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Solution to the fleet contribution problem!
j4ck5p4rr0w
Member Posts: 103 Arc User
The problem with the current fleet project set up on Tribble is that it is basically first come first serve, and once project requirements are filled no one else can contribute to them. An easy solution would be to just create a project pool that everyone can contribute to any time they want, and then when the fleet leaders start a new project they can get resources from that pool.
Post edited by j4ck5p4rr0w on
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If the Leaders are the only one putting the resourses into the projects?
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Everyone who contributes to the pool could get credits.
The.Grand.Nagus
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And why would they do that? They'd lose 80% of their members in a week and then they are left to built them on their own. You didn't lose anything, they did. The hypotethical problems people make up all day just so they can hop on the bandwagon and bash cryptic... >_>
That sounds like an awful lot of Re-Programing They'd have to do.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Really? I'm not a programmer, nor am I familiar with their specific programs, so I'm not sure how much programming this suggested change would require. Do you have some inside info?
The.Grand.Nagus
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OK..hang on there a moment skippy...
First off, I wasn't bashing Cryptic in any way, shape or form...
(thanks for insulting me in a round-about-way though)
Secondly, I was asking a legitimate question about how the OP's suggestion would solve the problem, since he/she didn't say how folks donating would acquire the Fleet Points.
T.G.N. suggested an answer, but that way would seem like a whole lot of Re-programing for Cryptic, to me.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Nope...,
But it's taken Them several months to get it to this point, as it is...
Using a bit of common sense, I doubt that Re-Programing it, would be any less difficult or less time consuming.
Do you have any inside-info that would indicate that it Wouldn't take quite some time to do??
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
OK.. I can see where the fact that I didn't Quote the OP could lead to that conclusion...
But one might want to ease up a bit on the Hate the Haters mentality...
It's a short-cut to the Dark Side.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
on tribble it does not matter and its just throw everything including the kitchen sink into the projects. on holodeck people might be a little less happy to do so, especially if they dont need the credits.
a pool to draw from sounds complicated. which resources get picked first? if i had 100 million dilithium first do i always get my dilithium picked for the next 6 months? if so, then im still first come first served. what if someone adds tons of resources but they are hardly ever picked because the right project is not picked? what if i get kicked from the fleet. do my resources come back or have i lost them. how do i get them back if im at my inventory/doff limit?
the current system is not great but im not sure the pool idea is any better. in theory it sounds fine but i question the practicality.
my personal solution was to have the timer start at 50% at double the time. the more people add the faster the time goes down. therefore people dont have to add everything to get it started. it might encourage people not to fill it up as fast an give other people a chance to contribute a bit later. it would help smaller fleets who cant meet the resources required (but it does make production much longer) and it gives people a bit more of a choice in how they construct things (time v resources used).
I never made *any* claims regarding the length of time it would take. If you think I did you must be confusing my post with someone else. I simply questioned the basis of your suggestion that it *would* take some significant amount of time. Regarding how long it has taken thus far, I also do not know how much of that time has been strictly programming the specific system we are talking about vs all of the other features of S6(starbase missions, tholian missions, no-win mission, fleet store ships, etc). However it sounds as if you are suggesting that the amount of time S6 has taken is largely because of this specific system, so do you have any source for that suggestion?
The.Grand.Nagus
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Let's see, without inside information, the minimum requirements would likely be:
1. A new UI page for contribution. Due to the huge number of different types of inputs the system takes, it would be at least as complex as the existing contributions page (though without needing the progression information listed).
2. Overhaul to the management UI, could be fairly minor depending on how it's chosen to be done
3. A new ground-up abstract data type for storage. This data type will have to track every type of input instead of only the 4-8 that individual projects take, and will need to have higher capacities than any of the individual projects.
3.b. It will also need limits, which will mean a new round of data mining to set those limits in a way that's not restrictive but also not open to abuse (generation of massive amounts of fleet credits by contributing materials that are in great abundance while critically needed materials are in shortage) and a likely balance pass as the existing contributions got during testing.
1 is the biggest development timesink, but 3.b. puts much of the system back at an earlier design stage, because it creates a fundamental problem. A number of the inputs for the system are in massive excess: Expertise, EC and related items, even dilithium for fleets full of long term players or with networks of alts feeding their mains. The system needs to be designed in such a way that people can't generate huge sums of fleet credit by not actually helping the system progress. It's a balance/design challenge that this system can quietly ignore, but which a stockpile system needs to address somehow.
Which is why I mentioned the special project change. I'd take it further, and actually give fleets 2-3 slots to run those in. They're a good middle ground - constant resource burning assignments that really only exist to generate fleet credits - they give no provisions and only a trickle of FXP. They make an almost-always-open contribution pit while still letting the system quietly ignore the resource imbalance.
Projects that only become available after certain other projects are completed...
Projects that would give members a chance to acquire Fleet Points but not advance the over-all Starbase tier.
(to keep the same length of time that Cryptic wishes us to get to top Tier levels)
These Projects should be ones that create Fleet Ships and Fleet Items though...
Things that have already been unlocked along the way to Tier Five.
This would incentivize members who already have the items to only put their commodities into Fleet Tier Advancement Projects (though if they wish they could donate) and thus give folks who don't have the Special Fleet Items a chance not only to gain Fleet Points but also the Special Fleet Items.
Cryptic should add two of these Extra Project Slots to each Project Category (MIL/ENG/SCI)...
This would be most advantageous for Large Fleets as Fleet Leaders can initiate these as side projects to give more members a chance to acquire special Fleet items AND more members a chance at getting Fleet Points.
There will always be members that will over-donate to try to amass Fleet Points... but if they do, this will deplete their stocks with no advantage for them, as they wouldn't be able to acquire the bound fleet items in these special projects.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
The only "Claim" I apparently made, according to you anyway...
Is that based on how long it has taken to get the Starbase System this far, it might take an additional unspecified length of time to re-program in the OP's solution...
I was simply applying a bit of common sense based loosely on the facts that are known, to reach a uneducated guess.
My question to you, was also simply in reply to your suggestion that perhaps I was talking-out-of-my-TRIBBLE...
So be it...
If you wish to continue to intertwine my posts into your devious mission of convoluted Ferengi hi-jinks, You'll have to continue that on yer own...
As I haven't got anything really invested in this conversation other than a bit of speculation and I'm not really in the mood to verbally spar with you beyond this post.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Actually, it was "several months":
But if you want to back away from that and just say "unspecified" now, thats fine.
The.Grand.Nagus
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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We have been actively monitoring the contribution amounts by fleet members. Keep in mind that the Cryptic_Tribble fleet is a maxed out Fleet and not the norm when compared to the average fleet size. There are less than 1000 active Fleets with more than 25 members whereas there are 7000+ active fleets with less than 25 members. (active meaning the fleet members are actively playing the game)
That said, we do recognize that large fleets will run into contribution dogpiling early on in the system and are engineering slight additions and changes to special projects in order to compensate.
We will continue to monitor the contribution amounts and make adjustments as necessary. For now we feel comfortable launching as it is in today's Tribble build as we feel it is going to be slightly different on Holodeck and want to see how it goes when everyone is spending their real assets.
heh...
Isn't it just a fabulous, fantastic, and fun waste of time, to twist peoples words to fit that devious mind of yours...
As I said above...Yer on yer own now Sweety.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Where the Hell did You come from and what are you doing interrupting T.G.N.'s fun??? :P
<chuckle>
Thanks for the heads-up/up-date though.
Wait.... ?... Does this mean that Thursday IS the Launch Date for Season SIx????????
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This is a quality post; I am approve.
The.Grand.Nagus
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
Is this a confirmations fromt he head dev that season 6 is launching tommorrow?
...or just another convoluted response that gives Everything AND Nothing, away...
:eek:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This must be in regards to the Federation Cryptic Tribble fleet... I do not think any devs have bothered with the Klingon one since the day it was founded... Last time I checked it was still Tier 0.
Oh lordy... Lets not turn down that road in this thread....
Please.... ? ....
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Have you members show some restraint and share opportunities with each other...problem solved.
Actually, here is the real solution:
The.Grand.Nagus
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I am obviously only pointing out facts as the KDF Kryptic Klingons the KDF side has 6 leadership members which are mostly devs. Four of which have not logged in since June 22nd which has been 19 days a little under 3 weeks. There are 2 however who logged in 4 days ago. Although I understand not everyone has KDF toons and it may not concern you if you do not have them but there are those of us who do. Regardless of what faction though each faction should be given the same priority to fix any bugs or glitches before this goes live. So I say all of this in a productive fashion just as a reminder or suggestion that things not be overlooked or else it will just intensify my view that there is a serious bias between the two factions.
When you talk "members", do you mean actual members, or characters? Because there's a big difference between a fleet of 50 people, and a fleet of 10 people with 5 alts each - even though they both have 50 characters on the roster.
But isn't the fleet system mostly the same for both factions? The actual mechanics will be tested just fine in one faction only.
Heh...
How much "More Intense" will it need to get?
It's pretty obvious even to me (I have only one Klingon toon I play infrequently) that the bias exists...
I'm not sure at this point there's a need to search further for an intensification of ones Frustration and Ire.
That too, leads only to the Dark Side.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I am sorry that I cannot help you with that. However, I do deal in factual information if that pleases you.