2, MWO. I think I'll be perfectly fine, and be able to play the way I want (PvP) and be rewarded for it.
Play as a Klingon. Earn EC and dilithium through missions and PvP arena rewards. Exchange dilithium for Zen or use the EC earned to buy a fleet module. There you go; not only can you have fun (since all you want to do is PvP), you're being rewarded with FREE currency to BUY stuff. For FREE. And you can stay competitive. Going to take forever to earn enough to buy ships you say? What do you care? You're PvPing all the time anyways.
I didn't say it before, but now I wonder why it is you still play this game if you don't like the way it's run. Even if those other games are a few months away, there are plenty of other games out there that can occupy your time. You could also revisit one of your older games.
Excuse me for saying but the parent company Perfect World is an expert in f2p games and their normal model is make the base game fully playable all the way up for free but offer options in their games for people to get things they want.
You're joking right? Their games tend to be decent, but their trend towards monetizing every single facet of a game is leaving most of their games empty shadows of what they were. Yes they make money, but that alone does not make them a good company. There are plenty of other MMO's that are F2P and don't try to force you to pay or grind excessively to enjoy the game.
I dont fully blame PW, most of the stuff dating way back was from Cryptic themselfs, there both as bad as each other, shame Cryptic dont seem to really like Trek or its playerbase, 4 modules for a ship that has no new skin or ability, sod off not everyone is gullible and stand up.
Excuse me for saying but the parent company Perfect World is an expert in f2p games
Hakaishin: Expert? Compared to ArenaNet, they are insects splattered on the windshield of an M1A1 Abrams. They've not pulled in NEAR the audience in ALL of their games COMBINED than ArenaNet did with 1 F2P title.
But whatever, you're hell bent on supporting them beyond mathematical facts, so go ahead.
and their normal model is make the base game fully playable all the way up for free
Hakaishin: Except be competitive.
but offer the ability to buy your way to victory in their games for people to get things they want.
I never said not (gramatical error?) getting a T5 ship decked out is a good thing in PvP but you can do PvP just die a bit faster and have to try a bit harder to compete you don't have to spend one penny on the game ever.
Hakaishin: Equal skill player in the Fleet Armitage versus the "free" version (which still costs dilithium), the Fleet Escort. Fleet Armitage has AMS and Graviton Pulse equipped, as well as the torp console.
Fleet escort has whatever you can get purely with Energy Credits.
Which do you think would win?
If you say the Fleet Escort, you need shot in the face so our world can be rid of one more stupid person.
This is the same for any other game they offer.
Hakaishin: The same for any game THEY offer.
Any decent company? There is NOTHING on the store that you can buy that would give you anything more than a cosmetic gleam. Nothing.
Perfect World? lulz...
ArenaNet > PW. Sega > PW (as much as it pains me to say it). Piranah (sp) > PW. All with F2P model blockbusters.
All able to offer competitive play without a dime's incentive and come out with far greater audiences and revenue.
Imagine that...
And they as the new owners are adding content and moving the game forward when it was clearly stallked for over a year. A decked out Tier 4 ship is still a good ship it just might take some more effort to win with it and compete in some cases.
Take your T4 ship against me.
Fight me.
If you win, I'll take everything I've said back and even apologize.
Hell, if you survive more than 60 seconds from the time the first shot is fired, I'll cede.
Otherwise, I'll stand by my case.
That in order to truly be competitive... as in fight fleets like SOB, Pandas, Clowns, TSI, etc in real PvP... you will require the advantage.
Given you don't seem to understand that, I'm assuming you don't PvP... which will make my victory rather lackluster unfortunately.
Seocond point its a company they need to make money on the game or they will drop it so your opposed to the new ships and pricing fine but spending the money keeps this game active.
Hakaishin: Irrelevent.
ArenaNet made FAR more money than all of PWE's titles combined and multiplied several times over again.
With 1 title.
Without a pay-to-win model.
PWE are simply incompetent business men/women AND incompetent developers.
No excuse whatsoever, and to say so is literally blasphemous and laughable at the same time to credible developers.
Would you rather the game not have changes at all or worse gone for good I happen to like STO like I enjoy Champions Online (I hated a change there but love other changes).
Hakaishin: PvP is exactly the same now as it was in Beta.
Would I rather the game not have changes at all?
What changes in PvP were made?
There were none. Would I rather the game not have the changes? I guess so, since all changes were in PvE and I don't waste my time on mind-numbingly boring PvE.
Broken down for the simpler folk to understand.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Play as a Klingon. Earn EC and dilithium through missions and PvP arena rewards. Exchange dilithium for Zen or use the EC earned to buy a fleet module. There you go; not only can you have fun (since all you want to do is PvP), you're being rewarded with FREE currency to BUY stuff. For FREE. And you can stay competitive. Going to take forever to earn enough to buy ships you say? What do you care? You're PvPing all the time anyways.
I didn't say it before, but now I wonder why it is you still play this game if you don't like the way it's run. Even if those other games are a few months away, there are plenty of other games out there that can occupy your time. You could also revisit one of your older games.
Because Guild Wars 2 and Mech Warrior Online haven't launched yet.
No other reason.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Play as a Klingon. Earn EC and dilithium through missions and PvP arena rewards. Exchange dilithium for Zen or use the EC earned to buy a fleet module. There you go; not only can you have fun (since all you want to do is PvP), you're being rewarded with FREE currency to BUY stuff. For FREE. And you can stay competitive. Going to take forever to earn enough to buy ships you say? What do you care? You're PvPing all the time anyways.
I didn't say it before, but now I wonder why it is you still play this game if you don't like the way it's run. Even if those other games are a few months away, there are plenty of other games out there that can occupy your time. You could also revisit one of your older games.
You points are valid for you, but...
I love STO's game play, (especially in space). I would continue to play only STO if the ability to compete in PvP was not getting so monetized.
I have dropped well over a thousand dollars, (just in the CStore), in two years of STO play. I would like to get a little of my monies worth. Beyond that a break will do me good. It will also convey to the Devs et all exactly what a market like me will not bear.
That said do you think you will see me in game? Yeah I will pay for no more than my sub till MWO launches then I will stop giving STO money and take a break. You will only see me as a sliver and in game for one of two reasons, for the friends I have made in 10 Forward as well as in PvP and to see if STO pulls it's collective heads out of it's monetizing rear long enough to realize a fraking per account only space suit for seven dollars is in it's own way near as bad as Eve's sixty five dollar monocle. Even Eve managed to learn from Monocle-gate, STO just might learn from Module-gate.
At least I can hope they will learn. The best way to learn 'em is not not pay the price, use the money to buy cool stuff, in my case, for my 1956 Ford F100. A windshield and LED turn signal indicators would only be the start. Paint, a blueprinted and balanced rebuild of the 289 bored and stroked to 351cid with a 3' Borla exhaust would be a nice follow through. $1800 would put a huge dent in that Christmas list. Oh yeah Jacklalope you and Chip Foose are not the only ones willing to drop dimes on vehicular performance, (that would be a reference to a purple Prowler there).
Mmmm my ZRX1200R could use more love. Old school spun aluminum PM Chicane race rims and a full race exhaust with a stage two jet kit just got my wheels rolling. Some inverted BPF forks and a six speed transmission stolen from a couple junkyard ZX1200s, (and the trans would bolt right up as the engines in both models are the exact same within the 2004 year range, oh yeah going from five gears to six would be SWEET!). I could more than do that with the 1800 I dropped on the virtual carp in this game.
Priorities man. It's all about the priorities. Having fun and looking cool so I can strike manly rebel poses for the honies when near my rides I think is better and yields more tangible results than boasting about a C-Store fleet ship that took me three months and twenty five to thirty dollars to grind on one of my fifteen toons.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Look I definitely don't agree with having to pay a lot more for a fleet ship. I seriously think Cryptic/PW should look over the current model for purchase and listen to what the players have to say. After reading all the rants about it, I am going to have to weigh in.
You don't have to buy anything in this game to play it to the end with great satisfaction. I did it. The OPTION of buying things is always there. There is nothing in this game that can't be done with standard equipment and ships. Purchasing is a choice, not a necessity. If you really don't have money/want to spend the money, please don't. If you don't have the time to grind (just like in every other game) then don't. Gaming is all about choices/options. If you feel like the only way for you to keep up with the Joneses is to purchase, then purchase, but blaming a company for making money is silly. They give you a free game to play, if you want to super new stuff and buying it is the only option, buy some stuff.
PvPer's for as long as there have been MMO's that allowed PvPing, you guys have ruined it with your incessant whining because someone smoked you TRIBBLE. Every time a power or equipment gets nerfed, there is a PvPer behind it. If you don't PVE, then don't PVE. No reason to ruin it for the MAJORITY who do! Oh yeah, at some point you did or you wouldn't be where you are. Wait one sec, I don't believe that PvPer's should have to grind in the game to get better equipment. although when you think about it, isn't repeatedly fighting in PvP the same as grinding in PVE if there was a reward system set up for it?
If you are truly unsatisfied with a game, GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME AND QUIT YOUR COMPLAINING!! It gets old very fast! There is no game that is going to satisfy everyone. Trust me on that one. Find one that doesn't have as many faults. I know that is not the appropriate answer to that statement, but i get really sick and tired of hearing people say they are going to go play another game and then continue to post there discontent about the game and say they are going to play another game.
Arena Net is successful because they were the first, not the best. There game are mediocre at best. I have played them all and find ALL of them lacking. Paying a monthly fee for game access is fine, paying for an expansion to a game I already own and pay you monthly for is just as bad as what all the other F2P companies do. Again it's better to find a game that mostly suits you are play it until it doesn't.
If this is not the game you are looking for, then...move along.
I too will be playing GW2 and still staying with STO.
Look I definitely don't agree with having to pay a lot more for a fleet ship. I seriously think Cryptic/PW should look over the current model for purchase and listen to what the players have to say. After reading all the rants about it, I am going to have to weigh in.
You don't have to buy anything in this game to play it to the end with great satisfaction. I did it. The OPTION of buying things is always there. There is nothing in this game that can't be done with standard equipment and ships. Purchasing is a choice, not a necessity. If you really don't have money/want to spend the money, please don't. If you don't have the time to grind (just like in every other game) then don't. Gaming is all about choices/options. If you feel like the only way for you to keep up with the Joneses is to purchase, then purchase, but blaming a company for making money is silly. They give you a free game to play, if you want to super new stuff and buying it is the only option, buy some stuff.
PvPer's for as long as there have been MMO's that allowed PvPing, you guys have ruined it with your incessant whining because someone smoked you TRIBBLE. Every time a power or equipment gets nerfed, there is a PvPer behind it. If you don't PVE, then don't PVE. No reason to ruin it for the MAJORITY who do! Oh yeah, at some point you did or you wouldn't be where you are. Wait one sec, I don't believe that PvPer's should have to grind in the game to get better equipment. although when you think about it, isn't repeatedly fighting in PvP the same as grinding in PVE if there was a reward system set up for it?
If you are truly unsatisfied with a game, GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME AND QUIT YOUR COMPLAINING!! It gets old very fast! There is no game that is going to satisfy everyone. Trust me on that one. Find one that doesn't have as many faults. I know that is not the appropriate answer to that statement, but i get really sick and tired of hearing people say they are going to go play another game and then continue to post there discontent about the game and say they are going to play another game.
Arena Net is successful because they were the first, not the best. There game are mediocre at best. I have played them all and find ALL of them lacking. Paying a monthly fee for game access is fine, paying for an expansion to a game I already own and pay you monthly for is just as bad as what all the other F2P companies do. Again it's better to find a game that mostly suits you are play it until it doesn't.
If this is not the game you are looking for, then...move along.
I too will be playing GW2 and still staying with STO.
Yeah many of us seem to be ready to move on to one degree or another without your invective. I hope many come to fill our ranks so that game development monies continues to flow into PWE coffers after we move on, (you know to one degree or another).
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
You don't have to buy anything in this game to play it to the end with great satisfaction.
Hakaishin: Except be competitive at PvP.
I did it.
Hakaishin: You can beat a tac cube with a pre-determined AI and build. Gratz. I don't enjoy it myself, but that's your choice.
The OPTION of buying things is always there.
Hakaishin: And for PvP, the requirement.
There is nothing in this game that can't be done with standard equipment and ships.
Hakaishin: Except be competitive in PvP.
Purchasing is a choice in PvE, and a necessity in PvP. If you really don't have money/want to spend the money, please don't. If you don't have the time to grind (just like in every other game except for Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Mech Warrior Online, Firefall, and a rather large number of other superior titles,) then don't. Gaming is all about choices/options and in PW's case, buying your way to victory.. If you feel like the only way for you to keep up with proper competitors who have the skill and knowledge to back up their words and actions is to purchase, then purchase, but blaming a company for exploiting its player base is justified, albeit futile. They give you a free game to play, if you want to be competitive at all and buying it is the only option, buy some stuff.
PvPer's for as long as there have been MMO's that allowed PvPing, you guys have ruined it for carebear PvEers with your greater knowledge and experience of game mechanics and functional build use/effect because someone destroyed otherwise viable mechanics in order to fuel PvE carebears. Every time a power or equipment gets nerfed, there is a PvEer behind it. If you don't PVE, then don't PVE. No reason to ruin it for the MAJORITY who do, unless you actually enjoy PvP. Oh yeah, at some point you did or you wouldn't be where you are ONLY BECAUSE YOU WERE FORCED TO DO SO, and in any other game you are capable of earning strength via PvP if you chose to without being 100% reliant on PvE. Wait one sec, I don't believe that PvPer's should have to grind in the game to get better equipment. although when you think about it, isn't repeatedly fighting in PvP the same as grinding in PVE if there was a reward system set up for it?
Hakaishin: No. It isn't.
A human has a brain. It can think. It can adapt. It can analyze and be creative. It can make every single PvP match different and unique, as if it were a whole different game every single engagement.
PvE AIs cannot do that.
It is not the same.
Not in the slightest little bit.
If you are truly unsatisfied with a game, GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME
Hakaishin: On August 25th (GW2 head start), I will. Until then, I'm stuck and do still have a few friends who haven't fully come to the light of intellect yet.
AND QUIT YOUR COMPLAINING!!
Hakaishin: Do you tell the same thing to the 2.5 million innocent Iraqi people who the USA has slaughtered? Go to another country and quit complaining? It seems to be a rather common argument.
"Don't fix the problem! Just give up and go somewhere else!"
...Yeah.
It gets old very fast!
Hakaishin: So does 2 years of no PvP content and PvP being thrown on the back burner.
And you wonder why our PvP community is pissed?
There is no game that is going to satisfy everyone.
Hakaishin: I don't want a game to satisfy everyone.
But when you TRIBBLE off the ENTIRE PvP community, without exception, there is a problem.
Refusing to address that problem tends to lead to a lost player base, and the game taking a rather powerful punch in the face that wasn't otherwise necessary at all.
Trust me on that one. Find one that doesn't have as many faults.
Hakaishin: Guild Wars 2.
I know that is not the appropriate answer to that statement, but i get really sick and tired of hearing people say they are going to go play another game and then continue to post there discontent about the game and say they are going to play another game.
Hakaishin: Then don't read game forums. They're filled with it.
Arena Net is successful because they were the first, AND the best. Their game is/was mediocre at best in my humble and solitary opinion. I have played them all and find ALL of them lacking. Paying a monthly fee for game access is fine, paying for an expansion to a game I already own and pay you monthly for is just as bad as what all the other F2P companies do. Again it's better to find a game that mostly suits you are play it until it doesn't in my humble opinion.
If this is not the game you are looking for, then...move along when Guild Wars 2, Mech Warrior Online, Phantasy Star Online 2, etc etc actually launch. Meantime, keep kicking my TRIBBLE in PvP.
I too will be playing GW2 and still staying with STO.
I had a few replies, the rest was simply corrections to your text. Hope it helps.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I know that is not the appropriate answer to that statement, but i get really sick and tired of hearing people say they are going to go play another game and then continue to post there discontent about the game and say they are going to play another game.
Forgive me for not responding to this in my first post to you but have you considered that it is possible the reason we come back and voice our opinions is because despite getting fed up there is something about the game we really enjoy and are passionate about?
Is it not possible that we see what could be, or see what is awesome and get frustrated that little is done to improve it? What is the crime in checking in with the hope that something may have changed.
What kind of crime is it to ask for what we think would be cool or fun just like you PvEers do?
What would be great is to be able to voice our concerns, opinions and hopes without having the moniker, "whiner," levied against us.
Oh and before I leave you with that last thought have you considered that complaining about us complaining is the same as whining about us whining?
PvEers have concerns just as PvPers do, it seems to me PvErs whine, percentage wise you know, the same that PvPers do. It's just that PvEers tend to complain without theory, empirical experience or numbers to back them. Well you do cite emperical experience but it's always couched in terms of making your game against an unthinking opponent even more lopsided than it already is.
Edited to add: My roommate's kid is out to visit for the summer. He started to play STO this last spring and I tried to teach him but it was difficult to do via in game chat. Then it was always, "Come help me with this mission." and "OMG! This mission is too hard."
So now with him in the same room where I could explain as I showed him. So I taught him some PvP tricks and set him loose against the PvE missions. Within the first combat both on the ground and in space he exclaimed, "OMG! This is so easy!" I told him that was why I PvP when I can. Real minds are so much more unpredictable than the AI this game uses. I swear the AI in MineCraft is more challenging.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Haka I love ya but you're talking about pvp in a game where it is woefully underdeveloped and will likely remain so for the duration of this game's existence. I understand you wanting to leave for GW2, hell if it wasn't for space combat in STO I'd probably spend 100% of my time there too having played GW1 for 7+ years.
What I find puzzling is though the pvpers in STO continue to demand for something that is (no pun intended) futile at this point. Cryptic has been selling power in the cashshop which is a clear indication of not being concerned in the least for pvp balance. Any other MMO with any care for pvp wouldn't be so heavy-handed with selling power or not at all. But Cryptic with their actions proves time and time again they will never ever give pvp any sort of chance.
To be perfectly honest I don't even understand why pvpers are still in this game at all in this point. It's like watching a group of people just bash their own skulls over a brick wall or putting hopes into something which will never change. Hell right now GW1, SWTOR and even TSW offer great pvp. GW1 offers it right from the box no leveling required.
Haka I love ya but you're talking about pvp in a game where it is woefully underdeveloped and will likely remain so for the duration of this game's existence. I understand you wanting to leave for GW2, hell if it wasn't for space combat in STO I'd probably spend 100% of my time there too having played GW1 for 7+ years.
What I find puzzling is though the pvpers in STO continue to demand for something that is (no pun intended) futile at this point. Cryptic has been selling power in the cashshop which is a clear indication of not being concerned in the least for pvp balance. Any other MMO with any care for pvp wouldn't be so heavy-handed with selling power or not at all. But Cryptic with their actions proves time and time again they will never ever give pvp any sort of chance.
To be perfectly honest I don't even understand why pvpers are still in this game at all in this point. It's like watching a group of people just bash their own skulls over a brick wall or putting hopes into something which will never change. Hell right now GW1, SWTOR and even TSW offer great pvp. GW1 offers it right from the box no leveling required.
You're actually very correct, I really can't deny your points.
I suppose my major flaw is I don't simply run when a problem presents itself. I'm a man who believes in correcting problems, not continuing them and hiding our shame under a rug like a coward and failure.
It could very well be a flaw... but that persistence has lead me to be successful in real life with a damn fine job, a beautiful wife, and a brilliant child.
Why should it not apply elsewhere?
Call me a sucker I suppose. I aspire for better things, and STO has that potential.
They just **** on it at every turn.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Let me simply state again if you want to do PvP, I for one don't and thankfully the battle zone missions are few where its not a clear choice (two with Borg in them noted here as an example) so for me the ships as is are fine f2p.
The missions are fun, the PvE team games are fun, the new Fleet mechanics awesome and the PW company is just trying to make money and offer more content. And some are attacking them over one mechanic the Fleet Ships which are optional like I stated a Tier 4 ship in a fleet decked out decently with a good crew and player can do PvE well and do missions well enough. In PvP team games they are likely a weaker link but the Tier 5 ships are just marginally better in a fleet usually more hull points and one device added in its not a big deal breaker.
If you don't like to do PvE fleet actions and the like then fine go play a game where PvP is better, if you stay you must accept the way the game is and send productive input to the company for changes you might like. But you can get an Odyssey for 200,000 Fleet Credits so I don't see the issue if you can't get modules then wait and buy a ship that way.
Noone is forcing players to do anything you can play free from Level 1 to Level 50 and never spend a dime and have fun if you like the game and are willing to settle with less of an advantage in one area PvP after some point in the game.
Let me simply state again if you want to do PvP, I for one don't and thankfully the battle zone missions are few where its not a clear choice (two with Borg in them noted here as an example) so for me the ships as is are fine f2p.
The missions are fun, the PvE team games are fun, the new Fleet mechanics awesome and the PW company is just trying to make money and offer more content. And some are attacking them over one mechanic the Fleet Ships which are optional like I stated a Tier 4 ship in a fleet decked out decently with a good crew and player can do PvE well and do missions well enough. In PvP team games they are likely a weaker link but the Tier 5 ships are just marginally better in a fleet usually more hull points and one device added in its not a big deal breaker.
Hakaishin: And that's your choice.
Should not expect the same of the rest of us.
PvPers are angry because we HAVE been sending feedback to the company for 2 bloody f**king years. All with the same old promise, "We'll get to it eventually."
Well, eventually's come and gone about 18 months ago, along with our patience.
If you don't like to do PvE fleet actions and the like then fine go play a game where PvP is better, if you stay you must accept the way the game is and send productive input to the company for changes you might like. But you can get an Odyssey for 200,000 Fleet Credits so I don't see the issue if you can't get modules then wait and buy a ship that way.
Hakaishin: Why is it that every time someone brings up a problem, the first thing people say is, "Ignore the problem! Run away!"
What if we like the general gameplay mechanics of STO, but simply want PvP to finally be addressed just once after 2 years of our ENTIRE community being COMPLETELY ignored?
We've tried productive input.
We've tried being polite.
There are limits to human patience, however.
If you were paying me money, but I ignored you completely for 2 DAMN YEARS altogether, would you not be incredibly pissed off?
If not, I question your humanity... and your set of balls.
"If you don't like PvE, go play another game!" = "If you don't like this obvious problem, give up and run away!"
Pathetic response from pathetic cowards.
Grow a pair and actually address the problem.
Noone is forcing players to do anything you can play free from Level 1 to Level 50 and never spend a dime and have fun if you like the game and are willing to settle with less of an advantage in one area PvP after some point in the game.
Hakaishin: Same useless argument. Grow a pair and face the damn problem instead of trying to encourage cowardice and being too weak and inferior to address it openly.
As always... responses in red.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
No one can grow a pair it seems. It would appear my assumption of this game's PvE community is very much correct. When it is no longer valid to use that "run away if you don't like it" because men solve problems instead of avoiding them, they cower because there is no snide remark that would make that cowardice anything more than what it is - cowardice.
Aw well. Can't say I didn't try to offer the alternative. "Ignorance is strength!" says the PvE community of STO... or at least its forum. Collective punishment has never been a good idea, so I will limit it where it belongs and the end result is that the forum is only visited by a small percentage of the population as a whole.
That said, will continue to log in to contribute to SOB's forced PvE slavery via the starbase system in order for the fleet to remain competitive in PvP and when my resources are exhausted...
...because I refuse to mimic the cowards here...
...I will simply not log in anymore and hold my breath for Guild Wars 2's head start on August 25th.
That way all the carebears will be rid of the mean old Hakaishin who insists that they hurt their brains and think instead of using voided ideas, or consider an idea from the perspective of another human being before ranting off nonsense.
So cruel of me...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I happen to play a few f2p games World of Tanks for PvP, Champions PvP and PvE and STO PvE and Fleet Roleplay are my top ones.
If I want to hammer on people I don't come here I go to WoT's usually which doesn't favor spending money for an advantage and Champions online you can choose if your up against Freeforms (their version of the wallet warriors here) or not hit the archetype ones.
Just seems to me looking at this game there is no way to seperate the wallet warriors and regular joes, unless you go item by item a ship has in it or something I would think that would be hard to do.
I looked over the missions and all if you do many of them you can get very cool things for your ships. For reference in Champions online a good friend hit 40th level, has a dozen pets and sidekicks and never spent a dime and is one of the best PvP characters in the game. Maybe you need to do that here do the missions, load up on the good tech and then play with the best ship you can get. I will add on topic again the Fleet Ships are not much worse than Tier 5 ships you buy in fact most look competative in design. If its the case that one extra unit in the ship or that added 8-9% armor is a critical difference do what we do in World of Tanks play to what you are good at.
For example one PvP Team match I destroyed my ship with a big boom after my team tracctor beamed and gravity welled away and I took out three big vessels. Then hello just came back to fight in a bit. Death is not death in this game you just have to go back and keep trying. And yes I was clearly weaker but my tank build did what it does well kept me in the fight and taking hits for the team, and did still get in some kills. There is a reason for Respawning in some games. In WoT your tank dies your done with the match.
My view is on the Fleet Ships get one if you want, if not spend a bit more for another vessel there are ample options if you want to and if your more a casual player there is no issue if you stick to the Tier 4 ships they are fine and your first is free. The cost of the Fleet Ship modules is elective and I would get one if you fancy them.
I happen to play a few f2p games World of Tanks for PvP, Champions PvP and PvE and STO PvE and Fleet Roleplay are my top ones.
If I want to hammer on people I don't come here I go to WoT's usually which doesn't favor spending money for an advantage and Champions online you can choose if your up against Freeforms (their version of the wallet warriors here) or not hit the archetype ones.
Just seems to me looking at this game there is no way to seperate the wallet warriors and regular joes, unless you go item by item a ship has in it or something I would think that would be hard to do.
I looked over the missions and all if you do many of them you can get very cool things for your ships. For reference in Champions online a good friend hit 40th level, has a dozen pets and sidekicks and never spent a dime and is one of the best PvP characters in the game. Maybe you need to do that here do the missions, load up on the good tech and then play with the best ship you can get. I will add on topic again the Fleet Ships are not much worse than Tier 5 ships you buy in fact most look competative in design. If its the case that one extra unit in the ship or that added 8-9% armor is a critical difference do what we do in World of Tanks play to what you are good at.
For example one PvP Team match I destroyed my ship with a big boom after my team tracctor beamed and gravity welled away and I took out three big vessels. Then hello just came back to fight in a bit. Death is not death in this game you just have to go back and keep trying. And yes I was clearly weaker but my tank build did what it does well kept me in the fight and taking hits for the team, and did still get in some kills. There is a reason for Respawning in some games. In WoT your tank dies your done with the match.
My view is on the Fleet Ships get one if you want, if not spend a bit more for another vessel there are ample options if you want to and if your more a casual player there is no issue if you stick to the Tier 4 ships they are fine and your first is free. The cost of the Fleet Ship modules is elective and I would get one if you fancy them.
You are politely trying to address the issue, so I cannot badger you with a clean conscience, however it is very clear (and by your own admission to being an RPer and PvEer first and foremost) you do not PvP very much, and to that end do not have the experience some of us do in what works, and what does not work in that scenario.
That said, I refer you again to the two options I presented to you.
1.) Take your Tier 4 ship and fight my heavily decked out Armitage (8x ACC3 weapons, all pay-to-win consoles, and of course it is a pay-to-win ship). If you win, obviously I am very wrong in my statements about PvP and the ships and I will even publicly apologize.
If I win, however, that is to state the contrary.
2.) Statistically place the basic Tier 4 RA Fleet Escort (don't know or care what its new name is) with whatever upgrades you can buy with basic Energy Credits against the new Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier (the Armitage +1) with the additional hull, shields, console, fighters, AMS, Graviton Pulse (admittedly available with EC as well), the torp console, and whatever other goodies I feel like putting in it that are available with Zen.
Take these two ships and have them be piloted by equal skilled PvPers, so that there is no bias between them.
I will promise you, 10/10 engagements, the Fleet Heave Escort Carrier will win, and it will win with great ease by comparison to the Fleet Escort.
You seem like a fairly intelligent individual, so I won't badger insults. But honestly, if you told me that this power difference in PvP didn't matter, I'd be very tempted to smack you upside the head. Admitting your own inexperience with PvP by comparison, this is simply something you'd have to take my word on as an experienced PvPer.
For PvE/RP? You're absolutely correct. It wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. PvE is mind-numbingly boring and easy, so you can take shuttles and win just about every mission.
RP is... well, you should know that answer without me even having to say it.
PvP? The power difference... ANY power difference... is glaringly obvious, similar to stubbing your toe...
...with a sledgehammer.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
i sse people trying to justify what pwe is doing with the fleet modules. if you figure all the work done and in game material spent and in many cases cash paid for master keys to unlock lock boxes and so on. i should not still have to pay $20 cash out of my pocket to buy a stupid little "fleet ship module" to get an extra concole space and a little extra hull strength. i've been playing this game long before it became ftp which means i have also paid even more cash in the long run to get to the point to get these items. to those who have never put any other money into making this game a success 20 dollars may not seem like a lot. but to those who have already paid our dues it is stupid. besides not all of us can just go to mommy and daddy and ask for money to pend on video games. most of us have lives and other things to spend that 20 bucks on.
Comments
I have a simple question in my one fleet I'm in now my character has a basic Star Cruiser and much of my equipment I got at modest prices, drops or from the fleet bank as member withdrawals and my ship is pretty nasty.
What is the big deal you seem not to need a Tier 5 ship to compete in PvE and I would think with a good bridge crew and Tier XI and XII equipment plus cool things you find and earn on missions you can compete. So the game is f2p in the important sense of the word you can get most of the things you need in game. And I'm sure if you have a capital ship of the line they will as a fleet help you out outfitting if you ask.
That one statement made everything you said completely laughable at best.
I have no interest in that.
How many times must I repeat myself before it sinks in?
I WANT PVP.
TO BE COMPETITIVE IN PVP, YOU WILL WIELD INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE WITH BOUGHT GEAR. THIS IS WHERE THE TERM PAY-TO-WIN STEMS FROM. PAY WITH DOLLARS, OR PAY WITH MONTHS/YEARS OF PVE GRIND JUST TO BE ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY PVP.
IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.
Has it sunk in yet?
PvE is not my concern.
Any argument you make for PvE will go in one ear and out the other as it is completely and totally IRRELEVANT to me.
Dost thou comprehendeth yet?
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
This brings up something else, Why isn't their a fleet version of the MVAE? The defiant is the only escort that qualifies for the discount on the FSMs.
(lot of posts in this thread please forgive if this is a repeat) If you own the C-store version of a ship then the Fleet version is 75% off.
While it DOES suck that these ships require not only a **** ton of work but also more money.
A good day's worth of loot sold on the exchange can net you that.
Not to mention buying items on the exchange below vendor buyback, and crafting low tier ship weapons for sale.
I bought one on the exchange after playing for about 4 hours. I plan on buying more on the exchange and I hope Cryptic adds some more fleet ships on the KDF, there is a few in the zen/C-store I would buy if they had a fleet version.
and if you have so many toons you need a two or three dozen then you for sure have enough dilithium refining ability to buy all the zen/C-Points you want.
I bought all the KDF CStore ships so now to maintain the ability to be competitive in PvP I have to drop some five more dollars on each of my thirteen KDF toons after I have ground enough fleet cred to get the fleet ship yards open?
If I have enough money next payday I think I will buy a Legacy package for MWO.
I think it is time I cut my losses here and "vote" with my wallet when it comes to my approval of the new STO pay to win.
That's been precisely what I've been trying to convey, and agree with you 100%. MWO and GW2 will be my new crack.
Granted, GW2 won't have the same combat mechanics, but if you want to 100% PvP focus from the time you turn on the game for the first time, you can in that game.
MWO is just pure awesome. "Naval" combat (in that you are controlling massive capital war machines that require forethought to movement, acknowledgement of terrain, etc) and again, you can fully focus on PvP.
This makes me hazahappeh. Sad Pandas become Happy Pandas.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I never said not getting a T5 ship decked out is a good thing in PvP but you can do PvP just die a bit faster and have to try a bit harder to compete you don't have to spend one penny on the game ever. This is the same for any other game they offer. And they as the new owners are adding content and moving the game forward when it was clearly stallked for over a year. A decked out Tier 4 ship is still a good ship it just might take some more effort to win with it and compete in some cases.
Seocond point its a company they need to make money on the game or they will drop it so your opposed to the new ships and pricing fine but spending the money keeps this game active.
Would you rather the game not have changes at all or worse gone for good I happen to like STO like I enjoy Champions Online (I hated a change there but love other changes).
I didn't say it before, but now I wonder why it is you still play this game if you don't like the way it's run. Even if those other games are a few months away, there are plenty of other games out there that can occupy your time. You could also revisit one of your older games.
You're joking right? Their games tend to be decent, but their trend towards monetizing every single facet of a game is leaving most of their games empty shadows of what they were. Yes they make money, but that alone does not make them a good company. There are plenty of other MMO's that are F2P and don't try to force you to pay or grind excessively to enjoy the game.
Broken down for the simpler folk to understand.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Because Guild Wars 2 and Mech Warrior Online haven't launched yet.
No other reason.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
You points are valid for you, but...
I love STO's game play, (especially in space). I would continue to play only STO if the ability to compete in PvP was not getting so monetized.
I have dropped well over a thousand dollars, (just in the CStore), in two years of STO play. I would like to get a little of my monies worth. Beyond that a break will do me good. It will also convey to the Devs et all exactly what a market like me will not bear.
That said do you think you will see me in game? Yeah I will pay for no more than my sub till MWO launches then I will stop giving STO money and take a break. You will only see me as a sliver and in game for one of two reasons, for the friends I have made in 10 Forward as well as in PvP and to see if STO pulls it's collective heads out of it's monetizing rear long enough to realize a fraking per account only space suit for seven dollars is in it's own way near as bad as Eve's sixty five dollar monocle. Even Eve managed to learn from Monocle-gate, STO just might learn from Module-gate.
At least I can hope they will learn. The best way to learn 'em is not not pay the price, use the money to buy cool stuff, in my case, for my 1956 Ford F100. A windshield and LED turn signal indicators would only be the start. Paint, a blueprinted and balanced rebuild of the 289 bored and stroked to 351cid with a 3' Borla exhaust would be a nice follow through. $1800 would put a huge dent in that Christmas list. Oh yeah Jacklalope you and Chip Foose are not the only ones willing to drop dimes on vehicular performance, (that would be a reference to a purple Prowler there).
Mmmm my ZRX1200R could use more love. Old school spun aluminum PM Chicane race rims and a full race exhaust with a stage two jet kit just got my wheels rolling. Some inverted BPF forks and a six speed transmission stolen from a couple junkyard ZX1200s, (and the trans would bolt right up as the engines in both models are the exact same within the 2004 year range, oh yeah going from five gears to six would be SWEET!). I could more than do that with the 1800 I dropped on the virtual carp in this game.
Priorities man. It's all about the priorities. Having fun and looking cool so I can strike manly rebel poses for the honies when near my rides I think is better and yields more tangible results than boasting about a C-Store fleet ship that took me three months and twenty five to thirty dollars to grind on one of my fifteen toons.
You don't have to buy anything in this game to play it to the end with great satisfaction. I did it. The OPTION of buying things is always there. There is nothing in this game that can't be done with standard equipment and ships. Purchasing is a choice, not a necessity. If you really don't have money/want to spend the money, please don't. If you don't have the time to grind (just like in every other game) then don't. Gaming is all about choices/options. If you feel like the only way for you to keep up with the Joneses is to purchase, then purchase, but blaming a company for making money is silly. They give you a free game to play, if you want to super new stuff and buying it is the only option, buy some stuff.
PvPer's for as long as there have been MMO's that allowed PvPing, you guys have ruined it with your incessant whining because someone smoked you TRIBBLE. Every time a power or equipment gets nerfed, there is a PvPer behind it. If you don't PVE, then don't PVE. No reason to ruin it for the MAJORITY who do! Oh yeah, at some point you did or you wouldn't be where you are. Wait one sec, I don't believe that PvPer's should have to grind in the game to get better equipment. although when you think about it, isn't repeatedly fighting in PvP the same as grinding in PVE if there was a reward system set up for it?
If you are truly unsatisfied with a game, GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME AND QUIT YOUR COMPLAINING!! It gets old very fast! There is no game that is going to satisfy everyone. Trust me on that one. Find one that doesn't have as many faults. I know that is not the appropriate answer to that statement, but i get really sick and tired of hearing people say they are going to go play another game and then continue to post there discontent about the game and say they are going to play another game.
Arena Net is successful because they were the first, not the best. There game are mediocre at best. I have played them all and find ALL of them lacking. Paying a monthly fee for game access is fine, paying for an expansion to a game I already own and pay you monthly for is just as bad as what all the other F2P companies do. Again it's better to find a game that mostly suits you are play it until it doesn't.
If this is not the game you are looking for, then...move along.
I too will be playing GW2 and still staying with STO.
Yeah many of us seem to be ready to move on to one degree or another without your invective. I hope many come to fill our ranks so that game development monies continues to flow into PWE coffers after we move on, (you know to one degree or another).
I had a few replies, the rest was simply corrections to your text. Hope it helps.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Forgive me for not responding to this in my first post to you but have you considered that it is possible the reason we come back and voice our opinions is because despite getting fed up there is something about the game we really enjoy and are passionate about?
Is it not possible that we see what could be, or see what is awesome and get frustrated that little is done to improve it? What is the crime in checking in with the hope that something may have changed.
What kind of crime is it to ask for what we think would be cool or fun just like you PvEers do?
What would be great is to be able to voice our concerns, opinions and hopes without having the moniker, "whiner," levied against us.
Oh and before I leave you with that last thought have you considered that complaining about us complaining is the same as whining about us whining?
PvEers have concerns just as PvPers do, it seems to me PvErs whine, percentage wise you know, the same that PvPers do. It's just that PvEers tend to complain without theory, empirical experience or numbers to back them. Well you do cite emperical experience but it's always couched in terms of making your game against an unthinking opponent even more lopsided than it already is.
Edited to add: My roommate's kid is out to visit for the summer. He started to play STO this last spring and I tried to teach him but it was difficult to do via in game chat. Then it was always, "Come help me with this mission." and "OMG! This mission is too hard."
So now with him in the same room where I could explain as I showed him. So I taught him some PvP tricks and set him loose against the PvE missions. Within the first combat both on the ground and in space he exclaimed, "OMG! This is so easy!" I told him that was why I PvP when I can. Real minds are so much more unpredictable than the AI this game uses. I swear the AI in MineCraft is more challenging.
What I find puzzling is though the pvpers in STO continue to demand for something that is (no pun intended) futile at this point. Cryptic has been selling power in the cashshop which is a clear indication of not being concerned in the least for pvp balance. Any other MMO with any care for pvp wouldn't be so heavy-handed with selling power or not at all. But Cryptic with their actions proves time and time again they will never ever give pvp any sort of chance.
To be perfectly honest I don't even understand why pvpers are still in this game at all in this point. It's like watching a group of people just bash their own skulls over a brick wall or putting hopes into something which will never change. Hell right now GW1, SWTOR and even TSW offer great pvp. GW1 offers it right from the box no leveling required.
You're actually very correct, I really can't deny your points.
I suppose my major flaw is I don't simply run when a problem presents itself. I'm a man who believes in correcting problems, not continuing them and hiding our shame under a rug like a coward and failure.
It could very well be a flaw... but that persistence has lead me to be successful in real life with a damn fine job, a beautiful wife, and a brilliant child.
Why should it not apply elsewhere?
Call me a sucker I suppose. I aspire for better things, and STO has that potential.
They just **** on it at every turn.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
The missions are fun, the PvE team games are fun, the new Fleet mechanics awesome and the PW company is just trying to make money and offer more content. And some are attacking them over one mechanic the Fleet Ships which are optional like I stated a Tier 4 ship in a fleet decked out decently with a good crew and player can do PvE well and do missions well enough. In PvP team games they are likely a weaker link but the Tier 5 ships are just marginally better in a fleet usually more hull points and one device added in its not a big deal breaker.
If you don't like to do PvE fleet actions and the like then fine go play a game where PvP is better, if you stay you must accept the way the game is and send productive input to the company for changes you might like. But you can get an Odyssey for 200,000 Fleet Credits so I don't see the issue if you can't get modules then wait and buy a ship that way.
Noone is forcing players to do anything you can play free from Level 1 to Level 50 and never spend a dime and have fun if you like the game and are willing to settle with less of an advantage in one area PvP after some point in the game.
As always... responses in red.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Aw well. Can't say I didn't try to offer the alternative. "Ignorance is strength!" says the PvE community of STO... or at least its forum. Collective punishment has never been a good idea, so I will limit it where it belongs and the end result is that the forum is only visited by a small percentage of the population as a whole.
That said, will continue to log in to contribute to SOB's forced PvE slavery via the starbase system in order for the fleet to remain competitive in PvP and when my resources are exhausted...
...because I refuse to mimic the cowards here...
...I will simply not log in anymore and hold my breath for Guild Wars 2's head start on August 25th.
That way all the carebears will be rid of the mean old Hakaishin who insists that they hurt their brains and think instead of using voided ideas, or consider an idea from the perspective of another human being before ranting off nonsense.
So cruel of me...
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
If I want to hammer on people I don't come here I go to WoT's usually which doesn't favor spending money for an advantage and Champions online you can choose if your up against Freeforms (their version of the wallet warriors here) or not hit the archetype ones.
Just seems to me looking at this game there is no way to seperate the wallet warriors and regular joes, unless you go item by item a ship has in it or something I would think that would be hard to do.
I looked over the missions and all if you do many of them you can get very cool things for your ships. For reference in Champions online a good friend hit 40th level, has a dozen pets and sidekicks and never spent a dime and is one of the best PvP characters in the game. Maybe you need to do that here do the missions, load up on the good tech and then play with the best ship you can get. I will add on topic again the Fleet Ships are not much worse than Tier 5 ships you buy in fact most look competative in design. If its the case that one extra unit in the ship or that added 8-9% armor is a critical difference do what we do in World of Tanks play to what you are good at.
For example one PvP Team match I destroyed my ship with a big boom after my team tracctor beamed and gravity welled away and I took out three big vessels. Then hello just came back to fight in a bit. Death is not death in this game you just have to go back and keep trying. And yes I was clearly weaker but my tank build did what it does well kept me in the fight and taking hits for the team, and did still get in some kills. There is a reason for Respawning in some games. In WoT your tank dies your done with the match.
My view is on the Fleet Ships get one if you want, if not spend a bit more for another vessel there are ample options if you want to and if your more a casual player there is no issue if you stick to the Tier 4 ships they are fine and your first is free. The cost of the Fleet Ship modules is elective and I would get one if you fancy them.
You are politely trying to address the issue, so I cannot badger you with a clean conscience, however it is very clear (and by your own admission to being an RPer and PvEer first and foremost) you do not PvP very much, and to that end do not have the experience some of us do in what works, and what does not work in that scenario.
That said, I refer you again to the two options I presented to you.
1.) Take your Tier 4 ship and fight my heavily decked out Armitage (8x ACC3 weapons, all pay-to-win consoles, and of course it is a pay-to-win ship). If you win, obviously I am very wrong in my statements about PvP and the ships and I will even publicly apologize.
If I win, however, that is to state the contrary.
2.) Statistically place the basic Tier 4 RA Fleet Escort (don't know or care what its new name is) with whatever upgrades you can buy with basic Energy Credits against the new Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier (the Armitage +1) with the additional hull, shields, console, fighters, AMS, Graviton Pulse (admittedly available with EC as well), the torp console, and whatever other goodies I feel like putting in it that are available with Zen.
Take these two ships and have them be piloted by equal skilled PvPers, so that there is no bias between them.
I will promise you, 10/10 engagements, the Fleet Heave Escort Carrier will win, and it will win with great ease by comparison to the Fleet Escort.
You seem like a fairly intelligent individual, so I won't badger insults. But honestly, if you told me that this power difference in PvP didn't matter, I'd be very tempted to smack you upside the head. Admitting your own inexperience with PvP by comparison, this is simply something you'd have to take my word on as an experienced PvPer.
For PvE/RP? You're absolutely correct. It wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. PvE is mind-numbingly boring and easy, so you can take shuttles and win just about every mission.
RP is... well, you should know that answer without me even having to say it.
PvP? The power difference... ANY power difference... is glaringly obvious, similar to stubbing your toe...
...with a sledgehammer.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin