Yes, but that is a Fleet version of the Tactical Escort Retrofit Defiant/Sao Paulo, not the Armitage.
That wasnt my point... my post was replying to someone who had said that an extra tactical console would be overpowered... when the Fleet Defiant has 5 tactical consoles...
I agree it would be a bit silly if people could get acces to a free, better version of the Armitage, even if it's 7 months later. Because let's face it, we were paying either for the added hangar, or the ability to use a tier 5 Akira...but not for the console. Makes you wonder if the console was just added so they could say: "Well, your 'advangate' is the console that came with it!". It just feels a bit...wrong. On one hand, I'm happy I will be able to continue to pilot my favorite ship, but on the other hand, it feels weird that less than a month after buying it, we get the message it'll be available for free to everyone.
Not that I'm interested in denying people anything, on the contrary. It's just another one of those slaps in the face, like when you buy a ship only to have a discount period to go live the day after you did, with no pre-warning or anything whatsoever. Cryptic's not required to be decent about these things, but it would be nice...for a change I fear I must add.
Technically the enterprise d and e had three commanders. Riker, Crusher, and Troi but what the OP is proposing is way beyond over powered. The Armitage is fine how it is, it doesn't need more hangers or insane BO builds.
I can't think of the name of the episode, but the Enterprise D hit a Quantum Strand and nearly blew up, of the few officers on the Bridge Troi had the highest rank being the equivalent of a Lt.Com not a Commander. Not sure what Crushers rank was but I would assume that it was also a Lt.Com Rank Equivalent. But due to the nature of the roll in certain circumstances she could outrank both Picard and Riker.
One of the commanders could be called a CAG or Carrier Air/Space Group Commander.
In charge of Carrier Group Operations as a new BOFF for certain starships in STO
A Commander by any name still grants an extra L4 BOFF skill, I don't see them adding it to the game anytime soon. People have been asking for this for two years I sincerely doubt it will happen.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I agree it would be a bit silly if people could get acces to a free, better version of the Armitage, even if it's 7 months later.
Theres nothing silly about it.
Its about time and effort vs instant gratification.
Before PWE took over thats pretty much how it worked with most C-Store ships.
You could either buy it off the C-Store for instant gratification and account wide unlocks, or you could grind Emblems for a single ship on a single character.
Now granted, back then it all came down to the same ships, no better version, but the principle still applies.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
People who spent $20 on a ship only to have them then give the ship away for free is very frustrating. If you want to create a fleet version fine but make in such way that people who already purchased the ship get a requisition for it so they can play with it the moment it goes live. That's my two cents.
People who spent $20 on a ship only to have them then give the ship away for free is very frustrating. If you want to create a fleet version fine but make in such way that people who already purchased the ship get a requisition for it so they can play with it the moment it goes live. That's my two cents.
It isn't free, but I agree.
It costs 200,000 Fleet Credits (PvE for it), then 4 tokens that you need to purchase from the CStore.
They're just making you pay $20+ for an upgrade of what you already paid $20 for.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
I think the carrier function should remain for those that have bought the Armitage, it is after all what most of us have bought the ship for.
First we must pay for the carrier function and now it can be gained free of charge?! An outrage!
What could be done is having a Fleet Heavy Escort without carrier ability for everyone and then grant those that bought an Armitage the carrier ability.
The same could be said forall other ships with a special ability.
Furthermore I'd like to ask why are all those old ships still in service? All ships should have a post 2409 design regarding the retrofits and fleet retrofits. I mean starfleet is at war so its ship yards should be building non stop and old ships should not be built anymore because they are not equal to the new ships anymore.
First of, it is not "free." If someone gets one of these ships, it is because they earned the ship in game. And just because the Armitage can be bought by spending money for C-Points/Zen does not mean that someone cannot likewise earn Dilithium in game and buy it. So even now, the Armitage can be obtained "free of charge" by your own standards. I own the Armitage, but I what I find outrageous is your notion that, just because money can be spent for it, it should be better than anything someone can actually earn by just playing the game. No game should be pay to win, so no paid item or capability should be unavailable unless you pay real money for it. If this game worked that way, I would not play it.
That aside, you seem to be having a problem with the meaning of the term "refit" and "retrofit." "Refit" and "Retrofit" are both terms to describe the upgrading of systems on an existing ship. In other words, you are arguing against your own point. It is far easier, faster, and cheaper to take an existing ship and upgrade its systems and improve its capabilities than it is to build a new one from the keel up. This is especially true in a war. You don't discard your current fleet and start building all brand new ships. You also don't leave your existing less-capable ships to be fodder for the enemy while you build a new fleet from scratch. You take your existing fleet and upgrade their capabilities, adding new ships as you can afford to and as time permits.
Your pay to win argument is nonsense because you can still win by getting any other escort. The point of paying is the uniqueness factor which is all gone now that its going to be made available to everyone who didn't dish out 20 to get it. Also I agree with your upgrade argument in so far as you had the ship to begin with so you can upgrade it. As far as earning it by playing sto non stop to grind that is your porogative. I do not have that kind of time and wanted something different and cryptic comes around and gives it away is not respectful of its customer base who are paying so you can play for free. Season 6 has been brought to you by the paying customers so some deference and respect should be paid in turn to those that make the game possible, the people who pay and expect service not p2w as you suggest but some respect in the form of a staggered release, or free upgrade to those who already bought. And not the 7 month hard cap either because that just restricts everyone.
No, the whole point is that they make a shiny new ship, which people will gladly pay for...and then, out of the blue, only a short while after many bought it, anounce that a better version of it will come out for free. But, get this, those that bought the ship will have todo the same gridn just to keep their ship playable.
So basically, the reward their customers with twice the work, while those that didn't buy it only have to grind for it once.
That's a slap in the face no matter how you try to justify it, but then again, hardly a surprise given their current track record.
First of, it is not "free." If someone gets one of these ships, it is because they earned the ship in game. And just because the Armitage can be bought by spending money for C-Points/Zen does not mean that someone cannot likewise earn Dilithium in game and buy it. So even now, the Armitage can be obtained "free of charge" by your own standards. I own the Armitage, but I what I find outrageous is your notion that, just because money can be spent for it, it should be better than anything someone can actually earn by just playing the game. No game should be pay to win, so no paid item or capability should be unavailable unless you pay real money for it. If this game worked that way, I would not play it.
That aside, you seem to be having a problem with the meaning of the term "refit" and "retrofit." "Refit" and "Retrofit" are both terms to describe the upgrading of systems on an existing ship. In other words, you are arguing against your own point. It is far easier, faster, and cheaper to take an existing ship and upgrade its systems and improve its capabilities than it is to build a new one from the keel up. This is especially true in a war. You don't discard your current fleet and start building all brand new ships. You also don't leave your existing less-capable ships to be fodder for the enemy while you build a new fleet from scratch. You take your existing fleet and upgrade their capabilities, adding new ships as you can afford to and as time permits.
You sir, need to take a look at ST canon, in ST canon the Refit versions of a ship are a completely new ship that the older versions still in service can and will be turned into. I just think it is strange that when the Thunderchild and the Armitage, both of a clearly newer and more advanced dsesign are not used in refitting the old ships. Why take the time to refit a ship if not all of the advancements are put into it? To me that seems silly.
Also during the Dominion war it is canon that Utopia Planetia never had its docks filled 100% and I refuse to believe that Utopia Planetia is the only shipyard in the UFP. In my opionion older designs thus should no longer be built but the existing verions of those ships should be refitted into the 2407 version. While this may take longer then a small refit, it will increase combat effectiveness and lifespan.
Anyhow, I just think this action of adding a fleet version of the HEC to be a complete and utter slap in the face of its loyal customers.
No, the whole point is that they make a shiny new ship, which people will gladly pay for...and then, out of the blue, only a short while after many bought it, anounce that a better version of it will come out for free. But, get this, those that bought the ship will have todo the same gridn just to keep their ship playable.
So basically, the reward their customers with twice the work, while those that didn't buy it only have to grind for it once.
That's a slap in the face no matter how you try to justify it, but then again, hardly a surprise given their current track record.
'twice the work'?
I highly doubt you went ahead and grinded ALL that dilithium to get the heavy escort carrier.
Besides, the sheer amount of fleet credits needed to get it will probably rival the dilithium method. Sure dilithium is harder to get and has a cap, but fleet credits don't exactly fall out of the sky like EC, it takes days and days of constant contribution to get anywhere near 20k FCs, and even that is nowhere near the amount needed.
Then add on to the fact that you need to UPGRADE YOUR STARBASE to even get the OPTION to buy it, which will take months in it's own right, and it seems pretty fair to me.
Anyhow, I just think this action of adding a fleet version of the HEC to be a complete and utter slap in the face of its loyal customers.
Uhm, no.
If anything, this is showing that cryptic doesn't care just about money, it's giving everyone a fair chance of getting it without even having to grind mindlessly for their store credits. This move shows me that they care about their ENTIRE consumer base, and not just the ones that buys every single one of their pretty expensive ships.
So instead you have to mine endlessly for a star base that probably is not yours to get FHEC? It seems they want us to play and do nothing else but don't worry once you got it they'll replace it with something on the z-store that's better. Does the idea of that not get to you at all.
That Armitage HEC cost 2000 c-points, which isn't exactly small money these days. Now I'm told it's going to be obsolete come season 6 and I have to grind for months to even have a hope of getting the version that's on par with the fleet ships. Also, depending on any future details, I may actually have to pay even MORE money for it.
The HEC came out just under a month ago, so cryptic must have known how quickly it was going to become outdated.
Meanwhile the Jem'Hadar attack ship, an already overpowered and tanky escort, gets a free buff to hull and shields and an extra console slot.
I have a suggestion for Cryptic - A month or so after season 6 comes out, adjust the HEC so it matches what the fleet HEC is currently on tribble (extra hull, shields and sci console slot). Meanwhile remove the fleet title from the HEC in the fleet store and that way we are all happy as they'll be the same, despite the fact people will be able to get the same ship for almost free, while we paid for it. I sure all of us who have *paid* for it expect this.
(Personally I'd be happy if you removed it's ability to equip danube runabouts)
I'm sorry if this sounds unkind, but this decision has made a lot of us angry.
since you have to spend C-points for the Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier Retrofit (best version) I think if you already own said C-store ship, you should just have to pay the Fleet credits for it. or get a really big discount on the token needed.
since you have to spend C-points for the Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier Retrofit (best version) I think if you already own said C-store ship, you should just have to pay the Fleet credits for it. or get a really big discount on the token needed.
Agreed, but unfortunately, "should" is not something Cryptic practices often.
They release the Armitage, then a few weeks later, its upgrade... both costing CPoints.
Ferengi, thy name is Stahl.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
well i fly an armitage and the stock model is a pretty well rounded escort . her abilty to field several different small classes of fighters and shuttles gives her lots of staying power and hopefully their will be new fighters and hangers to purchase in future but the fleet version while slightly more hull and maybe an extra console slot isnt going to be much diffrence except for the torpedo point defense system that only comes on cstore variant time that with a good quantum torpedo spread and cannons on volley fire you stand to do massive damage.
so buy it from cstore or grind in fleet for slightly better version without torpedo console your choice. i am probably not i will stick with what i already got she has lots of abilities especially with the danubes and their tractor beams
.but 1 or the other minus the 1 console are still going to be pretty enven so buy it or grind it your choice
I fly an Armitage that is equipped with the Assimilation module and Borg deflector dish and Mark XII Rare Reman Proto-type Shield and Impulse Engine. It is equipped with 3 MarkXII Dual Heavy Phaser Cannons, 3 Mark XI Phaser Turrets, Photon Point Defense System and a Plasma Torpedo. Its fighters are Advanced Peregrine Fighters and I have a Scorpion Fighter or Peregrine Fighter device.
All I can say about the ship is...It is one bad TRIBBLE little boat. I got console to boost the damage output of the phasers and the torpedoes. Got the console which adds resistance to all and to improve its shields (10,477 right now).
My hopes for the Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier. A Lt. Commander Universal station. another tactical console slot and another fighter hanger slot. Improve its shielding and hull points. I think it would be a well balanced ship. I would use the Universal Lt. Commander slot for either a Science officer of engineer, not another tactical officer. So to improve its recovery of hull and shields.
I highly doubt you went ahead and grinded ALL that dilithium to get the heavy escort carrier.
Besides, the sheer amount of fleet credits needed to get it will probably rival the dilithium method. Sure dilithium is harder to get and has a cap, but fleet credits don't exactly fall out of the sky like EC, it takes days and days of constant contribution to get anywhere near 20k FCs, and even that is nowhere near the amount needed.
Then add on to the fact that you need to UPGRADE YOUR STARBASE to even get the OPTION to buy it, which will take months in it's own right, and it seems pretty fair to me.
Uhm, no.
If anything, this is showing that cryptic doesn't care just about money, it's giving everyone a fair chance of getting it without even having to grind mindlessly for their store credits. This move shows me that they care about their ENTIRE consumer base, and not just the ones that buys every single one of their pretty expensive ships.
I have to disagree with you there. Cryptic has been slapping us in the face from the start. As a beta tester for STO I was sent an offer to buy the advanced collector's addition. I have the box right in front of me, "This collector's edition grants EXCLUSIVE access to the original Enterprise, as well as EXCLUSIVE access to classic show uniforms". Oxford's describes exclusive as : Excluding some or most, as from membership or participation. Well 2 months into the game the ship & uniforms become C-store items.. wait, what, so I payed for a special collector's edition, showed loyalty by purchasing it before it was even released, but now anyone with a credit card or paypal can buy what was supposed to be my reward for supporting the game before it was even launched. So (I lost the exact numbers from back then) I added it all up and I basically paid $25 Canadian more for a box with a hologram picture and a replica com badge pin. The person that bought a basic copy on release day then paid a small fee two months later to unlock those items sure didn't pay the $85 + tax I did... There were a lot of us both beta & non-beta players that felt really betrayed by that move. Then add to that Cryptic's infamous line "Nothing in the C-store will ever translate into an in-game advantage, all c-store items will strictly be for appearance". Can anyone say Galaxy X Dreadnought, with Cloak & Spinal Phaser. Yeah purely cosmetic, doesn't affect gameplay in the least. So finding out that just around the corner is a bigger, better, badder "fleet" version of this carrier I fell so in love with and bought isn't much of a surprise anymore. I think the whole exclusive deal is a hook and these items come off the drawing board with the intention of either making us pay twice or pay then grind so our "Unique" Items don't get overpowered by their planned follow up releases.
Great info. You are spot on as far as viability of starship designs and their longevity. Excelsior and its variants are still a match for the best many alien races have to offer.
Comments
That wasnt my point... my post was replying to someone who had said that an extra tactical console would be overpowered... when the Fleet Defiant has 5 tactical consoles...
Not that I'm interested in denying people anything, on the contrary. It's just another one of those slaps in the face, like when you buy a ship only to have a discount period to go live the day after you did, with no pre-warning or anything whatsoever. Cryptic's not required to be decent about these things, but it would be nice...for a change I fear I must add.
I can't think of the name of the episode, but the Enterprise D hit a Quantum Strand and nearly blew up, of the few officers on the Bridge Troi had the highest rank being the equivalent of a Lt.Com not a Commander. Not sure what Crushers rank was but I would assume that it was also a Lt.Com Rank Equivalent. But due to the nature of the roll in certain circumstances she could outrank both Picard and Riker.
A Commander by any name still grants an extra L4 BOFF skill, I don't see them adding it to the game anytime soon. People have been asking for this for two years I sincerely doubt it will happen.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Theres nothing silly about it.
Its about time and effort vs instant gratification.
Before PWE took over thats pretty much how it worked with most C-Store ships.
You could either buy it off the C-Store for instant gratification and account wide unlocks, or you could grind Emblems for a single ship on a single character.
Now granted, back then it all came down to the same ships, no better version, but the principle still applies.
It isn't free, but I agree.
It costs 200,000 Fleet Credits (PvE for it), then 4 tokens that you need to purchase from the CStore.
They're just making you pay $20+ for an upgrade of what you already paid $20 for.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
First of, it is not "free." If someone gets one of these ships, it is because they earned the ship in game. And just because the Armitage can be bought by spending money for C-Points/Zen does not mean that someone cannot likewise earn Dilithium in game and buy it. So even now, the Armitage can be obtained "free of charge" by your own standards. I own the Armitage, but I what I find outrageous is your notion that, just because money can be spent for it, it should be better than anything someone can actually earn by just playing the game. No game should be pay to win, so no paid item or capability should be unavailable unless you pay real money for it. If this game worked that way, I would not play it.
That aside, you seem to be having a problem with the meaning of the term "refit" and "retrofit." "Refit" and "Retrofit" are both terms to describe the upgrading of systems on an existing ship. In other words, you are arguing against your own point. It is far easier, faster, and cheaper to take an existing ship and upgrade its systems and improve its capabilities than it is to build a new one from the keel up. This is especially true in a war. You don't discard your current fleet and start building all brand new ships. You also don't leave your existing less-capable ships to be fodder for the enemy while you build a new fleet from scratch. You take your existing fleet and upgrade their capabilities, adding new ships as you can afford to and as time permits.
So basically, the reward their customers with twice the work, while those that didn't buy it only have to grind for it once.
That's a slap in the face no matter how you try to justify it, but then again, hardly a surprise given their current track record.
You sir, need to take a look at ST canon, in ST canon the Refit versions of a ship are a completely new ship that the older versions still in service can and will be turned into. I just think it is strange that when the Thunderchild and the Armitage, both of a clearly newer and more advanced dsesign are not used in refitting the old ships. Why take the time to refit a ship if not all of the advancements are put into it? To me that seems silly.
Also during the Dominion war it is canon that Utopia Planetia never had its docks filled 100% and I refuse to believe that Utopia Planetia is the only shipyard in the UFP. In my opionion older designs thus should no longer be built but the existing verions of those ships should be refitted into the 2407 version. While this may take longer then a small refit, it will increase combat effectiveness and lifespan.
Anyhow, I just think this action of adding a fleet version of the HEC to be a complete and utter slap in the face of its loyal customers.
'twice the work'?
I highly doubt you went ahead and grinded ALL that dilithium to get the heavy escort carrier.
Besides, the sheer amount of fleet credits needed to get it will probably rival the dilithium method. Sure dilithium is harder to get and has a cap, but fleet credits don't exactly fall out of the sky like EC, it takes days and days of constant contribution to get anywhere near 20k FCs, and even that is nowhere near the amount needed.
Then add on to the fact that you need to UPGRADE YOUR STARBASE to even get the OPTION to buy it, which will take months in it's own right, and it seems pretty fair to me.
Uhm, no.
If anything, this is showing that cryptic doesn't care just about money, it's giving everyone a fair chance of getting it without even having to grind mindlessly for their store credits. This move shows me that they care about their ENTIRE consumer base, and not just the ones that buys every single one of their pretty expensive ships.
That Armitage HEC cost 2000 c-points, which isn't exactly small money these days. Now I'm told it's going to be obsolete come season 6 and I have to grind for months to even have a hope of getting the version that's on par with the fleet ships. Also, depending on any future details, I may actually have to pay even MORE money for it.
The HEC came out just under a month ago, so cryptic must have known how quickly it was going to become outdated.
Meanwhile the Jem'Hadar attack ship, an already overpowered and tanky escort, gets a free buff to hull and shields and an extra console slot.
I have a suggestion for Cryptic - A month or so after season 6 comes out, adjust the HEC so it matches what the fleet HEC is currently on tribble (extra hull, shields and sci console slot). Meanwhile remove the fleet title from the HEC in the fleet store and that way we are all happy as they'll be the same, despite the fact people will be able to get the same ship for almost free, while we paid for it. I sure all of us who have *paid* for it expect this.
(Personally I'd be happy if you removed it's ability to equip danube runabouts)
I'm sorry if this sounds unkind, but this decision has made a lot of us angry.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Agreed, but unfortunately, "should" is not something Cryptic practices often.
They release the Armitage, then a few weeks later, its upgrade... both costing CPoints.
Ferengi, thy name is Stahl.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
so buy it from cstore or grind in fleet for slightly better version without torpedo console your choice. i am probably not i will stick with what i already got she has lots of abilities especially with the danubes and their tractor beams
.but 1 or the other minus the 1 console are still going to be pretty enven so buy it or grind it your choice
All I can say about the ship is...It is one bad TRIBBLE little boat. I got console to boost the damage output of the phasers and the torpedoes. Got the console which adds resistance to all and to improve its shields (10,477 right now).
My hopes for the Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier. A Lt. Commander Universal station. another tactical console slot and another fighter hanger slot. Improve its shielding and hull points. I think it would be a well balanced ship. I would use the Universal Lt. Commander slot for either a Science officer of engineer, not another tactical officer. So to improve its recovery of hull and shields.
I have to disagree with you there. Cryptic has been slapping us in the face from the start. As a beta tester for STO I was sent an offer to buy the advanced collector's addition. I have the box right in front of me, "This collector's edition grants EXCLUSIVE access to the original Enterprise, as well as EXCLUSIVE access to classic show uniforms". Oxford's describes exclusive as : Excluding some or most, as from membership or participation. Well 2 months into the game the ship & uniforms become C-store items.. wait, what, so I payed for a special collector's edition, showed loyalty by purchasing it before it was even released, but now anyone with a credit card or paypal can buy what was supposed to be my reward for supporting the game before it was even launched. So (I lost the exact numbers from back then) I added it all up and I basically paid $25 Canadian more for a box with a hologram picture and a replica com badge pin. The person that bought a basic copy on release day then paid a small fee two months later to unlock those items sure didn't pay the $85 + tax I did... There were a lot of us both beta & non-beta players that felt really betrayed by that move. Then add to that Cryptic's infamous line "Nothing in the C-store will ever translate into an in-game advantage, all c-store items will strictly be for appearance". Can anyone say Galaxy X Dreadnought, with Cloak & Spinal Phaser. Yeah purely cosmetic, doesn't affect gameplay in the least. So finding out that just around the corner is a bigger, better, badder "fleet" version of this carrier I fell so in love with and bought isn't much of a surprise anymore. I think the whole exclusive deal is a hook and these items come off the drawing board with the intention of either making us pay twice or pay then grind so our "Unique" Items don't get overpowered by their planned follow up releases.