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So, is the mirror Sovreign why we lost the retrofit?
ebeneezergoode
Member Posts: 227 Arc User
This seems like a bit of a kicker to me, as a lot of folks were looking forward to it. Now it seems both sides have had their rosters "pilfered from" to fuel lockbox-mania. On the one hand, a lot of folks'll be able to get it quicker, but it'll become rarer than it would otherwise have been like this.
Have I missed something, or is this the case now? And what're your thoughts on this, am I just too grumpy and whatnot, or are we getting slightly screwed? Or is this better?
Have I missed something, or is this the case now? And what're your thoughts on this, am I just too grumpy and whatnot, or are we getting slightly screwed? Or is this better?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by ebeneezergoode on
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When the ships stats come out it will be interesting to see if the Terran assault cruiser has the boff layout like the fleet assault cruiser had on tribble.
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But is there going to be a Fleet Sovereign and Vor'cha? We still going to be seeing a Sovereign Refit?
These are the things I would really like the team to respond to.
I could see them changing the boff to the fleet version but not making them have 10 consoles so that if/when fleet versions arrive they are "better". As well as the new sov refit in cstore having console/180degree quatum torpedo.
It's possible that the retrofit we saw before was a way for them to test the lockbox ship without telling us what it was.
Another thing to consider is that the retrofit (and Terran version) are likely more aggressive in terms of their build than the Sovereign in general. There were people who wanted the +1 Sovereign to be more like the one bought with dilithium.
They may have looked at it and said, "Well, we've gotten feedback from people who want a ship more like the classic Sovereign for the fleet and C-Store versions. Let's slap a Terran paintjob on it and go back to the drawing board on the C-Store and fleet versions."
My inkling is that the Terran Star Cruiser was originally going to be a Terran Odyssey in the lockboxes, opposite the KCA Klingon ship.
But then they realized they had a Sovereign that wasn't what Sovereign pilots wanted.
So they took that Sovereign, put it in a Terran paintjob. Then they took the Terran Odyssey they had planned and shifted its skin to be a starcruiser so it wouldn't overshadow the Terran Sovereign.
And they figured it was win-win because it meant they had more lockbox prizes than they originally planned, which would make people happy.
Looking at the Tholian missions, though, I think they basically really did plan to have a Fleet Sovereign and a lockbox Terran Odyssey but decided to rework the fleet Sovereign pending the new C-Store Sovereign and were also wary about having too many Odyssseys out there. And so the Fleet Sovereign they were ditching became a Terran Sovereign and the Terran Odyssey they had designed the stats for became a Terran Star Cruiser.
Make sense?
And, yes, Cryptic employees. If you're reading this, I am inside your heads.
I sincerely hope not. One of the main reasons people want a Sovereign +1 was so the assault cruiser could actually assault, rather than being left behind by its ancient predecessor. Though as I understand it, said ancient predecessor just got more armor (hull HP), so the old 'AC tanks, Excelsior fights' balance seems to be dissolving rapidly.
I'd not be a bit surprised if this was ultimately the result of people griping about how it's not the exact same ship. I'm starting to get a bit cynical myself on things like this. Since the chances of me (or anyone else) getting a fleet store AC are rather low even if they add it to the store, the main reason I'd want a Sovvy refit would be going down the drain if this is indeed the case, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
I think there were many factors.
The big one was probably not wanting to release a fleet version before the C-Store version for the upgraded Sovereign. One factor there is that people might complain if they bought 4 modules when in just a couple of months, they could buy a C-Store version and one module and get a new costume too.
So the EXISTING Fleet Sovereign became the Terran Sovereign.
And because there are so many Odyssey variants already and because the Sovereign and Odyssey look so similar, the Terran Odyssey became a Terran Star Cruiser.
And we'll see Fleet Sovereigns someday but only AFTER the C-Store Sovereign comes out.
People want a lot of things to be true that don't mesh with the game's mechanics. You can give a cruiser some teeth but it's never going to be an escort and these Sovereign fanatics really need to get a grip.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I'll speak for myself in regards to that "griping"
The thing is, we captained the Sovereign because we liked that configuration. If we wanted more firepower with the LTC slot, we would've and flew the Excelsior Refit.
At the same time, since we are still in Tier 5, the Sovereign Refit would've trivalized the Excelsior Refit (like how the Odyssey Trivailized the Galaxy Refit). And I'm pretty sure Excelsior captains wouldn't be too happy their ship is now obsolete and $20 went down the drain.
However at the same time, we did want more oomph with our firepower. It's just Cryptic took a little too far and really killed the tankability by getting rid of some good engineering slots. Which is ironic since we had Devs actually said "Enterprises were pure cruisers", which in STO at T5 means 1 Commander and 1 LTC Engineering slot.
So be interesting what they say about this. Hopefully one of the Podcasts asks this so we get some ideas behind their thoughts on this issue.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Assault_Cruiser_Refit
I honestly don't know what to think of the setup for it.
Yes, speak for yourself. I disagree with your trivializing comment. Who cares if two ships have same layouts. Its 2409+, I shouldnt have to fly a Kirk era Excelsior to get that type of layout. All I want is a minimum Lt Cmdr Tac slot for Torp High Yield III. Take away the Ensign tac if you want for it. Then if they want to add a Torp 180 firing arc, giggidy giggidy giggidy!
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They should have that design plus the 2409/25th century.
well the tos connie is an, forgive me for saying this, an older ship over 100+ years compared to the sovereign class which is what 40+ years from nemesis.
I wanted a LTC Tactical slot for the Sovereign too, but not at the expense of losing a LTC Engineering slot for an Engineering Ensign slot and a LT Universal slot (which very likely would go to a LT Sci BO).
The way Cryptic is shoehorning new ships in, they really should go back and completely redo the Ship Tier system.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Actually one of the first things pointed out when people started freaking out about how big the Kelvin was is that this was never actually said about the Constitution-class in TOS.
Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit (Sovereign, Majestic, Noble)
Lt. Cmdr. Tactical
Lt. Tactical
Commander Engineering
Ensign Engineering
Lt. Universal
Hull: 42,900
Fore/Aft: 4/4
Turn Rate: 7
Shield Modifier: 1.1
Device Slots: 4
Console Slots:
4x Engineering
4x Tactical
2x Science
*+10 Weapon Power
*+5 Shield Power
*+5 Auxiliary Power
Kost: 20,000 Fleet Credits - 1 unknown Resource
Starbase Military Tier 5 Shipyard
And thats why every soverigen pilot went nuts about the fleet varient. it had a lovely balance of firepower and tanking before. But people where looking for that littile bit more edge from a refit.
Why do you think people where suggesting high arc quantum torp launchers so much.
The best layout suggestion i saw was to go with a variant on the carrier layout and go:
Lt Cmdr Tac
Lt Cmd Eng
Cmdr Eng
Lt Sci
With the same 4/4/2 console layout, and same power layout, (inspired idea IMHO).
TBH the suggested layout would have been a tad better if they'd moved the engsin to science.
Cmdr Eng + Lt Eng is okaish albiet a tad too far the other way for me. But the engsin eng really kills it as egsin eng is the most usless engsin slot type IMHO.
The Excel-R already has pretty much that same layout in spirit. It also has a superior turn rate, which is basically all that matters when it comes to making a non-beam cruiser work. When you are using beams, your Tac stations really don't matter that much and this is why people begging for a "Tactical Sovereign" are never going to get what they think they want. The game just doesn't work that way.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Based on blog #14, the answer to the topic question is no. I would say it had something to do with the pending C-Store variant that others have already mentioned.
I like what they have done with the boff layout.
also they have not bumped up the turn rate.
Mirror Sovereign is a Star Cruiser and Mirror Emissary is an Assault Cruiser.
You clearly don't know much about beams then.
When using BFAW or BO the higher level vershions display a MARKED improvment over the lesser vershions in terms of per shot damage. In fact BFAW is better per shot than the base beams. Like CSV susing it actually improves your DPS even in a single target situation. It also recycles faster letting you fire more volleys in the same time period. The result is pretty marked.
As a result running the higher level vershions really starts to stack up in damage terms.
There's also the fact that the new STF's provide plenty of targets of opportunity making Torp abilities more useful. And then there's APO1, or even people runnig level 3 target subsystems abilities.
Lastly, if you can't see the differance between the Excelsior and that combination your blind or dumb.
An Extra Lt Cmdr slot is incrediblly useful for a tank. You can run 2 copies of 2 diffrent Emercancy power abilities, and, AtSIF and another Lt Cmdr or Lt ability, (depending on if you bring 2 level 3 EPtX or 1), plus the usual Cmdr Ability. The same build with the excelsior has to fall back to 3 level 1 Emergancy to X abilities and 1 level 2 vershion, and to fit AtSIF in your forced to sacrafice eitheir the Commander or Lt Cmdr slot.
The differance is very marked in terms of the builds you can put together.
My own sovergien right now runs:
EPtW1 x 2
EPtS2 x 2
AtSIF2
ES2
ES3
The closest i cna come on the excelsior is:
EPtW1 x2
EPtS1
EPtS2
AtSIF2
ES3
With EPtS2 and AtSIF2 being swapable for EPtS3 AtSIF1
Eithier way one of your EPtS abilities ends up infiriour and you can only bring 1 ES. Thats a marked differance in reality. Especially the EPtS1 you have to bring as that drasticlly raises your base sheild power setting required for 125. Or lowers the maximum if settling for a lower value.
It's even bigger an effect for hull tanks who want to be running AtSIF 3 and 2 copies of the higest level engeneeiring team possibble. Double copies of EPtW1 is a pretty staple element. With the Excelsior, unless you run only Engeneeiring team 1 you end up with a spare engsin level ability you can't use and have to run Eng team 2 and Eng team 3 instead of Eng Team 3 x 2. And i'm sure there are crowd control and debuff builds used by a small minority that stack Aceton Beam and Warp Plasma together or in multipules that would feel the loss of a second Lt Cmdr slot. Though i doubt they're that effective myself.
Most good fed cruiser builds rely on that double Lt Cmdr slot setup to be effective.