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new fleet restrictions will kill fleets
proteus22
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
patch last night allowed fleet leaders the oppurtunity to restrict fleet members from donating to base projects and from using the base to buy stuff with credits earned by doing this you have given the fleet leaders the ability to keep all the best goodies for them selves so whats going rto happen fleets will start out all members donating but once it starts making the really cool stuff every one who is not a leader will mysteriously not be able to purchase the stuff just arriving at fleet store.which will TRIBBLE people off and cause them to abandon fleets which is sad because it looks to be an interesting concept.
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If a lot of their fleet members get fed up and quit, that would just end up limiting their ability to earn even more and better equipment.
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I share your concerns for the leader being able to basically rob the entire fleet blind. But I had those concerns ever since I heard about provisioning.
However, restrictions are very necessary, at least for larger fleets. Cryptic's own test fleet illustrates this, as most of the possible resources are filled within SECONDS of the opportunity to put resources in. Literally, it's so fast that an instant before I click "OK" to donate it (and I've taken about 3-5 seconds to open up the resource window, move the slider ANYWHERE above 0, and move the mouse to 'OK'), it's filled. The only one that doesn't seem to suffer from this is the fleet marks. This is likely worse in the case of players that have somehow accumulated 100M EC's (I still don't have any idea of how one can "easily" amass such a sum) and can recruit an army of DOffs and the like that they can just funnel straight into the project. They will help the fleet get a decent-tier base faster, but they will also make sure all the fleet credits end up soundly in their pocket.
As a sidenote: The more you have, the easier it gets to accumulate more in shorter time.
The first 10 Mio EC are the hardest, from there its quite easy.
But even if you take the "ultra easy, low profit"-road, you can make a million per day in an hour. Take 3 Months and you have it
Still looking forward to the fleetsystem, even with restrictions, which are really needed, though I would cap them per player, instead of letting the leader decide.
I myself Will be limiting who can buy from our store, namely cadets (recruits, newbies, or whatever you want to call them). But I intend this to be an encouragement for them to work for a promotion. I am a firm believer in a reward based system, and this will work for my Fleet.
I think the issue here is that you don't trust your currant fleet leader to make a sound judgement on this, (If I am wrong then I am sorry) and if this is the case I would suggest leaving before this system starts, find another fleet, or make your own.
Oh and as far as projects being filled two quickly, they will be at first. some players like me have been in the game since launch so we have vast resources at the moment, but this system will be ongoing (taking 7 months to complete the starbase) these resources WILL run out. When that happens everyone will be on an equal footing as far as donating things.
the user formally known as kiss.my.rear.admiral
Don't say that patching like that such a flaw in the design of starbases is a good solution. The main concern isn't about fleet leaders behaving like obvious bas****, it's the leaders making small mistakes in his favour. No one can blame someone for making mistakes but some of them can definitely be really annoying.
Anyway, this change has been made with Tier I starbases with people having plenty of ressources to spend. It may take a month to solve but it's not a major concern, once everyone will start to run out of the most common ressources.
This is the wrong solution to a non-existant problem, since no one ran tests at a large scale on other tiers.
And if there isn't enough weapons for everyone, so be it, reduce the cooldown, increase the output, increase the inputs too, etc.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
The main reason i am going to stop cadets from buying is to stop fleet hoppers from clearing out our store. As it stands in my fleet it is very easy to be promoted from cadet, IF you are willing to do what is necessary. (not that I can't see your point) But you do not NEED things from the fleet store (or C- Store for that matter) to play this game, but it is nice to have it. That is why I am limiting cadets from buying, so that it gives them something to work for.
the user formally known as kiss.my.rear.admiral
So the vast majority of players have to deal with leadership problems because you don't do your job when you recruit someone? If you choose to recruit anyone, this is YOUR problem, not ours.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
So what you are saying here is that you should have access to everything just because you joined a fleet, with NO work from yourself. That sounds fair
the user formally known as kiss.my.rear.admiral
So by this logic, level 1 Lieutenants should be allowed immediate access to Odyssey's loaded with mark 12 consoles and weapons.
You just broke the game.
He clears states it's easy to move up in ranks WITHIN the fleet, and the higher you go, the better the goodies. Rewards for loyalty. What a concept!!
You're asking for a nuke when you just stepped out of basic training. Anyone with firing synapes knows this is a bad idea.
ALSO, not all recruitment is done by the fleet leader, in some clans/fleets/cults they allow members in good standing to recruit. Then when said recruit is brought in, they are watched by the leader, as well as the other members to see if they're worth anything. If they are, they move up in ranks and allowed access to more swag.
Slow me down if this' cruising over you.
Also, people who fleet hop can gain fleet creds and eventually get enough for those T5's.
Player A joins Fleet B contributes to fleet projects - earns credits, player A gets kicked for being an A**hole. He then joins Fleet C dose the same thing, gets kicked for being an A** hole. He dose this a few times, he now has more than enough credits to buy anything he wants. He now joins Fleet F who has No buying restrictions for new comers, player A now rips off the Fleet store and leaves.
As I said before to get promoted from Cadet in my Fleet is easy (just have to join our website and wait for 8 days, a cooling off period if you will) If you can not be bothered to do this, then quiet frankly you are not the kind of person I want in the fleet, so you remain at Cadet.
I run a fair system that the entire feet understands and is happy with, I am by no means telling you how to run your Fleet. I was just adding my opinion to this thread, that you cannot be Ripped off by your Fleet leader!
If you earn enough credits to buy stuff but your leader is unwilling to let you when questioned join another fleet, OR make your own. You will still keep ALL the credits you have earned so far!
the user formally known as kiss.my.rear.admiral
Again an non-existent problem. You should expect the new fleet products to be bound on pickup. It would be surprising to see cryptic suddenly allowing players to get the best stuff without grinding for decades. So there is no point to buy every available item, unless you really want to annoy this specific fleet. No one can stop this kind of person, they can also behave nicely for a week or two to rank up anyway.
But the same problem remains : the very first fleet ships will be very rare, and fleet leaders will be tempted to keep them for themselves and their closest friends. In two years, stores will probably have hundreds of ship requisitions, so the point you raised won't be valid anymore, but everyone deserves to get a fleet ship if he contributed enough to buy it. There should be absolutely no restriction but the time you spend on it.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
first thing is a fleet is a group of people basically doing their own thing in the game. if you join a fleet it really should be because you want to work with people for a greater good and accept you have to follow their rules. if a fleet leader is a jerk, or overly restrictive then you leave and find another fleet. there are thousands of them in game so its not going to be hard to find one.
restricting what people can buy is important, as credits stay with the player. I could earn a billion credits and then join every fleet buying all their stuff and leaving. thats not good. i think any new player needs to prove himself to the fleet first of all, even if thats simply sticking around for a week or two, joining their website of what ever the requirement is.
it is up to the fleet to set the requirements and if a player does not like it then they can find another fleet. simple. remember that people cant contribute anything right now. its not like its a feature we have all had for 2 years and its now being gated. if people want in then they have to show loyalty to the fleet, assuming the fleet leader decides to place any restrictions at all. its their choice.
restricting base contribution seems a little less necessary, but again perhaps you dont want someone jumping in for 5 mins, making a large contribution and leaving straight away.
i really feel fleets should have control over their own activities and restrictions. if a player does not like it then they are in the wrong fleet.
I agree with you, but being a good fleet member is more than just contributing to projects in my opinion. As I stated my fleet system allows everyone to be promoted to Jr Officer, (With all the buying rights) by simply signing up to our website and waiting 8 days, I do not see the problem here.
What my system allows, is for monitoring new people to the Fleet and seeing if they are the kind of people we want. If they rip us off after that at least we can say we tried to get to know them, and the fault will be ours. But to let every new recruit buy anything they want from our store (with credits they have earned ells where) I think is bad management.
Like I have said this is just our (as a fleet) opinion, and I am SURE that other fleets will have their own way of doing things. We know this will work for US, as the rank system we use has been in place since since I made the Fleet when the game launched.
Maybe I should restrict Cadets from donating too, I don't know, but I like to give people something to work towards. I think donation restrictions are unfair, because even if they can't buy anything yet they can still build up Credits for a time when they can, or even use in another fleet if ours doesn't work out for them.
But I do agree that when we have nothing more to do than run provisioning projects this WILL be a none issue, and perhaps I will review how we work at that time.
the user formally known as kiss.my.rear.admiral
Many people don't like bureaucracy, believe me. If you enjoy playing in fleets where there are tons of rules, then why not creating your own? Find people who love rules so badly that they can obey anything without being forced to do so in game, no one will ever prevent you from running such a fleet.
But don't force me and the rest of holodeck to be the nice guy of the fleet, to value loyalty above all, etc. I have to follow enough rules IRL - I'm a public servant, which means too many rules already -, and I don't feel like following more and more rules in my leisure activities.
You may not enjoy having to be careful when you invite someone in your fleet, but I prefer to see restrictions and small issues for fleet leaders instead of stupid rules for everyone. You can choose to be a fleet leader, but you're a player by default, don't forget this. So, yes, definitely, the best solution is to give a headeache to a limited number of people instead of giving one to everyone but a bunch of happy few.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Placing these restrictions will probably only affect a large fleet on holodeck. I think in a smaller fleet with less the 10 people, they will probably never restrict anything. I think that the Starbase System as a whole will probably cause many large fleets to splinter into smaller clusters because people will want a larger profit share.
I think many large fleet leaders will probably abuse this system.
My solution is to never join a fleet run by tyrants.
A very easy way to know if your fleet is run by tyrants, look at how the fleet bank is run. If only 5 people in the fleet with hundreds of people benefit from the bank that is a oligarchy. Make a new fleet.
Thank you.
Maybe you want to talk to your leader since he is apparently a idiot, who mistreats you..
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This statement violates the first rule of DB detection:
1.) Anyone who self-proclaims to not be a douche is, in fact, a total douche of the highest magnitude and may even be a hipster-douche as well.
(kidding. I'm sure you aren't a douche.)
The next time you are promoted within our fleet ranking system, you can take from all tabs except the last. The last tab is where we keep all our MK X, XI and XII equipment or ultra rare non-bound stuff. To take those, you need to either talk to one of the Ruling Council or our Quartermaster. This holds true for EC's as well. No one can take EC's without permission. There are 7 of us on the Ruling Council, so this is a natural check/balance to a "clique-ey" situation arising where one person and his "special" friends get all the good loot. This system works very well for our fleet, and we have never had any issues with this method.
Now we have already talked about this new system of restricting individual contributors for the Starbases. As others in this thread have said, we plan on using a system like the one we use for our bank and apply it to the fleet stores. Earn your rank, get what you want....:eek: We, as the Council, will probably get some of the new stuff in the fleet store, that is naturally going to happen. But we will also let anyone who has earned the FC's and achieved proper rank in the fleet to also get all these new goodies too. We aren't going to TRIBBLE over our fleet members, we wouldn't have a fleet anymore. That is just bad business.
I can see why the OP has concerns, but as others have said, there are 1000's of fleets (just a guess) so if the one you are in is TRIBBLE over the junior members, find another. There has to be a fleet out there for you. If not, start your own. It is easy enough to find 4 other people on ESD to help you start your fleet and don't mind being kicked immediatly so you can have your own fleet of one and your very own starbase to use as you choose.
Sorry for the long winded reply, but that is my thoughts on this anyway
Co-Founder of TOS Veterans and TOS Qan Mang
except if you spent your time and resources helping said fleet unlock and build up their base, and then get screwed when the fleet lead clamps down so that his friends can get the good stuff.
No, the fleet loses its "you want to work with people for the greater good" aspect when you force joining fleets for the best items in the game.
If your going to have this sort of system in place you need to limit the ways a single individual can TRIBBLE over a group of people. This isn't Eve.
I can understand the want to protect inventories from new recruits. That should be easy enough to do without giving out so much overarching power.
I can be if required, or provoked... but generally not.
yes there is always a chance that a player can TRIBBLE you over in the last minute. but there is also the chance a fleet leader can kick everyone at the last minute as well. this is a power they already have. are we saying they should not have the ability to kick players as well, because that will do exactly the same thing even without this new system?
if a fleet leader decides to be a jerk right at the end (which is unlikely but possible), you the player still keep all your credits. you can join any other fleet, and there will always be other fleets that are just as developed or maybe better developed. bases are pretty much all the same. its not like everyone is unique. they all upgrade the same way, just in different orders.
you might then find a genuine fleet run by genuine people because if they last guy screwed you over then he is not worth knowing. better to find out sooner than later.
any fleet leader can be a jerk with the power he already has. this system allows them to protect the whole fleet from raiders early on and make sure new players dont TRIBBLE you over either.
the end of the day, this is an mmo and there is always someone lurking somewhere reading to strike and take advantage of a situation. these rules wont stop someone beinga jerk but i believe it can reduce it a little.
^^ Love this post! And completely agree with it!
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