I don't tank anything, as I mentioned in my previous post I only use a Cruiser when I want a change from my primary Escorts so don't take Threat Control (too much of a liability in an STF when Pugging with my Escort).
Fair enough, but that will lead me to something in your next point.
With that being the case I have little choice but to support and TBH the STFs usually go much better for the Escorts being able to stick around longer and kill there targets faster.
I just wish more Cruisers supported the Escorts so that I didn't also have to try and tank an elite Tac Cube in a Tac/ Fleet Escort, all the time surrounded by Cruisers with 100% hull and shields and idle heals.
While you are actually healing and supporting with your cruiser, which is great, I imagine there are a lot of (probably not as skilled players) having the same feelings about Threat Control as you expressed above.
Maybe they're afraid no one will heal them, maybe they're afraid they will be the only cruiser with threat control and die repeatedly (very possible, with an average or mediocre team or build, maybe they have alternate ships like an Escort and they don't want to be constantly respawning when they do decide to fly that ship.
Another part of the problem is that Threat Control is a major build choice, and you are either all in or go home.
My own opinion, is that it is simply much more efficient from a damage in perspective for the Cruisers to be the ones to be taking the damage in.
From an efficiency standpoint, they are quite clearly the optimal ship for this (primarily due to their combination of massive hull points, and overall strong shields) - that's not to say it can be done in other ships, like my Tac/Guramba for example.
So my point is that Cruisers, while I don't believe they suck outright, are in an easy place for bad and mediocre players to be convinced they do suck.
When all you ever see are Non-tanking, non-healing Cruisers that are generally doing less damage than the Escort who is getting all of the flak it's easy to think the entire ship class is basically pointless.
On the other hand if you play with even 1 competent Cruiser, built for either full on tanking or massive group support, it can really change some opinions.
I had the same dilemma you did.
I wanted to try a Tactical in a Cruiser, as I already had 2 Tacs (Fed/KDF) in Escorts.
I didn't want to redo my entire build and take threat control in my (usually very high) DPS Escorts.
So I built a new Character specifically for it, with Threat Control (6 ranks) and almost an entirely self focused build (I do have Aux to SIF 3, PH 1 & HE 2 to toss on others, but its rare I'm not the focus of NPC fire).
(*I have an Eng in a Cruiser and he is so ridiculously hard to kill, and does such little DPS that it becomes a bit of a snooze fest, the Tac at least might actually die if I'm not completely on the ball or do something dumb like tank the Elite Cube and the Gate on ISE at the same time)
This is probably not for everyone, but I do encourage anyone who plans to spend the majority of a characters time on Elite STFs in a Cruiser to absolutely take threat control (or alternatively build for healing, but it seems people want to heal others even less than they want to be shot at).
So my point is that Cruisers, while I don't believe they suck outright, are in an easy place for bad and mediocre players to be convinced they do suck.
For me, Cruisers are no different to Escorts or Science ships in that they're only as good as the player behind them, they're all vulnerable to a bad build but Cruisers are perhaps a little worse because they're more forgiving; a poorly built Escort will be incredibly squishy and a poorly built Science ship will be a squishy Cruiser with less weapons whereas a poorly built Cruiser will still have some staying power and OK damage from its 8 weapons, just nowhere near what it should have. A less experienced player may not even see anything wrong as they're getting OK results as is.
It probably also doesn't help that the iconic ships are all Cruisers (with a couple of exceptions) so even those that may prefer to be the damage dealer or to play a more CC oriented role will try and make a Cruiser that they really like work for them when they may just use something more to their liking if it wasn't that iconic ship.
I wanted to try a Tactical in a Cruiser, as I already had 2 Tacs (Fed/KDF) in Escorts.
I didn't want to redo my entire build and take threat control in my (usually very high) DPS Escorts.
So I built a new Character specifically for it, with Threat Control (6 ranks) and almost an entirely self focused build (I do have Aux to SIF 3, PH 1 & HE 2 to toss on others, but its rare I'm not the focus of NPC fire).
I'd do the same but I really dislike Cruiser game play. I can live with it when I'm taking a break from Escorts but the slower, more gradual game play with more damage over time rather than the burst of an Escort leaves me a little bored after a while. I'll just leave tanking Tac Cubes to those that are good at it and enjoy it.
Maybe they're afraid no one will heal them, maybe they're afraid they will be the only cruiser with threat control and die repeatedly (very possible, with an average or mediocre team or build, maybe they have alternate ships like an Escort and they don't want to be constantly respawning when they do decide to fly that ship.
Another part of the problem is that Threat Control is a major build choice, and you are either all in or go home.
My own opinion, is that it is simply much more efficient from a damage in perspective for the Cruisers to be the ones to be taking the damage in.
From an efficiency standpoint, they are quite clearly the optimal ship for this (primarily due to their combination of massive hull points, and overall strong shields) - that's not to say it can be done in other ships, like my Tac/Guramba for example
This is probably not for everyone, but I do encourage anyone who plans to spend the majority of a characters time on Elite STFs in a Cruiser to absolutely take threat control (or alternatively build for healing, but it seems people want to heal others even less than they want to be shot at).
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My eng captains rock cruisers. All have starship threat control to at least 6pts.
On elites, everything wants me dead. Which is fine, because then they're not shooting at my teammates, and I can take the hits. Sure, they get me once in a while... and it really shows how much my having threat helps, as once I die, people start dropping like flies.
One thing I try to do with my builds, is to make sure I can heal teammates, so I always keep abilities that allow me to do both. (Aux2Sif, HE, Sci team, Eng team, TSS, Extend shields, etc...)
I know my damage isn't anywhere near escort levels, by any stretch of the imagination. But I do feel like my being the punching bag, and healing capability, make up my contribution.
Aha. I knew I could not read through a page in the STO forums without stumbling across yet another "that class doesn't do as much DPS as my ship so they suck entirely and are idiot n00bs" thread. LOL.
Are any of these kids every going to realize that in some MMOs there are actually SUPPORT classes? Classes that can tank, survive and hold their own AND benefit the team as well?
The answer is . . . no, they will not. They are too fixated on their little DPS numbers. And they choose to ignore any heals that their teammates use on them. And they will continue to do so. Just like they will immediately come in and flame this response because I play all three classes and admit that all three classes . . . and their ships . . . kick *** in the hands of the right player.
I could show you a few YouTube video of multiple escorts trying to take down a single Odyssey . . . and losing. But do not worry, the response from the DPS addicts will be "that video was faked or set up, etc. etc. etc."
So . . . on to something more important . . . is it really true that some guy in America made a hamburger that weighs almost 1000 pounds? For the love of god that's a lot of beef.
That being said -- I far prefer the less cow-like-steering of KDF cruisers.
Thats why I like my Excelsior so much. Turns very well, especially with a Mk XII rare RCS involved.
I have noticed something regarding aggro in my cruisers. I tend to be able to draw aggro to my self better with a single cannon/turret/beam array build than I have with beam weapons/torps or beam weapons/turrets. I think the critical hit increase due to the higher rate of fire comes into play when determining aggro.
As far as healing, I do what I can to heal my team mates. I try to make other cruisers aware that team members need heals as well. Sometimes I am able to heal an ally, some times I am not. The primary thing that prevents me from throwing heals/buffs to needy allies? When they bolt away from my range to avoid taking damage. I can't heal you if you are too far away. And these are usually the ones giving people the hard time to people for not healing them.
I have to agree 100% with this post. I didn't take on a Cruiser to command the game's equivalent to the Pasteur. I took it for deep space, long range survivability. One BOP wouldn't dare take on a large cruiser on its own. Recall if you will Generations when one Duras Sister says to another "That is a Galaxy Class Starship." She said this in a manner of, "If we attack this, we're dead." Escorts were meant for more short range or grouped attacks as seen in Deep Space Nine. There is no way that an Escort could go out in deep space and hold out against a group of surprise Borg or whatever else decides to attack them.
I think one of the major problems with this game overall and it greatly affects things like PvP and that is this game is not involved enough. We're given a baseline power structure and skill set and that's it. There is no opportunity to learn unique skills that only you would be able to have, or at least you and a few others. Instead all the consoles and special abilities can all be bought and therefore if you don't spec yours properly, you fail. There is no opportunity to consult with your officers on possible alternative attacks, or infiltrating the enemy ship and obtaining their shield frequency. H*ll we don't even get to set our shield frequency. All in all, a lot of things in this game just won't measure up to real Star Trek. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.:(
For the creator of the post, u need to take another ship if u want to be a dps-crusier, the galaxy is a ship for healers, sorry but the problem here is not STO, is you that picked the wrong ship.
I have to agree 100% with this post. I didn't take on a Cruiser to command the game's equivalent to the Pasteur. I took it for deep space, long range survivability. One BOP wouldn't dare take on a large cruiser on its own. Recall if you will Generations when one Duras Sister says to another "That is a Galaxy Class Starship." She said this in a manner of, "If we attack this, we're dead." Escorts were meant for more short range or grouped attacks as seen in Deep Space Nine. There is no way that an Escort could go out in deep space and hold out against a group of surprise Borg or whatever else decides to attack them.
First of all, there is no such thing like "deep space, long range surviablity" in this game. And the Duras sisters where flying a 20years old BoP, ofc they dont stand a chance against the federation flagship. A modern BoP in the series should be able of deal a good damage to a galaxy class, they have enought fire power for take a crusier if can take it by surprise, the cloak is a big stategic advantage.
Crusiers are no meant to be the damage dealers (DPS), in any MMO game each class have a role, u can't have a class that do anything (dps, heal, support, etc) because the result of that will be all the players using the same class. STO is not the exception, Crusiers are the most durable ships for a logical reason, if u turn them into a DPS Ship too, there will be no reason why fly a ship that is not a crusier.
And
I think one of the major problems with this game overall and it greatly affects things like PvP and that is this game is not involved enough. We're given a baseline power structure and skill set and that's it. There is no opportunity to learn unique skills that only you would be able to have, or at least you and a few others.
lol, game balance? Did u ever hear about it?
There is no opportunity to consult with your officers on possible alternative attacks, or infiltrating the enemy ship and obtaining their shield frequency. H*ll we don't even get to set our shield frequency. All in all, a lot of things in this game just won't measure up to real Star Trek. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.
Consult your officers? lol "Ey man, don't kill me, i need to check with my tactical officer what we can do" This is a real-time game, no a Turn-based game (like Heroes of Might and Magic). Sorry man but this is like say that basketball is bad sport because u cant hit the ball with your feet, go to play soccer if u want that.
I do feel a bit... Inadequate in my Ops Oddy when it comes to deeeeps, but oh heavens can I tank everything (save the infamous Borg Invistorp of insta-death, nothing like full shield facing, AuxTSIF3 popped, TSS2 Popped, EPTS3 popped, TT1 Popped, BFI Popped, and 80 - 100% Hull suddenly disappearing like it was never there). I haven't PvPed much in this game though, so can't disagree there.
Way I see cruisers is a support Role, yes, properly built one can dish out a lot of damage with a cruiser (Perhaps not as much as a properly flown escort, but whatevs), but they're also fantastic in other roles. On KASE I can fight the probes and usually get three to four generators down (and maybe a cube) before a demolition team brings the gate down to 10%.
Finally, Nothing like coming out of Full Impulse in an Oddy, turning and powersliding to bring a beam broadside to bear on your enemy as you pop a bunch of powers.
If I had the proper motivation, I'd probably have a lot of fun making a powerslide video. Just some song with a good beat and a bunch of random powersliding clips using cruisers, the bortas, and the giant bathtubs that are carriers. Maybe try to swing it in a few of the smaller ships.
Fast and the Furious: Trek Edition
What I am saying is that powersliding still is amusing to me.
Who are you kidding? In my experience it has been just the opposite.
Cruisers for the win - Escorts and carriers = squishy, science vessels (with the right skills and consoles) would be a good second, but cruisers by far are the best ships in the game.
I have a science vice admiral with an Odyssey (sciense variant) cruiser. I die far less often than any other ship in every STF and team mission, I deal out more damage, and usually still have time to heal / buff my team-mates.
I usually have every enemy on the map chasing me, freeing up my team-mates for other tasks.
Escorts may do a lot of damage in the short term, but look at them funny, and they have to run away to heal.
I use turrets and quantum torpedoes, that way every energy weapon can fire into all arcs, I have 2 hull heal abilities (3 if you count worker bees), and 3 shield heal abilities. All but 1 of the 6 can be used either on myself or friends. Torpedo spread for creating agro, defeating mines, or slow projectiles - gravity well and scramble sensors to restrict enemy movement and bring them all in together where it is easy to damage multiple enemy at the same time, energy syphon and tractor beam to slow stragglers and reduce their effectiveness (and increase my own). Round it off with a tractor beam and rapid fire for the turrets = a nice addition to any team.
As for PVP - once you get out of the escort's front firing arc, they're toast, and they can't get through the shields of a cruiser fast enough to prevent me from getting out of their front arc.
ALL of the ships in game rock . . . with the right players.
Cruisers take skill. They are not for everyone. Same as the other classes. They take skill. But you need to have skill in that profession . . . no I am NOT talking skill points or tree here . . . I am talking about the human condition . . . the player behind the keyboard's skill.
I have played and have experience in all three classes. After months of gameplay i can say this. I suck as a SCi in space. Does that mean science ships suck? NOPE! It just means I don;t play well as a SCI in space while other players kick *** at it. However on the ground SCi is my strongest class. In space TAC is my strongest class followed VERY closely by cruisers. In fact I'd say I play them evenly well.
On the ground I do okay in all the classes, but am weakest as a Tac. That does NOT mean Tac's suck. It just means I have not mastered that class ont he ground yet.
So for those posting that "x-ship" or "x-class" in this game sucks, you need to redo your thinking. just because YOU suck at playing that class (and you DO suck at it if you are making such a complaint), then that is just you, and the item in game doesn;t suck at all. Want proof? Go chalange anyone in the same level/class/ship as you and watch peacefully as they wipe the floor with you, playing the exact same ship you claim is useless.
If I had the proper motivation, I'd probably have a lot of fun making a powerslide video. Just some song with a good beat and a bunch of random powersliding clips using cruisers, the bortas, and the giant bathtubs that are carriers. Maybe try to swing it in a few of the smaller ships.
Fast and the Furious: Trek Edition
What I am saying is that powersliding still is amusing to me.
I don't think anything in this game is quite as satisfying as powersliding "into" ESD in a cruiser. CHECK OUT MY INERTIA IN SPACE.
cruiser = thin sheet of paper... 2 torpedoes blast to them and they are turned into space dust ...
cruiser + engeneer should be hell of a tank class something that you have to spend 10 minutes with 4 teamates to blast just once !
Well STO is a space arcade game oriented to blowing things and warring ... federation is suppose to never kill a living thing even if that japertize their crew and get them killed in return ?
It has always sort of bothered me that the higher FAW ranks are locked out from cruisers. It doesn't really make sense thematically, or on any level to be honest.
as I said before, cruisers realy sucks in pve for the moment, since they lacks of dps and only mean to heal other and in pve the dps is the key of victory, they are useless.
Most of the balance problems we see in this game is due to the fact that the engine and everything surrounds it isn't Star Trek. The game is a space MMO first with a Star Trek flavour to grab the Trekkie dollar. Once you accept this then the game becomes much easier to play, if you ca't accept this, then this game will never work for you and you'll always be unhappy with it.
In an ideal Star Trek game the cruisers would be Queens of the battlefield with all other ships supporting them in that role. There would be light, medium, and heavy hulls, each capable of mounting a limited amount of equipment and their maneuverability based off their mass. The role and abilities of the would depend on what equipment you had mounted rather than what class of ship you had and what your crew consisted of, but the effectiveness of the equipment would be based off your crew.
Heavies (Galaxy Class) would be tough with the most powerful weapons, but clumsy and unable to target fast moving ships, lights (Defiant Class) would be fast and able to hit important secondary targets (take out weapon emplacements, destroy fighter support, capture points quickly, maybe even shoot down incoming plasma torpedo's), they could also team up in packs to harass larger targets, strike specific hard points on heavies etc. Mediums would be in between (Intrepid) their flexibility would be their greatest asset.
Tiers would allow you to get better ships that mount better quality tech to make them more efficient at their job. But a low tier Heavy would still be a tough target for a more advanced medium.
Starship customization would be more like Mechwarrior/Battletech than what we have now.
The problem with all of this is that it no longer fits in an MMO structure and it wouldn't work well unless every PVE misson was a team based thing (which personally I would love but others would hate).
Well, if dps is all that really matters for most of the things in this game, then of course balance is skewed in favor of escorts. Not that a cruiser or science vessel can't compete, of course, but those builds generally are heavily invested in a specific group of skills/powers/ship/captain class. I think, until Cryptic makes up their minds as to if they want a trinity at all, nothing of note can be done.
Until then, I suggest you get over being yelled at by escort pilots for not tanking or healing them, or seeing that lone grav well I aggro'ing everything in sight over your threat control skill. :frown:
Until then, I suggest you get over being yelled at by escort pilots for not tanking or healing them
Oh, I get over getting yelled at really quickly. Especially if they throw obscenities in their yelling. In fact, I never hear from that person ever again.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Oh, I get over getting yelled at really quickly. Especially if they throw obscenities in their yelling. In fact, I never hear from that person ever again.
You could yell back and heckle thier inability to kill foes.
"Why is the Cube still in our viewport??"
"Why fires the guns on your ship? The Pakled?"
Maybe if there were more serious consequences for dying then people would appreciate the strengths of cruisers and the support capabilities of science vessels more? I like how the timer increases in length the more you die in STF's, but it still doesn't feel like much of a penalty. I still see escorts pop several times in normal STF PUG's so it doesn't seem like death is merely an inconvenience even with the timer adjustments.
Maybe you should only get one life in an STF? If you die you get booted, no rewards, see you in an hour to try again. If that was the case then flying an escort would be much more of a challenge and having a diverse fleet that takes care of each other would be essential. Too much imbalance and the team fails. Maybe the difficulty would need to be adjusted in STF's too if we had a one life restriction?
I've been playing Global Agenda recently and I've come to appreciate how important team balance is in that game. You literally need one of each class on a raid, if you don't have balance you're pretty much guaranteed to fail. I'd love to see that kind of mechanic in this game too.
Well, again, part of the problem is that you technically have two support classes and one damage-dealing class. Sure, you can build the support classes into decent dps machines (3-4k without being a tac career), but then you have people moaning and groaning about the fact that you aren't doing your "job". Now, I like the idea that I can hop into whatever ship I damn well please and make it do what I want...relatively speaking, of course. But, in the name of balance, you kinda have to draw the line somewhere: make all ships technically, equal, so that an escort tanks as well as a cruiser/science, or double-down on the trinity? Because right now I see a lot of confrontation between cruiser and escort captains over what their roles/flaws are supposed to be, completely neglecting the fact that there is a third class.
So tbh, I think the weak science powers has forced this discussion into a cruisers vs. escorts mentality, as no one thinks of a science vessel as a key part of the balance: it's just, "why isn't that cruiser tanking the cube and healing my glass-cannon?!". I will agree with you whole-heartedly on Global Agenda: each class can deal damage and has its own way of avoiding damage. That's what this game isn't exploiting, which is defense. If defense was more apparent a bonus, you wouldn't need to worry about escorts tanking because the minute they stopped they got nuked due to a negative defense value multiplying damage done to them.
That way, you now have tanking by way of self-healing and maintaining aggro, or by flying around fast enough to avoid most of the damage. And if they would stop nerfing science skills and fix the damn tree for science powers, you could start to see some really interesting builds taking advantage of those odd ships with unique BOFF layouts. Sorry for the rant, but when people keep framing this debate as cruiser vs. escort, they kinda miss the entire point imho
Comments
Fair enough, but that will lead me to something in your next point.
While you are actually healing and supporting with your cruiser, which is great, I imagine there are a lot of (probably not as skilled players) having the same feelings about Threat Control as you expressed above.
Maybe they're afraid no one will heal them, maybe they're afraid they will be the only cruiser with threat control and die repeatedly (very possible, with an average or mediocre team or build, maybe they have alternate ships like an Escort and they don't want to be constantly respawning when they do decide to fly that ship.
Another part of the problem is that Threat Control is a major build choice, and you are either all in or go home.
My own opinion, is that it is simply much more efficient from a damage in perspective for the Cruisers to be the ones to be taking the damage in.
From an efficiency standpoint, they are quite clearly the optimal ship for this (primarily due to their combination of massive hull points, and overall strong shields) - that's not to say it can be done in other ships, like my Tac/Guramba for example.
So my point is that Cruisers, while I don't believe they suck outright, are in an easy place for bad and mediocre players to be convinced they do suck.
When all you ever see are Non-tanking, non-healing Cruisers that are generally doing less damage than the Escort who is getting all of the flak it's easy to think the entire ship class is basically pointless.
On the other hand if you play with even 1 competent Cruiser, built for either full on tanking or massive group support, it can really change some opinions.
I had the same dilemma you did.
I wanted to try a Tactical in a Cruiser, as I already had 2 Tacs (Fed/KDF) in Escorts.
I didn't want to redo my entire build and take threat control in my (usually very high) DPS Escorts.
So I built a new Character specifically for it, with Threat Control (6 ranks) and almost an entirely self focused build (I do have Aux to SIF 3, PH 1 & HE 2 to toss on others, but its rare I'm not the focus of NPC fire).
(*I have an Eng in a Cruiser and he is so ridiculously hard to kill, and does such little DPS that it becomes a bit of a snooze fest, the Tac at least might actually die if I'm not completely on the ball or do something dumb like tank the Elite Cube and the Gate on ISE at the same time)
This is probably not for everyone, but I do encourage anyone who plans to spend the majority of a characters time on Elite STFs in a Cruiser to absolutely take threat control (or alternatively build for healing, but it seems people want to heal others even less than they want to be shot at).
For me, Cruisers are no different to Escorts or Science ships in that they're only as good as the player behind them, they're all vulnerable to a bad build but Cruisers are perhaps a little worse because they're more forgiving; a poorly built Escort will be incredibly squishy and a poorly built Science ship will be a squishy Cruiser with less weapons whereas a poorly built Cruiser will still have some staying power and OK damage from its 8 weapons, just nowhere near what it should have. A less experienced player may not even see anything wrong as they're getting OK results as is.
It probably also doesn't help that the iconic ships are all Cruisers (with a couple of exceptions) so even those that may prefer to be the damage dealer or to play a more CC oriented role will try and make a Cruiser that they really like work for them when they may just use something more to their liking if it wasn't that iconic ship.
I'd do the same but I really dislike Cruiser game play. I can live with it when I'm taking a break from Escorts but the slower, more gradual game play with more damage over time rather than the burst of an Escort leaves me a little bored after a while. I'll just leave tanking Tac Cubes to those that are good at it and enjoy it.
I approve these messages :cool:
My eng captains rock cruisers. All have starship threat control to at least 6pts.
On elites, everything wants me dead. Which is fine, because then they're not shooting at my teammates, and I can take the hits. Sure, they get me once in a while... and it really shows how much my having threat helps, as once I die, people start dropping like flies.
One thing I try to do with my builds, is to make sure I can heal teammates, so I always keep abilities that allow me to do both. (Aux2Sif, HE, Sci team, Eng team, TSS, Extend shields, etc...)
I know my damage isn't anywhere near escort levels, by any stretch of the imagination. But I do feel like my being the punching bag, and healing capability, make up my contribution.
Are any of these kids every going to realize that in some MMOs there are actually SUPPORT classes? Classes that can tank, survive and hold their own AND benefit the team as well?
The answer is . . . no, they will not. They are too fixated on their little DPS numbers. And they choose to ignore any heals that their teammates use on them. And they will continue to do so. Just like they will immediately come in and flame this response because I play all three classes and admit that all three classes . . . and their ships . . . kick *** in the hands of the right player.
I could show you a few YouTube video of multiple escorts trying to take down a single Odyssey . . . and losing. But do not worry, the response from the DPS addicts will be "that video was faked or set up, etc. etc. etc."
So . . . on to something more important . . . is it really true that some guy in America made a hamburger that weighs almost 1000 pounds? For the love of god that's a lot of beef.
Transfer Shield Strength. The skill that allows you to either heal you own shields or shields of another ship. Its a science boff skill.
Thats why I like my Excelsior so much. Turns very well, especially with a Mk XII rare RCS involved.
I have noticed something regarding aggro in my cruisers. I tend to be able to draw aggro to my self better with a single cannon/turret/beam array build than I have with beam weapons/torps or beam weapons/turrets. I think the critical hit increase due to the higher rate of fire comes into play when determining aggro.
As far as healing, I do what I can to heal my team mates. I try to make other cruisers aware that team members need heals as well. Sometimes I am able to heal an ally, some times I am not. The primary thing that prevents me from throwing heals/buffs to needy allies? When they bolt away from my range to avoid taking damage. I can't heal you if you are too far away. And these are usually the ones giving people the hard time to people for not healing them.
I think one of the major problems with this game overall and it greatly affects things like PvP and that is this game is not involved enough. We're given a baseline power structure and skill set and that's it. There is no opportunity to learn unique skills that only you would be able to have, or at least you and a few others. Instead all the consoles and special abilities can all be bought and therefore if you don't spec yours properly, you fail. There is no opportunity to consult with your officers on possible alternative attacks, or infiltrating the enemy ship and obtaining their shield frequency. H*ll we don't even get to set our shield frequency. All in all, a lot of things in this game just won't measure up to real Star Trek. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.:(
First of all, there is no such thing like "deep space, long range surviablity" in this game. And the Duras sisters where flying a 20years old BoP, ofc they dont stand a chance against the federation flagship. A modern BoP in the series should be able of deal a good damage to a galaxy class, they have enought fire power for take a crusier if can take it by surprise, the cloak is a big stategic advantage.
Crusiers are no meant to be the damage dealers (DPS), in any MMO game each class have a role, u can't have a class that do anything (dps, heal, support, etc) because the result of that will be all the players using the same class. STO is not the exception, Crusiers are the most durable ships for a logical reason, if u turn them into a DPS Ship too, there will be no reason why fly a ship that is not a crusier.
And
lol, game balance? Did u ever hear about it?
Consult your officers? lol "Ey man, don't kill me, i need to check with my tactical officer what we can do" This is a real-time game, no a Turn-based game (like Heroes of Might and Magic). Sorry man but this is like say that basketball is bad sport because u cant hit the ball with your feet, go to play soccer if u want that.
Way I see cruisers is a support Role, yes, properly built one can dish out a lot of damage with a cruiser (Perhaps not as much as a properly flown escort, but whatevs), but they're also fantastic in other roles. On KASE I can fight the probes and usually get three to four generators down (and maybe a cube) before a demolition team brings the gate down to 10%.
Finally, Nothing like coming out of Full Impulse in an Oddy, turning and powersliding to bring a beam broadside to bear on your enemy as you pop a bunch of powers.
Fast and the Furious: Trek Edition
What I am saying is that powersliding still is amusing to me.
Cruisers for the win - Escorts and carriers = squishy, science vessels (with the right skills and consoles) would be a good second, but cruisers by far are the best ships in the game.
I have a science vice admiral with an Odyssey (sciense variant) cruiser. I die far less often than any other ship in every STF and team mission, I deal out more damage, and usually still have time to heal / buff my team-mates.
I usually have every enemy on the map chasing me, freeing up my team-mates for other tasks.
Escorts may do a lot of damage in the short term, but look at them funny, and they have to run away to heal.
I use turrets and quantum torpedoes, that way every energy weapon can fire into all arcs, I have 2 hull heal abilities (3 if you count worker bees), and 3 shield heal abilities. All but 1 of the 6 can be used either on myself or friends. Torpedo spread for creating agro, defeating mines, or slow projectiles - gravity well and scramble sensors to restrict enemy movement and bring them all in together where it is easy to damage multiple enemy at the same time, energy syphon and tractor beam to slow stragglers and reduce their effectiveness (and increase my own). Round it off with a tractor beam and rapid fire for the turrets = a nice addition to any team.
As for PVP - once you get out of the escort's front firing arc, they're toast, and they can't get through the shields of a cruiser fast enough to prevent me from getting out of their front arc.
Cruisers rock!
Cruisers take skill. They are not for everyone. Same as the other classes. They take skill. But you need to have skill in that profession . . . no I am NOT talking skill points or tree here . . . I am talking about the human condition . . . the player behind the keyboard's skill.
I have played and have experience in all three classes. After months of gameplay i can say this. I suck as a SCi in space. Does that mean science ships suck? NOPE! It just means I don;t play well as a SCI in space while other players kick *** at it. However on the ground SCi is my strongest class. In space TAC is my strongest class followed VERY closely by cruisers. In fact I'd say I play them evenly well.
On the ground I do okay in all the classes, but am weakest as a Tac. That does NOT mean Tac's suck. It just means I have not mastered that class ont he ground yet.
So for those posting that "x-ship" or "x-class" in this game sucks, you need to redo your thinking. just because YOU suck at playing that class (and you DO suck at it if you are making such a complaint), then that is just you, and the item in game doesn;t suck at all. Want proof? Go chalange anyone in the same level/class/ship as you and watch peacefully as they wipe the floor with you, playing the exact same ship you claim is useless.
Goodnight, everyone
I don't think anything in this game is quite as satisfying as powersliding "into" ESD in a cruiser. CHECK OUT MY INERTIA IN SPACE.
cruiser + engeneer should be hell of a tank class something that you have to spend 10 minutes with 4 teamates to blast just once !
Well STO is a space arcade game oriented to blowing things and warring ... federation is suppose to never kill a living thing even if that japertize their crew and get them killed in return ?
Well who cares about some minor details ....
I'm not sure how you're running your cruisers bro but if two torps (to what, full shields?) is gibbing you, you might need to take a second look.
well face a bird of prey in PVP you will see that you will last not even the time to use your engering team III skill ...
ok maybe it was too excessive reducing it to 2 topedos blast but ... not that much ...
And yeah there is alway better players that is why the RA kling vs fed pvp are empty isn't it ?
:rolleyes:
Sounds like more of a noobsauce problem than a carrier problem.
In an ideal Star Trek game the cruisers would be Queens of the battlefield with all other ships supporting them in that role. There would be light, medium, and heavy hulls, each capable of mounting a limited amount of equipment and their maneuverability based off their mass. The role and abilities of the would depend on what equipment you had mounted rather than what class of ship you had and what your crew consisted of, but the effectiveness of the equipment would be based off your crew.
Heavies (Galaxy Class) would be tough with the most powerful weapons, but clumsy and unable to target fast moving ships, lights (Defiant Class) would be fast and able to hit important secondary targets (take out weapon emplacements, destroy fighter support, capture points quickly, maybe even shoot down incoming plasma torpedo's), they could also team up in packs to harass larger targets, strike specific hard points on heavies etc. Mediums would be in between (Intrepid) their flexibility would be their greatest asset.
Tiers would allow you to get better ships that mount better quality tech to make them more efficient at their job. But a low tier Heavy would still be a tough target for a more advanced medium.
Starship customization would be more like Mechwarrior/Battletech than what we have now.
The problem with all of this is that it no longer fits in an MMO structure and it wouldn't work well unless every PVE misson was a team based thing (which personally I would love but others would hate).
Until then, I suggest you get over being yelled at by escort pilots for not tanking or healing them, or seeing that lone grav well I aggro'ing everything in sight over your threat control skill. :frown:
Oh, I get over getting yelled at really quickly. Especially if they throw obscenities in their yelling. In fact, I never hear from that person ever again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
You could yell back and heckle thier inability to kill foes.
"Why is the Cube still in our viewport??"
"Why fires the guns on your ship? The Pakled?"
R.I.P
I really should just put "UR MOM" and "NO U" on macros. Which would also be useful in "ur countrrie sux" conversations in DS9.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Maybe you should only get one life in an STF? If you die you get booted, no rewards, see you in an hour to try again. If that was the case then flying an escort would be much more of a challenge and having a diverse fleet that takes care of each other would be essential. Too much imbalance and the team fails. Maybe the difficulty would need to be adjusted in STF's too if we had a one life restriction?
I've been playing Global Agenda recently and I've come to appreciate how important team balance is in that game. You literally need one of each class on a raid, if you don't have balance you're pretty much guaranteed to fail. I'd love to see that kind of mechanic in this game too.
So tbh, I think the weak science powers has forced this discussion into a cruisers vs. escorts mentality, as no one thinks of a science vessel as a key part of the balance: it's just, "why isn't that cruiser tanking the cube and healing my glass-cannon?!". I will agree with you whole-heartedly on Global Agenda: each class can deal damage and has its own way of avoiding damage. That's what this game isn't exploiting, which is defense. If defense was more apparent a bonus, you wouldn't need to worry about escorts tanking because the minute they stopped they got nuked due to a negative defense value multiplying damage done to them.
That way, you now have tanking by way of self-healing and maintaining aggro, or by flying around fast enough to avoid most of the damage. And if they would stop nerfing science skills and fix the damn tree for science powers, you could start to see some really interesting builds taking advantage of those odd ships with unique BOFF layouts. Sorry for the rant, but when people keep framing this debate as cruiser vs. escort, they kinda miss the entire point imho
I had the expectation of bigger ship = bigger weapons. (Offset by lower RoF and decrease in maneuverability).
Well, they got the decrease in maneuverability part right . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
lol
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R.I.P