I am sorry that I cannot help you with that. However, I do deal in factual information if that pleases you.
Since my question was pretty much rhetorical...
There's no need to be apologetic.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
We have been actively monitoring the contribution amounts by fleet members. Keep in mind that the Cryptic_Tribble fleet is a maxed out Fleet and not the norm when compared to the average fleet size. There are less than 1000 active Fleets with more than 25 members whereas there are 7000+ active fleets with less than 25 members. (active meaning the fleet members are actively playing the game)
That said, we do recognize that large fleets will run into contribution dogpiling early on in the system and are engineering slight additions and changes to special projects in order to compensate.
We will continue to monitor the contribution amounts and make adjustments as necessary. For now we feel comfortable launching as it is in today's Tribble build as we feel it is going to be slightly different on Holodeck and want to see how it goes when everyone is spending their real assets.
Sorry but all you are doing as it currently stands is simply promoting elitism within the fleets and penalising those who A. Don't spend all their game time grinding their preverbials off and B. Those who maybe can't get on as often as they would like, and when they do finally get a chance to get on can't contribute because the supermen have beaten them all to it...
Not well thought out and obviously the feedback left in the other threads was ignored regarding this issue as usual...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
I've said this before but the only thing Cryptic needs to do to make the entire problem vanish is to give out "Fleet Credits" simply for contributing resources to the fleet bank, regardless of whether they're being used for a project or not. The fleet leader can then put the resources wherever he or the fleet deems necessary.
I've said this before but the only thing Cryptic needs to do to make the entire problem vanish is to give out "Fleet Credits" simply for contributing resources to the fleet bank, regardless of whether they're being used for a project or not. The fleet leader can then put the resources wherever he or the fleet deems necessary.
It's really not that hard.
Actually, it is that hard. First, the day they implemented what you are suggesting would be the day you would go to the Fleet bank to contrbute something only to find every slot in the bank filled with the cheapest resource that projects use, filled by the very same people who would do the very thing you are concerned about. Even if they got kicked out of the Fleet for doing so, they would have been rewarded with millions and millions of Fleet credits that go with them.
As it now stands, the only thing you get credit for is what the project actually uses. The fleet bank doesn't care what goes into it. Therefore, people would be getting fleet credits for stuff that may never be used. If it is never used, why should they be rewarded for it?
Essentially, all you have proposed is trade a way for something that could be abused, one which actually can be controlled (see Recksracer's comment below) for one that introduces even greater potential for abuse and is much harder to control.
Sorry but all you are doing as it currently stands is simply promoting elitism within the fleets and penalising those who A. Don't spend all their game time grinding their preverbials off and B. Those who maybe can't get on as often as they would like, and when they do finally get a chance to get on can't contribute because the supermen have beaten them all to it...
Not well thought out and obviously the feedback left in the other threads was ignored regarding this issue as usual...
In other words, you think that someone who doesn't choose to spend time gathering the resources needed for the project should reap the same reward as those who actually do? Likewise, you think that the entire fleet should be held back because people may only login once or twice a week?
There are ways to ensure that your fleet is allowing people to contribute equally, but, frankly, I see much more elitism in your complaint than in what you are suggesting could happen.
Have you members show some restraint and share opportunities with each other...problem solved.
This is the truth. Fleet leaders can monitor who is contributing what. They can shut down the ability to contribute if people are abusing the rules so that they can get the point across. They can kick people who do not comply with the rules. And if you are in a Fleet that doesn't stop people from abusing the system, the problem isn't the system. It is in your choice to stay with such a fleet.
Honestly, all this panic over the way the system is designed is unwarranted, and many "solutions" are not solutions because they remove whatever limits the system imposes now making the potential for abuse far worse. If someone abuses the contribution system, Fleet leadership can deal with it. If they won't, then you are in the wrong fleet.
If people are really that concerned, then the only real solution is to put diminishing returns on some of the contribution categories. For instance, if the project requires 3000 Provisions, the first 100 give full credit, the next 100 gives three-quarters credit, and so on till you get to the point you can still contribute to that category, but you are not getting more fleet credits for it. That limit could reset in an hour or a day, or whatever time period is appropriate. That way, people are discouraged from filling up a category, but the fleet can still progress if they want.
I don't understand all the fuss about contribution mechanics. Yes, additional controls for fleet leaders would be nice, but they aren't essential. If you're in a good fleet, people will work together to make sure everyone gets a chance to contribute, and the fleet leaders will oversee the process to make sure nobody is being left out. If a few members of the fleet are hogging all the contribution opportunities and the fleet leaders are doing nothing about it, perhaps you should find a better fleet.
I don't understand all the fuss about contribution mechanics. Yes, additional controls for fleet leaders would be nice, but they aren't essential. If you're in a good fleet, people will work together to make sure everyone gets a chance to contribute, and the fleet leaders will oversee the process to make sure nobody is being left out. If a few members of the fleet are hogging all the contribution opportunities and the fleet leaders are doing nothing about it, perhaps you should find a better fleet.
Yeah... if you don't like a Fleet find a nicer one. Fleets are going to learn how to be nice or all their members are going to leave. and then they aren't going to get that shiny starbase as fast....
I've said this before but the only thing Cryptic needs to do to make the entire problem vanish is to give out "Fleet Credits" simply for contributing resources to the fleet bank, regardless of whether they're being used for a project or not. The fleet leader can then put the resources wherever he or the fleet deems necessary.
It's really not that hard.
Another issue with that is time gating of fleet credits. Your way would mean people could just make random fleets just to dump stuff in and grab the fleet credits from whilst their main fleet base's projects tick over.
Would be able to easily farm fleet credits. Breaks the system.
Another issue with that is time gating of fleet credits. Your way would mean people could just make random fleets just to dump stuff in and grab the fleet credits from whilst their main fleet base's projects tick over.
Would be able to easily farm fleet credits. Breaks the system.
Fleet credits won't be time gated (i.e. special projects only have a 30 minute timer).
If you meant fleet marks instead, while that as a reward for the Tholian ground invasion is time gated, there are numerous PvE events that will be available 24/7 that reward fleet marks. I'd still like confirmation on the duty officer assignments rewarding Fleet Marks after 150k CXP that Heretic discussed last month...
We have been actively monitoring the contribution amounts by fleet members. Keep in mind that the Cryptic_Tribble fleet is a maxed out Fleet and not the norm when compared to the average fleet size. There are less than 1000 active Fleets with more than 25 members whereas there are 7000+ active fleets with less than 25 members. (active meaning the fleet members are actively playing the game)
That said, we do recognize that large fleets will run into contribution dogpiling early on in the system and are engineering slight additions and changes to special projects in order to compensate.
We will continue to monitor the contribution amounts and make adjustments as necessary. For now we feel comfortable launching as it is in today's Tribble build as we feel it is going to be slightly different on Holodeck and want to see how it goes when everyone is spending their real assets.
Hey Dan, I finally logged in and guess what? All of the donations for my fleet projects are already full. If it happened this quick on a day with as much down time and log in problems as there have been today then you obviously didnt quite get it right. Of course, thats what happens when you dont listen to what people tell you on Tribble
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
Hey Dan, I finally logged in and guess what? All of the donations for my fleet projects are already full. If it happened this quick on a day with as much down time and log in problems as there have been today then you obviously didnt quite get it right. Of course, thats what happens when you dont listen to what people tell you on Tribble
Why would they start listening now when they almost never have before?
My fleet still has one more of the original projects to fill and the second special project to fill. Larger fleets will go through it quickly. Smaller fleets will not.
We had one guy donate almost all of the Dilithium required to open our windows. But that was one large deposit of dilithium he'd been saving more months. In the early going, we will run into this issue only because everyone does have resources out the wahzoo. As we go along, a lot of these resources should start being burned through.
You are looking at 850,000 FXP in order to have a complete base. People will have plenty opportunity to spend.
Side note: In my fleet, we took it a step further. No one at fleet rank 1 can donate. We want to leave it open for the regular fleet players and not risk people coming in, filling up everything, taking all those fleet credits, and then leaving.
"If you have never used Cello, I'm not interested in your browser opinion."
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
...Side note: In my fleet, we took it a step further. No one at fleet rank 1 can donate. We want to leave it open for the regular fleet players and not risk people coming in, filling up everything, taking all those fleet credits, and then leaving.
Yours is not the only fleet who has adopted this, or a similar, approach. I have been speaking with many different fleets since the tribble release, to see how such arrangements were being considered. I actually spoke to one fleet who restrict almost all members; their policy being one of donation to higher ups to fill out projects. Which I found a little bizarre. But whatever floats their boat ofc.
And whoever decided that donating data samples and other things 1 at a time was a good idea when a project takes hundreds or thousands to start needs to drug out into the street and shot.
And whoever decided that donating data samples and other things 1 at a time was a good idea when a project takes hundreds or thousands to start needs to drug out into the street and shot.
Yes, indeed. That was one part of the contribution UI that really made me cringe. I'd like to see the list of data sample types presented with numbers showing the quantity of each I actually have (as they do when stacked in inventory, etc.) and then be able to select how many of each type I wish to contribute, then *click* and it's done.
The only reason I can see for making it the way it is, is perhaps they felt if everyone has to add one at a time, it will give more people a chance to contribute, rather than one person dumping and closing off the category before anyone else has a chance. If this is the case, and it's felt that it's important enough that they don't want to allow for mass contributions, I would at least ask this: Please do still have the UI show the quantity of each kind of sample we have available. Please also let us click to contribute a sample, and keep the sample window open so that we can then click another one a moment later, without having to keep clicking to open the sample contribution window over and over each time.
And whoever decided that donating data samples and other things 1 at a time was a good idea when a project takes hundreds or thousands to start needs to drug out into the street and shot.
??? The only thing I had to donate one at a time was the DOffs. Everything else contained a slider.
I really wish there was a way to limit contributions by percentage. For example, Ranks 2-4 could only donate 25% of a project, Ranks 4-6 50%, and Fleet Founders 100%. It'd be a lot easier.
"If you have never used Cello, I'm not interested in your browser opinion."
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
In the end, the fleets are going to need to take responsibility on this one.
In the 12th we've adopted a 10% rule. You can only contribute up to 10% of the total resource needed, and you can only contribute to one resource per project. I like the rule, and believe it will need some tweaking once we get a feel on how many in the fleet are actively contributing.
I would like to see some sort of limiter setting that the fleet leaders could set just to prevent someone from "accidentally" contributing more than his or her share.
Comments
Since my question was pretty much rhetorical...
There's no need to be apologetic.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Sorry but all you are doing as it currently stands is simply promoting elitism within the fleets and penalising those who A. Don't spend all their game time grinding their preverbials off and B. Those who maybe can't get on as often as they would like, and when they do finally get a chance to get on can't contribute because the supermen have beaten them all to it...
Not well thought out and obviously the feedback left in the other threads was ignored regarding this issue as usual...
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
It's really not that hard.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Actually, it is that hard. First, the day they implemented what you are suggesting would be the day you would go to the Fleet bank to contrbute something only to find every slot in the bank filled with the cheapest resource that projects use, filled by the very same people who would do the very thing you are concerned about. Even if they got kicked out of the Fleet for doing so, they would have been rewarded with millions and millions of Fleet credits that go with them.
As it now stands, the only thing you get credit for is what the project actually uses. The fleet bank doesn't care what goes into it. Therefore, people would be getting fleet credits for stuff that may never be used. If it is never used, why should they be rewarded for it?
Essentially, all you have proposed is trade a way for something that could be abused, one which actually can be controlled (see Recksracer's comment below) for one that introduces even greater potential for abuse and is much harder to control.
So, yes, it is that hard.
In other words, you think that someone who doesn't choose to spend time gathering the resources needed for the project should reap the same reward as those who actually do? Likewise, you think that the entire fleet should be held back because people may only login once or twice a week?
There are ways to ensure that your fleet is allowing people to contribute equally, but, frankly, I see much more elitism in your complaint than in what you are suggesting could happen.
This is the truth. Fleet leaders can monitor who is contributing what. They can shut down the ability to contribute if people are abusing the rules so that they can get the point across. They can kick people who do not comply with the rules. And if you are in a Fleet that doesn't stop people from abusing the system, the problem isn't the system. It is in your choice to stay with such a fleet.
Honestly, all this panic over the way the system is designed is unwarranted, and many "solutions" are not solutions because they remove whatever limits the system imposes now making the potential for abuse far worse. If someone abuses the contribution system, Fleet leadership can deal with it. If they won't, then you are in the wrong fleet.
If people are really that concerned, then the only real solution is to put diminishing returns on some of the contribution categories. For instance, if the project requires 3000 Provisions, the first 100 give full credit, the next 100 gives three-quarters credit, and so on till you get to the point you can still contribute to that category, but you are not getting more fleet credits for it. That limit could reset in an hour or a day, or whatever time period is appropriate. That way, people are discouraged from filling up a category, but the fleet can still progress if they want.
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Yeah... if you don't like a Fleet find a nicer one. Fleets are going to learn how to be nice or all their members are going to leave. and then they aren't going to get that shiny starbase as fast....
Another issue with that is time gating of fleet credits. Your way would mean people could just make random fleets just to dump stuff in and grab the fleet credits from whilst their main fleet base's projects tick over.
Would be able to easily farm fleet credits. Breaks the system.
Fleet credits won't be time gated (i.e. special projects only have a 30 minute timer).
If you meant fleet marks instead, while that as a reward for the Tholian ground invasion is time gated, there are numerous PvE events that will be available 24/7 that reward fleet marks. I'd still like confirmation on the duty officer assignments rewarding Fleet Marks after 150k CXP that Heretic discussed last month...
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Hey Dan, I finally logged in and guess what? All of the donations for my fleet projects are already full. If it happened this quick on a day with as much down time and log in problems as there have been today then you obviously didnt quite get it right. Of course, thats what happens when you dont listen to what people tell you on Tribble
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
Why would they start listening now when they almost never have before?
Valid point.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
We had one guy donate almost all of the Dilithium required to open our windows. But that was one large deposit of dilithium he'd been saving more months. In the early going, we will run into this issue only because everyone does have resources out the wahzoo. As we go along, a lot of these resources should start being burned through.
You are looking at 850,000 FXP in order to have a complete base. People will have plenty opportunity to spend.
Side note: In my fleet, we took it a step further. No one at fleet rank 1 can donate. We want to leave it open for the regular fleet players and not risk people coming in, filling up everything, taking all those fleet credits, and then leaving.
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
Yours is not the only fleet who has adopted this, or a similar, approach. I have been speaking with many different fleets since the tribble release, to see how such arrangements were being considered. I actually spoke to one fleet who restrict almost all members; their policy being one of donation to higher ups to fill out projects. Which I found a little bizarre. But whatever floats their boat ofc.
Yes, indeed. That was one part of the contribution UI that really made me cringe. I'd like to see the list of data sample types presented with numbers showing the quantity of each I actually have (as they do when stacked in inventory, etc.) and then be able to select how many of each type I wish to contribute, then *click* and it's done.
The only reason I can see for making it the way it is, is perhaps they felt if everyone has to add one at a time, it will give more people a chance to contribute, rather than one person dumping and closing off the category before anyone else has a chance. If this is the case, and it's felt that it's important enough that they don't want to allow for mass contributions, I would at least ask this: Please do still have the UI show the quantity of each kind of sample we have available. Please also let us click to contribute a sample, and keep the sample window open so that we can then click another one a moment later, without having to keep clicking to open the sample contribution window over and over each time.
??? The only thing I had to donate one at a time was the DOffs. Everything else contained a slider.
I really wish there was a way to limit contributions by percentage. For example, Ranks 2-4 could only donate 25% of a project, Ranks 4-6 50%, and Fleet Founders 100%. It'd be a lot easier.
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
In the 12th we've adopted a 10% rule. You can only contribute up to 10% of the total resource needed, and you can only contribute to one resource per project. I like the rule, and believe it will need some tweaking once we get a feel on how many in the fleet are actively contributing.
I would like to see some sort of limiter setting that the fleet leaders could set just to prevent someone from "accidentally" contributing more than his or her share.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Where was the slider? When I opened a data sample or particle trace, the box only had the buttons to click on the type, and the ok & cancel buttons.