What? Cryptic doing QA on foundry missions! This is... Preposterious! Its Uncomprehendable! Someone prolly just tripped over the cord to the computer publishing all the foundry missions, and they just didnt notice it for 7 days xD That or the foundry Publishing Hamsters got tired. Hay! U guys remembering to feed your server hamsters right?
PS: Its our job to do QA on our own foundry missions. Why should the GMs determine if its working
1.) I'd like to see Cryptic/Perfect World Entertainment provide a status. We have paid for access to the Foundry via our subscription levels. We are providing content for STO. These delays are unacceptable.
2.) While I feel for the technical/engineering team(s), Quality Assurance (QA) work was not done -- or budget/resources were not adequately addressed by management for proper QA work.
As someone with a background in this, I can tell you that most companies would have someone's head on a platter at this point. This impacts the product (STO) image in too many ways.
And while I recognize the importance of STO Season Six being released for sales/revenue reasons, this reminds us that the Foundry is NOT regarded as a high priority, nor a sales/revenue lead.
I've stayed away from STO Foundry development for a while, waiting for PWE to take the Foundry revisions/updates more seriously. The past state of the Foundry tools/libraries limited what I wanted to do in my next Foundry mission work. I actually tried logging into the Foundry today, wasn't able to connect to it, then came to the forums to see what was going on.
This is truly sad, as PWE fails to grasp the importance of Foundry work by the STO community, particularly for new content between seasons/major updates.
I want to see daily compensation for lack of STO Foundry access. At minimum, 100 dilithium crystals per day, retroactively to the day which the STO Foundry access was denied to users.
Or Zen points, if PWE is unwilling to issue in-game dilithium.
I'm asking this, as that equates to donations which aren't being received in-game from Foundry development work/editing/publishing missions, due to STO Foundry downtime.
They have provided us with an update, they found some bugs and they're trying to fix it. Imagine not just changing the foundry but making sure every single one of the hundreds of foundry missions still work, with each author using the foundry differently. I personally want Cryptic to do it right, and if that takes a little more time then so be it. No one wants to see a rush job and then a "Season 4"
I also disagree with people saying PWE/Cryptic is not putting a high priority on the foundry. If they didn't care about it at all why even bother putting resources into updating it? Plenty of authors had been making amazing missions with it already. They even included it in the Season six trailer.
We have found several more bugs after yesterday's build went live. It is going to take us a bit longer to get them fixed, tested and into a release build.
We have found several more bugs after yesterday's build went live. It is going to take us a bit longer to get them fixed, tested and into a release build.
You can't prevent every bug from happening. That's how it goes, anyway.
I'm not talking about "every bug", I'm talking about this bug. This isnt some minor bug either; the entire Foundry is offline. Why wasnt the foundry thoroughly tested on tribble?
I'm not talking about "every bug", I'm talking about this bug. This isnt some minor bug either; the entire Foundry is offline. Why wasnt the foundry thoroughly tested on tribble?
What do you mean this bug? How is it different from another bug? If there's bugs they should do what they're doing now and fix it before turning the foundry back on.
Well I'll say it once for anyone who's willing to listen and has not been part of a software development life-cycle.
During development you'll find bugs, during testing you'll find bugs and during release you'll find bugs. Sometimes they're minor things that you can deal with in a patch and other times you're working the entire weekend fueled by energy drinks.
Well I'll say it once for anyone who's willing to listen and has not been part of a software development life-cycle.
During development you'll find bugs, during testing you'll find bugs and during release you'll find bugs. Sometimes they're minor things that you can deal with in a patch and other times you're working the entire weekend fueled by energy drinks.
Not denying any of that. But I am questioning how much attention the devs actually paid the Foundry while season 6 was on Tribble. There are some things which you simply cant anticipate. There are others which could have been with good testing, and this isnt the first time a season launch broke the foundry.
I'm not talking about "every bug", I'm talking about this bug. This isnt some minor bug either; the entire Foundry is offline. Why wasnt the foundry thoroughly tested on tribble?
Read my sig, then ask yourself why you didn't write/play foundry missions on tribble. :mad:
The difference is that there are hundreds or thousands of foundry missions on Holodeck, but only a few on Tribble. When I was testing on Tribble, there were only 3 playable KDF Foundry missions, and I wrote one of them.
And despite the amount of time I spent testing things on Tribble, I never encountered the current bug.
We should try to be patient, gang. After all, remember season 4.
We should be very glad that there are devs testing, bug fixing, etc., instead of just breaking all of our missions and leaving to us to fix.
Again, remember season 4. The sto team broke nearly every mission and it didn't even make Dstahl's list of known issues. That was how disconnected the teams were and how little testing or foresight went into the whole process.
Be patient and let them do what they need to do. It's frustrating, but not as frustrating as boken missions, missing dialogues, and falling through the floors (although that bug is probably still around).
Be patient and let them do what they need to do. It's frustrating, but not as frustrating as boken missions, missing dialogues, and falling through the floors (although that bug is probably still around).
If your point is that its better to eventually have working missions than have broken mission right now, well...duh. But that doesnt mean this shouldnt have been addressed on tribble, or that we shouldnt tell them as much.
If your point is that its better to eventually have working missions than have broken mission right now, well...duh. But that doesnt mean this shouldnt have been addressed on tribble, or that we shouldnt tell them as much.
My point is that we're lucky to get QA at all, considering the history of the tool, the lack of updates, and the seeming disregard the sto team had for it between March of 2011 and March of 2012.
They also did some kind of clone of the missions on HD and went through a autopublish test, if I recall what Zero told us.
Anyways, my point is that you can't reasonably expect a perfect transition for the foundry. It's still full of bugs from day one. It's been a bug filled mess through most of the seasons. It even started leaking into the main game. I can't remember if that was before or after many of our dialogues went entirely missing.
They are aware of bugs and trying to fix some. That is a nice change, and I'll try to be patient.
Anyways, my point is that you can't reasonably expect a perfect transition for the foundry.
Perfect? Of course not. However IMO it is equally unreasonable that the entire foundry system should be offline as it would be to expect a perfect bug free season. There should be a happy medium in between. That would be the foundry itself being up and running, with some minor bugs that still need squashing.
As much as I hate to say it, it took at least a weeks effort the last time they ported 4 missions. Now why it is that when they created the Tribble image, they couldnt have copied the entire foundry database along side the main one and done a test build that way, I dont know. I assume there are time constraints and other things I am not aware of.
I do think though that in the future even if its an internal server, there is an attempt to do a test build and troubleshoot these conversion issues behind the scenes more thoroughly, ESPECIALLY if there are more and more updates to come down the pipeline
As much as I hate to say it, it took at least a weeks effort the last time they ported 4 missions.
That was a port from tribble to holodeck, which is very difficult and the reason they said they cannot transfer characters on tribble to holodeck when people have asked. But we can easily transfer our characters from holodeck to tribble, so it shouldnt be that much of a problem for them to do the same with a sample group of missions for foundry testing purposes.
Comments
PS: Its our job to do QA on our own foundry missions. Why should the GMs determine if its working
That's not very reassuring - we all know what happened to that ship. :P
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
I;m going on at least three months now.
We're all going to die!
My character Tsin'xing
2.) While I feel for the technical/engineering team(s), Quality Assurance (QA) work was not done -- or budget/resources were not adequately addressed by management for proper QA work.
As someone with a background in this, I can tell you that most companies would have someone's head on a platter at this point. This impacts the product (STO) image in too many ways.
And while I recognize the importance of STO Season Six being released for sales/revenue reasons, this reminds us that the Foundry is NOT regarded as a high priority, nor a sales/revenue lead.
I've stayed away from STO Foundry development for a while, waiting for PWE to take the Foundry revisions/updates more seriously. The past state of the Foundry tools/libraries limited what I wanted to do in my next Foundry mission work. I actually tried logging into the Foundry today, wasn't able to connect to it, then came to the forums to see what was going on.
This is truly sad, as PWE fails to grasp the importance of Foundry work by the STO community, particularly for new content between seasons/major updates.
Shape up your business, PWE.
I want to see daily compensation for lack of STO Foundry access. At minimum, 100 dilithium crystals per day, retroactively to the day which the STO Foundry access was denied to users.
Or Zen points, if PWE is unwilling to issue in-game dilithium.
I'm asking this, as that equates to donations which aren't being received in-game from Foundry development work/editing/publishing missions, due to STO Foundry downtime.
They have provided us with an update, they found some bugs and they're trying to fix it. Imagine not just changing the foundry but making sure every single one of the hundreds of foundry missions still work, with each author using the foundry differently. I personally want Cryptic to do it right, and if that takes a little more time then so be it. No one wants to see a rush job and then a "Season 4"
I also disagree with people saying PWE/Cryptic is not putting a high priority on the foundry. If they didn't care about it at all why even bother putting resources into updating it? Plenty of authors had been making amazing missions with it already. They even included it in the Season six trailer.
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
One Million Quatloos on the Foundry being down until August 1 at the earliest.
Check out Firefly Fleet: http://serenitystation.forumotion.com/
Why didnt you guys handle this on tribble?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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You can't prevent every bug from happening. That's how it goes, anyway.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
I'm not talking about "every bug", I'm talking about this bug. This isnt some minor bug either; the entire Foundry is offline. Why wasnt the foundry thoroughly tested on tribble?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Guess who's back...back again!
What do you mean this bug? How is it different from another bug? If there's bugs they should do what they're doing now and fix it before turning the foundry back on.
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
Because this bug has broken an entire game system. Got any other easy question for me to answer?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Guess who's back...back again!
During development you'll find bugs, during testing you'll find bugs and during release you'll find bugs. Sometimes they're minor things that you can deal with in a patch and other times you're working the entire weekend fueled by energy drinks.
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
Not denying any of that. But I am questioning how much attention the devs actually paid the Foundry while season 6 was on Tribble. There are some things which you simply cant anticipate. There are others which could have been with good testing, and this isnt the first time a season launch broke the foundry.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Guess who's back...back again!
The difference is that there are hundreds or thousands of foundry missions on Holodeck, but only a few on Tribble. When I was testing on Tribble, there were only 3 playable KDF Foundry missions, and I wrote one of them.
And despite the amount of time I spent testing things on Tribble, I never encountered the current bug.
My character Tsin'xing
So why didnt they copy a sample of missions from holodeck to tribble for testing?
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Guess who's back...back again!
We should be very glad that there are devs testing, bug fixing, etc., instead of just breaking all of our missions and leaving to us to fix.
Again, remember season 4. The sto team broke nearly every mission and it didn't even make Dstahl's list of known issues. That was how disconnected the teams were and how little testing or foresight went into the whole process.
Be patient and let them do what they need to do. It's frustrating, but not as frustrating as boken missions, missing dialogues, and falling through the floors (although that bug is probably still around).
If your point is that its better to eventually have working missions than have broken mission right now, well...duh. But that doesnt mean this shouldnt have been addressed on tribble, or that we shouldnt tell them as much.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Guess who's back...back again!
My point is that we're lucky to get QA at all, considering the history of the tool, the lack of updates, and the seeming disregard the sto team had for it between March of 2011 and March of 2012.
They also did some kind of clone of the missions on HD and went through a autopublish test, if I recall what Zero told us.
Anyways, my point is that you can't reasonably expect a perfect transition for the foundry. It's still full of bugs from day one. It's been a bug filled mess through most of the seasons. It even started leaking into the main game. I can't remember if that was before or after many of our dialogues went entirely missing.
They are aware of bugs and trying to fix some. That is a nice change, and I'll try to be patient.
Perfect? Of course not. However IMO it is equally unreasonable that the entire foundry system should be offline as it would be to expect a perfect bug free season. There should be a happy medium in between. That would be the foundry itself being up and running, with some minor bugs that still need squashing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Guess who's back...back again!
I do think though that in the future even if its an internal server, there is an attempt to do a test build and troubleshoot these conversion issues behind the scenes more thoroughly, ESPECIALLY if there are more and more updates to come down the pipeline
That was a port from tribble to holodeck, which is very difficult and the reason they said they cannot transfer characters on tribble to holodeck when people have asked. But we can easily transfer our characters from holodeck to tribble, so it shouldnt be that much of a problem for them to do the same with a sample group of missions for foundry testing purposes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Guess who's back...back again!