could you make sure that with said changes, the warp theorist(?) doff that applies a turnrate debuff with tachyon beam, doesn't loos its functionality.
will this change apply to the three piece omega power (gravimetric anchor?) which sets turn to 0 i think?
While we're going on about mines, can we talk about the new pay-2-win spawn of Satan, Tachyons? If you thought Chronitons were bad....
Tachyon Mines are broken, unfortunately. It was an attempt to use some a different kind of shield drain tech that would allow us to report those figures in the chat log. The test failed, and it was brought to light that more software time was needed.
A fix was made to change Tachyon Mines back to work the same way as other shield drains, but I believe it's part of Season 6 (our newer code branch).
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
my experience with them is that they did basically nothing. whenever they exploded against me i didn't notice a loss in shields. is that the broken part?
Tachyon Mines are broken, unfortunately. It was an attempt to use some a different kind of shield drain tech that would allow us to report those figures in the chat log. The test failed, and it was brought to light that more software time was needed.
A fix was made to change Tachyon Mines back to work the same way as other shield drains, but I believe it's part of Season 6 (our newer code branch).
This is the kind of information that should be priority one to get out to the players! It would save the devs from a ton of whining, crying, cursing and ranting, and it would make the players much more content and satisfied. Just knowing that you know, and are intending to fix an issue.
1) Inertial Dampers will now give resistance to Turn Rate debuffs. While it previously gave innate resistance to Flight Speed debuffs, it was not applying correctly to Turn Rate debuffs.
What is the intended effect of ID skill vs. Tactor beam flight speed debuffs?
As far as I can tell, it does not help vs. Tractor Beam flight speed debuffs, is this working as intended?
I see no issues with chronitons the way they are. People just were not used to them since everyone loved their quantums. I say leave them alone. Why change something that has been in there since the beginning. Do they really need to be changed? They seemed balanced to all the kinetic weaponry out there cept the silly ferengi missles and the swarmers on the dkora (joke missles aka ferengi fireworks).
If you do change them to have the proc clearable, then the damage or the cooldown should be changed accordingly to make them still competitive else they become as useless as the transphasics.
Just MHO, no hating please.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Seven of Eleven
"live long enough to be assimilated, resistance is futile"
I see no issues with chronitons the way they are. People just were not used to them since everyone loved their quantums. I say leave them alone. Why change something that has been in there since the beginning. Do they really need to be changed? They seemed balanced to all the kinetic weaponry out there cept the silly ferengi missles and the swarmers on the dkora (joke missles aka ferengi fireworks).
If you do change them to have the proc clearable, then the damage or the cooldown should be changed accordingly to make them still competitive else they become as useless as the transphasics.
Just MHO, no hating please.
same thing could be said about tractors.......but now we have pets. but really they should be clearable.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
The idea of putting points into a skill to decrease the effectiveness of Chroniton procs is okay.
But the idea of making APO negating Chronitons also, I'm against. APO already is overwhelmingly powerful and useful in what it does by greatly boosting both offense and defense. Does it REALLY need another "Get Out Of Jail For Free" card?
Expending points into defense may reign in some of the really powerful offensive builds out there, or risk being totally exposed to Chronitons.
The idea of putting points into a skill to decrease the effectiveness of Chroniton procs is okay.
But the idea of making APO negating Chronitons also, I'm against. APO already is overwhelmingly powerful and useful in what it does by greatly boosting both offense and defense. Does it REALLY need another "Get Out Of Jail For Free" card?
Expending points into defense may reign in some of the really powerful offensive builds out there, or risk being totally exposed to Chronitons.
look at the tool tip for omega, which does not work against this proc.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
The only real problem I can see with chronitons is the ability to spam via pets as well as the lack of a counter. On paper I'd very much like them to stay as they're one of the few resources for bringing down insane defense values beyond T-beams.
look at the tool tip for omega, which does not work against this proc.
I know this, but there's alot of calls on this thread to put Chroniton proc immunity into the already super powerful APO ability.
Because of this, I stand by my initial statement:
===
"The idea of putting points into a skill to decrease the effectiveness of Chroniton procs is okay.
But the idea of making APO negating Chronitons also, I'm against. APO already is overwhelmingly powerful and useful in what it does by greatly boosting both offense and defense. Does it REALLY need another "Get Out Of Jail For Free" card?
Expending points into defense may reign in some of the really powerful offensive builds out there, or risk being totally exposed to Chronitons."
===
There's calls on this thread that want to make Chronitons another useless, pointless weapon in STO. Their damage already is negligible, just like Transphasic Weapons (with current 20% bleedthrough). If certain people have their way, high Tac BOFF ships will again, have very little to worry about in terms of enemy actions to control or slow down their attacks.
In trouble with any sort of situation?
Easy: APO it out, works 99% of anything you come across out there.
And giving APO even more immunities will again, relegate another weapon from the narrowing PVP arsenal into true uselessness.
Thats the thing Omega does work against chron NOW. It just does nothing about the turn rate reduction... (Which is pretty much a programming bug).
The changes that allow both AuxtoID and Omega to counter the turn rate debuff seem like almost a programming oversight.
Chron Procs will still be very effective... considering that they are still a fairly high dmg torpedo.. and things like pets and doff procs now spamming them they are out there much more then was intended. (at least in the first draft of the game). The changes are good... Chrons will still be a good option... they just won't be a free un-counterable debuff.
Thats the thing Omega does work against chron NOW. It just does nothing about the turn rate reduction... (Which is pretty much a programming bug).
The changes that allow both AuxtoID and Omega to counter the turn rate debuff seem like almost a programming oversight.
Chron Procs will still be very effective... considering that they are still a fairly high dmg torpedo.. and things like pets and doff procs now spamming them they are out there much more then was intended. (at least in the first draft of the game). The changes are good... Chrons will still be a good option... they just won't be a free un-counterable debuff.
Based on 2 & 3 from Borts fix post, it doesn't. The fix isn't on Holodeck yet. At this point w/o counters working people who continue to use them and pets that use them are basically exploiting an admitted broken mechanic.
Edit: Below are parts 2&3. It's pretty clear by point 3 immunities/resists don't work b/c of a data level flag giving cront procs unresistable status.
2) The duration of Chroniton procs can now be resisted with Inertial Dampers skill. They previously were unresistable by any means (flagged as such, at the data level - oops).
3) The change in #2 also allows powers with Immunity or Resistance factors to actually function against the debuff. This includes AuxToID, Polarize Hull and APO, among others.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I know this, but there's alot of calls on this thread to put Chroniton proc immunity into the already super powerful APO ability.
Because of this, I stand by my initial statement:
===
"The idea of putting points into a skill to decrease the effectiveness of Chroniton procs is okay.
But the idea of making APO negating Chronitons also, I'm against. APO already is overwhelmingly powerful and useful in what it does by greatly boosting both offense and defense. Does it REALLY need another "Get Out Of Jail For Free" card?
Expending points into defense may reign in some of the really powerful offensive builds out there, or risk being totally exposed to Chronitons."
===
There's calls on this thread that want to make Chronitons another useless, pointless weapon in STO. Their damage already is negligible, just like Transphasic Weapons (with current 20% bleedthrough). If certain people have their way, high Tac BOFF ships will again, have very little to worry about in terms of enemy actions to control or slow down their attacks.
In trouble with any sort of situation?
Easy: APO it out, works 99% of anything you come across out there.
And giving APO even more immunities will again, relegate another weapon from the narrowing PVP arsenal into true uselessness.
It's a fix, not a buff. A main point of APO is you can't have your movement debuffed. There are other skills like PH which have the same movement immunity purpose. If a player has multiple movement counters, you'll need multiple movement debuffs. For example if they use PH, you know they can't counter EWP since PH shares a cooldown w/Hazzard Emitters. APO has a long global cooldown (30 sec if I remember right). That's plenty of time to apply other movement debuffs, you just won't have a broken I win anymore.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Sorry I'm late, but if Chronitons are so good why are they so cheap on the exchange?
This looks like it's back to the same old issue of nerfing anything that doesn't match the "cookie cutter" build.
Never noticed a big issue of being hit by Chronitons, but if there's a bug sure fix it.
why buy them on the exchange when a carriers pets will give you all the free chrono procs you could ever want and more? (plus they have tractor beams to boot)
Sorry I'm late, but if Chronitons are so good why are they so cheap on the exchange?
This looks like it's back to the same old issue of nerfing anything that doesn't match the "cookie cutter" build.
Never noticed a big issue of being hit by Chronitons, but if there's a bug sure fix it.
Because they're useless in PvE.
A relatively high procrate in PvP becomes a woefully insufficient procrate in PvE.
You'd only use Chronitons for CC and if you can't reliably CC, you can't CC at all.
They'd need to be:
- Removed from pets. Give them Protons, Quantums or Transphasics instead.
- Counterable. APO, AtID and maybe PH should counter them.
At which point, maybe they could get their procrate set to 100% (probably reducing damage to compensate), so they'd have a niche both in PvP and PvE.
Sorry I'm late, but if Chronitons are so good why are they so cheap on the exchange?
This looks like it's back to the same old issue of nerfing anything that doesn't match the "cookie cutter" build.
Never noticed a big issue of being hit by Chronitons, but if there's a bug sure fix it.
They're only good in PvP. NPCs fly so slow it's irrelevant.
With a PvP population of <ridicilouslowafteryearsofneglect>, it's doubtful we can affect the exchange prices that much. Most people probably want to get rid of their Chronitions.
Heck, have you seen the Beam Overload III prices recently? Cheap as dirt. Still one of the better burst damage powers out there, though.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Nerf Chroniton give us working Counters, pets, a mine layer back, and 1 or 2 TS on a team make for an unholy alliance, while you're at it take a look at Phasers, pretty plz
The idea of putting points into a skill to decrease the effectiveness of Chroniton procs is okay.
But the idea of making APO negating Chronitons also, I'm against. APO already is overwhelmingly powerful and useful in what it does by greatly boosting both offense and defense. Does it REALLY need another "Get Out Of Jail For Free" card?
Expending points into defense may reign in some of the really powerful offensive builds out there, or risk being totally exposed to Chronitons.
I'm not sure I agree to be honest, remember APO took a big hit to its damage bonus as a result of having supposed immunity to movement debuffs. As it stands, there's tractor beam, gravity well, warp plasma, vent theta, chroniton procs, graviton beam, anything that takes your engines out (phaser procs, tsse) and the omega three piece power that all debuff your movement and thus defense.
The whole reason these are supposed to come under the Umbrella of APO as far as I can gather is because Escorts would need to devote a lot of their non-tactical powers to avoiding movement debuffs if some stuff was only cleared by say polarize hull, and other stuff only cleared by epte. Slow escorts rapidly become dead escorts. But if an escort can't run EPTS and hasn't even a single hull heal it's also very vulnerable.
The solution presented is a very good one on paper, and it's only right that APO should be part of it. If APO wasn't we'd most likely need a respec to gain any real benefit from the new counters, also, by making APO part of the counter, rather than becoming "overwhelmingly powerful", it merely brings Chronitons into balance as escorts can get as much benefit as the other types that can better afford to slot Polarize Hull or Aux2ID, and to be honest, they need to keep moving to keep living to a far greater extent than cruisers or science ships.
By the way, thanks for having a look at this Borticus.
I know this, but there's alot of calls on this thread to put Chroniton proc immunity into the already super powerful APO ability.
Because of this, I stand by my initial statement:
===
"The idea of putting points into a skill to decrease the effectiveness of Chroniton procs is okay.
But the idea of making APO negating Chronitons also, I'm against. APO already is overwhelmingly powerful and useful in what it does by greatly boosting both offense and defense. Does it REALLY need another "Get Out Of Jail For Free" card?
Expending points into defense may reign in some of the really powerful offensive builds out there, or risk being totally exposed to Chronitons."
===
There's calls on this thread that want to make Chronitons another useless, pointless weapon in STO. Their damage already is negligible, just like Transphasic Weapons (with current 20% bleedthrough). If certain people have their way, high Tac BOFF ships will again, have very little to worry about in terms of enemy actions to control or slow down their attacks.
In trouble with any sort of situation?
Easy: APO it out, works 99% of anything you come across out there.
And giving APO even more immunities will again, relegate another weapon from the narrowing PVP arsenal into true uselessness.
Yes APO is so powerful that it's a complete waste of ****ing time to put it on your Escort. Seriously APO's so called Immunity is so bad that you're better off putting APD in there instead right now. Because at least you'll get some damage resistance to the coming sodomy.
APOs damage bonus is a farce it might as well not even have one right now it's so pathetic. APO doesn't work vs multiple tractor beams, is debatably ineffective vs mult grav wells, the Matter Anti Matter specialist doff has a chance to still stop you even with APO up, Chronitons shut it down, the Graviton Pulse still gibs you (as does the console).
Overwhelmingly powerful ability My Right ********. only people that know nothing about the game mechanics and other boff powers in the Lt Cmdr and Cmdr Tac slots, and how they all actually function would say APO is powerful.
Chroniton has been abused since launch in pvp. Be it via mines, or torps. Everyone and their kid brother that fields any serious team takes at least two chroniton delivery systems to pvp with them. Precisely because they have no counter, and lil face rollin pveers think that a movement debuff torp/mine would be useless in combat, and APO? APO has been a total joke since the skill tree revision if your fielding it in your cmdr slot your a moron, if you're fielding it in your lt cmdr you're still borderlined questionable, if you only have one lt cmdr tac ability and you are fielding it in anything but an especially spam rich environment you're definitely stupid.
Yes APO is so powerful that it's a complete waste of ****ing time to put it on your Escort. Seriously APO's so called Immunity is so bad that you're better off putting APD in there instead right now. Because at least you'll get some damage resistance to the coming sodomy.
APOs damage bonus is a farce it might as well not even have one right now it's so pathetic. APO doesn't work vs multiple tractor beams, is debatably ineffective vs mult grav wells, the Matter Anti Matter specialist doff has a chance to still stop you even with APO up, Chronitons shut it down, the Graviton Pulse still gibs you (as does the console).
Overwhelmingly powerful ability My Right ********. only people that know nothing about the game mechanics and other boff powers in the Lt Cmdr and Cmdr Tac slots, and how they all actually function would say APO is powerful.
Chroniton has been abused since launch in pvp. Be it via mines, or torps. Everyone and their kid brother that fields any serious team takes at least two chroniton delivery systems to pvp with them. Precisely because they have no counter, and lil face rollin pveers think that a movement debuff torp/mine would be useless in combat, and APO? APO has been a total joke since the skill tree revision if your fielding it in your cmdr slot your a moron, if you're fielding it in your lt cmdr you're still borderlined questionable, if you only have one lt cmdr tac ability and you are fielding it in anything but an especially spam rich environment you're definitely stupid.
Whcich version of APO are you using? The version I got works pretty good.
I believe people are refering to builds which rely on heavy spike damage such as BO&HY combos or buffing Sci Boff damage such as TBR.
But, generally APO isn't what it used to be, especially since pet spam (both factions).
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Comments
could you make sure that with said changes, the warp theorist(?) doff that applies a turnrate debuff with tachyon beam, doesn't loos its functionality.
will this change apply to the three piece omega power (gravimetric anchor?) which sets turn to 0 i think?
neither of these are used much, still ....
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Tachyon Mines are broken, unfortunately. It was an attempt to use some a different kind of shield drain tech that would allow us to report those figures in the chat log. The test failed, and it was brought to light that more software time was needed.
A fix was made to change Tachyon Mines back to work the same way as other shield drains, but I believe it's part of Season 6 (our newer code branch).
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
This is the kind of information that should be priority one to get out to the players! It would save the devs from a ton of whining, crying, cursing and ranting, and it would make the players much more content and satisfied. Just knowing that you know, and are intending to fix an issue.
100% This.
A stickied thread that is an official list of what is not working as intended/broken would be very advantageous, imho.
What is the intended effect of ID skill vs. Tactor beam flight speed debuffs?
As far as I can tell, it does not help vs. Tractor Beam flight speed debuffs, is this working as intended?
If you do change them to have the proc clearable, then the damage or the cooldown should be changed accordingly to make them still competitive else they become as useless as the transphasics.
Just MHO, no hating please.
"live long enough to be assimilated, resistance is futile"
same thing could be said about tractors.......but now we have pets. but really they should be clearable.
Thank you for this. Not all of us are really vocal but we generally agree with folks like Mav, MT, etc. on balance.
But the idea of making APO negating Chronitons also, I'm against. APO already is overwhelmingly powerful and useful in what it does by greatly boosting both offense and defense. Does it REALLY need another "Get Out Of Jail For Free" card?
Expending points into defense may reign in some of the really powerful offensive builds out there, or risk being totally exposed to Chronitons.
look at the tool tip for omega, which does not work against this proc.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I know this, but there's alot of calls on this thread to put Chroniton proc immunity into the already super powerful APO ability.
Because of this, I stand by my initial statement:
===
"The idea of putting points into a skill to decrease the effectiveness of Chroniton procs is okay.
But the idea of making APO negating Chronitons also, I'm against. APO already is overwhelmingly powerful and useful in what it does by greatly boosting both offense and defense. Does it REALLY need another "Get Out Of Jail For Free" card?
Expending points into defense may reign in some of the really powerful offensive builds out there, or risk being totally exposed to Chronitons."
===
There's calls on this thread that want to make Chronitons another useless, pointless weapon in STO. Their damage already is negligible, just like Transphasic Weapons (with current 20% bleedthrough). If certain people have their way, high Tac BOFF ships will again, have very little to worry about in terms of enemy actions to control or slow down their attacks.
In trouble with any sort of situation?
Easy: APO it out, works 99% of anything you come across out there.
And giving APO even more immunities will again, relegate another weapon from the narrowing PVP arsenal into true uselessness.
The changes that allow both AuxtoID and Omega to counter the turn rate debuff seem like almost a programming oversight.
Chron Procs will still be very effective... considering that they are still a fairly high dmg torpedo.. and things like pets and doff procs now spamming them they are out there much more then was intended. (at least in the first draft of the game). The changes are good... Chrons will still be a good option... they just won't be a free un-counterable debuff.
Based on 2 & 3 from Borts fix post, it doesn't. The fix isn't on Holodeck yet. At this point w/o counters working people who continue to use them and pets that use them are basically exploiting an admitted broken mechanic.
Edit: Below are parts 2&3. It's pretty clear by point 3 immunities/resists don't work b/c of a data level flag giving cront procs unresistable status.
2) The duration of Chroniton procs can now be resisted with Inertial Dampers skill. They previously were unresistable by any means (flagged as such, at the data level - oops).
3) The change in #2 also allows powers with Immunity or Resistance factors to actually function against the debuff. This includes AuxToID, Polarize Hull and APO, among others.
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"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
It's a fix, not a buff. A main point of APO is you can't have your movement debuffed. There are other skills like PH which have the same movement immunity purpose. If a player has multiple movement counters, you'll need multiple movement debuffs. For example if they use PH, you know they can't counter EWP since PH shares a cooldown w/Hazzard Emitters. APO has a long global cooldown (30 sec if I remember right). That's plenty of time to apply other movement debuffs, you just won't have a broken I win anymore.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
This looks like it's back to the same old issue of nerfing anything that doesn't match the "cookie cutter" build.
Never noticed a big issue of being hit by Chronitons, but if there's a bug sure fix it.
why buy them on the exchange when a carriers pets will give you all the free chrono procs you could ever want and more? (plus they have tractor beams to boot)
Because they're useless in PvE.
A relatively high procrate in PvP becomes a woefully insufficient procrate in PvE.
You'd only use Chronitons for CC and if you can't reliably CC, you can't CC at all.
They'd need to be:
- Removed from pets. Give them Protons, Quantums or Transphasics instead.
- Counterable. APO, AtID and maybe PH should counter them.
At which point, maybe they could get their procrate set to 100% (probably reducing damage to compensate), so they'd have a niche both in PvP and PvE.
disagree with pets being the only issue. anything without a way to counter it is not right. Glad to hear it will have a counter soon.
With a PvP population of <ridicilouslowafteryearsofneglect>, it's doubtful we can affect the exchange prices that much. Most people probably want to get rid of their Chronitions.
Heck, have you seen the Beam Overload III prices recently? Cheap as dirt. Still one of the better burst damage powers out there, though.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I'm not sure I agree to be honest, remember APO took a big hit to its damage bonus as a result of having supposed immunity to movement debuffs. As it stands, there's tractor beam, gravity well, warp plasma, vent theta, chroniton procs, graviton beam, anything that takes your engines out (phaser procs, tsse) and the omega three piece power that all debuff your movement and thus defense.
The whole reason these are supposed to come under the Umbrella of APO as far as I can gather is because Escorts would need to devote a lot of their non-tactical powers to avoiding movement debuffs if some stuff was only cleared by say polarize hull, and other stuff only cleared by epte. Slow escorts rapidly become dead escorts. But if an escort can't run EPTS and hasn't even a single hull heal it's also very vulnerable.
The solution presented is a very good one on paper, and it's only right that APO should be part of it. If APO wasn't we'd most likely need a respec to gain any real benefit from the new counters, also, by making APO part of the counter, rather than becoming "overwhelmingly powerful", it merely brings Chronitons into balance as escorts can get as much benefit as the other types that can better afford to slot Polarize Hull or Aux2ID, and to be honest, they need to keep moving to keep living to a far greater extent than cruisers or science ships.
By the way, thanks for having a look at this Borticus.
Yes APO is so powerful that it's a complete waste of ****ing time to put it on your Escort. Seriously APO's so called Immunity is so bad that you're better off putting APD in there instead right now. Because at least you'll get some damage resistance to the coming sodomy.
APOs damage bonus is a farce it might as well not even have one right now it's so pathetic. APO doesn't work vs multiple tractor beams, is debatably ineffective vs mult grav wells, the Matter Anti Matter specialist doff has a chance to still stop you even with APO up, Chronitons shut it down, the Graviton Pulse still gibs you (as does the console).
Overwhelmingly powerful ability My Right ********. only people that know nothing about the game mechanics and other boff powers in the Lt Cmdr and Cmdr Tac slots, and how they all actually function would say APO is powerful.
Chroniton has been abused since launch in pvp. Be it via mines, or torps. Everyone and their kid brother that fields any serious team takes at least two chroniton delivery systems to pvp with them. Precisely because they have no counter, and lil face rollin pveers think that a movement debuff torp/mine would be useless in combat, and APO? APO has been a total joke since the skill tree revision if your fielding it in your cmdr slot your a moron, if you're fielding it in your lt cmdr you're still borderlined questionable, if you only have one lt cmdr tac ability and you are fielding it in anything but an especially spam rich environment you're definitely stupid.
Whcich version of APO are you using? The version I got works pretty good.
CRF3 > APO3
APO 1 is literally for when you've not got the option to equip PH.
But, generally APO isn't what it used to be, especially since pet spam (both factions).
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"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
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