I completly agree with the OP, I mean look at the other things STO has copied from WoW
STO has an action tray to use abilities/powers. Blatent copy of WoW
STO lets me create an characrer. Ripping off WoW again.
STO lets me use my mouse cursor to interact with objects in the game world. Ripping off WoW again.
STO lets me level my character by farming for SP. STO is trying not to be like wow by using SP instead of XP, so obvious they are trying to hide this fact.
STO lets me form teams with other players. Ripping of WoW yet again.
STO has forums... just like Wow.
STO lets me move my avatar with my keyboard or mouse. Yup, cloning WoW mechanics.
There are loads more but STO is like so totally ripping of Wow.:eek:
The WIN is strong with this one.
<Serious Face>
STO is considerably different than any other MMO I have ever played. While that is due in part to its source material, there are many differences between it and others.
1. How fast you level. (Try getting to Level 50 in lolWOW in a month of causal play)
2. You can get to level cap without grinding.
3. Abilities aren't copies of each other. (Almost) everything does something unique or has some other shiny attached to it.
4. STO really blurs the lines when it comes to classes. Not only are there just 3 of them, under the right builds and circumstances, everyone can do everything. I find that rather nice.
5. Skill trees in STO are almost pointless.
6. STO is a very ability based game. At level 50 it is possible to have 6 ways to heal yourself, 5 ways to make yourself go faster, have dozens of minions, sometimes all at once.
And I could go on.... but I wont.
I do agree with the OP on one point, the ships don't feel very different size-wise at all. That's a very missed opportunity. All in all, STO is an average MMO that could become one of the genuine greats.
I can understand what you mean by the game being repetitive. As a big fan of star trek, I don't really mind it because of the stories that the missions are based upon. I find them to be pretty interesting because there are a lot of references to the tv shows, from the original series to present. I think it's cool to battle the jem'hadar and fight the true way. I also think it's cool to fly the enterprise and the defiant model ships. There are a lot of things I can definitely appreciate about this game, even the subtle references of the tv shows. One of the memorials at star fleet academy is for joshua from the nova squadran, and the class of I forget. Anyways, the only reason I knew anything about the memorial was that its referenced to an episode from the next generation. Even though this may seem pointless to others, I can appreciate them. I have played my fair share of star trek games, and I can say this one is my very favorite. As a star trek fan, I like beaming to places and depending on my ship, I like visiting the bridge that I've seen many times on tv. Overall I think this is a great game
The issue with the OP here is that you are comparing a game to another game that use the basic ingrediants you use to make an MMO in the first place, i can name a cluster of games all of which use the exact same layouts as WoW, and WoW you have to remeber, wasnt the first, it may be considered "the daddy" of MMO's but thats certainly only a title.
Also despite the basic formula, STO IS different to WoW and i shall outline as follows
Ground Combat:
- You can Dodge Roll out of the way (WoW Cannot)
- STO doesn't follow the Tank DPS Healer routine (it can but doesn't have to)
- Your skill tree choices are purely chosen on how you want to play, not by what your told to pick
- You don't need to be a healer to rez
- STO get grenades
-No weapon restrictions based on class
-Flanking your enemy causes more damage.
Skills:
- Both use a tray, as do pretty much all MMO's (GW2, SWG, SwTOR, PW, Rift)
-WoW Trays cannot be moved without a MOD. STO's can. (unless that has changed)
I outlined these because they are some of the key factors that make STO different for me, so your really barking up the wrong tree here because your trying to say that STO is a WoW clone when in reality, its another MMO following a tried and True MMO format.
Also take a look at these, and then consider wether WoW is the clone here.
Well look at that..a skills tray..and that character page..looks awfully familiar, don't you think?
(not sure if those are Ultima online Screenshots or one of the newer ones, but you get the Jist :P)
CoX is a different engine, Cryptic owns no rights to the CoX IP
To the OP, lets not compare lolWoW to STO plz.....
The engine has nothing to do with "owning the IP". Power up CoX and the Cryptic logo is still on the splash screen. Cryptic kept the rights to the engine used thus Paragon has to keep the logo on the login screen as part of the licensing agreement.
There was a thread about this 3 years ago on CoX forums.
OP: And the game is WoW-light in Space with a bit of added on Sims creation thrown in.
_____
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
MMO's are a giant interbred family of cheats and thieves. Any time you want to know who stole what from who, just look at this. Find a game, now look to the left of that game. They 'stole' something from every one of those games to the left.
And that's only up to 2010, and doesn't even cover all of the non-MMO games, movies, etc. that everyone steals from all the time.
MMO's are a giant interbred family of cheats and thieves. Any time you want to know who stole what from who, just look at this. Find a game, now look to the left of that game. They 'stole' something from every one of those games to the left.
And that's only up to 2010, and doesn't even cover all of the non-MMO games, movies, etc. that everyone steals from all the time.
Dang, that thing looks like the Krenims time charts with a mess of temporal incursions!
It's a well-known fact that every MMO that ever was and ever will be is a rip-off of WoW.
Yes, even those that came before; especially those that came before!
I mean, look at Warhammer! BLATANT WOW CLONE!
The only thing WoW brought to the genre is easymode, cartoonish graphics and poor story-telling. I suppose STO actually did rip-off some of those.
MMO's are a giant interbred family of cheats and thieves. Any time you want to know who stole what from who, just look at this. Find a game, now look to the left of that game. They 'stole' something from every one of those games to the left.
And that's only up to 2010, and doesn't even cover all of the non-MMO games, movies, etc. that everyone steals from all the time.
Entirely true. I don't know why people even bash WoW. It did a lot of things right.
IMO, the best thing they did right was the "trinity". In ALL roleplaying games, you can assume 1 of 3 roles: Deal Damage, Take Damage, and Heal/Support. In games that don't blatantly address this, is very easy for a group to fail because of people who don't really realize what their class should be doing (in tabletop games, this is less of an issue, because a GM that cares about the game itself will tailor the game such that if you don't have a healer or tank, it won't TRIBBLE you; Video games don't really have that luxury). But in games that have these clear cut definitions, user error falls on skill mostly, rather than lack of knowledge.
Also, WoW Stole from D&D. The complaint should be "STO = DnD in space".
The only real complaint I have with this game is the poor quality of its forum trolls; like the one that started this thread. In spite of constant feeding, this one at least doesn't seem to get any better... :P
STO is what it is. It will never be SWG, which in spite of its poor reputation and the fact that it suffered at the hands of an incompetent company, was light years ahead of anything before or since. OTOH, it doesn't try to be more than what it is, like KOTOR online.
It is essentially point click and spam buttons until the enemy dies.
Please explain how this is super vague description of how a game works is any different then how any other game in the history of gaming, with the exception of say electronic versions of board and card games, works.
Really, enlighten me, because I can't think of a single RPG or FPS game that doesn't work like this.
Maybe that is the OPs problem, they are playing the wrong genre. Try some RTS games maybe.
MMO's are a giant interbred family of cheats and thieves. Any time you want to know who stole what from who, just look at this. Find a game, now look to the left of that game. They 'stole' something from every one of those games to the left.
And that's only up to 2010, and doesn't even cover all of the non-MMO games, movies, etc. that everyone steals from all the time.
It has more to do with MMOs being designed by people lacking the visionary talent to break from the mold as opposed to "stealing". Put on top of that investors scared from investing in anything other than DIKU models and it's a recipe for copy paste ad nauseum.
MMO's are a giant interbred family of cheats and thieves. Any time you want to know who stole what from who, just look at this. Find a game, now look to the left of that game. They 'stole' something from every one of those games to the left.
And that's only up to 2010, and doesn't even cover all of the non-MMO games, movies, etc. that everyone steals from all the time.
If you play banjo music in the background (though the Deliverence movie will do in a pinch), it really drives the point home. :P
To all you people who think that STO is "wow in space," well personally what I like about STO is that it's so utterly different than wow in so many ways. It was actually pretty hard for me to get used to this game at first because of that.
If you want to see a wow knockoff, I found my way to STO from this PWE game. FW tries so hard to be a wow knockoff, but it falls short in so many ways except perhaps character detail.
In wow, you don't fight aboard space ships, and the ground mechanics of sto and wow are different enough to make one feel like a completely different experience when compared to the other.
And I'm going to say it, but wow is a pretty cool game. Then again, so is this.
As the thread title says, Star trek Online is WoW in space
My review of this turgid mess of a game is as follows:
Presentation:
The graphics are ok in space, but all the ships feel the same size there is no sense of scale at all which is pretty underwhelming..
This is patently false. When I first switch to a shuttle/fighter, I have to wonder where my ship is because I am zoomed out to where my normal ship is. I have to zoom in considerably to even see my smaller ship. When I switch between my Atrox and my Armitage, I have to adjust the zoom distance. If ships were all the same size, that would not be the case.
Are scales exaggerated? Of course they are. It would be impractical to scale them all to actual size. Either way, this makes it "WoW in space" how?
The ground based graphics are "meh" nothing to write home about.
The ground graphics could be better. However, unless you are saying that WoW's ground graphics are "meh," which is not true, this does not make STO "WoW in space."
the character models are well done but the animation looks amateurish.
Characters in WoW are cartoonish. This by design. It is the art style. The character models in STO are not cartoonish. Again, hardly an argument for "WoW in space."
Combat effects are decent and the maps themselves are pretty cool and look well done. Oh yeah I almost forgot about the way the ships fly, it looks stupid, clunky and there is no sensation of speed in these ships whatsoever.
A sensation of speed requires visual queues that don't exist in space (e.g., there are no highway lane markers to give the sense of speed). Likewise, the further you are from something as you pass it, the less sensation of speed you have. Riding a go-kart at 10 mph where you are right next to the road surface feels like you are going far faster than flying at 35000 feet at several hundreds of miles per hour.
Fighting distances in space in this game are measured in kilometers, not inches/feet. For instance, the maximum weapon range is generally 10km. That is just over six miles! There is no sensation of speed because the scale of the battles and the sizes of the objects don't lend well to that "feel." This is not a jet fighter simulation.
But again, this makes it "WoW in space" how?
The user interface is decidedly mediocre, standard MMO fare like I said above pretty much wow in space.
As you said, "standard MMO fare," so, EQ in space, SWG in space (wait, SWG was SWG in space), LotRO in space, Rift in space, and on and on and on, making the comparison moot.
Gameplay:
I find the missions boring, linear and generally too easy. The combat itself is a case of button mashing a la world of ******** but is actually less intuitive and polished. I never got a sense that the mission I was on made any difference in the game world, it is basically a grindy mmorpg, if you swapped out the character models for dwarves and elves you basically have a shoddy WoW clone.
Except for the fact that none of the systems feel anything like WoW. Having missions/quests are part of every game. It is nonsense to suggest that it is a WoW clone because there are missions.
The ship combat is very simplistic and repetitive - essentially identical mechanics to the ground combat but adding in a vertical axis. the effects and graphics are good, its just a shame the developers went for such a dumbed down combat mechanic as it could have been so much better. I particularly disliked all the loading screens, and the way the universe is actually navigated ("sector space") is particularly unimmersive. I also experienced a decent amount of lag both in space and on the ground which resulted in a few rage quits.
Again, this makes it a "WoW clone" how? Oh. That's right. When I played WoW I noticed that when I got in my WoW space ship, the combat was exactly like the ground missions. Wait ... what?
You have explained what you don't like about the game, but you have yet to explain how all this makes it "WoW clone."
Community:
STO too me just felt too much like a single player game with too many instances, there were times during play where I totally forgot that this is a Massively Multiplayer game. the local chat is like a ghost town for the most part and it just seemed like everyone was going it alone with little interaction.
Ah, yet another person who fails to understand that "Multiplayer" only means there is going to be more than one person in the game world and says nothing about what those players are doing in games, another person who does not understand that "soloable" and "single player" are not remotely synonymous.
Here is a little advice for you that will make your MMO experience a little better from now on. First, get over the idea that just because you like to group means that everyone must group. Second, accept that MMOs developed from now will be a mix of soloable and group content, and that people will be able to get to level cap without grouping. The days of forced grouping are long gone. Get over it.
STO is instanced because of the way the servers are linked. Unlike WoW and most other MMOs, everyone plays on the same "server," so areas are instanced so that the lag you complained about is minimized. This, by the way, defies your "WoW clone" argument.
As to the idea that chat is like a ghost town, again, this is nonsense. Chat is extremely active.
Either way, this is like WoW how?
Overall:
Disappointing to say the least, STO is a dull, repetitive and "safe" game. For anyone looking for a refreshing change from games like WoW, I warn you to look elsewhere as there isn't much innovation to be found here.
To sum it up, Star Trek Online is World of ********. In Space. :rolleyes:
To sum it up, you entire argument that this is "WoW in space" is that you don't like WoW and you don't like this game, so that makes it the same. :rolleyes:
Rather than this is a "WoW in space" clone, this complaint itself is nothing more than a "This is a WoW clone" clone, and a poor one at that because it argues against its very premise.
interesting. i honestly think thats the first time ive ever heard someone call sto wow in space on the forums.
i personally dislike wow and just about everything it is. sto is about as far away from how wow does things as you can get while staying in the mmo genre. its one of the reasons i like sto as its so unlike it.
its also a reason i did not like tor because of the similarities it had with wow.
I also completly agree with the OP, I mean look at the other things WoW has copied from EQ and others.
WoW has an action tray to use abilities/powers. Blatent copy of EQ
WoW lets me create an characrer. Ripping off EQ again.
WoW lets me use my mouse cursor to interact with objects in the game world. Ripping off EQ again.
WoW lets me level my character by using the talent tree, just another ripped off version of EQ's Alternate Advancement Point system.
WoW lets me form teams with other players. Ripping of EQ yet again.
WoW has forums... just like EQ.
WoW lets me move my avatar with my keyboard or mouse. Yup, cloning EQ mechanics.
There are loads more but WoW is like so totally ripping of EQ.
I love it how people keeps saying other games ripped off or copied WoW, but really WoW did the same dam thing.
so bottom line is if you really dont like STO that much, hey you know where the door is no one is forcing you to play.
MMO's are a giant interbred family of cheats and thieves. Any time you want to know who stole what from who, just look at this. Find a game, now look to the left of that game. They 'stole' something from every one of those games to the left.
And that's only up to 2010, and doesn't even cover all of the non-MMO games, movies, etc. that everyone steals from all the time.
Ah... that chart isn't up to date... IT'S A FAAAAAKE!!!!
MMO's are a giant interbred family of cheats and thieves. Any time you want to know who stole what from who, just look at this. Find a game, now look to the left of that game. They 'stole' something from every one of those games to the left.
And that's only up to 2010, and doesn't even cover all of the non-MMO games, movies, etc. that everyone steals from all the time.
Haha that's very cool Taco, I haven't seen anything like that since the Sir Bruce days. Thanks!
Comments
The WIN is strong with this one.
<Serious Face>
STO is considerably different than any other MMO I have ever played. While that is due in part to its source material, there are many differences between it and others.
1. How fast you level. (Try getting to Level 50 in lolWOW in a month of causal play)
2. You can get to level cap without grinding.
3. Abilities aren't copies of each other. (Almost) everything does something unique or has some other shiny attached to it.
4. STO really blurs the lines when it comes to classes. Not only are there just 3 of them, under the right builds and circumstances, everyone can do everything. I find that rather nice.
5. Skill trees in STO are almost pointless.
6. STO is a very ability based game. At level 50 it is possible to have 6 ways to heal yourself, 5 ways to make yourself go faster, have dozens of minions, sometimes all at once.
And I could go on.... but I wont.
I do agree with the OP on one point, the ships don't feel very different size-wise at all. That's a very missed opportunity. All in all, STO is an average MMO that could become one of the genuine greats.
I intend on seeing it there.
I am not one for censorship usually, but this thread should have vanished into thinning hair.
Also despite the basic formula, STO IS different to WoW and i shall outline as follows
Ground Combat:
- You can Dodge Roll out of the way (WoW Cannot)
- STO doesn't follow the Tank DPS Healer routine (it can but doesn't have to)
- Your skill tree choices are purely chosen on how you want to play, not by what your told to pick
- You don't need to be a healer to rez
- STO get grenades
-No weapon restrictions based on class
-Flanking your enemy causes more damage.
Skills:
- Both use a tray, as do pretty much all MMO's (GW2, SWG, SwTOR, PW, Rift)
-WoW Trays cannot be moved without a MOD. STO's can. (unless that has changed)
I outlined these because they are some of the key factors that make STO different for me, so your really barking up the wrong tree here because your trying to say that STO is a WoW clone when in reality, its another MMO following a tried and True MMO format.
Also take a look at these, and then consider wether WoW is the clone here.
http://mmohuts.com/wp-content/gallery/ultima-online/ultima-online-runes.jpg?ec9f9b
http://www.heartlessdoll.com/UORK_UI02.jpg
Well look at that..a skills tray..and that character page..looks awfully familiar, don't you think?
(not sure if those are Ultima online Screenshots or one of the newer ones, but you get the Jist :P)
this makes total sense now.
The engine has nothing to do with "owning the IP". Power up CoX and the Cryptic logo is still on the splash screen. Cryptic kept the rights to the engine used thus Paragon has to keep the logo on the login screen as part of the licensing agreement.
There was a thread about this 3 years ago on CoX forums.
OP: And the game is WoW-light in Space with a bit of added on Sims creation thrown in.
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
And that's only up to 2010, and doesn't even cover all of the non-MMO games, movies, etc. that everyone steals from all the time.
Dang, that thing looks like the Krenims time charts with a mess of temporal incursions!
Yes, even those that came before; especially those that came before!
I mean, look at Warhammer! BLATANT WOW CLONE!
The only thing WoW brought to the genre is easymode, cartoonish graphics and poor story-telling. I suppose STO actually did rip-off some of those.
IMO, the best thing they did right was the "trinity". In ALL roleplaying games, you can assume 1 of 3 roles: Deal Damage, Take Damage, and Heal/Support. In games that don't blatantly address this, is very easy for a group to fail because of people who don't really realize what their class should be doing (in tabletop games, this is less of an issue, because a GM that cares about the game itself will tailor the game such that if you don't have a healer or tank, it won't TRIBBLE you; Video games don't really have that luxury). But in games that have these clear cut definitions, user error falls on skill mostly, rather than lack of knowledge.
Also, WoW Stole from D&D. The complaint should be "STO = DnD in space".
Amazing name... shame on you... bad troll.
Click the signature to enter a world of wonder!
STO is what it is. It will never be SWG, which in spite of its poor reputation and the fact that it suffered at the hands of an incompetent company, was light years ahead of anything before or since. OTOH, it doesn't try to be more than what it is, like KOTOR online.
Please explain how this is super vague description of how a game works is any different then how any other game in the history of gaming, with the exception of say electronic versions of board and card games, works.
Really, enlighten me, because I can't think of a single RPG or FPS game that doesn't work like this.
Maybe that is the OPs problem, they are playing the wrong genre. Try some RTS games maybe.
It has more to do with MMOs being designed by people lacking the visionary talent to break from the mold as opposed to "stealing". Put on top of that investors scared from investing in anything other than DIKU models and it's a recipe for copy paste ad nauseum.
This chart is a FAAAKE!
Everyone knows there is only one MMO!
If you play banjo music in the background (though the Deliverence movie will do in a pinch), it really drives the point home. :P
R.I.P
If you want to see a wow knockoff, I found my way to STO from this PWE game. FW tries so hard to be a wow knockoff, but it falls short in so many ways except perhaps character detail.
In wow, you don't fight aboard space ships, and the ground mechanics of sto and wow are different enough to make one feel like a completely different experience when compared to the other.
And I'm going to say it, but wow is a pretty cool game. Then again, so is this.
Problem, wow haters?
Actual Join Date : Feb 2010
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is patently false. When I first switch to a shuttle/fighter, I have to wonder where my ship is because I am zoomed out to where my normal ship is. I have to zoom in considerably to even see my smaller ship. When I switch between my Atrox and my Armitage, I have to adjust the zoom distance. If ships were all the same size, that would not be the case.
Are scales exaggerated? Of course they are. It would be impractical to scale them all to actual size. Either way, this makes it "WoW in space" how?
The ground graphics could be better. However, unless you are saying that WoW's ground graphics are "meh," which is not true, this does not make STO "WoW in space."
Characters in WoW are cartoonish. This by design. It is the art style. The character models in STO are not cartoonish. Again, hardly an argument for "WoW in space."
A sensation of speed requires visual queues that don't exist in space (e.g., there are no highway lane markers to give the sense of speed). Likewise, the further you are from something as you pass it, the less sensation of speed you have. Riding a go-kart at 10 mph where you are right next to the road surface feels like you are going far faster than flying at 35000 feet at several hundreds of miles per hour.
Fighting distances in space in this game are measured in kilometers, not inches/feet. For instance, the maximum weapon range is generally 10km. That is just over six miles! There is no sensation of speed because the scale of the battles and the sizes of the objects don't lend well to that "feel." This is not a jet fighter simulation.
But again, this makes it "WoW in space" how?
As you said, "standard MMO fare," so, EQ in space, SWG in space (wait, SWG was SWG in space), LotRO in space, Rift in space, and on and on and on, making the comparison moot.
Except for the fact that none of the systems feel anything like WoW. Having missions/quests are part of every game. It is nonsense to suggest that it is a WoW clone because there are missions.
Again, this makes it a "WoW clone" how? Oh. That's right. When I played WoW I noticed that when I got in my WoW space ship, the combat was exactly like the ground missions. Wait ... what?
You have explained what you don't like about the game, but you have yet to explain how all this makes it "WoW clone."
Ah, yet another person who fails to understand that "Multiplayer" only means there is going to be more than one person in the game world and says nothing about what those players are doing in games, another person who does not understand that "soloable" and "single player" are not remotely synonymous.
Here is a little advice for you that will make your MMO experience a little better from now on. First, get over the idea that just because you like to group means that everyone must group. Second, accept that MMOs developed from now will be a mix of soloable and group content, and that people will be able to get to level cap without grouping. The days of forced grouping are long gone. Get over it.
STO is instanced because of the way the servers are linked. Unlike WoW and most other MMOs, everyone plays on the same "server," so areas are instanced so that the lag you complained about is minimized. This, by the way, defies your "WoW clone" argument.
As to the idea that chat is like a ghost town, again, this is nonsense. Chat is extremely active.
Either way, this is like WoW how?
To sum it up, you entire argument that this is "WoW in space" is that you don't like WoW and you don't like this game, so that makes it the same. :rolleyes:
Rather than this is a "WoW in space" clone, this complaint itself is nothing more than a "This is a WoW clone" clone, and a poor one at that because it argues against its very premise.
I also completly agree with the OP, I mean look at the other things WoW has copied from EQ and others.
WoW has an action tray to use abilities/powers. Blatent copy of EQ
WoW lets me create an characrer. Ripping off EQ again.
WoW lets me use my mouse cursor to interact with objects in the game world. Ripping off EQ again.
WoW lets me level my character by using the talent tree, just another ripped off version of EQ's Alternate Advancement Point system.
WoW lets me form teams with other players. Ripping of EQ yet again.
WoW has forums... just like EQ.
WoW lets me move my avatar with my keyboard or mouse. Yup, cloning EQ mechanics.
There are loads more but WoW is like so totally ripping of EQ.
I love it how people keeps saying other games ripped off or copied WoW, but really WoW did the same dam thing.
so bottom line is if you really dont like STO that much, hey you know where the door is no one is forcing you to play.
Ah... that chart isn't up to date... IT'S A FAAAAAKE!!!!
:P
Alas, there is a conspiracy for everything.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Haha that's very cool Taco, I haven't seen anything like that since the Sir Bruce days. Thanks!
Aaaand there's UO, still chugging along. LOL. :P
People are broken. - Lum the Mad