This thread is epic. RPer is obviously playing with you guys. No one could possibly be stupid enough to suggest that Cryptic should try to ban third party voice comms.
But if this isn't a ruse, well, that's just sad.
It made me LOL. The technical feasibility of keeping me running other software while I play STO being slim-to-nil and all.
Sure, maybe Cryptic could target one or two like Ventrillo or Teamspeak. But then how many of the Instant Messenger programs (Yahoo, ICQ, AIM, etc) support voice, some of them through a browser window?
Good luck with that.
__________________________________________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Meh, the constant and unavoidable proximity to Neelix is a bit of a put off
Also the hair cut usually sucked. Though there were good ones. Seven of Nine unnecessary sexy outfit was also not really that attractive. Jery Ryan looks hotter in regular clothes...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Swtor and WoW tried to do no rewards for losing and failed miserably. That simply won't work. If losers never get anything, and lose 25 games in a row, they won't be coming back for more pvp. It's not their fault if they get paired with a bad team. What PVP could really use right now is some new maps. I for one would like another Kerrat type warzone map, where you can visit it 24/7.
Swtor and WoW tried to do no rewards for losing and failed miserably. That simply won't work. If losers never get anything, and lose 25 games in a row, they won't be coming back for more pvp. It's not their fault if they get paired with a bad team. What PVP could really use right now is some new maps. I for one would like another Kerrat type warzone map, where you can visit it 24/7.
If they are losing 25 in a row, they'll be doing that regardless. And frankly, gear won't help them if they are losing that badly.
That's called it's time to go ask for help.
WOW and SWTOR, didn't have failed no rewards because it's a bad idea.
they failed because those two games are actually Worse than STO pvp.
No Quest Turn ins for Losing. You should get some dilith at the end of every match (or rather now... Fleet Marks) regardless. However the rewards for winning need to be far greater.
Losers should get "something" but it should pale in comparison to what you get for Victory. None of this happy hippy participation awards TRIBBLE like what we have now.
My experiences with PvP so far have pointed out only one or two things:
1. Unless you've been playing long enough (or have enough money in your zen account) to specific-build a high-end toon JUST for PVP's, it's pretty much a waste of time. esp. if you're NOT a VA with a C-Store ship and all MACO gear. anything less than that, and you're just dead meat.
2. That maxed-out Dreadnought on the other side that can shred an Assault Cruiser in a single strike? yeah, he's going to camp the Spawn point and "Pwn Noobz" as soon as they respawn. There's no "two Minutes" involved (at least, in the Space map), figure more like 15-30 seconds four or more times before the fight ends because one side won.
Full Maco gear for space pvp is lulz. It's 2 omega and 2 borg, or 3 borg and maco shield fedside.
I run VA pvp in an Assault Cruiser, and Recon, and Advanced Escort (without an mvam console) I do more than just fine. I do really damned well.
2: Dreadnoughts are terrible ships, if you are dying to one, you need to redo your build. Especially in an assault cruiser. The first thing you should be doing is Distributing your shields. the second, is making sure your spec is up to snuff. (by the way, pvp builds will Faceroll Pve, in addition to rolling well in pvp) I suggest clicking on my Cruiser thread, if you want to kick the TRIBBLE out of a dreadnought.
Disabling coms is, for lack of a better word, stupid. It's like putting a gag over soccer players mouths. The game has a VOIP, use it. Playing any competitive game without communication vs a team who uses communication is like running into a brick wall. Heck, half the time people who have been playing together long enough don't even need coms half the time. A simple focus target team announcement macro is all thats needed for some groups. Unfortunately most pugs are kirks who don't play together even when focus targets are announced.
You can get plenty of Dilith as you level. Personally I would find a buddy and level through pvp. (you get TONS of dilith and quick xp from the pvp quests and challenge ques set to min kills required)
RA ships do just fine at VA level. Infact a few of them are still optimal, at least until you get your first Fleet Refits.
And you can do pretty well on some shockingly low quality gear. Thissler's vids for example are all filmed on ships with mediocre at best gear. Just match your energy types, get a proper spec, and proper boff layout and you're good to go.
STO is more boff, and spec focused than it is gear. (though Doffs play a Huge Part once you get the hang of things)
The gear is really secondary beyond the basics. Your ship won't work worth jack, if you have all the best gear, but horrible boff and spec choices. I have killed T5 Cruisers, in a Delta Flyer in 5v5s. Live pvp. Why? because I understand quite well how to fully utilize the limited capablities of a flyer's boffs, and picked the right basic gear to use it.
Gear won't save you when you have 18k hull, and under 5k shield points. It won't generate kills either. Or save team mates who are in trouble.
If pugs would across the board to take time and ask questions before getting their faces blown off. (and there are ALOT of them that do this. just figure that their STF gear will get them through it... and have builds so horrid that a T3 ship honestly could take them out if it were loaded out properly) Pvp would be in a much better place right now.
All of which is much easier at, say,(VA L50) than it is at, oh, say(Commander L29-30, with no $$$ in the Zen account), Wouldn't you agree? The OP in this thread speaks of an impression that PvP is "Dying" in competition with PVE scenarios and Fleet activities-which do not require much specialized build and unlike PvP, aren't deeply athletic, investement-centric situations where you have to have JUST the right build or you're toast.
Think of it another way: I can take a Tier 1 or 2 vessel into a Fleet Alert, Fleet Blockade, or Starbase 24 PUG, and while it might not be the most potent ship there, I CAN make a contribution-even just running the gear I've picked up on Missions and the BOFFs I have "As Awarded"-at a "less than Vice Admiral" level of character advancement.
This is a thing you can't DO in PvP, you'll just die. PvP is "Go Big or Go Home", which means it's going to only "HOLD" players who've already pretty much accomplished EVERYTHING ELSE first.
It's the nature of the beast-casual players are easy meat in PvP, new players are easy meat in PvP, there IS no "fix" to this, it's the nature of the beast, with the introduction of things OTHER than PvP for casual players who've made it through the last Undine mission to do (say, after finishing the three or so STF's that are usually on the q), there is LIKELY to be some drop-at least until they get bored grinding Nukara or bored with the Fleet Alerts.
For my part, I'm probably NOT going to try another ship-level PvP until I've put together the right gear and ground enough EC, Dilithium, etc. to pay for the BOFF alterations necessary to do anything OTHER than die quickly and messily to things that dedicated PVP'ers consider "mediocre to mild builds".
I have time for this, my first toon made VA last week, she's got not a lot else on her plate (I just have to find the urge to play her more often than my L29 KDF)
I learned my lesson before posting here-if you aren't prepared, as in the right build on the right ship with the right BOFFs and plenty of friends, you're not going to have much fun in PVP.
It's just the way it works-as a friend whose WoW addiction kept me from even TRYING MMO's for years put it, "Don't put up the PvP flag if you're new, casual, or not totally devoted to it-you're not going to have fun doing it otherwise."
I understand where you're coming from and what you say. I think the answer to your post is a little more complex though. First in pvp you need some techniques, knowledge (from the few left people that still pvp) and good hours of play. No matter how good your gear is, you will loose to veterans. And that's valid in any pvp of any game you play. Nothing beats the knowledge and practice.
Second, you can get decent gear from stfs and exchange, gear that you can use with no worries on pvp. You can buy acc x2 weapons at really good price. You can even start by using your dilithium to buy some of the equipment.
Pve was and still is extremely easy. This is why players with poor pvp performances can accomplish stfs in elite mode. If pve would be made harder (or at least elite to really be a hard mode), it would be a good incentive for players to become better in pvp. They would be stimulate to think, try and look for advices for their setup.
And not lastly, the imbalance and lack of attention to pvp from cryptic creates this "aura" of false ideas that pvp is hard, not worth to invest in, has only players that are rude/mean/etc. We are confronting with a reality of big imbalances that don't affect the pve, but make pvp experience for many something totally unpleasant.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
i don't see a future for PVP without a rating system that matches players to evade onesided matches.
And with the rating system loot scaling with rank inside this rating system.
I think maybe I'm not being clear- my core argument isn't necessarily what you're considering gear-I look at everything from the base toon, to the BOFFS and DOFFs as "Gear" in addition to the ship components. My point is that PVP isn't for beginners, or for people (much like me) who are still in the "Learning how things work" stage.
[...]
Hey man, it's not about being a dinosaur, lol, I'm not getting any younger either, I think at some point you'll have to decide if you like this game enough to be willing to see "how things work" - to quote you. Its really not that hard, if you spend few hours a day playing, read the forums (there are some great advices in the sticky threads) in one month you won't believe how good you'll be compared to when you begun. And you'll like to pvp more. As many people stated in this forum, best way to understand AND learn pvp is to level a tune through pvp. You get great rewards (tons of dilithium and credits) and most important, lower level pvp is much easier due to lack of high end game experienced players -except few that maybe level some other tune also, powers and high tech gear (almost nobody [sane] will spend credits to get purple gear at low level). The sto pvp is mostly a team game, when team healing and focusing fire on a target is more important than solo zombie-Kirk-kills-all-bad-guys attitude. While you're supporting your team, you first need to learn to stay alive (hold on that evasive/deuterium and use it smartly - it also boosts your defense and allows to move/turn quick, when you see you are taking lots of damage, get ready to run/reposition where there are more friendlies, don't use all defensive buffs at once, etc -> read the threads sticky-ed -Husanak's, Mavario's, Matteo's, those hold info on what boffs/ gear you should have for any class of ship, doffs, all the good stuff). Then, you need to get offensive and fine tune your ship.*
Most important of all, keep an open attitude, you have your butt kicked, learn from mistakes. You see somebody whipping you off hard, ask for advices on how he did that. Most players on this forum will gladly offer a hand (you'll find few jackasses too, but that doesn't make the rule, lol)
And the solution to respawn camping: don't respawn. Lol. Ppl will eventually get tired of waiting. Don't forget: pvp is a team game, meaning you heal others when you can, focus fire on same target as your buddies, and always look for an escape route! *At least if you'll end up dead, you made it harder for your foe.
Good luck!
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
they failed because those two games are actually Worse than STO pvp.
No Quest Turn ins for Losing. You should get some dilith at the end of every match (or rather now... Fleet Marks) regardless. However the rewards for winning need to be far greater.
Losers should get "something" but it should pale in comparison to what you get for Victory. None of this happy hippy participation awards TRIBBLE like what we have now.
I don't know that I'd call those games failures. Then again I do agree only the winners should get the spoils of war. I think WoW was a pvp failure because they separated pvp and pve gear. They turned gear into a skinner box at the end of their game because they didn't have player-owned bases for people to grind for. Personally I dream of a day we can burn each other's starbases down & laugh with glee as our opponents stuff becomes our loot.
I believe in KAOS. Kill All On Sight, and games that won't let me do that TRIBBLE me off.
Comments
This is epic.
10/10 quality thread would read again
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
lol.
have fun kill bad guys
It made me LOL. The technical feasibility of keeping me running other software while I play STO being slim-to-nil and all.
Sure, maybe Cryptic could target one or two like Ventrillo or Teamspeak. But then how many of the Instant Messenger programs (Yahoo, ICQ, AIM, etc) support voice, some of them through a browser window?
Good luck with that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Some of us prefer Youtube clips of Orions from TOS. >.>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Also the hair cut usually sucked. Though there were good ones. Seven of Nine unnecessary sexy outfit was also not really that attractive. Jery Ryan looks hotter in regular clothes...
If they are losing 25 in a row, they'll be doing that regardless. And frankly, gear won't help them if they are losing that badly.
That's called it's time to go ask for help.
WOW and SWTOR, didn't have failed no rewards because it's a bad idea.
they failed because those two games are actually Worse than STO pvp.
No Quest Turn ins for Losing. You should get some dilith at the end of every match (or rather now... Fleet Marks) regardless. However the rewards for winning need to be far greater.
Losers should get "something" but it should pale in comparison to what you get for Victory. None of this happy hippy participation awards TRIBBLE like what we have now.
Full Maco gear for space pvp is lulz. It's 2 omega and 2 borg, or 3 borg and maco shield fedside.
I run VA pvp in an Assault Cruiser, and Recon, and Advanced Escort (without an mvam console) I do more than just fine. I do really damned well.
2: Dreadnoughts are terrible ships, if you are dying to one, you need to redo your build. Especially in an assault cruiser. The first thing you should be doing is Distributing your shields. the second, is making sure your spec is up to snuff. (by the way, pvp builds will Faceroll Pve, in addition to rolling well in pvp) I suggest clicking on my Cruiser thread, if you want to kick the TRIBBLE out of a dreadnought.
Delta - Recluse
Omega - Scimitar
Alpha - MVAM
Beta - Wells
Delta - Recluse
Omega - Scimitar
Alpha - MVAM
Beta - Wells
RA ships do just fine at VA level. Infact a few of them are still optimal, at least until you get your first Fleet Refits.
And you can do pretty well on some shockingly low quality gear. Thissler's vids for example are all filmed on ships with mediocre at best gear. Just match your energy types, get a proper spec, and proper boff layout and you're good to go.
STO is more boff, and spec focused than it is gear. (though Doffs play a Huge Part once you get the hang of things)
The gear is really secondary beyond the basics. Your ship won't work worth jack, if you have all the best gear, but horrible boff and spec choices. I have killed T5 Cruisers, in a Delta Flyer in 5v5s. Live pvp. Why? because I understand quite well how to fully utilize the limited capablities of a flyer's boffs, and picked the right basic gear to use it.
Gear won't save you when you have 18k hull, and under 5k shield points. It won't generate kills either. Or save team mates who are in trouble.
If pugs would across the board to take time and ask questions before getting their faces blown off. (and there are ALOT of them that do this. just figure that their STF gear will get them through it... and have builds so horrid that a T3 ship honestly could take them out if it were loaded out properly) Pvp would be in a much better place right now.
I understand where you're coming from and what you say. I think the answer to your post is a little more complex though. First in pvp you need some techniques, knowledge (from the few left people that still pvp) and good hours of play. No matter how good your gear is, you will loose to veterans. And that's valid in any pvp of any game you play. Nothing beats the knowledge and practice.
Second, you can get decent gear from stfs and exchange, gear that you can use with no worries on pvp. You can buy acc x2 weapons at really good price. You can even start by using your dilithium to buy some of the equipment.
Pve was and still is extremely easy. This is why players with poor pvp performances can accomplish stfs in elite mode. If pve would be made harder (or at least elite to really be a hard mode), it would be a good incentive for players to become better in pvp. They would be stimulate to think, try and look for advices for their setup.
And not lastly, the imbalance and lack of attention to pvp from cryptic creates this "aura" of false ideas that pvp is hard, not worth to invest in, has only players that are rude/mean/etc. We are confronting with a reality of big imbalances that don't affect the pve, but make pvp experience for many something totally unpleasant.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
And with the rating system loot scaling with rank inside this rating system.
Hey man, it's not about being a dinosaur, lol, I'm not getting any younger either, I think at some point you'll have to decide if you like this game enough to be willing to see "how things work" - to quote you. Its really not that hard, if you spend few hours a day playing, read the forums (there are some great advices in the sticky threads) in one month you won't believe how good you'll be compared to when you begun. And you'll like to pvp more. As many people stated in this forum, best way to understand AND learn pvp is to level a tune through pvp. You get great rewards (tons of dilithium and credits) and most important, lower level pvp is much easier due to lack of high end game experienced players -except few that maybe level some other tune also, powers and high tech gear (almost nobody [sane] will spend credits to get purple gear at low level). The sto pvp is mostly a team game, when team healing and focusing fire on a target is more important than solo zombie-Kirk-kills-all-bad-guys attitude. While you're supporting your team, you first need to learn to stay alive (hold on that evasive/deuterium and use it smartly - it also boosts your defense and allows to move/turn quick, when you see you are taking lots of damage, get ready to run/reposition where there are more friendlies, don't use all defensive buffs at once, etc -> read the threads sticky-ed -Husanak's, Mavario's, Matteo's, those hold info on what boffs/ gear you should have for any class of ship, doffs, all the good stuff). Then, you need to get offensive and fine tune your ship.*
Most important of all, keep an open attitude, you have your butt kicked, learn from mistakes. You see somebody whipping you off hard, ask for advices on how he did that. Most players on this forum will gladly offer a hand (you'll find few jackasses too, but that doesn't make the rule, lol)
And the solution to respawn camping: don't respawn. Lol. Ppl will eventually get tired of waiting. Don't forget: pvp is a team game, meaning you heal others when you can, focus fire on same target as your buddies, and always look for an escape route! *At least if you'll end up dead, you made it harder for your foe.
Good luck!
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
I don't know that I'd call those games failures. Then again I do agree only the winners should get the spoils of war. I think WoW was a pvp failure because they separated pvp and pve gear. They turned gear into a skinner box at the end of their game because they didn't have player-owned bases for people to grind for. Personally I dream of a day we can burn each other's starbases down & laugh with glee as our opponents stuff becomes our loot.
I believe in KAOS. Kill All On Sight, and games that won't let me do that TRIBBLE me off.