um, yes? the difference between your beloved COM and LTC engendering station sovereign and the fleet sovereign's stats are 10% more hitpoints and shields, and a 4th tactical console. these fleet ships arent tier 6, they arent tier 5.5, they arent even +1. +1 ships had an extra ENS or LT station power. the fleet ships are merely 5.1 ships, like the odyssey and bortasq.
i hate to break it to you, but the stat difference between the fleet and stock sovereign is a nearly unnoticeable drops in the bucket. if you like playing your engineering heavy version, go for it, but stop trying to stifle something different becase its out of your confort zone. your sovereign already has 3 tactical powers, the sovereign you want has 3 tactical powers. sure for balance and consistency reasons they arent as high end as you would like them to be, but they are all that ship with its limited tactical potential needs. only a ship with as many tactical stations as geko's fleet sovereign is really going to be able to take advantage of 4 tac consoles.
Actually C-store refit/retrofit ships are considered +1 ships (I have a feeling that the c-store version will have similar boff layout as the Fleet variant minus the boost to hull points, shields, and extra console slot but with a special console) and the Fleet variant with be slightly superior to the c-store ships with the boost to hulls, shields and extra console slot. So it is not unreasonable.
Again, I'm not being inflexible and I'm not trying to stifle anything. I'm not saying "NO" to the tactical heavy sovereign, I'm just asking for a more options!!!! I said I will happily try to new setup. What I'm really want is for them to give a fleet variant of the Sovereign with its original setup at least. If they do, I'll be happy as a clam. I guess I can still fly with the current sovereign but I will be at a disadvantage in hull, shields, and console slot.
Getting the fleet variant with the original boff setup will allow people who like the tanking playstyle to still play in their style in endgame. Options is good man. That way we are not forced to change our playstyle and still fly our favourite ship.
I know you are a fan of the new Fleet Sovereign layout, but not all of us are. So be open to a variant. We are not trying to torpedo the tactical heavy Sovereign. We want options.
The problem most of us have with this design isn't the really the layout, It looks like an incredible ship, it's that many of us have been flying the Sovy for over 2 years now and this isn't even a refit for it... it's a complete redesign.
We've been looking for something that would bring the Sovereign more in line with the newer ships, be that through a C-Store version or another means, but a complete departure from the current version doesn't do us any good either.
Imagine if the defiant variants lost the LtC tactical and gained a LtC eng between the T4 and T5 versions. Same ship hull, possibly still viable, NOT a defiant anymore.
I don't think some changes would be a bad thing, but as far as I'm concerned that layout has made it a new ship class, not the Sovereign I love.
To butcher a popular phrase:
"It may look like a duck, quack like a duck, but that's definitely not a duck"
***EDIT***
I just want to add an addendum here. I managed to hit RA before the head start ran out WAY back when STO was first launched, and since then the Sovy has been my main ship. Even though I've been waiting for a C-Store version for... probably over a year now, I would NOT fly this refit. I'd rather have the base Sovy then gain the additional stats and loose my console layout.
If the devs has both the boff layouts to choose, I hope the gives us the option to change back if you don't like the boff layout, Maybe a time limit on using that type boff layout. I like the current boff layout for the sovereign but still needs a bit more kick to it but at the same time I would like to try out he new more tactical boff layout. So I suggest if they lets us choose between the 2 for the fleet version that they give us a limit so we can change back it does not fight our playing style.What do you guys think?
Also I wonder what the special console/s will be, the popular rapid fire quantum torpedo launcher which has the ability to fire both high yield 3 and torpedo spread 3 and levels with you? Or a new type of phasers or just a rapid fire console which boost the fire rate of torpedoes and phasers? What do you think?
Imagine if the defiant variants lost the LtC tactical and gained a LtC eng between the T4 and T5 versions. Same ship hull, possibly still viable, NOT a defiant anymore.
It sort of did, at T4 the Defiant has the Fleet Escort layout with the LT and Ensign Engineer but switches to the Tac heavy setup at VA. Other than appearance there's not much to link the T4 and T5 Defiant, due to the lower skill points available at T4 (at least at the lower end before you can get points into Engine performance) it even feels more like a Fleet Escort with the slightly sluggish feel it has.
What do you guys think? Also I wonder what the special console/s will be, the popular rapid fire quantum torpedo launcher which has the ability to fire both high yield 3 and torpedo spread 3 and levels with you? Or a new type of phasers or just a rapid fire console which boost the fire rate of torpedoes and phasers?
He mentioned 180 degree Quantum's rather than a console on Friday's podcast so maybe he'll go that way.
Personally I'd prefer that, I don't much like the consoles the ships come with usually so a passive like that would be nice and would fit well with the relatively slow turn rate of the Sovereign.
He mentioned 180 degree Quantum's rather than a console on Friday's podcast so maybe he'll go that way.
Personally I'd prefer that, I don't much like the consoles the ships come with usually so a passive like that would be nice and would fit well with the relatively slow turn rate of the Sovereign.
There's no dedicated Science slot but there's a universal slot that you could fill with a Science BOff.
Not sure about the 180 degree quantum can already do that with adding a launcher in each slot but I guess this will free up a slot. Or will this built into the ship?
glad to here about the uni boff station but what rank?
Not sure about the 180 degree quantum can already do that with adding a launcher in each slot but I guess this will free up a slot. Or will this built into the ship?
glad to here about the uni boff station but what rank?
The Uni slot is a Lieutenant.
From what he was saying he hadn't fully wiorked out the details of the Sovereign's special so was throwing ideas out. He mentioned the 180 degree Torpedo Launchers because he'd read about the fore turret and IIRC he also mentioned a console that gave a HY3/ Spread 3 but nothing seemed to be set in stone.
From what he was saying he hadn't fully wiorked out the details of the Sovereign's special so was throwing ideas out. He mentioned the 180 degree Torpedo Launchers because he'd read about the fore turret and IIRC he also mentioned a console that gave a HY3/ Spread 3 but nothing seemed to be set in stone.
Cool im surprised they are only just getting to know what the ships are supposed to look like and have.
Not sure why it the torpedo turret would have to be a console. Ships in this game need more uniqueness, so if it was me, I would just alter regular torpedoes on the Sovereign to have a 180 degree capability in the front.
Probably the new BO layout, but lacking the upgraded hull, shields, and console.
I think part of the reaosn why it has better hull, shields, and console is because them taking away the LTC Engineering slot. So I think the C-store version would not have that.
Besides, I think Sovereign captains would be pissed in having to spend $20-$25 for a C-store Sovereign Refit and the Fleet Sovereign still having better stats.
To illustrate my point, lets say for an example they suddenly added a Fleet Armitage and added another hanger bay (as the 10th console slot). Don't you think people who just forked out $20 would be pretty upset?
And we can argue over X power over Y ability til the cows come home, the fact remains the Devs themselves have stated that Enterprises are Pure Cruisers, which means that the Sovereign should have a Commander Engineering and a LTC Engineering BO slots.
the excelsior retrofit debunks that. enterprises are merely cruisers, that means they turn slow, have 8 weapons and are engineering heavy, thats all.
Actually C-store refit/retrofit ships are considered +1 ships (I have a feeling that the c-store version will have similar boff layout as the Fleet variant minus the boost to hull points, shields, and extra console slot but with a special console) and the Fleet variant with be slightly superior to the c-store ships with the boost to hulls, shields and extra console slot. So it is not unreasonable.
i said that because in all actuality the difference between the stock sovereign and most top of the line, better then anything in the c store sov, is ONLY 10% better in a few ways.
Again, I'm not being inflexible and I'm not trying to stifle anything. I'm not saying "NO" to the tactical heavy sovereign, I'm just asking for a more options!!!! I said I will happily try to new setup. What I'm really want is for them to give a fleet variant of the Sovereign with its original setup at least. If they do, I'll be happy as a clam. I guess I can still fly with the current sovereign but I will be at a disadvantage in hull, shields, and console slot.
Getting the fleet variant with the original boff setup will allow people who like the tanking playstyle to still play in their style in endgame. Options is good man. That way we are not forced to change our playstyle and still fly our favourite ship.
I know you are a fan of the new Fleet Sovereign layout, but not all of us are. So be open to a variant. We are not trying to torpedo the tactical heavy Sovereign. We want options.
there will now be 2 options, the tac heavy and the old reliable. the difference between the 2 besides station setup is again ONLY 10%, the old sov will still be completely viable. there isn't a big enough difference between the new and old one to make 2 fleet versions. options are not being taken away, the number of options has doubled.
I would prefer that you don't give Sovereign Captains the peverbial middle finger. :rolleyes:
Be nice if the Devs actually give a response regarding this. I prefer that don't get forced out of our ships to be pigeonholed in that ugly Starcruiser or that unwanted Heavy Cruiser. Or be told "hey sucks to be you, go play that old Sovereign, while we get shiney new". Or the expected "Buy the C-store ship, it just doesn't have the good stuff like every other Fleet ship".
I would prefer that you don't give Sovereign Captains the peverbial middle finger. :rolleyes:
Be nice if the Devs actually give a response regarding this. I prefer that don't get forced out of our ships to be pigeonholed in that ugly Starcruiser or that unwanted Heavy Cruiser. Or be told "hey sucks to be you, go play that old Sovereign, while we get shiney new". Or the expected "Buy the C-store ship, it just doesn't have the good stuff like every other Fleet ship".
Ha ha....well said Azurianstar!
You know, it looks like this issue of feeling forced to change the playstyle to fly the same ship is not just a Sovereign issue. All over the forums I see people complaining about the same things for other ships. I don't understand why Cryptic would suddenly change (radically for some ships) the boff layout to a point that players have to change their established playstyle, especially at this point in the game when many have established playstyles for endgame. Hey I'm ok with variants but they should still provide the original layout variants as well for those who do not want to radically change their preferred playstyle.
I would prefer that you don't give Sovereign Captains the peverbial middle finger. :rolleyes:
Be nice if the Devs actually give a response regarding this. I prefer that don't get forced out of our ships to be pigeonholed in that ugly Starcruiser or that unwanted Heavy Cruiser. Or be told "hey sucks to be you, go play that old Sovereign, while we get shiney new". Or the expected "Buy the C-store ship, it just doesn't have the good stuff like every other Fleet ship".
id prefer if sovereign captains didn't act so entitled, and throw a tantrum when thier favorite ship isn't as overpowered as they want it to be. you have nothing to complain about, the old sov is a great ship that is not outclassed, there is no reason to stop using it, especially if its closer to the way you like it then the new one. the fleet heavy cruiser is in every way inferior to the standard sov, except for a turn rate 1 better.
at least the proposed sovereign isn't as bad as the absolute garbage setup for the fleet galaxy, now thats a tragedy.
id prefer if sovereign captains didn't act so entitled, and throw a tantrum when thier favorite ship isn't as overpowered as they want it to be. you have nothing to complain about, the old sov is a great ship that is not outclassed, there is no reason to stop using it, especially if its closer to the way you like it then the new one. the fleet heavy cruiser is in every way inferior to the standard sov, except for a turn rate 1 better.
at least the proposed sovereign isn't as bad as the absolute garbage setup for the fleet galaxy, now thats a tragedy.
Whoa...no need to use incendiary words. Please let try to keep these talks civil. We are having a discussion like adults right? And please, we are not having a tantrum...we are sharing our views. So please be open to other's views and we all have to right to disagree ok? Let cool it now before it gets more ugly.
Anyhow, I totally agree with you regarding the Galaxy. Hopefully these fleet ships layouts are not the final versions.
Whoa...no need to use incendiary words. Please let try to keep these talks civil. We are having a discussion like adults right? And please, we are not having a tantrum...we are sharing our views. So please be open to other's views and we all have to right to disagree ok? Let cool it now before it gets more ugly.
Anyhow, I totally agree with you regarding the Galaxy. Hopefully these fleet ships layouts are not the final versions.
Dontdrunkimshoot has been very civil whereas I had to just not post anymore in order not to "shout" at some of the whiners in this thread. There are many ships to choose from, there are going to be many more with all of those fleet variants.
Still there are people that will have to do without their beloved ships altogether, or those that have been given very underwhelming fleet versions (looking at the Galaxy now). And you, after getting a very usable new sovvy still whine about it not being the same as the one you use. Well, I got an advice, either adapt or keep the same good old Assault cruiser.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
id prefer if sovereign captains didn't act so entitled, and throw a tantrum when thier favorite ship isn't as overpowered as they want it to be. you have nothing to complain about, the old sov is a great ship that is not outclassed, there is no reason to stop using it, especially if its closer to the way you like it then the new one. the fleet heavy cruiser is in every way inferior to the standard sov, except for a turn rate 1 better.
at least the proposed sovereign isn't as bad as the absolute garbage setup for the fleet galaxy, now thats a tragedy.
I think we have very much the right to be entitled and to throw a tantrum given what Cryptic has done. Again, we fly the Sovereign because it's a nicely balanced Tactical Cruiser with a Commander and LT Commander Engineering slots.
If we wanted more firepower, people had the choice to go to the Exclesior.
If people wanted more Tankability, they could go for the Star Cruiser or the Galaxy Refit.
If people wanted versitility, they got the Odyssey.
But with the Fleet Sovereign Refit (which we've been waiting for a very long time), the Devs threw a wrench in our faces in completely changing her configuration, to something completely alien. They could've used that for the Heavy Cruiser, the Aquarius Destroyer, or even a new ship. But OHHH NO, they had to take away what we loved about the Sovereign.
And speaking of that Heavy Cruiser, just funny she uses the BO Configuration of the Sovereign. Which to me at least says, "don't like the Fleet Sovereign's BO slots, well here you go. Sorry it's not your favorite ship."
Yeah......... no reason to hold a tantrum. :rolleyes:
Oh wait, there is a C-store version........yeah........who want's to buy a ship thats second rate now that Fleet Ships are top of the line?
I for one will adapt to the new layout, and if anyone wants to work with me on it when they start becoming available, please do. I already have a few ideas. Personally, I care more about getting her appearance fixed somewhat. As for the fleet Galaxy, I really feel sorry for them, and I am glad I don't fly them anymore.:( As far as us Sovy captains being whiners.... Yes we are.
same here pillslinger, i too will adapt but at the same time have mixed thoughts about the new boff stations. It is still early days so lets keep our fingers crossed. What I suggested was that they give us a time limit on the boff stations if they let us choose so we can see what it is like playing that tactical heavy side of the sovereing class, if you don't like it could always go back to the original boff stations. Everyone is happy. I am also concerned with the looks. They need to get the appearances right the great thing about star trek ships is that they look so good and was hoping that reflection will be on sto but there are alot of mistakes that need fixing, the aritst have done agood job on the newer ships but the older ones need fixing. As mentioned before Im still confused on why they are using older designs for the ships from the beginning of sto instead of, at that time, the latest look e.g. nemesis sovereign design, the uprated galaxy from DS9 etc.
I think we have very much the right to be entitled and to throw a tantrum given what Cryptic has done. Again, we fly the Sovereign because it's a nicely balanced Tactical Cruiser with a Commander and LT Commander Engineering slots.
If we wanted more firepower, people had the choice to go to the Exclesior.
If people wanted more Tankability, they could go for the Star Cruiser or the Galaxy Refit.
If people wanted versitility, they got the Odyssey.
But with the Fleet Sovereign Refit (which we've been waiting for a very long time), the Devs threw a wrench in our faces in completely changing her configuration, to something completely alien. They could've used that for the Heavy Cruiser, the Aquarius Destroyer, or even a new ship. But OHHH NO, they had to take away what we loved about the Sovereign.
And speaking of that Heavy Cruiser, just funny she uses the BO Configuration of the Sovereign. Which to me at least says, "don't like the Fleet Sovereign's BO slots, well here you go. Sorry it's not your favorite ship."
Yeah......... no reason to hold a tantrum. :rolleyes:
Oh wait, there is a C-store version........yeah........who want's to buy a ship thats second rate now that Fleet Ships are top of the line?
And this is another reason to get angry.
nothing is taken away. the old soverign is 90% as good as the tier 5 ship yard sovereign. something new has been added for those that like the soverign, but found its tactical capabilities woefully lacking. we understand that tanking and healing would be sacrificed for enhanced tactical abilities, and we are ok with that.
i think its great, especially its counterpart the vorcha, but if you cant live without COM and LTC engenering then its just not the ship for you. luckaly you have the ship for you already, you just avoided a huge grind. if your not happy with ether sovereign station setup, maybe your just finally going to have to do what everyone else has. fly a ship based on what station setup you want instead of what the ship looks like, thats the only choice us galaxy fans have.
Right lets get back on topic here. Should be coming ideas for the devs. What about a new type of shield for the refit? a special regen shield which can regen faster?
I do think it'd be better if it (oddly) gave up either an engineering or tactical console for a science one to help it's shield tanking a little. As it is now though, I think it'll be a good alternative to a beamscort and I'm looking forward to the KDF equivilent greatly.
I do think it'd be better if it (oddly) gave up either an engineering or tactical console for a science one to help it's shield tanking a little. As it is now though, I think it'll be a good alternative to a beamscort and I'm looking forward to the KDF equivilent greatly.
This would fit with the sto lore as it was mentioned in the "path to 2409" in 2386 I think it is the E-E has a major refit done.
But since with the new boff station's layout we will be getting a universal station. I was browsing on stowiki when I found that the ferengi D'karo ship has a rapid fire missles. I think they should add this but as part of the ship and not as console. And maybe add another science console?
From an effectiveness POV, it seems to me that the Sovereign will have too many Tactical Slots.
From a lore perspective - why is the Type 2 Explorer (according to some canon or almost-canon) not able to have more than one Ensign Science Officer? Not ever should any Federation (Tier 5) ship have less than a Lt.Science! Starfleet is about exploration, not conquest, and Cruisers are multi-purpose ships that definitely need to deliver on the science/exploration front!
A better layout would probably be:
Cmdr Engineer
Lt. Engineer
Lt.Science
Lt.Cmdr Tactical
Ensign Universal (if universal is needed, otherwise I'd take Tactical or Engineering here).
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
nothing is taken away. the old soverign is 90% as good as the tier 5 ship yard sovereign. something new has been added for those that like the soverign, but found its tactical capabilities woefully lacking. we understand that tanking and healing would be sacrificed for enhanced tactical abilities, and we are ok with that.
i think its great, especially its counterpart the vorcha, but if you cant live without COM and LTC engenering then its just not the ship for you. luckaly you have the ship for you already, you just avoided a huge grind. if your not happy with ether sovereign station setup, maybe your just finally going to have to do what everyone else has. fly a ship based on what station setup you want instead of what the ship looks like, thats the only choice us galaxy fans have.
The Fleet Sovereign is not the same as the Fleet Vor'cha. You drop an Escort configuration with the Fleet Vor'cha and it will chew up a Fleet Sovereign. And FAW3 or Spread 3 isn't going to deter that attacker.
As for the Fleet Sovereign, how many times I have to repeat myself that Sovereign captains like that Commander Engineering and LT Commander Engineering. So now Cryptic is forcing us to change to fly the Sovereign Refit, keep with the same configuration and force us to fly the Cheyenne, or stay with or old Sovereign and not have the benefits of the Fleet System.
The Fleet Sovereign is not the same as the Fleet Vor'cha. You drop an Escort configuration with the Fleet Vor'cha and it will chew up a Fleet Sovereign. And FAW3 or Spread 3 isn't going to deter that attacker.
As for the Fleet Sovereign, how many times I have to repeat myself that Sovereign captains like that Commander Engineering and LT Commander Engineering. So now Cryptic is forcing us to change to fly the Sovereign Refit, keep with the same configuration and force us to fly the Cheyenne, or stay with or old Sovereign and not have the benefits of the Fleet System.
And that is just wrong!
You mean you like the LTC and Commander Engineer slot?
My Engineer uses an Assault Cruiser and although I do like the current setup for its versatility I'm also eager to try the new BOff layout too, the option of using either is one I'm looking forward to rather than being stuck with the same LTC and Commander Engineer; it's certainly an effective pairing of stations but by keeping the LTC and Commander there are very few other BOff layouts available that aren't either not available to 'normal' ships such as twin LTCs or the same ship with slightly buffed hull and shield HP.
it would just make more sense to have all universal Commander slots on tier 5. That way the Captain can truly customize and balance their own ship and crew abilities. At this point I think its a no brainer, but I guess Cryptic is a little slow on the uptake.
The Enterprise E had 3 commanders 3 Lt. Commanders 1 Lieutenant and they did not have any Vice Admiral or his staff aboard.
I understand that Sovereign players have been waiting for a long time for a Sovereign with a boost to tactical. Personally I loved the original boff layout, but didn't mind a slight boost to tactical either through the rearrangement of the boff layout and/or a special ability/console. I guess none of expected how much we would get with the Fleet Sovereign. I guess you can say "be careful what you wish for". We got way more tactical than we expected...and to some of us the cost for the tactical boost was too high as it took a big cut to its tanking abilities.
Some of us loved the fact that the Sovereign had a perfect balance of offense, defense, and manuverability and wasn't happy that our beloved Sovereign lost this balance and became a completely different ship.
The following boff layout of Com ENG, LtComENG, LtCom Tac, LtSci was suggested as it maintains the tanking abilities while getting an extra tactical kick. Many of us were hoping for this but some have felt this was overpowered.
Another, compromise is ComENG, LtComTAC, Lt ENG, EnsTAC, Lt Universal. Yes, we still take a hit on tanking but at least we have an extra Lt ENG, and the Lt universal can be used for either science or engineering for extra tanking or used for another tactical for an extra tactical kick. I thought this was better than what is up on fleet shipyards as it allow for more flexibility to be more tactical or tanking.
Or if not even this, than we were asking for 2 fleet variants: One with the original boff layout for people who liked the balance and Second with the heavy tactical layout as presented in the Fleet shipyards. So fans of the the new layout can be happy and the fans of the original balanced layout can be happy as well. Then we would all be happy at endgame.
I've heard that the Fleet Sovereign was taken out from the shipyard in Tribble. I wonder what Cryptic is going to do.
Comments
Actually C-store refit/retrofit ships are considered +1 ships (I have a feeling that the c-store version will have similar boff layout as the Fleet variant minus the boost to hull points, shields, and extra console slot but with a special console) and the Fleet variant with be slightly superior to the c-store ships with the boost to hulls, shields and extra console slot. So it is not unreasonable.
Again, I'm not being inflexible and I'm not trying to stifle anything. I'm not saying "NO" to the tactical heavy sovereign, I'm just asking for a more options!!!! I said I will happily try to new setup. What I'm really want is for them to give a fleet variant of the Sovereign with its original setup at least. If they do, I'll be happy as a clam. I guess I can still fly with the current sovereign but I will be at a disadvantage in hull, shields, and console slot.
Getting the fleet variant with the original boff setup will allow people who like the tanking playstyle to still play in their style in endgame. Options is good man. That way we are not forced to change our playstyle and still fly our favourite ship.
I know you are a fan of the new Fleet Sovereign layout, but not all of us are. So be open to a variant. We are not trying to torpedo the tactical heavy Sovereign. We want options.
We've been looking for something that would bring the Sovereign more in line with the newer ships, be that through a C-Store version or another means, but a complete departure from the current version doesn't do us any good either.
Imagine if the defiant variants lost the LtC tactical and gained a LtC eng between the T4 and T5 versions. Same ship hull, possibly still viable, NOT a defiant anymore.
I don't think some changes would be a bad thing, but as far as I'm concerned that layout has made it a new ship class, not the Sovereign I love.
To butcher a popular phrase:
"It may look like a duck, quack like a duck, but that's definitely not a duck"
***EDIT***
I just want to add an addendum here. I managed to hit RA before the head start ran out WAY back when STO was first launched, and since then the Sovy has been my main ship. Even though I've been waiting for a C-Store version for... probably over a year now, I would NOT fly this refit. I'd rather have the base Sovy then gain the additional stats and loose my console layout.
Probably the new BO layout, but lacking the upgraded hull, shields, and console.
Also I wonder what the special console/s will be, the popular rapid fire quantum torpedo launcher which has the ability to fire both high yield 3 and torpedo spread 3 and levels with you? Or a new type of phasers or just a rapid fire console which boost the fire rate of torpedoes and phasers? What do you think?
I have noticed in this shot http://www.flickr.com/photos/r-et/7475978340/in/photostream/lightbox/ there is no science boff station!?
It sort of did, at T4 the Defiant has the Fleet Escort layout with the LT and Ensign Engineer but switches to the Tac heavy setup at VA. Other than appearance there's not much to link the T4 and T5 Defiant, due to the lower skill points available at T4 (at least at the lower end before you can get points into Engine performance) it even feels more like a Fleet Escort with the slightly sluggish feel it has.
He mentioned 180 degree Quantum's rather than a console on Friday's podcast so maybe he'll go that way.
Personally I'd prefer that, I don't much like the consoles the ships come with usually so a passive like that would be nice and would fit well with the relatively slow turn rate of the Sovereign.
There's no dedicated Science slot but there's a universal slot that you could fill with a Science BOff.
Not sure about the 180 degree quantum can already do that with adding a launcher in each slot but I guess this will free up a slot. Or will this built into the ship?
glad to here about the uni boff station but what rank?
The Uni slot is a Lieutenant.
From what he was saying he hadn't fully wiorked out the details of the Sovereign's special so was throwing ideas out. He mentioned the 180 degree Torpedo Launchers because he'd read about the fore turret and IIRC he also mentioned a console that gave a HY3/ Spread 3 but nothing seemed to be set in stone.
Cool im surprised they are only just getting to know what the ships are supposed to look like and have.
I think part of the reaosn why it has better hull, shields, and console is because them taking away the LTC Engineering slot. So I think the C-store version would not have that.
Besides, I think Sovereign captains would be pissed in having to spend $20-$25 for a C-store Sovereign Refit and the Fleet Sovereign still having better stats.
To illustrate my point, lets say for an example they suddenly added a Fleet Armitage and added another hanger bay (as the 10th console slot). Don't you think people who just forked out $20 would be pretty upset?
the excelsior retrofit debunks that. enterprises are merely cruisers, that means they turn slow, have 8 weapons and are engineering heavy, thats all.
and if you want to fly a sov with a COM and LTC engineering station go fly the standard sov, end of story.
i said that because in all actuality the difference between the stock sovereign and most top of the line, better then anything in the c store sov, is ONLY 10% better in a few ways.
there will now be 2 options, the tac heavy and the old reliable. the difference between the 2 besides station setup is again ONLY 10%, the old sov will still be completely viable. there isn't a big enough difference between the new and old one to make 2 fleet versions. options are not being taken away, the number of options has doubled.
Be nice if the Devs actually give a response regarding this. I prefer that don't get forced out of our ships to be pigeonholed in that ugly Starcruiser or that unwanted Heavy Cruiser. Or be told "hey sucks to be you, go play that old Sovereign, while we get shiney new". Or the expected "Buy the C-store ship, it just doesn't have the good stuff like every other Fleet ship".
Ha ha....well said Azurianstar!
You know, it looks like this issue of feeling forced to change the playstyle to fly the same ship is not just a Sovereign issue. All over the forums I see people complaining about the same things for other ships. I don't understand why Cryptic would suddenly change (radically for some ships) the boff layout to a point that players have to change their established playstyle, especially at this point in the game when many have established playstyles for endgame. Hey I'm ok with variants but they should still provide the original layout variants as well for those who do not want to radically change their preferred playstyle.
Cryptic please give a response.
id prefer if sovereign captains didn't act so entitled, and throw a tantrum when thier favorite ship isn't as overpowered as they want it to be. you have nothing to complain about, the old sov is a great ship that is not outclassed, there is no reason to stop using it, especially if its closer to the way you like it then the new one. the fleet heavy cruiser is in every way inferior to the standard sov, except for a turn rate 1 better.
at least the proposed sovereign isn't as bad as the absolute garbage setup for the fleet galaxy, now thats a tragedy.
Whoa...no need to use incendiary words. Please let try to keep these talks civil. We are having a discussion like adults right? And please, we are not having a tantrum...we are sharing our views. So please be open to other's views and we all have to right to disagree ok? Let cool it now before it gets more ugly.
Anyhow, I totally agree with you regarding the Galaxy. Hopefully these fleet ships layouts are not the final versions.
Dontdrunkimshoot has been very civil whereas I had to just not post anymore in order not to "shout" at some of the whiners in this thread. There are many ships to choose from, there are going to be many more with all of those fleet variants.
Still there are people that will have to do without their beloved ships altogether, or those that have been given very underwhelming fleet versions (looking at the Galaxy now). And you, after getting a very usable new sovvy still whine about it not being the same as the one you use. Well, I got an advice, either adapt or keep the same good old Assault cruiser.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I think we have very much the right to be entitled and to throw a tantrum given what Cryptic has done. Again, we fly the Sovereign because it's a nicely balanced Tactical Cruiser with a Commander and LT Commander Engineering slots.
If we wanted more firepower, people had the choice to go to the Exclesior.
If people wanted more Tankability, they could go for the Star Cruiser or the Galaxy Refit.
If people wanted versitility, they got the Odyssey.
But with the Fleet Sovereign Refit (which we've been waiting for a very long time), the Devs threw a wrench in our faces in completely changing her configuration, to something completely alien. They could've used that for the Heavy Cruiser, the Aquarius Destroyer, or even a new ship. But OHHH NO, they had to take away what we loved about the Sovereign.
And speaking of that Heavy Cruiser, just funny she uses the BO Configuration of the Sovereign. Which to me at least says, "don't like the Fleet Sovereign's BO slots, well here you go. Sorry it's not your favorite ship."
Yeah......... no reason to hold a tantrum. :rolleyes:
Oh wait, there is a C-store version........yeah........who want's to buy a ship thats second rate now that Fleet Ships are top of the line?
And this is another reason to get angry.
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nothing is taken away. the old soverign is 90% as good as the tier 5 ship yard sovereign. something new has been added for those that like the soverign, but found its tactical capabilities woefully lacking. we understand that tanking and healing would be sacrificed for enhanced tactical abilities, and we are ok with that.
i think its great, especially its counterpart the vorcha, but if you cant live without COM and LTC engenering then its just not the ship for you. luckaly you have the ship for you already, you just avoided a huge grind. if your not happy with ether sovereign station setup, maybe your just finally going to have to do what everyone else has. fly a ship based on what station setup you want instead of what the ship looks like, thats the only choice us galaxy fans have.
This would fit with the sto lore as it was mentioned in the "path to 2409" in 2386 I think it is the E-E has a major refit done.
But since with the new boff station's layout we will be getting a universal station. I was browsing on stowiki when I found that the ferengi D'karo ship has a rapid fire missles. I think they should add this but as part of the ship and not as console. And maybe add another science console?
From a lore perspective - why is the Type 2 Explorer (according to some canon or almost-canon) not able to have more than one Ensign Science Officer? Not ever should any Federation (Tier 5) ship have less than a Lt.Science! Starfleet is about exploration, not conquest, and Cruisers are multi-purpose ships that definitely need to deliver on the science/exploration front!
A better layout would probably be:
Cmdr Engineer
Lt. Engineer
Lt.Science
Lt.Cmdr Tactical
Ensign Universal (if universal is needed, otherwise I'd take Tactical or Engineering here).
The Fleet Sovereign is not the same as the Fleet Vor'cha. You drop an Escort configuration with the Fleet Vor'cha and it will chew up a Fleet Sovereign. And FAW3 or Spread 3 isn't going to deter that attacker.
As for the Fleet Sovereign, how many times I have to repeat myself that Sovereign captains like that Commander Engineering and LT Commander Engineering. So now Cryptic is forcing us to change to fly the Sovereign Refit, keep with the same configuration and force us to fly the Cheyenne, or stay with or old Sovereign and not have the benefits of the Fleet System.
And that is just wrong!
You mean you like the LTC and Commander Engineer slot?
My Engineer uses an Assault Cruiser and although I do like the current setup for its versatility I'm also eager to try the new BOff layout too, the option of using either is one I'm looking forward to rather than being stuck with the same LTC and Commander Engineer; it's certainly an effective pairing of stations but by keeping the LTC and Commander there are very few other BOff layouts available that aren't either not available to 'normal' ships such as twin LTCs or the same ship with slightly buffed hull and shield HP.
The Enterprise E had 3 commanders 3 Lt. Commanders 1 Lieutenant and they did not have any Vice Admiral or his staff aboard.
If they can not figure it out i would recommend:
1 universal commander
1 Engneering LTC
1 Tactical LTC
1 Science LTC or LT
1 universal Ensign
I like this boff stations too.
Some of us loved the fact that the Sovereign had a perfect balance of offense, defense, and manuverability and wasn't happy that our beloved Sovereign lost this balance and became a completely different ship.
The following boff layout of Com ENG, LtComENG, LtCom Tac, LtSci was suggested as it maintains the tanking abilities while getting an extra tactical kick. Many of us were hoping for this but some have felt this was overpowered.
Another, compromise is ComENG, LtComTAC, Lt ENG, EnsTAC, Lt Universal. Yes, we still take a hit on tanking but at least we have an extra Lt ENG, and the Lt universal can be used for either science or engineering for extra tanking or used for another tactical for an extra tactical kick. I thought this was better than what is up on fleet shipyards as it allow for more flexibility to be more tactical or tanking.
Or if not even this, than we were asking for 2 fleet variants: One with the original boff layout for people who liked the balance and Second with the heavy tactical layout as presented in the Fleet shipyards. So fans of the the new layout can be happy and the fans of the original balanced layout can be happy as well. Then we would all be happy at endgame.
I've heard that the Fleet Sovereign was taken out from the shipyard in Tribble. I wonder what Cryptic is going to do.
I guess we all have to be patient.