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Caitian Atrox Carrier vs Tholian Recluse Carrier
kaeaja
Member Posts: 517 Arc User
Ummm okay so i looked at the STO online Wiki in regards to both these ships....and overall it seems like the Tholian Recluse is better....i mean its got better manuverability for one...everything about it just screams superior to the Atrox, so could someone please tell me in what areas either ship is better then the other in cause i love the Atrox...
From what ive read the Recluse has the follow pros over the Atrox
Stronger Hull, better manuverability both turning and movement, 5 bridge officer slots which im well aware that two of which are Ensign level, the Tac and 1 of the sci boff slots, but then it has that Commander universal slot, plus the console which allows it to buff ally energy damage (wheres the Atrox's special console?) and also gives an extra effect to the Tholian Recluse's fighters in that they reflect 2 Tetryon beam attacks at near by enemies. As well as 2 Tac consoles, 4 Engineer Consoles and 4 Sci Consoles, as well as two hangar bays? Honestly what the heck?
And as for the Atrox
Weaker hull, inferior manuverability both turning and movement, 4 bridge officers granted they are a Lt. Tac, Lt. Commander Engineer, Lt. Commander Sci and Commander Sci, no special console, weaker shields, and only 3 engie console slots vs the Tholian Recluse's 4...all in all it seems to me that the Atrox is getting hosed.....
and I know full well to get Lobi Crystals to buy the Tholian Recluse requires time, but heres the thing, you can get the keys to open the lock boxes to get Lobi Crystals by using nothing but Energy Credits, never having to pay a freaken cent of real money, to buy the keys, and a player who knows the way of the game can make tons of Energy Credits in a shorter time then it would take to get enough freaken dilithium to exchange on the Dilithium Exchange for Zen Points....so yeah the way the Tholian Recluse is, is not fair in the slightest when compared to the Atrox...
Oh btw, the wiki will tell you that the following about the Tholian Recluse "Apart from this, however, the Recluse Carrier has virtually no offensive potential whatsoever, suffering from the same deficiencies that defined its predecessor, the Caitian Atrox Carrier." Yeah right, as i mentioned above, its got that energy damage increasing console, Atrox, has nothing like that.
From what ive read the Recluse has the follow pros over the Atrox
Stronger Hull, better manuverability both turning and movement, 5 bridge officer slots which im well aware that two of which are Ensign level, the Tac and 1 of the sci boff slots, but then it has that Commander universal slot, plus the console which allows it to buff ally energy damage (wheres the Atrox's special console?) and also gives an extra effect to the Tholian Recluse's fighters in that they reflect 2 Tetryon beam attacks at near by enemies. As well as 2 Tac consoles, 4 Engineer Consoles and 4 Sci Consoles, as well as two hangar bays? Honestly what the heck?
And as for the Atrox
Weaker hull, inferior manuverability both turning and movement, 4 bridge officers granted they are a Lt. Tac, Lt. Commander Engineer, Lt. Commander Sci and Commander Sci, no special console, weaker shields, and only 3 engie console slots vs the Tholian Recluse's 4...all in all it seems to me that the Atrox is getting hosed.....
and I know full well to get Lobi Crystals to buy the Tholian Recluse requires time, but heres the thing, you can get the keys to open the lock boxes to get Lobi Crystals by using nothing but Energy Credits, never having to pay a freaken cent of real money, to buy the keys, and a player who knows the way of the game can make tons of Energy Credits in a shorter time then it would take to get enough freaken dilithium to exchange on the Dilithium Exchange for Zen Points....so yeah the way the Tholian Recluse is, is not fair in the slightest when compared to the Atrox...
Oh btw, the wiki will tell you that the following about the Tholian Recluse "Apart from this, however, the Recluse Carrier has virtually no offensive potential whatsoever, suffering from the same deficiencies that defined its predecessor, the Caitian Atrox Carrier." Yeah right, as i mentioned above, its got that energy damage increasing console, Atrox, has nothing like that.
Post edited by kaeaja on
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Comments
Then you dont know how to use the Atrox.
That may be so. I used it maybe twice, because it's so rubbish.
Remember that the Tholian carrier isn't bound after you purchase it from the Lobi store. There were 2-3 of them below 100 million on the exchange yesterday.
Well im sorry that the Atrox doesn't conform to your Klingon standards, oh wait thats right the Atrox is a Federation ship, not a Klingon ship.
Regardless, that doesn't justify how it makes me feel like its way better then the Atrox.
A game needs balance, and the balance needs to be obvious enough that everyone sees it, im not seeing the balance between the Atrox and the Recluse, so someone needs to help me see that before I acknowledge the Recluse as balanced in comparison to all other ships, otherwise its unbalanced and makes the Atrox look like nothing, which I dont personally believe as I love it and will keep using the Atrox, but when i look at the numbers that is what i see, the Atrox needs a buff, pure and simple.
Captain, U.S.S Transcendent
Explorers Fleet, Senior Member
The real issue is the layout of the engsin slots. Becuase the second Engsin is sci not eng you bassiclly lose any and all tanking ability if you don't put the commander to engeneeir. It's a hugely easy to kill target by comparision to the atrox.
If you put in a Tac to make up for it's lack of Tac in the first place, you are limited in Eng and Sci Options. If you put in a Sci or Eng in there, you become the ultimate in that field... but severly lose out on damage potential, along with the other option.
Granted, this is before career professions come in, but that's basically how the Recluse works: either you're the absolute best at one propest, at the expense of the others (Sci and Eng)... or you're fairly balanced (Tac). The Atrox only seems weaker because it's a Sci Carrier, built for specific purposes, and hence doesn't have as much versaltility.
Then there's the cost, as mentioned above. You can get the Atrox for a guarenteed 2500 Zen, but the Recluse? Much more expensive overall, and that cost relies on luck.
Point is, the Atrox is perfectly fine. And those who actually can get the Recluse can make their own judgements based on play time, not just looking at it's stats
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
(Granted, you do have to be more patient due to the daily Dilithium refinement limits, but it can be done. I purchased my Odyssey set using in-game assists only...)
You don't. You guys really worship too much the raw dps value. Debuffing is far more important than hitting hard, especially if you run a carrier. And the Science debuffs can turn your carrier into a deadly machine. I can solo regular cubes in elite STF in 20-30s with the tholian carrier.
I've run the Atrox since it was released, and I see the difference with the Tholian carrier. It's just... superior. In many things.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Which is exactly the problem, no ship like the Recluse should be superior in many things then a same tier ship like the Atrox or Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit, otherwise if one ship was so superior to others in its tier, there would be no point in using them and their exsistance would be pointless. Some people may not want to use the Recluse because they hate how it looks or how its boff slots are set up, and because of that FACT, all equally tiered ships have to be balanced so that the ONLY DIFFERENCE is play style with the ship, and im not seeing that balance between these two ships, so this needs to be fixed, oh and also, as far as i can tell, the Atrox is the only Zen Point ship that does NOT have a console, why is that? Give the Atrox a console and ill probably see better balancing between these two ships, otherwise the effort having to be put into getting the Recluse justifies nothing.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
The lockbox ships are supposed to be slightly superior to c-store ones. It's not something cryptic claims in every occasion, but they admitted it when they updated the galor, the bug and the d'kora for season 6.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
And im saying they shouldnt be better, C-store ships ought to be the best because they often times require you to pay real money so they HAVE to be worth it, end of story. It can take months just to get enough dilithium to convert into Zen/C-points, so yeah im right.
The 53 boxes I've opened have averaged 5.07, or 158 boxes to get 800.
If I had wanted the carrier, better use of those 53 master keys would be to sell them on the exchange. At 1.8 million per that would have been 95,400,000, approximately the going exchange rate for the carrier.
File a complaint form?
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
If lock boxes didn't give advantages over C-Store ships no one would buy keys and try for the grand prize. People aren't going to drop big bucks on essentially new skins for existing ship designs.
Then don't spend money on gambling, that's essentially what you're doing. Instead of opening boxes, sell the boxes and sell keys. This way, at least you end up with EC. Use the EC that you earn to buy yourself the stuff from the exchange. Let other people worry about collecting 800 lobi, or being disappointed with countless boxes that they open. Just sell them the stuff that they need to do it, and then purchase their prize from them with the very EC that they put in your pocket.
I'm sure there's a rule of acquisition about that somewhere lol
You spend real money to get both of the ships in question. Lets face it, if the Tholian carrier wasn't better than the c-store ship, there would be no reason to want it if you can, on average, spend much less and buy a better ship from the c-store. There has to be incentive to encourage people to gamble.
(Ok, no one has posted a thoron device description on the wiki yet.)
In case you missed it though, the Stalkers are the Atrox's conole. In case you missed the part about their being able to sesnor jam targets (~30% iirc), or the thoron device being a type of torpedo?
http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Antiproton_Sweep
http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Mask_Energy_Signature
Note the sweep is a AoE anti-cloak and shield damage ability, and that MES gives a +30-50% defense for five seconds. There is also the note they do tetryon damage which will help pile on the shield damage when twelve of them are hammering away.
Edit: They can also cripple auxiliary systems. Which mostly just hurts if your a science captain. It also impacts your ability to spot clocked targets. Which, granted isn't going to hurt federation or Klingon players much.
I suspect targets in general as cloaking works by making act as if they were 400+Km away, but I've yet to test that.
Stalker are nice, mystical and come with this sort of unknown to read all those great power's in the tooltip.
In actual gameplay only the Type 8/10 shuttles do less in damage and utility.
As a die hard KDF Carrier Cpt. through all the iterrations and nerf and buffs and nerf i bought the ATROX without a second thought.
The ship has three main issues lowest turnrate for a Carrier, no LCdr tac station and no frigate type pets.
Not just the Recluse is way stronger then a ATROX it is the ATROX is weaker then every other Carrier.
Should i have to compare the KDF Carrier with the Recluse i would say i take a Vo'Quv or Kar'Fi maybe even a Marauder any time over the Recluse.
I believe that's the idea, now everyone be a good game supporter and go buy more lockboxes.
Atrox cost what, $20
Tholain Recluse ( for me ) $150 - That is why it is better.
Hurrah! I love my tholian carrier, and its cool pets!